POD speed

I saw this note on the Prevayler website www.prevayler.com

Queries with Prevayler are more than 9000 times faster than querying
Oracle through JDBC.

Queries with Prevayler are more than 3000 times faster than querying
MySQL through JDBC.

Prevaler is a persistent object database.  see
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/pod.html

There are two surprises.

1. MySQL is 3 times faster than ORACLE but Oracle is far more
expensive?

2. PODs are that much faster than SQL.


--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.

Roedy Green wrote:
> I saw this note on the Prevayler website www.prevayler.com
>
> Queries with Prevayler are more than 9000 times faster than querying
> Oracle through JDBC.
>
> Queries with Prevayler are more than 3000 times faster than querying
> MySQL through JDBC.
>
> Prevaler is a persistent object database.  see
> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/pod.html
>
> There are two surprises.
>
> 1. MySQL is 3 times faster than ORACLE but Oracle is far more
> expensive?
>
> 2. PODs are that much faster than SQL.

Roedy,

What you're seeing is Prevayler agreeing with MySQL to look at the world
through red-tinted glasses, while Oracle sees with blue-tinted glasses.
The resulting pictures are much different.  Notice that you don't get to
see which queries are faster, or what the data looks like for the
queries, or how the database is being used concurrently for other tasks
at the same time.  That's because these details are being tweaked to be
as friendly as possible to the simple object-access case that this
object database (and to a lesser extent MySQL, as well) is tuned for.

This is a common division of database vendors.  Though there are a lot
of exceptions, most object database systems don't really target the
high-scalability, high-reliability audience.  If you aren't doing the
work that makes for that kind of scalability and reliability, it's
really easy to post performance numbers that look out of this world.

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way to Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

"Roedy Green" <look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote in message
 news:5oepb01daag3f31gap24vcjcshhsuce17d@
4ax.com...
> I saw this note on the Prevayler website www.prevayler.com
>
> Queries with Prevayler are more than 9000 times faster than querying
> Oracle through JDBC.
>
> Queries with Prevayler are more than 3000 times faster than querying
> MySQL through JDBC.
>
> Prevaler is a persistent object database.  see
> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/pod.html
>
> There are two surprises.
>
> 1. MySQL is 3 times faster than ORACLE but Oracle is far more
> expensive?
>
> 2. PODs are that much faster than SQL.
>
>
> --
> Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
> Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
> See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.

Roedy,

A storage system for persisted objects has nothing to do with a relational
database system apart from the fact that the latter could be used to emulate
the former. Comparing them is plain stupid and I am afraid this tells us a
lot about the guys behind the product.

Silvio Bierman

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 00:44:00 +0200, "Silvio Bierman"
<sbierman@idfix.nl> wrote or quoted :

>
>A storage system for persisted objects has nothing to do with a relational
>database system apart from the fact that the latter could be used to emulat
e
>the former. Comparing them is plain stupid and I am afraid this tells us a
>lot about the guys behind the product.

There are projects that could go POD or SQL.  I think people tend to
overlook the POD approach simply because the SQL approach is more
familiar.

I used to work for Univac, so I am well familiar with tweaking
benchmarks.

However, they are talking a many orders of magnitude difference. Even
if this only happens under special circumstances, it means POD's
deserve a second look.

--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.

"Roedy Green" <look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote in message
 news:k39qb01r6r6k7l0mbbaimrof7hja7ps690@
4ax.com...
> On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 00:44:00 +0200, "Silvio Bierman"
> <sbierman@idfix.nl> wrote or quoted :
> 
relational 
emulate 
a 
>
> There are projects that could go POD or SQL.  I think people tend to
> overlook the POD approach simply because the SQL approach is more
> familiar.
>
> I used to work for Univac, so I am well familiar with tweaking
> benchmarks.
>
> However, they are talking a many orders of magnitude difference. Even
> if this only happens under special circumstances, it means POD's
> deserve a second look.
>
> --
> Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
> Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
> See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.

Roedy,

As I already stated I think the POD approach is a draconic simplification
that serves no practical use other than the most trivial applications. I
also said that a RDBMS can be used as an awkward POD storage system so
whenever you consider a POD solution the RDBMS is always an option.

It has nothing to do with familiarity just like serializing objects has
nothing to do with a database. A relational database is a stylized and
standardized way to store data for efficient retrieval through multiple
access paths and through multiple applications. Serializing objects is a
program-(language)-local way of storing a memory-object for recreation at a
later moment.

People who mix up the two have usually no experience whatsoever whith
developing mission critical enterprise applications...

Regards,

Silvio Bierman

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 23:16:10 +0200, "Silvio Bierman"
<sbierman@idfix.nl> wrote or quoted :

>As I already stated I think the POD approach is a draconic simplification
>that serves no practical use other than the most trivial applications

I don't see that.  PODs give you transaction processing, persistence,
infinite RAM.  The one thing you don't get is to hide information.

--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.

Roedy Green wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 23:16:10 +0200, "Silvio Bierman"
> <sbierman@idfix.nl> wrote or quoted :
> 
>
> I don't see that.  PODs give you transaction processing, persistence,
> infinite RAM.  The one thing you don't get is to hide information.

Too bad you snipped his putdown of you, which you deserved. You are out of y
our element
here.

--
Lee Fesperman, FirstSQL, Inc. (http://www.firstsql.com)
 ========================================
======================
* The Ultimate DBMS is here!
* FirstSQL/J Object/Relational DBMS  (http://www.firstsql.com)

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 23:22:49 GMT, Lee Fesperman
<firstsql@ix.netcom.com> wrote or quoted :

>
>Too bad you snipped his putdown of you, which you deserved. You are out of 
your element
>here.

You explained nothing.  Claiming superior knowledge, using a putdown,
without sharing that knowledge is a cheap shot.

Why should I quote his rude remarks? My post had nothing to do with
them.


--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.

Roedy Green wrote:
>
> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 23:22:49 GMT, Lee Fesperman
> <firstsql@ix.netcom.com> wrote or quoted : 
>
> You explained nothing.  Claiming superior knowledge, using a putdown,
> without sharing that knowledge is a cheap shot.

You can't explain the whole of database concepts in a newsgroup posting.

To put it simply, POD is not a Database Management System (DBMS) because it 
does not
manage the database. It does not provide data integrity, security and access
. It is
nothing more than an object persistence layer.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Without a DBMS, the data cannot be trus
ted. It is
little more than garbage. Fast access to garbage is meaningless.

--
Lee Fesperman, FirstSQL, Inc. (http://www.firstsql.com)
 ========================================
======================
* The Ultimate DBMS is here!
* FirstSQL/J Object/Relational DBMS  (http://www.firstsql.com)

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:17:35 GMT, Lee Fesperman
<firstsql@ix.netcom.com> wrote or quoted :

> It does not provide data integrity, security and access. It is
>nothing more than an object persistence layer.

The POD I used, ObjectStore, did provide integrity, by using
transactions.  Granted, it did not let you give selective access to
different fields the way SQL does.  I not sure what you mean by
security, but perhaps you are referring the password type, which would
not be hard to implement in a POD.


--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.