Odd question bout Prolog

Hi guys, I'm trying to do a report, but I'm having problems finding
information about Prolog.  Basically, what I'm struggling with is
finding negative aspects of Prolog:  limitations, restrictions, poor
features, etc.  I'm supposed to right about it's comparison with Lisp
for the purpose of AI applications, but again... I'm struggling.  If
anyone could offer any insight.. I'd appreciate tremendously.

On 18 Sep 2004 17:11:56 -0700, sap6210@rit.edu wrote:

>Hi guys, I'm trying to do a report, but I'm having problems finding
>information about Prolog.  Basically, what I'm struggling with is
>finding negative aspects of Prolog:  limitations, restrictions, poor
>features, etc.  I'm supposed to right about it's comparison with Lisp
>for the purpose of AI applications, but again... I'm struggling.  If
>anyone could offer any insight.. I'd appreciate tremendously.

...and good aspects of Lisp?...

A.L.

Well, the problem is there is SOOOO many websites about the pro/cons of
Lisp.  There are a good number of websites that praise the positivies
of Prolog, which is good, but I'm struggling to find negatives.  I was
just wondering if anyone had any ideas for bad things about it.

On 18 Sep 2004 20:48:30 -0700, sap6210@rit.edu wrote:

>Well, the problem is there is SOOOO many websites about the pro/cons of
>Lisp.  There are a good number of websites that praise the positivies
>of Prolog, which is good, but I'm struggling to find negatives.  I was
>just wondering if anyone had any ideas for bad things about it.

Maybe you should post this question on comp.lang.lisp. They will
find 1000 and one arguments why ANY language is worse than Lisp.
Prolog including. Actually, as I recall, there was already such
discussion in the past. Try to google the archive.

A.L.

okay, I'll try that (and I'll try to look).  I just wanted an opinion
from people who use it more.  What do you guys wish it could do, etc.
I don't know (personally) a SINGLE prolog programmer (I know small
amounts, not enough to make a major program at all)... it's ,
really.  I'll try there too, but if anyone could give me an opinion, or
even more places to look, I'd be glad to hear it! :)  Thanks!

Steve

On 18 Sep 2004 21:41:23 -0700, sap6210@rit.edu wrote:

>okay, I'll try that (and I'll try to look).  I just wanted an opinion
>from people who use it more.  What do you guys wish it could do, etc.
>I don't know (personally) a SINGLE prolog programmer (I know small
>amounts, not enough to make a major program at all)... it's ,
>really.  I'll try there too, but if anyone could give me an opinion, or
>even more places to look, I'd be glad to hear it! :)  Thanks!
>
>Steve

Then you know one. I am using Prolog in two large commercial
applications (transportation management and warehouse management). I
am using Prolog, because this is the best tool for planning,
scheduling and optimization. Prolog works for me better than any
other language. Therefore, don't expect that I will find
divantages and problems.

A.L.

Martha Stewart called it a Good Thing when Andrzej Lewandowski <alewando_tego_nie@oddpost_t
ego_tez_nie.com> wrote:
> On 18 Sep 2004 21:41:23 -0700, sap6210@rit.edu wrote:
> 
>
> Then you know one. I am using Prolog in two large commercial
> applications (transportation management and warehouse management). I
> am using Prolog, because this is the best tool for planning,
> scheduling and optimization. Prolog works for me better than any
> other language. Therefore, don't expect that I will find
> divantages and problems.

Ah, but what usually happens is that there are aspects that make a
language preferable for the task, that are sufficiently dominant to
bind your choice, despite there being some aspects that you might wish
were better.

The thing that often binds projects at work to Perl is the enormous
set of CPAN extensions.  The syntax is pretty ugly, but there was a
perfect module for doing [whatever].

One of the likely _demerits_ of Prolog is the absence of anything
similar to CPAN.  If you need a library for some moderately obscure
purpose, you probably _can't_ just download it.

One thing I find a challenge in Prolog is when I have to do things
that are of a "traditional iterative" nature where I'd normally just
request some sort of LOOP construct in other languages.  I find myself
fighting with Prolog at such moments.
--
output = reverse("gro.mca" "@" "enworbbc")
http://linuxfinances.info/info/languages.html
Smith's Test for Artificial Life:
When animal-rights activists and right-to-life protesters are marching
outside your laboratory, then you know you've definitely made progress
in your artificial life research.  -- Donald A. Smith

sap6210@rit.edu wrote in message news:<1095552716.820556.104140@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.co
m>...
> Hi guys, I'm trying to do a report, but I'm having problems finding
> information about Prolog.  Basically, what I'm struggling with is
> finding negative aspects of Prolog:  limitations, restrictions, poor
> features, etc.  I'm supposed to right about it's comparison with Lisp
> for the purpose of AI applications, but again... I'm struggling.  If
> anyone could offer any insight.. I'd appreciate tremendously.

I will not try to do a theoretically analysis of prolog, because I'm
not languages expert. In my opinion, and from a practical point of
view as prolog programmer in an enterprise environment:

- it is near than imposible to have a good prolog team of programmers:
thus, prolog is expensive in training.
- it is near than totally out of enterprise world: no enough
librarians, ...
- it has the tipically problems of non-imperative languages: it is
very dificult to do thinks that in a imperative language takes a few
minutes.
- it is a few outphased.

My conclusion, and my work: never do a project with only a single
language, combine modules in several ones. In particular, prolog is
perfect for the kernel, but not valid for the interfaces.

Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org> wrote in message news:<2r5g2gF16caorU1@uni-berlin.de>
..
> Martha Stewart called it a Good Thing when Andrzej Lewandowski <alewando_t
ego_nie@oddpost_tego_tez_nie.com> wrote: 
> One thing I find a challenge in Prolog is when I have to do things
> that are of a "traditional iterative" nature where I'd normally just
> request some sort of LOOP construct in other languages.  I find myself
> fighting with Prolog at such moments.

dowhile(Action, Condition) :-
\+ \+ call(Action),
whiledo(Condition, Action).

whiledo(Condition, Action) :-
call(Condition) ->
\+ \+ call(Action),
whiledo(Condition, Action)
;
true.

forto(First, Last, Call) :-
First =< Last ->
\+ \+ call(Call),
Next is First + 1,
forto(Next, Last, Call)
;
true.

forto(Count, First, Last, Call) :-
First =< Last ->
\+ \+ (Count = First, call(Call)),
Next is First + 1,
forto(Count, Next, Last, Call)
;
true.

fordownto(First, Last, Call) :-
First >= Last ->
\+ \+ call(Call),
Next is First - 1,
fordownto(Next, Last, Call)
;
true.

fordownto(Count, First, Last, Call) :-
First >= Last ->
\+ \+ (Count = First, call(Call)),
Next is First - 1,
fordownto(Count, Next, Last, Call)
;
true.

Enjoy :-) Btw, as a Prolog programmer, I've seldom needed any of the
above predicates...

Paulo

On 19 Sep 2004 13:32:00 GMT, Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org>
wrote:

>Ah, but what usually happens is that there are aspects that make a
>language preferable for the task, that are sufficiently dominant to
>bind your choice, despite there being some aspects that you might wish
>were better.
>
>The thing that often binds projects at work to Perl is the enormous
>set of CPAN extensions.  The syntax is pretty ugly, but there was a
>perfect module for doing [whatever].
>
>One of the likely _demerits_ of Prolog is the absence of anything
>similar to CPAN.  If you need a library for some moderately obscure
>purpose, you probably _can't_ just download it.
>

I wrote: "Prolog is good for optimization and planning" and not that
it is good as Universal Language To Do Everything. Prologs (especially
SICStus and ECLIPSE) have the libraries that are good for these
applications. In addition, if I want to interface Prolog with
something or interface somethingh with Prolog, there are pretty good
frameworks to do this. Actually, I call Prolog from non-Prolog world,
and call dlls written in C from within Prolog.


>One thing I find a challenge in Prolog is when I have to do things
>that are of a "traditional iterative" nature where I'd normally just
>request some sort of LOOP construct in other languages.  I find myself
>fighting with Prolog at such moments.

If you need loops, then most likely you are not programming in Prolog
but "prologish". But if you really need them then you can have them.
See for example

Schimpf J, Logical Loops, in 18th International Conference ICLP 2002,
Copenhagen, Denmark, pg 224-238, Springer-Verlag, 2002. [postscript]

on this page

http://www-icparc.doc.ic.ac.uk/publ...s_byauthor.html

A.L>