education (was Re: My dream job)

Pete Dashwood<dashwood@enternet.co.nz> 8/20/2005 4:52:28 PM >>>
>"Matt" <mcollins_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:hPINe.32763$Yx1.16749@tornado.tampabay.rr.com... 
your 
on 
>
>Yes, a degree can often hold you back...:-)
>
>Seriously, sorry you didn't get it. Try to keep your enthusiasm; it is
>always a major plus when job sing.

Now that brings up an interesting subject!  What level of education does
everyone (who wants to answer) have?

Personally, I have only 1.5 years of college.  No degree.  Probably would
have held me back in getting a programming job except that I already worked
for this company for five years prior to getting the programming position.
Hopefully I won't have to put it to the test (as in looking for another
job)!  :-)

Frank


---
Frank Swarbrick
Senior Developer/Analyst - Mainframe Applications
FirstBank Data Corporation - Lakewood, CO  USA

"Frank Swarbrick" <Frank.Swarbrick@efirstbank.com> wrote in message
news:3muvf4F18tciaU1@individual.net...
>
> Pete Dashwood<dashwood@enternet.co.nz> 8/20/2005 4:52:28 PM >>> 
> your 
> on 
>
> Now that brings up an interesting subject!  What level of education does
> everyone (who wants to answer) have?
>
> Personally, I have only 1.5 years of college.  No degree.  Probably would
> have held me back in getting a programming job except that I already
> worked
> for this company for five years prior to getting the programming position.
> Hopefully I won't have to put it to the test (as in looking for another
> job)!  :-)
>
> Frank
>

I can read and write (not joined up letters) and rattle a bit at 'rithmetic,
but my cousin says she won't marry me if'n I gets too uppity...:-)

Seriously, I was in the Sky Tower casino in Auckland this afternoon (I had
to go to Auckland on business, and had an hour and a half to kill)  playing
blackjack with a number of Asian gentlemen, and I kid you not, one of them
was counting the dealer's hand on his fingers. As each card was laid he
would tap the fingers of his left hand on the table, corresponding to the
number of pips. If it was a 10 or a picture he tapped his thumb twice. I was
fascinated. I think he may have been used to an abacus and the finger
tapping was a residue of this. He reserved his right hand to signal the
dealer whether to hit him, etc.  He was still there when I left, so whatever
he was doing, it worked for him.:-)

The point is: formal learning is fine (any kind of learning is fine...), but
never underestimate human ingenuity when a motivated person needs to solve a
problem...

Pete.
>
> ---
> Frank Swarbrick
> Senior Developer/Analyst - Mainframe Applications
> FirstBank Data Corporation - Lakewood, CO  USA
>

In article <3muvf4F18tciaU1@individual.net>,
Frank Swarbrick <Frank.Swarbrick@efirstbank.com> wrote:
>Pete Dashwood<dashwood@enternet.co.nz> 8/20/2005 4:52:28 PM >>> 
>
>Now that brings up an interesting subject!  What level of education does
>everyone (who wants to answer) have?
>
>Personally, I have only 1.5 years of college.

Eh?  With all due respect, Mr Swarbrick, the number of years of
college/university one has indicates - at least to me - nothing more
than... the number of years of college/university one has.  Education
might be seen as another matter, entire.  I've known janitors who were
well-read, insightful people and I've known corner-office PhD-holders who
had a wallful of paper and seemingly little else.

>No degree.

Not even a Fahrenheit?  Such a chilly life!

DD

"Frank Swarbrick" <Frank.Swarbrick@efirstbank.com> wrote in message
news:3muvf4F18tciaU1@individual.net...
> Now that brings up an interesting subject!  What level of education does
> everyone (who wants to answer) have?

Bachelor's degree in computer science here. Knew from a young age I
wanted to be a programmer (though back then I had wanted to program video
games, not "language analysis tools"), and a "BS in CS" was the typical
route to it. Unfortunately, according to my local newspapers and the job
sites I frequented anyway, most companies want not only a degree, but
several years (3, 5, 7, sometimes even 20 years) of experience in various
fields.

I got lucky in that the company I'm working for now posted a internship
offer at my university sing a rather esoteric and seemingly unrelated set
of skill requirements (XML, Java, compiler theory, compiler compilers,
DFA/NFAs, experience with open source development, etc.) of which
coincidentally I had almost all of them.

The skillset was rare enough, I found out later, that only two
candidates other than I had made it to the interview stage, and I guess I
just lucked out again and got chosen.

- Oliver

In article <3muvf4F18tciaU1@individual.net>, "Frank Swarbrick" <Frank.Swarbrick@efirstbank.
com> writes:
>
> Now that brings up an interesting subject!  What level of education does
> everyone (who wants to answer) have?

Bachelor of Science in Computer Science (Northeastern, 1991)
Bachelor of Science in English (Northeastern, 1991)
ABD in English (Miami University)

("ABD" means I've completed all the requirements for the PhD except
defending my dissertation.  I may yet do so, as the damn thing's
nearly finished anyway.)

> Personally, I have only 1.5 years of college.  No degree.  Probably would
> have held me back in getting a programming job except that I already worke
d
> for this company for five years prior to getting the programming position.

I've worked with good programmers who held degrees in various
subjects (mathematics, astrophysics, architecture) as well as some
without college degrees.  I do believe that there are many program-
ming tasks in which some knowledge of computer science, theory of
software development, or other academic topics is useful, and a
degree program is one way to gain that knowledge.  However, there are
other ways to gain it, and there are programming tasks where it's not
especially relevant.

Personally, I'm glad I earned my degrees, and I may go back for more
someday.  But I spent a decade in classrooms as much because I enjoy
academics as for any benefit I thought it would provide in the job
market or in my work.

As it happens, I do owe my first professional programming job to my
college efforts - but when I got it I had only been in college a year
and a half.  It was a cooperative ed position with IBM.

The jobs I've held since then I would probably have even without my
CS degree.  After IBM I worked for a software firm my father started,
which was eventually acquired (more or less) by Micro Focus.

--
Michael Wojcik                  michael.wojcik@microfocus.com

Americans have five divantages which you should take into account
before giving us too hard a time:
- We're landlocked
- We're monolingual
- We have poor math and geography skills        -- Lucas MacBride

In article <ZRHOe.34443$Oy2.17473@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
jce <defaultuser@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Frank Swarbrick" <Frank.Swarbrick@efirstbank.com> wrote in message
>news:3muvf4F18tciaU1@individual.net...

[snip]
 
>
>Unfortunately, my level of education is always short of where I want it to
>be.

Pfoo... what good are the desires of one so under-educated?

('Well, I'm certainly not 'technical' but I don't understand why this is
so hard when all ya gotta do is...' 'You'll understand that when you get
'technical', feel free to give me a holler then.')

('I do not know that I do not know.' - Wittgenstein)

DD

On 23-Aug-2005, "jce" <defaultuser@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
>
> Unfortunately, my level of education is always short of where I want it to
> be.

Occasionally, my education in the school of hard knocks is further than I wa
nted
it to be.

<docdwarf@panix.com> 8/23/2005 5:52:11 AM >>>
>In article <3muvf4F18tciaU1@individual.net>,
>Frank Swarbrick <Frank.Swarbrick@efirstbank.com> wrote: 
your 
on 
>
>Eh?  With all due respect, Mr Swarbrick, the number of years of
>college/university one has indicates - at least to me - nothing more
>than... the number of years of college/university one has.  Education
>might be seen as another matter, entire.  I've known janitors who were
>well-read, insightful people and I've known corner-office PhD-holders who
>had a wallful of paper and seemingly little else.

What makes you think I disagree with you?  Even though I only attended
college (University) for 1.5 school years, I taught myself C, C++, COBOL and
Java just by reading and doing.  I'm sure that's the case for others as
well.  In fact, my point is the fact that I don't have a degree has little
bearing on my programming ability.  I would say, with all due modesty, that
I am the second best programmer in my shop (well, on the mainframe
programming side...I don't know the talents of the distributed apps
developers well enough to compare myself to them).

Which is not to say that "higher education" is not useful.  It certainly is.
Even the little I had has been of benefit, and I'm sure I would get
additional benefit even now if I chose to do so.  But the having or lacking
a degree does not in and of itself mean one is a better or worse
programmer.

Frank


---
Frank Swarbrick
Senior Developer/Analyst - Mainframe Applications
FirstBank Data Corporation - Lakewood, CO  USA

In article <3n16trF18bk01U1@individual.net>,
Frank Swarbrick <Frank.Swarbrick@efirstbank.com> wrote:
><docdwarf@panix.com> 8/23/2005 5:52:11 AM >>> 

[snip]
 

[snip]

>What makes you think I disagree with you?

I don't recall saying anything about disagreement, Mr Swarbrick... just
that education might be seen as another matter, entire, separate from the
schooling one has.

DD

Frank Swarbrick wrote:
>
> Now that brings up an interesting subject!  What level of education does
> everyone (who wants to answer) have?

Between 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 years of college, depending on how the college
puts all my different credits together.  Still no degree, though I'm
working toward it.


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