Editors

I was thinking about an earlier thread.   Most of my source code editing is 
done
with a mainframe editor.   On IBM, that's usually TSO/SPF.   I was wondering
 why
I like it better than some of my powerful PC editors.

I think it's because mainframe source code is on fixed length files.   Its
editors are designed around this feature and make column and row type comman
ds
easy.    PC editors are designed around variable length files.   What's easy
 and
what's hard depend on the environment.

> and make column and row type commands easy.

> PC editors are designed around variable length files.

_Some_ PC editors are designed around ..., _some_ make column and row
type commands easy.

> What's easy and what's hard depend on the environment.

No. What is easy and what is hard depends mostly on what you are used
to.  I would probably find TSO/SPF frustratingly hard to use, error
prone and clunky.  Whereas my 'fingers do the thinking' when I use the
editors my brain has been trained to use.

"Richard" <riplin@Azonic.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1112558253.560658.96240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... 
> 
>
> _Some_ PC editors are designed around ..., _some_ make column and row
> type commands easy.
Do you have an example of one that does excellent vertical blocking cut and
pastes that runs on Windows XP that is not overly expensive ?   This is not
a DocDwarf *show* me evidence question, it's a, "I really want to know"
question.

 
>
> No. What is easy and what is hard depends mostly on what you are used
> to.  I would probably find TSO/SPF frustratingly hard to use, error
> prone and clunky.  Whereas my 'fingers do the thinking' when I use the
> editors my brain has been trained to use.
I always prefer my brain to do the thinking my fingers do the typing...

It's not just what is easy - I use different editors for different languages
based solely on the environment I am in.
I use ISPF for COBOL because I find I am more often doing COBOL type
functions - line copies, overlays (I do this a lot because I tend to like to
comment whole sections).

When I use C++, C# I used MS Visual Studio because it is integrated into a
very nicely organized IDE.  It supports comments much easier with a "comment
selection"

I use Websphere / Eclipse for Java because I am used to the view structure.

In the latter two cases the integrated environment is more important than
the editor.  I have SlickEdit but I have found that I don't use it (maybe
that _is_ the answer to my question above).  My COBOL is also limited to
z/OS.  Writing java code using ISPF is a crime.

A big thing for me is autocomplete - I am more than happy without auto
complete for COBOL and PL/I because I am used to the limited language
scope - however, I would never even _consider_ an editor for Java without
this function.

My biggest criticism of TSO ISPF is more based on the emulators......how
many occasions will I use someone elses machine and hit <END> and it deletes
to the end of the line and not just move to it......When did someone decide
that <END> means <DELETE TO THE END>?!?

JCE

> excellent vertical blocking cut and pastes that runs on Windows XP
that is not overly expensive ?

Well I like TSE - The Semware Editor, www.semware.com.  A testdrive is
available.

It can be set to do keymacros so that, eg, F9+P -> PERFORM and so on
for most keywords.

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:46:58 GMT, "jce" <defaultuser@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>"Richard" <riplin@Azonic.co.nz> wrote in message
>news:1112558253.560658.96240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... 
>Do you have an example of one that does excellent vertical blocking cut and
>pastes that runs on Windows XP that is not overly expensive ?   This is not
>a DocDwarf *show* me evidence question, it's a, "I really want to know"
>question.
Probably not an option due to the lack of other things but gvim does
do vertical blocks up to a certain point.





Frederico Fonseca
ema il: frederico_fonseca at syssoft-int.com

Do any of the IBM mainframe "folks" have a screen shot of an ISPF screen wit
h
HILITE COBOL
turned on - to show others that one CAN have "language sensitive" coloring i
n a
"mainframe" editor?  I looked at the ISPF manuals online and couldn't find a
ny
"pictures" of what this looks like (either with a 3270 terminal or PC emulat
or).

--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
"Richard Steiner" <rsteiner@visi.com> wrote in message
news:IEeVCpHpv65T092yn@visi.com...
> Here in comp.lang.cobol,
> "Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> spake unto us, saying:
> 
>
> Well, besides cut and paste, terminal emulators generally
>
> - allow for terminal windows of arbitrary size (we were limited to
>   80-column and 132-column modes on the last Unisys terminal I used
>   [SVT_1126]) while I have no such limit with my current emulator),
>
> - allow you to have many more terminal windows (not just limited to
>   two PIDS or one in 132-column mode like the SVT was),
>
> - allow you to customize the colors used to display various UTS field
>   attributes like protected, low-intensity, alpha-only, and so on, and
>
> - provide a certain amount of macro-key and scripting capability.
>
> That applies to the Unisys world (UTS emulation) and to the A-series
> world (T27 emulation), anyway.  I can only assume emulators like Rumba
> have similar capabilities (I used MacIrma for the Mac and Rumba for
> Windows for many years, but I only used it to read PROFS/VM and do
> various things in TSO like Changeman and such, not to do real work, so
> I had little incentive to be creative).
>
> You might have noticed that the UEDIT screenshot I posted demonstrates
> context-sensitive code syntax highlighting using various colors, and
> it's slowly getting more sophisticated in that regard as I modify it.
>
> On a real UTS terminal, that would look like crap because I'm doing the
> syntax highlighting by scattering dozens of Uniscope FCCs like Blinking-
> Field and Low-Intensity-Blinking across the screen to differentiate the
> various types of characters.  Your eyes would probably roll back into
> your head if you viewed that mess on a real Uniscope.  :-)
>
> Wsing a PC-based UTS emulator I can make blinking text appear red on
> the terminal display and Low-Intensity Blinking text appear cyan, which
> is far more aesthetically pleasing than two shades of blinking green,
> and probably a lot less prone to possibly inducing seizures.
>
> Since UTS20/UTS40 terminals don't have real colors like the UTS60 does,
> that's the only way I've found to present such colors on the screen in
> a meaningful way.  It seems to work quite well, though.
> 
>
> See above.  There can be a big difference once you learn what a given
> terminal emulator is capable of.
>
> --
> -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
>  OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heave
n!
>       WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
>                   The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Here in comp.lang.cobol,
"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> spake unto us, saying:

>Do any of the IBM mainframe "folks" have a screen shot of an ISPF
>screen with
>  HILITE COBOL
>turned on - to show others that one CAN have "language sensitive"
>coloring in a "mainframe" editor?

It obviously can be done, even on a mono screen with low/normal/high
intensity settings such highlighting would be useful.

I plan on adding UTS60 color support to my UEDIT variant in time; I've
only been working on it for a few months now, so I've not gotten that
far yet, and it isn't what I'm being paid to do so it's a spare time
thing.

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Hi all!

For windows I'm using "Multi Edit 9.0" and i'm 100% satisfied by his
performance. You can do almost every thing with the source code
including macros definitions.

For linux I'm using "gvim" that is a little more difficult to learn and
use, but you can do miracles, too! :)

Kind Regards,
Tiberiu Gociu.

UltraEdit   www.ultraedit.com

..    On  04.04.05
wrote  defaultuser@hotmail.com (jce)
on  /COMP/LANG/COBOL
in  m014e.16814$vd.2718@tornado.tampabay.rr.com
about  Re: Editors

 
d> Do you have an example of one that does excellent vertical blocking
d> cut and pastes that runs on Windows XP that is not overly expensive ?

I am a satisfied user of Ultraedit: http://www.ultraedit.com

You have to register after a 45 day trial period (39.95 USD).

But in the cases where I have to write a COBOL program, I do use
the built-in editor of the Fujitsu IDE; it is not so nice, but ....


Yours,
Lüko Willms                                     http://www.willms-edv.de
/--------- L.WILLMS@jpberlin.de -- Alle Rechte vorbehalten --

Der Verleger hat ihn in effigie vor sein Werk aufhängen lassen. -G.C.Lichten
berg