Regarding a Python marketing debacle

My killfile usually keeps me blissfully unaware that I'm being flamed.  If I
find out, sometimes I'll read the Google archive, just to see what all the
fuss is about.  Rarely is it worth responding to, but in this case I make an
exception.

Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
http://pythonology.com/pipermail/ma...ber/005402.html

I think it is important to understand the roles Guido van Rossum and I were
playing in this spat.  Guido had just trashed the work of our best web
designer, Tim Parkin.  He did it in a destructive, nasty, dismissive way,
questioning Tim's professional abilities.  It's a pity that Tim has finally
taken down the mockup of the logo and website, as I've been showing it off
to people over the past year.  'Goodness' is in the eye of the beholder, and
various logos fulfil various goals better or worse.  But by any objective
standard, Tim was certainly capable of good eye candy.  Unless of course
you're Guido van Rossum and happen to fancy the current www.python.org logo.

Tim really took it on the ch.  As a consummate professional, I'm sure
he's mediated rather a few blathering XXXXXXX clients before.

I did not.  That act on Guido's part, plus deliberate provocations he'd been
throwing my way to get me to leave the list, led me to point out the very
obvious Dilbertism going on with the PSF.  *Many* of us shared this
sentiment.  We differed in whether we publically or privately expressed it,
how we expressed it, and whether we tried to keep any bridges intact.  But
nobody was able to get the PSF to approve a real marketing campaign.  1 year
later, 0 progress.  No website makeover, no logo.  Nada.  Zip.

Because, that's what happens when you shit all over the people who are
trying their best to do good work for you.  And by that I don't mean me, I
mean Tim.  When you do that to people, they pack up their bags and don't
come back for *years*.  Remember that, the next time you want to market
something in open source land.

If you want to edify yourself on what actually happened, it's all there.
Judge for yourself.  It'll be a long evening reading through all that stuff.
Rather much like reading the archive of the GNU Emacs vs. XEmacs split.  The
PSF marketing debacle doesn't have any historic import, but it shares a
similar tone.  Or maybe it doesn't... the nature of these conflicts could be
a paper unto itself.

I'm tempted to cross-post this to comp.lang.python, but I'll refrain.  It
would of course be striking a hornet's nest with a big fat stick.  (But can
you hit the Queen Bee on your 1st swing?)  Guido and the PSF would deserve
it, but I'm sure the groups in the newsgroup line would find it quite rude
of me.  I'm satisfied merely to add information to the picture Erik paints
of me.

And having spoken my peace, I won't be responding to this thread.  All that
remains is for people to read the archive.  Or, if you're smart, just give
benefit of the doubt and skip it.

--
Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

"We live in a world of very bright people building
crappy software with total shit for tools and process."
- Ed McKenzie

"Brandon J. Van Every" wrote:

> My killfile usually keeps me blissfully unaware that I'm being flamed.
> If I
> find out, sometimes I'll read the Google archive, just to see what all
> the
> fuss is about.  Rarely is it worth responding to, but in this case I
> make an
> exception.

That makes no sense at all.  If you have me killfiled, why are you going
out of your way to read my posts?

> I think it is important to understand the roles Guido van Rossum and I
> were
> playing in this spat.

You asserted yourself like you always do.  You injected yourself into a
forum where you're the newbie, demanded that people do things your way,
and people resisted, as well they should since you had no idea what you
were talking about.  You took credit for other peoples' work, had a
hissy fit when your "contributions" (consisting of simply ordering
people around [1]) were rebuffed, had your usual tantrum and then left.

This pattern has repeated itself over and over and over again.  Why is
it still a surprise to you when it happens?

> If you want to edify yourself on what actually happened, it's all
> there.
> Judge for yourself.

Indeed it is.

http://pythonology.com/pipermail/ma...ber/005434.html

> I'm tempted to cross-post this to comp.lang.python, but I'll refrain.

Well, good thing you're crossposting it to c.l.scheme and
c.l.functional, then!

.

1.  Unless you want to count your submission of a logo design which
consisted of a photograph of a stuffed animal and a white pasteboard
with "PYTHON" written on it.

--
__ Erik Max Francis && max@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Who shall stand guard to the guards themselves?
-- Juvenal