No wars

I have been adviced by several folk to come over here as the other
assembly list is full of warring faction.  lol.


So where do I start, RosAsm, HLA, or inline w/ Delphi/VB/C/C++ etc.???

THanks folks

"Arich Chanachai" <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote in message
news:0radnXdCmoEfNNTcRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> I have been adviced by several folk to come over here as the other
> assembly list is full of warring faction.  lol.
>
>
> So where do I start, RosAsm, HLA, or inline w/ Delphi/VB/C/C++ etc.???

How about starting here:
http://webster.cs.ucr.edu

Cheers,
Randy Hyde

Arich Chanachai  <spamtrap@crayne.org> writes:

> I have been adviced by several folk to come over here as the other
> assembly list is full of warring faction.  lol.
>
>
> So where do I start, RosAsm, HLA, or inline w/ Delphi/VB/C/C++ etc.???

Would you enter a culinary group and ask "what should I cook?"?

It depends on what you already know you like, what you're doing
it for, and what resources you have available to you.

Phil
--
They no longer do my traditional winks tournament lunch - liver and bacon.
It's just what you need during a winks tournament lunchtime to replace lost
... liver.   -- Anthony Horton, 2004/08/27 at the Cambridge 'Long Vac.'

> So where do I start, RosAsm, HLA, or inline w/ Delphi/VB/C/C++ etc.???

What are you trying to accomplish?

* using ASM as a primary language
* using ASM as a learning tool for computer architecture
* using ASM as a speed extension for other languages
* using ASM for hardware programming

It also depends on your skill level.

Jon
----
Learn to program using Linux assembly language
http://www.cafeshops.com/bartlettpublish.8640017

> So where do I start, RosAsm, HLA, or inline w/ Delphi/VB/C/C++ etc.???

In any case I wouldn't suggest you any inline assembly for learning asm. I
wouldn't suggest you (sorry, Randall!) HLA as well because it is High
Level which (by definition IMHO) has *nothing* to do with low-level things
like assembler. If you prefer HL then go learn some HLL. if not, learn a
usual, truly low-level assembler. I suggest you NASM but most folks begin
(I did, too) with TASM or MASM.

P.S. VB has no inline asm.

--
Ivan

e-mail me at: korotkov2 at ztel dot ru

"Ivan Korotkov" <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote in message
news:opsefrrqfxwin0yh@news.zebratelecom.ru... 
>
> In any case I wouldn't suggest you any inline assembly for learning asm. I
> wouldn't suggest you (sorry, Randall!) HLA as well because it is High
> Level which (by definition IMHO) has *nothing* to do with low-level things
> like assembler. If you prefer HL then go learn some HLL. if not, learn a
> usual, truly low-level assembler. I suggest you NASM but most folks begin
> (I did, too) with TASM or MASM.
>

Ivan, perhaps you can explain how HLA is a high-level assembler that
prevents you from learning things you'd learn with MASM and TASM.
This is an especially interesting remark, as HLA's high-level features were
mostly taken from MASM and TASM :-)

There is little you can do with a traditional assembler that cannot also
be done with a high-level assembler like HLA, MASM, or TASM.
These high-level assemblers compile all the same instructions as other
x86 assemblers, they just happen to have additional features that
you may choose to ignore if you don't want to use them.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde

> Ivan, perhaps you can explain how HLA is a high-level assembler that
> prevents you from learning things you'd learn with MASM and TASM.
>
> There is little you can do with a traditional assembler that cannot also
> be done with a high-level assembler like HLA, MASM, or TASM.
> These high-level assemblers compile all the same instructions as other
> x86 assemblers, they just happen to have additional features that
> you may choose to ignore if you don't want to use them.

You're right. But HLA uses high-level syntax. One who programs in asm
should really use raw CPU instructions only, to get the idea of asm
programming.  Okay, that's my opinion, it's not absolute. ;)

> This is an especially interesting remark, as HLA's high-level features
> were
> mostly taken from MASM and TASM :-)

Yes, but they are not used so extensively as in HLA.

Or do I miss something about the latter??

--
Ivan

e-mail me at: korotkov2 at ztel dot ru

personaly speaking I suggest you get a copy of A86/D86 the shareware
assembler/debugger which comes with  a really good manual, if you
register you get a 386-pentium assembler and a printed copy of the
manual if you want it,  it's DOS of course.
theres also emu8086 an emulator assembler which is very useful for
looking at small pieces of code.

--
If you received this through the miracle of modern technology then all
is well; if not then situation normal.
Chris father of :-) ( also at chrisjbarnes@openlink.org )
www.users.zetnet.co.uk/barnes_firsnorton

"Ivan Korotkov" <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote in message

>
> You're right. But HLA uses high-level syntax. One who programs in asm
> should really use raw CPU instructions only, to get the idea of asm
> programming.  Okay, that's my opinion, it's not absolute. ;)

But this is a function of the user, not the language nor the implementation
of the language.

> 
>
> Yes, but they are not used so extensively as in HLA.

Again, a function of the user, not the language.

>
> Or do I miss something about the latter??
>

To date, there is probably quite a bit more MASM32/Win32
programming examples using the high-level assembler syntax
that MASM supports than there are HLA examples (because
of the sheer inertia that the MASM user base has, plus the seven-year
head-start of MASM v6.0 when high-level constructs were first
introduced). So I suspect that there are more examples of the use
of high-level assembly facilities in MASM than in HLA.

One claim that probably *could* be made is that the ratio
of MASM code containing high-level assembly features to
MASM code not containing high-level language features is
lower than that for HLA; but that's largely because there
was a *ton* of MASM code created in the DOS days, before
MASM added the high-level control structures in MASM v6.0.
Today, I'd be willing to bet that the number of new MASM
programs written with high-level language features is much higher
than the amount of MASM code written in pure low-level form.

I'd also bet that a higher percentage of HLA users take advantage
of high-level assembly features than MASM users, but this is largely
because HLA is a relatively new assembler and its user base grew
up with those features, whereas a lot of MASM users are "old school"
having learned assembly prior to the introduction of the high-level
code.

Regardless of use, however, *no one* can call themselves an
assembly language programmer until they master all the low-level
facilities. This is true for *any* assembler.  And it's true regardless
of whether you use built-in HLL-like statements or macro
simulations of such statements.  People who create macros for
IF and WHILE statements and claim they're writing low-level
code because they wrote the original macros, are really fooling
themselves.

Ultimately, though, the advantage of a high-level assembler is that
the *programmer* gets to make the choice of how they want to
approach the problem.  A user of MASM, TASM, or HLA
can choose to write low-level code or high-level code. Users
of various other assemblers generally get stuck writing only
low-level code or using some limited macro emulation of the
HLL-like statements.  A high-level assembler user can write
the code anyway they want, not true for "traditional" assembler
users.

Advantage: high-level assemblers.

Cheers,
Randy Hyde

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 20:21:32 +0000 (UTC), Ivan Korotkov
<spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:
 
>
>In any case I wouldn't suggest you any inline assembly for learning asm. I
>wouldn't suggest you (sorry, Randall!) HLA as well because it is High
>Level which (by definition IMHO) has *nothing* to do with low-level things
>like assembler. If you prefer HL then go learn some HLL. if not, learn a
>usual, truly low-level assembler. I suggest you NASM but most folks begin
>(I did, too) with TASM or MASM.
>
>P.S. VB has no inline asm.

And no easy way to link in asm code, except as part of a DLL.
--
Arargh409 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html

To reply by email, remove the garbage from the reply address.