A JC teaching IBM skills

Hi you all,

I need to make some educational decisions soon, as I'm 31 now and the
years are starting to go by quick! I want to program/operate the big
computers, it's been a dream of mine forever. A got my AA degree, and I
was going to go for a Computer Science degree at the University of South
Florida. But then I checked out Hillsborough Community College's website
to see if they had any certifications that could get me employed in IT
quicker. Then I noticed their AAS degree in Computer Programming:
http://www.hccfl.edu/Student/catalo...9E5.
pdf
(scroll down to Computer Programming)
As you can see, their offering a lot of AS400, RPG, and COBOL courses,
and I've always wanted to learn those skills. They don't offer any of
that stuff at USF.

What do you all think of that program? If I did it, I'd have to put my
bachelers degree on hold. That's fine if I'm able to get employed. But
if I still can't get a job, now I've wasted at least a year, and a lot
of money. I would have been better off just going for the Computer
Science degree. Do you see the delemma?

Matt

In article <6C2je.51029$IO.36939@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
Matt  <mcollins_fl@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi you all,
>
>I need to make some educational decisions soon, as I'm 31 now and the
>years are starting to go by quick!

Don't worry, they go by more slowly as one gets even older...

... and I am the King of England.

[snip]

>Then I noticed their AAS degree in Computer Programming:
>http://www.hccfl.edu/Student/catalo...9E5
.pdf
>(scroll down to Computer Programming)
>As you can see, their offering a lot of AS400, RPG, and COBOL courses,
>and I've always wanted to learn those skills.

... and DOS, too!

>They don't offer any of
>that stuff at USF.
>
>What do you all think of that program? If I did it, I'd have to put my
>bachelers degree on hold. That's fine if I'm able to get employed. But
>if I still can't get a job, now I've wasted at least a year, and a lot
>of money. I would have been better off just going for the Computer
>Science degree. Do you see the delemma?

Getting education is, usually, good... getting education while being able
to pay the rent is, usually, better.  The course you indicate seems more
oriented towards Unix and AS/400 than it does for the Really Big Iron.

That being said... without knowing about your course load I'd say that, in
general, it is better to get the higher-level degree first.  Rightly or
wrongly many organisations have a degree requirement for getting a job...
there was a fellow I knew, years ago, who got a slot as a consultant
slinging COBOL for an international bank; after about six months he began
looking into going full-time and they told him 'Sorry, no go; even though
you're 52 years old with 25 years of programming experience we don't hire
people without a Bachelor's degree.'

So... if it is a given that having a degree will make you eligible for a
greater number of jobs and being eligible for a greater number of jobs
increases your chances of landing *a* job then getting the degree first
should increase your ability to get education *and* pay rent.  Once you
have a job - be it humping code, hanging tapes or sweeping the floor - the
next step is improving your skill-set.  With any luck your employer will
offer some manner of tuition rebate... but if not one pays for the
night-courses on one's own.

My own experience: I studied what I enjoyed at a weird, little school and
wound up with a BA in Liberal Arts.  Nobody was hiring Corporate
Philosophers that year so I got a job in a warehouse and took a series of
night-courses in COBOL, Assembley language and more COBOL... turned out
that I enjoyed that (at least the COBOL part) almost as much as
translating Heraclitean fragments; I got to live up to my own preaching of
'go to college to learn something you like learning about and then go to a
technical school to learn something with which to make a living'.

DD

I just wanted to endorse what the Doc has said here.

This is a wise and useful post.

Good luck with your career and your life!

Pete.

Top Post, no more below.
<docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:d6if19$8pk$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <6C2je.51029$IO.36939@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
> Matt  <mcollins_fl@yahoo.com> wrote: 
>
> Don't worry, they go by more slowly as one gets even older...
>
> ... and I am the King of England.
>
> [snip]
> 
>
>http://www.hccfl.edu/Student/catalo...9466888EEABEF26
DF59E5.pdf 
>
> ... and DOS, too!
> 
>
> Getting education is, usually, good... getting education while being able
> to pay the rent is, usually, better.  The course you indicate seems more
> oriented towards Unix and AS/400 than it does for the Really Big Iron.
>
> That being said... without knowing about your course load I'd say that, in
> general, it is better to get the higher-level degree first.  Rightly or
> wrongly many organisations have a degree requirement for getting a job...
> there was a fellow I knew, years ago, who got a slot as a consultant
> slinging COBOL for an international bank; after about six months he began
> looking into going full-time and they told him 'Sorry, no go; even though
> you're 52 years old with 25 years of programming experience we don't hire
> people without a Bachelor's degree.'
>
> So... if it is a given that having a degree will make you eligible for a
> greater number of jobs and being eligible for a greater number of jobs
> increases your chances of landing *a* job then getting the degree first
> should increase your ability to get education *and* pay rent.  Once you
> have a job - be it humping code, hanging tapes or sweeping the floor - the
> next step is improving your skill-set.  With any luck your employer will
> offer some manner of tuition rebate... but if not one pays for the
> night-courses on one's own.
>
> My own experience: I studied what I enjoyed at a weird, little school and
> wound up with a BA in Liberal Arts.  Nobody was hiring Corporate
> Philosophers that year so I got a job in a warehouse and took a series of
> night-courses in COBOL, Assembley language and more COBOL... turned out
> that I enjoyed that (at least the COBOL part) almost as much as
> translating Heraclitean fragments; I got to live up to my own preaching of
> 'go to college to learn something you like learning about and then go to a
> technical school to learn something with which to make a living'.
>
> DD
>
>

I'm getting similar advise from other newsgroups too. I'm just going to
stay focused on the comp science degree then, calc I and physics this fall.

Matt

docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
> In article <6C2je.51029$IO.36939@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
> Matt  <mcollins_fl@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>
>
> Don't worry, they go by more slowly as one gets even older...
>
> ... and I am the King of England.
>
> [snip]
>
> 
>
>
> ... and DOS, too!
>
> 
>
>
> Getting education is, usually, good... getting education while being able
> to pay the rent is, usually, better.  The course you indicate seems more
> oriented towards Unix and AS/400 than it does for the Really Big Iron.
>
> That being said... without knowing about your course load I'd say that, in
> general, it is better to get the higher-level degree first.  Rightly or
> wrongly many organisations have a degree requirement for getting a job...
> there was a fellow I knew, years ago, who got a slot as a consultant
> slinging COBOL for an international bank; after about six months he began
> looking into going full-time and they told him 'Sorry, no go; even though
> you're 52 years old with 25 years of programming experience we don't hire
> people without a Bachelor's degree.'
>
> So... if it is a given that having a degree will make you eligible for a
> greater number of jobs and being eligible for a greater number of jobs
> increases your chances of landing *a* job then getting the degree first
> should increase your ability to get education *and* pay rent.  Once you
> have a job - be it humping code, hanging tapes or sweeping the floor - the
> next step is improving your skill-set.  With any luck your employer will
> offer some manner of tuition rebate... but if not one pays for the
> night-courses on one's own.
>
> My own experience: I studied what I enjoyed at a weird, little school and
> wound up with a BA in Liberal Arts.  Nobody was hiring Corporate
> Philosophers that year so I got a job in a warehouse and took a series of
> night-courses in COBOL, Assembley language and more COBOL... turned out
> that I enjoyed that (at least the COBOL part) almost as much as
> translating Heraclitean fragments; I got to live up to my own preaching of
> 'go to college to learn something you like learning about and then go to a
> technical school to learn something with which to make a living'.
>
> DD
>

<docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:d6if19$8pk$1@panix5.panix.com...
[snip]
> My own experience: I studied what I enjoyed at a weird, little school and
> wound up with a BA in Liberal Arts.  Nobody was hiring Corporate
> Philosophers that year so I got a job in a warehouse and took a series of
> night-courses in COBOL, Assembley language and more COBOL... turned out
> that I enjoyed that (at least the COBOL part) almost as much as
> translating Heraclitean fragments; I got to live up to my own preaching of
> 'go to college to learn something you like learning about and then go to a
> technical school to learn something with which to make a living'.

H'm!

< http://mainejobs.mainetoday.com/new...08college.shtml >

---begin quote
IBM returned to campus several times to recruit liberal arts
majors, and took its pick from a range of majors, such as
political science and biology. One history major hired by
IBM last year is working on ways to make the B-1 bomber
more fuel-efficient.

He said IBM's consulting division is hiring liberal arts
graduates because they have been trained to work under
a deadline, digest large amounts of information, analyze it
and present results.

"It is the essence of consulting," he said.
---end quote

"Rick Smith" <ricksmith@mfi.net> wrote:

>
><docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:d6if19$8pk$1@panix5.panix.com...
>[snip] 
>
>H'm!
>
>< http://mainejobs.mainetoday.com/new...08college.shtml >
>
>---begin quote
>IBM returned to campus several times to recruit liberal arts
>majors, and took its pick from a range of majors, such as
>political science and biology. One history major hired by
>IBM last year is working on ways to make the B-1 bomber
>more fuel-efficient.
>
>He said IBM's consulting division is hiring liberal arts
>graduates because they have been trained to work under
>a deadline, digest large amounts of information, analyze it
>and present results.
>
>"It is the essence of consulting," he said.
>---end quote

Yeah..  Translates as "Charge megabucks for amateurs in sharp suits"..
Not that I'm cynical or anything..  :-)

--
Jeff.         Ironbridge,  Shrops,  U.K.
jeff@xjackfieldx.org (remove the x..x round jackfield for return address)
and don't bother with ralf4, it's a spamtrap and I never go there.. :)

... "There are few hours in life more agreeable
than the hour dedicated to the ceremony
known as afternoon tea.."

Henry James,  (1843 - 1916).

In article <118rdafr5fqqn7e@corp.supernews.com>,
Rick Smith <ricksmith@mfi.net> wrote:
>
><docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:d6if19$8pk$1@panix5.panix.com...
>[snip] 

[snip - I interrupt myself, I know]

>H'm!
>
>< http://mainejobs.mainetoday.com/new...08college.shtml >
>
>---begin quote
>IBM returned to campus several times to recruit liberal arts
>majors, and took its pick from a range of majors, such as
>political science and biology. One history major hired by
>IBM last year is working on ways to make the B-1 bomber
>more fuel-efficient.
>
>He said IBM's consulting division is hiring liberal arts
>graduates because they have been trained to work under
>a deadline, digest large amounts of information, analyze it
>and present results.
>
>"It is the essence of consulting," he said.
>---end quote

This sort of thing shows up every once in a while... companies cry
'Specialists are too narrow, we need some generalists!'.  Shortly after
graduated the Wall Street Journal ran an article about such a program and
I wrote a Letter to the Editor along the lines of 'I read your article
about companies looking to hire generalists.  I have recently graduated
with a BA in Liberal Arts; if you are interested in learning how companies
*really* respond to a generalist you might wish to contact me and take a
look at my file of response-letters.'

Never heard a word from them... perhaps they didn't like my stationery.

DD

Rick Smith wrote:
>
> H'm!
>
> < http://mainejobs.mainetoday.com/new...08college.shtml >
>
> ---begin quote
> IBM returned to campus several times to recruit liberal arts
> majors, and took its pick from a range of majors, such as
> political science and biology. One history major hired by
> IBM last year is working on ways to make the B-1 bomber
> more fuel-efficient.

Translation: LA majors work cheap.

On a restroom wall:

"If you're a history major, this is the only job you'll ever have."

Trust me, the dude above wasn't hired because he was a history major.

"Rick Smith" <ricksmith@mfi.net> wrote:

>
><docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:d6if19$8pk$1@panix5.panix.com...
>[snip] 
>
>H'm!
>
>< http://mainejobs.mainetoday.com/new...08college.shtml >
>
>---begin quote
>IBM returned to campus several times to recruit liberal arts
>majors, and took its pick from a range of majors, such as
>political science and biology. One history major hired by
>IBM last year is working on ways to make the B-1 bomber
>more fuel-efficient.
>
>He said IBM's consulting division is hiring liberal arts
>graduates because they have been trained to work under
>a deadline, digest large amounts of information, analyze it
>and present results.
>
>"It is the essence of consulting," he said.
>---end quote

Yeah..  Translates as "Charge megabucks for amateurs in sharp suits"..
Not that I'm cynical or anything..  :-)

--
Jeff.         Ironbridge,  Shrops,  U.K.
jeff@xjackfieldx.org (remove the x..x round jackfield for return address)
and don't bother with ralf4, it's a spamtrap and I never go there.. :)

... "There are few hours in life more agreeable
than the hour dedicated to the ceremony
known as afternoon tea.."

Henry James,  (1843 - 1916).

"HeyBub" (heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com) writes:
>
> Translation: LA majors work cheap.
>
> On a restroom wall:
>
> "If you're a history major, this is the only job you'll ever have."
>
> Trust me, the dude above wasn't hired because he was a history major.

My son started out University in the Humanities because he is interested in
History, particularly Gr and Roman Studies. Last term he aced both the
language courses he took, Latin and motorola assembler. The later course
was taught by the Dean of Engineering, who has an interest in computer
architecture.

He is switching his major to Engineering/Comp Sci with a 2nd major in
history. Administratively that was simpler and he thought that it might
be difficult to explain to employers why a History major was looking for
IT jobs after graduation.

He also found it easier to ace math and computing courses than courses where
you had to clue into the prof's biases and cater to them in your essays.

C P Snow noted that scientific technical intellectuals are more likely to
have interest in literature than the humanities than vice versa.