Re: Making money from Java

docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
> In article <6KEof.125461$Gd6.74433@pd7tw3no>,
> James J. Gavan <jgavandeletethis@shaw.ca> wrote: 

Isn't that the new holy grail in AI? Apparently, IIRC, only humans and
dolphins have been assessed as being self-aware. Chimps and apes seem
to be only semi-self-aware.

In article <1134836305.609124.111650@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Alistair <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>docdwarf@panix.com wrote: 
>
>Isn't that the new holy grail in AI?

I have no idea, Mr Maclean... I barely know what the old grails were.

DD

On 17 Dec 2005 08:18:25 -0800, "Alistair"
<alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Isn't that the new holy grail in AI? Apparently, IIRC, only humans and
>dolphins have been assessed as being self-aware. Chimps and apes seem
>to be only semi-self-aware.

People say the silliest things in attempts to seem special.   I've
seen people claim that only people dream (obviously untrue), only
humans blush (can't tell - but I've seen embarrassed animals), that
only humans kill for fun, or kill their own kind.      Time and again,
observation and testing do not support these claims.

How do you define "self aware"?    Recognizing themselves in a mirror?
Recognizing their voice?  Recognizing their name?

How do you define "semi-self aware"?

Richard wrote: 
>
>
> That's because they are 'observing' while on their kness with their
> eyes closed.
>
> My cats are certainly self-aware and they dream.
>

and are easily embarrassed, if they are like mine.

Donald

I have a dog. This post is anecdotal evidence only.

"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
 news:rgldq1hffnom1v7gh3p934u5lakr7rtd75@
4ax.com...
>
> People say the silliest things in attempts to seem special.   I've
> seen people claim that only people dream (obviously untrue),

There seems to be evidence that my dog dreams. That is, while my dog is
(apparently) sleeping, she will move her limbs around and bark in her sleep.

> only
> humans blush (can't tell - but I've seen embarrassed animals),

As far as I can tell, my dog is shameless.

> that
> only humans kill for fun,

Depends on where you draw the line between "for fun" and "by instinct".
My dog seems to "enjoy" attacking squirrels, and it doesn't seem to be
because of a desire to eat them.

> or kill their own kind.

As far as I know, my dog hasn't killed another dog yet (though I do not
doubt your claim).

>
> How do you define "self aware"?    Recognizing themselves in a mirror?

I had a previous dog which would become very agitated when he saw his
reflection in a mirror, and would bark angrily at it for hours on end. My
current dog seems completely uninterested in her reflection.

> Recognizing their voice?  Recognizing their name?

My current dog doesn't seem to recognize her name; rather she recognizes
tones of voice. That is, the actual syllables I say don't seem to matter so
much as how I say them.

- Oliver

In article <pyhqf.754$km.514@edtnps89>,
Oliver Wong <owong@castortech.com> wrote:
>    I have a dog. This post is anecdotal evidence only.
>
>"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
> news:rgldq1hffnom1v7gh3p934u5lakr7rtd75@
4ax.com... 
>
>    There seems to be evidence that my dog dreams. That is, while my dog is
>(apparently) sleeping, she will move her limbs around and bark in her sleep.[/color
]

My dog's name is Killer - nobody has objected - and she will do something
while sleeping on my lap that I've heard folks from the southern part of
the United States of America refer to as 'chasing rabbits'.  It goes
something like... twitch... twitch twitch... wrf... brf wrf... kick kick
kick kick (in a running pattern)... brf... sssssiiiiggggghhhhhh.

Now Killer is a pug, the result of a couple of thousand years' worth of
selective breeding to be an indoor dog, a pampered lap dog, and nothing
more... which raises the question of 'what *is* she 'seeing'?'

[snip]
 
>
>    My current dog doesn't seem to recognize her name; rather she recognize
s
>tones of voice. That is, the actual syllables I say don't seem to matter so
>much as how I say them.

As nobody else - to the best of my knowledge - has represented it, either
before or since:

http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/0623-s...nf/farside3.gif

DD

"Oliver Wong" <owong@castortech.com> wrote in message
news:pyhqf.754$km.514@edtnps89...
 
>
>    As far as I know, my dog hasn't killed another dog yet (though I do not
> doubt your claim).

I do.  I have seen dogs killed by other dogs, sometimes even as
overexuberance in play, sometimes as a manifestation of pack dominance
behavior.

-Chuck Stevens

"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
 news:rgldq1hffnom1v7gh3p934u5lakr7rtd75@
4ax.com...

> I've seen people claim that .. only humans ... kill their own kind.
> Time and again,
> observation and testing do not support these claims.

True.  I have seen dogs killed by other dogs, sometimes through
overexuberance in play, sometimes through manifestation of pack-dominance
instincts.  The "motives" don't matter.

-Chuck Stevens

Ignore this one;  see the other message on the same topic. -CCS
"Chuck Stevens" <charles.stevens@unisys.com> wrote in message
news:docfjm$1qa9$1@si05.rsvl.unisys.com...
> "Oliver Wong" <owong@castortech.com> wrote in message
> news:pyhqf.754$km.514@edtnps89...
> 
>
> I do.  I have seen dogs killed by other dogs, sometimes even as
> overexuberance in play, sometimes as a manifestation of pack dominance
> behavior.
>
>    -Chuck Stevens
>
>

"Alistair" <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Oliver Wong wrote: 
>
>Both mink and foxes seem to go kill-crazy when faced with multiple
>targets.

It's known as "superpredation" and is caused by a glitch in the
instincts of animals that normally prey upon solitary targets. If
presented with a large number of immediately reachable prey animals,
eg a fox in a hencoop, the instinctual activity of "see prey, kill
it..." becomes overloaded and, to use a computer similie,  gets into a
loop.

--
Jeff.         Ironbridge,  Shrops,  U.K.
jeff@xjackfieldx.org (remove the x..x round jackfield for return address)
and don't bother with ralf4, it's a spamtrap and I never go there.. :)

... "There are few hours in life more agreeable
than the hour dedicated to the ceremony
known as afternoon tea.."

Henry James,  (1843 - 1916).