Re[2]: [pear-webmaster] Re: Help with installing PEAR

||*()*||    [\..konnichi wa, ogenki desu ka, Greg../]

GB> I see - this is yet another coordination problem - are you talking about
GB> windows .zip files of php?  These are created independently on another
GB> machine, I unfortunately have not much time to research this or do any
GB> other serious coding for a short while, as my quartet is preparing to
GB> record the Brahms Clarinet Quintet as well as playing several important
GB> concerts.  Soon, I will have more time, maybe even a few minutes this
GB> wend, we'll see.

I'm very glad you've found yourself. At least You are happy. =) If you
ask me, I've got only one problem - where to get 40$ this w to pay my
phone taxes and spend some 5$ in nearest fastfood to keep my mind
alive somehow, so I've got no work, no special problems with free time,
with girlfriend, almost nothing to lose, so I don't have any reasons why
not to do some coding and I don't have any interesting story about my
wend. Sorry. It is not that I'm not interested in you everyday life -
indeed - it was very interesting to know, that one of the most
involved coders here makes his living as a musician. =) To tell the
truth I can only dream of such work, which won't deny me from other
things I like. The only problem in this dialog is what I see that I can
solve this problem with packages faster or at least I want to figure
out how did that happened and what to do to prevent this happen again.

The answer I'd like to hear is - what do you need to do to solve that
problem and why can't I do that?
 
GB> Commercial support is "the client must be placated by people with no
GB> programming experience and lists of soothing phrases that always lead to
GB> the suggestion to re-install windows"

Try RedHat support. =) And don't use cheap third-party hosting. =)
Professional commercial support is well-organized structure, where your
opponent talks to you on the same language, so you need to introduce
yourself first and tell "people with no programming experience" to
redirect you to appropriate person. If you don't do that - you are an
"average customer" who often doesn't know what (s)he wants, what
happened and haven't seen anything with title "How To Ask Questions
The Smart Way".
 

GB> OK, I will only say this next part once, I promise.

GB> It's possible to have both.  Rather than throw up roadblocks and
GB> complain, provide proof that you are in favor of both community and
GB> quality.  All I have seen from you is that you are in favor of someone
GB> else doing the work for problems that you seem to be an expert on.  If
GB> you're an expert on a problem, then fix it and provide a patch.

Wrong. I wanted to fix problem myself to feel immediate positive feedback fr
om
my actions and move to next problem without waiting for smb. month or more
to receive his benediction. I don't care much about community as long as it
doesn't hamper PEAR quality, in which I'm interested in the first place.
To me it seems that people here make more talk than work in the sphere of my
interests and this "culture" produces a conflict where different approach
feels very hard to survive.

I've already submitted a couple of patches, but the way they've got into CVS
was very unpleasant in time and technical aspects. It is rather funny,
but I need one more day to merge my patched version with CVS one and some
more hours to test it.

GB> Communicate with people who have cvs commit access, and *CALMLY* explain
GB> why the patch works.

I can't. They don't read my messages. =/  How can I explain if they
don't ask questions and don't offer alternative solutions except
"don't do this". Also I have troubles with php.net email system -
haven't received any letter from bugsystem after XML-RPC was fixed,
though I left patch in most of the issues there.

GB> In addition, *LISTEN* to the responses.  Don't write off your fellow
GB> developers as evil or callous because we bristle when you procede to say
GB> our code is flawed and our work ethic is worse.
You just don't allow me to show the opposite. =) Nothing more. What
else can I do?

GB> When you join the open source community, it is a proud moment.  You are
GB> now saying "I am not a dribbling little baby who needs a
GB> 'the-client-must-be-placated-by-people-with-no-programming-experience-an
d-lists-of-soothing-phrases-that-always-lead-to-the-suggestion-to-re-install
-windows'
GB> person to tell me that I am OK and the program will be fixed for the low
GB> price of $99.95 to upgrade.  NO!  I have the programming skills and the
GB> people skills to provide a working patch, and to fix it when others see
GB> problems with my imperfect fix for their imperfect programs!"
Agreed. Almost - If I don't have people skills, but I have programming
skills, can evaluate code quality, respect others work and don't sell GPL co
de
in my closed products - I still don't deserve to be in OpenSource, right?

GB> That's the whole point - this is NOT your father's crap-ass support.
GB> No, you have the full power to take an hour or two away from the normal
GB> workings to find a fix and apply it.  In addition, you DON'T have to
GB> take 15 hours away to code around something that will never be fixed
GB> unless you shell out more cash.
Whom are speaking about?
You need proof of my work or what?

GB> As an example:

GB> Last year, I was pushing for a patch to the PEAR installer that would
GB> enable a new command called "revert."  This would have provided the
GB> option to quickly restore an older package version that works, replacing
GB> the existing non-functional newer version.  There was a lot of
GB> opposition, and I kept modifying, and modifying the patch.  Finally, it
GB> became obvious that it would never be accepted, even though it was
GB> tested, fully working, and pretty neat.

GB> Instead, I changed my tactics, and realized that the problem was in fact
GB> that people could release packages that break backwards compatibility
GB> with impunity.  So, I began the conversation to set the much-hated and
GB> much-loved BC standards.  What we came to is very different from my
GB> original idea, because I modified it based on what people said, yes,
GB> even some curmudgeonly comments that annoyed me.

GB> The fact is, when people make curmudgeonly comments, it's not always
GB> because they are curmudgeonly.  Sometimes it's because you say
GB> incredibly stupid things because you are human, and by you, I mean I,
GB> you, him, her all of us.

GB> I've since erased the fully working, beautifully wrought-out "pear
GB> revert" patch because it was unnecessary, and did not solve anything
GB> that community work could not do better.  How could I have known this at
GB> the time if the existing community did not insist that I was wrong?

GB> On the other hand, the patches I provided for --alldeps and
GB> --onlyreqdeps were very well thought-out, and sailed through with no
GB> opposition whatsoever, because everyone agreed they were important and
GB> useful.

GB> Don't blame the developer if your suggestions are half-baked.  Bake them
GB> more fully and you will find yourself an accepted member of the
GB> grown-ups club that is open source.

To tell the truth I don't accept this kind of attutude. "Code is
poetry" (c) WordPress. Poetry is an art like music, like painting,
like any other creative work. How can you tell musician how to compose
music? How can you tell poet what to write? If you made it OpenSource
- let your actions be proof of a concept. Some people just want to
tell opposite opinion to make sure you've taken into account all
possible variants where your work will not be useful, but this doesn't
mean there will be nobody who will benefit from it. Make it optional.
Any functionality is welcomed as long as it useful for smb. and
doesn't jam other (sometimes possible) features. I still think you
are convinced, that your patch isn't really useful and you don't bear
any ill, because it was you who weightened all pros and cons. You've
got experience, which you will use while planning new patch, but if it
you are not convinved - it is a conflict and in that case PEAR community
is a very fertile land for such conflicts. I can't see why it is good
then.

Art need freedom to evolve. Not rules. No patents.

--
(B)uilding, (A)ntenna, (S)pan and (E)arth
* terminal velocity - 54m/s, 305m *