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| Author |
what is a best platform to develop native Linux gui app?
|
|
| FrankW 2006-04-08, 7:05 pm |
| Hi,
I'd like to develop some linux apps using its native tools, which is a
better option:
1) KDE with its KDeveloper?
2) GNome with its Glade?
or any other options?
| |
| tony caduto 2006-04-08, 10:06 pm |
| FrankW wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to develop some linux apps using its native tools, which is a
> better option:
>
> 1) KDE with its KDeveloper?
> 2) GNome with its Glade?
>
> or any other options?
>
>
The latest Monodevelop has a integrated GTK# forms designer,
might be worth checking out.
You could also use Lazarus.
--
Tony Caduto
AM Software Design
Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com
| |
| Paul Nichols (TeamB) 2006-04-09, 4:06 am |
| FrankW wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to develop some linux apps using its native tools, which is a
> better option:
>
> 1) KDE with its KDeveloper?
> 2) GNome with its Glade?
>
> or any other options?
KDeveloper works well. Glade is still well, kind of cludgy
| |
| Martin Schreiber 2006-04-10, 4:15 am |
| FrankW wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to develop some linux apps using its native tools, which is a
> better option:
>
> 1) KDE with its KDeveloper?
> 2) GNome with its Glade?
>
> or any other options?
MSEide+MSEgui
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/msegui/
Martin
| |
| Dag Fjeld Edvardsen 2006-04-10, 8:21 am |
| > I'd like to develop some linux apps using its native tools, which is a
> better option:
>
> 1) KDE with its KDeveloper?
> 2) GNome with its Glade?
>
> or any other options?
Notice that Kylix 3 seems to be working perfectly in
the newest Mandriva distribution (I have only
tried the Object Pascal part, do not know if
C++ is working).
I used the tips from:
http://www.theo.ch/kylix/suse10.html
Regards,
Dag
| |
| zeljko 2006-04-10, 7:07 pm |
| "Dag Fjeld Edvardsen" <dfe who is located on byggforsk dot no> wrote:
> Notice that Kylix 3 seems to be working perfectly in
> the newest Mandriva distribution (I have only
> tried the Object Pascal part, do not know if
> C++ is working).
what is the glibc version inside ?
| |
| Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho 2006-04-10, 7:07 pm |
| FrankW wrote:
> I'd like to develop some linux apps using its native tools, which is a
> better option:
Lazarus =)
Lazarus is a cross platform Visual IDE developed for and supported by
Free Pascal. It aims to provide a Delphi Clone for Pascal and Object
Pascal developers using the open source Free Pascal compiler.
It can compile the same code on several architectures /operating systems
and also compiles VCL-based apps.
Lazarus website: http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/
A screenshot of the IDE running a popular software created with Lazarus:
http://sourceforge.net/project/scre...?group_id=60638
Wikipedia article about Lazarus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_%28software%29
Felipe
| |
| Sam Remek 2006-04-10, 7:07 pm |
| Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:
> FrankW wrote:
>
>
>
> Lazarus =)
>
> Lazarus is a cross platform Visual IDE developed for and supported by
> Free Pascal. It aims to provide a Delphi Clone for Pascal and Object
> Pascal developers using the open source Free Pascal compiler.
>
> It can compile the same code on several architectures /operating systems
> and also compiles VCL-based apps.
>
> Lazarus website: http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/
>
> A screenshot of the IDE running a popular software created with Lazarus:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/project/scre...?group_id=60638
>
> Wikipedia article about Lazarus:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_%28software%29
>
> Felipe
Felipe,
PMFJI, Lazarus sounds interesting, but will it compile any/most/all 3rd
party components if I have the source code? What about TeeChartPro or
QuantumGrid? Or is it possible to get Intraweb running on it if I want
to create webservers? Or is there a better alternative to building
webservers on Lazarus? Is there anyone building commercial applications
with Lazarus?
TIA
Sam
| |
| Dag Fjeld Edvardsen 2006-04-10, 7:07 pm |
| > > Notice that Kylix 3 seems to be working perfectly in
>
> what is the glibc version inside ?
Mandriva 10.1 uses glibc 2.3.3
| |
|
|
> Felipe,
> PMFJI, Lazarus sounds interesting, but will it compile any/most/all
> 3rd party components if I have the source code? What about TeeChartPro
> or QuantumGrid? Or is it possible to get Intraweb running on it if I
> want to create webservers? Or is there a better alternative to building
> webservers on Lazarus? Is there anyone building commercial applications
> with Lazarus?
>
Lazarus is a great Project, but it isn't a perfect Delphi/Kylix replacement.
Porting Delphi/Kylix visual components to Lazarus takes a major rewrite
in most cases. And even then you'll miss some vital features.
You may have better luck with non visual components, which FPC (which
Lazarus is based on) will compile quite nicely with little adjustments.
| |
| Marco van de Voort 2006-04-11, 8:13 am |
| On 2006-04-10, Sam Remek <sam@nospam.com> wrote:
> PMFJI, Lazarus sounds interesting, but will it compile any/most/all 3rd
> party components if I have the source code?
> What about TeeChartPro or QuantumGrid? Or is it possible to get Intraweb
> running on it if I want to create webservers?
Probably not. Some components will work some not, and some will with some
mods.
> Or is there a better alternative to building
> webservers on Lazarus?
Indy http server?
> Is there anyone building commercial applications with Lazarus?
There are several. But I don't know anyone doing webapps using highlevel
components atm (some that have own http servers)
| |
| haword 2006-04-11, 7:08 pm |
| > MSEide+MSEgui
>
> http://mypage.bluewin.ch/msegui/
It's  IDE for FPC but completely do not combine on Delphi/Kylix :( but
then for GUI does not use the outside libraries!
| |
| Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho 2006-04-12, 9:15 am |
| theo wrote:
> Lazarus is a great Project, but it isn't a perfect Delphi/Kylix replacement.
Delphi (5 to 7) still produceses smaller executables, is better
documented and more stable. But then I can compile my code with Delphi
on Windows and with Lazarus on the rest of the platforms =)
Also Lazarus is far superior to Kylix. To start with it works on all
distros without tricks, is still being developed, compiles VCL code, as
opposed to having to rewrite VCL software (which is the majority) in CLX.
And if your source works on Lazarus, there is a good chance it works
without modifications on many targets Kylix will never reach. Just to
start: All BSDs, Mac OS X, Windows CE, Solaris.
Also you can choose your widgetset on Unixes. Gtk, Gtk2 or Qt. With the
same source you can link to any of them =)
> Porting Delphi/Kylix visual components to Lazarus takes a major rewrite
> in most cases. And even then you'll miss some vital features.
Only the visual part needs to be changed. If you use the component from
code, as opposed to drop it on the from, it will need as little changes
as a non-visual component needs.
Felipe
| |
| tony caduto 2006-04-12, 9:15 am |
| Marco van de Voort wrote:
[color=darkred]
Synapse works great with free pascal and Lazarus, and it comes
with a http server demo.
--
Tony Caduto
AM Software Design
Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com
| |
| Mat Ballard 2006-04-12, 7:08 pm |
| Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:
> ... Lazarus ...
> Only the visual part needs to be changed. If you use the component from
> code, as opposed to drop it on the from, it will need as little changes
> as a non-visual component needs.
Some time ago I started writing a project to parse DFM files and "insert" their
contents into subroutines called the FormCreate event.
In that way you could develop your app on Windoze, then "Parse" it to create a
DFM-less project.
I originally did this to aid component development - you can get into all sorts
of interesting trouble by placing an experimental component on a form. But it
seems to me that such a program may be quite useful in porting from Delphi to
Lazarus.
What do you reckon ?
cheers,
Mat
| |
| Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho 2006-04-13, 7:08 pm |
| Mat Ballard wrote:
> I originally did this to aid component development - you can get into all sorts
> of interesting trouble by placing an experimental component on a form. But it
> seems to me that such a program may be quite useful in porting from Delphi to
> Lazarus.
>
> What do you reckon ?
Some people like to develop with Delphi and then port to Lazarus. They
claim that this way the developmente speed is higher. It could be very
usefull to them.
Is this available for download somewhere?
Even better if you can provide the source-code.
Even much better if you could make it GPL and make it available as a
Source Forge project. Itīs free to start new Source Forge projects.
thanks,
Felipe
| |
|
| Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
As much as I like lazarus and you, please stay with the facts.
Where in Kylix people are keen to find things that don't work, I'm
looking in Lazarus for things that DO work.
I'm not talking about the linker or the debugger, which are certainly
worse than Borland's for reasons we know.
But telling that GTK2 and QT interface work beyond the "hello world"
example is just a lie.
If only the GTK interface could do Drag and Drop, or Form OnMinimize
etc, we can talk again.
| |
| Michael Schnell 2006-04-14, 4:11 am |
| >
>
> Some time ago I started writing a project to parse DFM files and "insert" their
> contents into subroutines called the FormCreate event.
>
AFAIK, this is exactly what the VCL does, anyway. The DFM files are
loaded into the exe as a resource and the VCL init code (supposedly
Application.CreateForm) reads the resource as a stream and creates the
objects by calling the appropriate "create" functions and afterwards
setting the appropriate properties.
So it should be easy to extract that functionality from the VCL code.
-Michael
| |
| Marco van de Voort 2006-04-14, 8:10 am |
| On 2006-04-14, theo <nospam@for.me> wrote:
> But telling that GTK2 and QT interface work beyond the "hello world"
> example is just a lie.
While I agree with you that the in-development and in-production items must
be kept separate, there are some errors in above statement.
Afaik the QT and Carbon ports are indeed quite initial, though there was a
stream of "now this also works" msgs about the QT port recently, so that
could be improved.
However, the GTK2 port is further though, though not complete. Some people
already use the GTK2 lazarus to create GTK1 apps due to better readable
(anti-aliased) fonts. I myself did this for a while already back in
November.
> If only the GTK interface could do Drag and Drop, or Form OnMinimize
> etc, we can talk again.
I assume you mean within a certain component? Since in the IDE with GTK1 I can
drag and drop the components on the form, and lazarus is written in itself?
| |
| Marco van de Voort 2006-04-14, 8:10 am |
| On 2006-04-12, Mat Ballard <mat@chemwares.com> wrote:
> I originally did this to aid component development - you can get into all sorts
> of interesting trouble by placing an experimental component on a form. But it
> seems to me that such a program may be quite useful in porting from Delphi to
> Lazarus.
I don't think it matters that much for porting, but it could be useful for
people that have to maintain stuff in both delphi and lazarus.
This because to my knowledge, lazarus contains a dfm(text form)->lfm
converter, but not the other way around.
Most stuff not understood by the dfm->lfm converter won't work anyway since
that usually means components are missing or incomplete.
| |
|
| Marco van de Voort schrieb:
>
> However, the GTK2 port is further though, though not complete. Some people
> already use the GTK2 lazarus to create GTK1 apps due to better readable
> (anti-aliased) fonts. I myself did this for a while already back in
> November.
It depends on what you expect / can live with.
If you run the IDE in GTK2 mode, you can't even choose a font size for
the editor. I see no arrows in combo-boxes of the object inspector etc.
This makes the IDE in GTK2 mode unusable for me.
Of course it's close to "usable" and I like it. I just wanted to add
some modesty to felipes post, which seems a bit euphoric to me.
>
>
> I assume you mean within a certain component? Since in the IDE with GTK1 I can
> drag and drop the components on the form, and lazarus is written in itself?
>
In Kylix/Delphi, you have OnDragDrop event etc. from TControl on. Not in
Lazarus.
| |
|
|
|
| Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho schrieb:
>
> I am pretty sure it can.
>
> If it cannot, please send us a test program so we can fix it.
>
You don't need a test program to see that there is no OnDragDrop event
in TControl descendants and no OnMinimize event in TApplication.
TForm's OnWindowStateChange does not work either when minimizing a form
by WM Decorations (GTK1/Linux)
| |
| Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho 2006-04-14, 7:10 pm |
| theo wrote:
> You don't need a test program to see that there is no OnDragDrop event
> in TControl descendants and no OnMinimize event in TApplication.
There are other ways to do Drag & Drop. I'm not sure how because I
haven't needed it so far, but there are many e-mails on lazarus mailling
list about this, you can ask there.
> TForm's OnWindowStateChange does not work either when minimizing a form
> by WM Decorations (GTK1/Linux)
Works on Gtk2. Probably a simple bug, I'll take a look to see why it
works on gtk2 and not on gtk1.
Felipe
| |
|
| theo wrote:
> Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho schrieb:
>
>
>
>
> You don't need a test program to see that there is no OnDragDrop event
> in TControl descendants and no OnMinimize event in TApplication.
>
> TForm's OnWindowStateChange does not work either when minimizing a form
> by WM Decorations (GTK1/Linux)
I am pretty sure this was fixed recently by myself. Have a look again
and file a bug if it is still not working in linux/gtk1
Thanks,
Andrew Haines
| |
| Terry A Haimann 2006-04-15, 7:06 pm |
| My biggest problem with Lazarus is the database libraries included with it.
I purchased a product for Delphi that lets me use data aware components
with MySQL (DbNavigator, dbedit and such.) I have not found anything
similar for Lazarus for either MySQL or PostgreSQL. Therefore to get
comparable app written in Lazarus as I have done in Delphi takes
approximately four times as much work (and I usually have to drop a
feature or two.) This is pretty crummy, because MySQL and PostgreSQL are
the two most common database servers in the linux world. If they can't
support these, what can they support. The visual components provided with
Lazarus are purely for show, since they can't be used to access data in
either of the above databases!
Terry
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:55:48 -0300, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:
> FrankW wrote:
>
> Lazarus =)
>
> Lazarus is a cross platform Visual IDE developed for and supported by
> Free Pascal. It aims to provide a Delphi Clone for Pascal and Object
> Pascal developers using the open source Free Pascal compiler.
>
> It can compile the same code on several architectures /operating systems
> and also compiles VCL-based apps.
>
> Lazarus website: http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/
>
> A screenshot of the IDE running a popular software created with Lazarus:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/project/scre...?group_id=60638
>
> Wikipedia article about Lazarus:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_%28software%29
>
> Felipe
| |
|
|
| Terry A Haimann 2006-04-15, 7:06 pm |
| On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:26:02 -0300, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:
My biggest problem with Lazarus is the database libraries included with it.
I purchased a product for Delphi that lets me use data aware components
with MySQL (DbNavigator, dbedit and such.) I have not found anything
similar for Lazarus for either MySQL or PostgreSQL. Therefore to get
comparable app written in Lazarus as I have done in Delphi takes
approximately four times as much work (and I usually have to drop a
feature or two.) This is pretty crummy, because MySQL and PostgreSQL are
the two most common database servers in the linux world. If they can't
support these, what can they support. The visual components provided with
Lazarus are purely for show, since they can't be used to access data in
either of the above databases!
Terry
> theo wrote:
>
> Delphi (5 to 7) still produceses smaller executables, is better
> documented and more stable. But then I can compile my code with Delphi
> on Windows and with Lazarus on the rest of the platforms =)
>
> Also Lazarus is far superior to Kylix. To start with it works on all
> distros without tricks, is still being developed, compiles VCL code, as
> opposed to having to rewrite VCL software (which is the majority) in CLX.
>
> And if your source works on Lazarus, there is a good chance it works
> without modifications on many targets Kylix will never reach. Just to
> start: All BSDs, Mac OS X, Windows CE, Solaris.
>
> Also you can choose your widgetset on Unixes. Gtk, Gtk2 or Qt. With the
> same source you can link to any of them =)
>
>
> Only the visual part needs to be changed. If you use the component from
> code, as opposed to drop it on the from, it will need as little changes
> as a non-visual component needs.
>
> Felipe
| |
| Marco van de Voort 2006-04-18, 4:08 am |
| On 2006-04-15, Terry A Haimann <terry@Pegasus.oldboy> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:26:02 -0300, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:
>
> My biggest problem with Lazarus is the database libraries included with it.
You are aware that they are not preinstalled? They are there, just install
the pkg sqldb. There are also other libs (like openzeos).
Of course it is hard to make a general statement about anything mysql
related due to the horrible versioning of that product.
They might not be as polished as whatever you've got, but there a
> If they can't
> support these, what can they support. The visual components provided with
> Lazarus are purely for show, since they can't be used to access data in
> either of the above databases!
This is incorrect. Probably you didn't read the manual how to activate the
db support. These are not installed by default because they rely on the
relevant db client libraries.
| |
| Terry A Haimann 2006-04-18, 10:06 pm |
| I didn't say I couldn't access MySql data, I can. What I mean't is that I
can only access them as a query. Therefore I can't use any of the
data-aware components (at least in update mode,) because that requires
read/write access at the same time. With Delphi (using DAC for MySQL) I
do this all of the time, therefore I can write an app in about one quarter
the effort with Delphi as I can with Lazarus.
Now if you guys were smart, you would make some sort of a deal with one of
the companies that market MySQL components for Delphi to convert it to
Lazarus. Yes I am willing to pay a fee for such a product and I bet
others are to.
TerryOn Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:03:06 -0700, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> On 2006-04-15, Terry A Haimann <terry@Pegasus.oldboy> wrote:
>
> You are aware that they are not preinstalled? They are there, just install
> the pkg sqldb. There are also other libs (like openzeos).
>
> Of course it is hard to make a general statement about anything mysql
> related due to the horrible versioning of that product.
>
> They might not be as polished as whatever you've got, but there a
>
>
> This is incorrect. Probably you didn't read the manual how to activate the
> db support. These are not installed by default because they rely on the
> relevant db client libraries.
| |
| Martin Schreiber 2006-04-19, 8:08 am |
| Terry A Haimann wrote:
> I didn't say I couldn't access MySql data, I can. What I mean't is that I
> can only access them as a query. Therefore I can't use any of the
> data-aware components (at least in update mode,) because that requires
> read/write access at the same time. With Delphi (using DAC for MySQL) I
> do this all of the time, therefore I can write an app in about one quarter
> the effort with Delphi as I can with Lazarus.
>
FPC TSQLQuery is updateable.
Have a look on MSEide+MSEgui, current snapshot, tmsesqlquery.
Based on FPC TSQLQuery, can update multitable queries by onapplyrecupdate
and onupdaterror.
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/msegui/
Martin
| |
| Cristian Nicola 2006-04-19, 8:08 am |
| I *think* the market is much much smaller than you think it is ..
Outside of dbaware components just as an example DirectMysql has had exactly
about 3 free pascal users ...I don't think there has been any lazarus
users...
Kind regards,
Cristian Nicola
"Terry A Haimann" <terry@Pegasus.oldboy> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.04.19.02.12.20.742419@Pegasus.oldboy...
> I didn't say I couldn't access MySql data, I can. What I mean't is that I
> can only access them as a query. Therefore I can't use any of the
> data-aware components (at least in update mode,) because that requires
> read/write access at the same time. With Delphi (using DAC for MySQL) I
> do this all of the time, therefore I can write an app in about one quarter
> the effort with Delphi as I can with Lazarus.
>
> Now if you guys were smart, you would make some sort of a deal with one of
> the companies that market MySQL components for Delphi to convert it to
> Lazarus. Yes I am willing to pay a fee for such a product and I bet
> others are to.
>
| |
| Marco van de Voort 2006-04-22, 7:08 pm |
| On 2006-04-19, Terry A Haimann <terry@Pegasus.oldboy> wrote:
>
> Now if you guys were smart, you would make some sort of a deal with one of
> the companies that market MySQL components for Delphi to convert it to
> Lazarus. Yes I am willing to pay a fee for such a product and I bet
> others are to.
I'm wondering what we would actually gain by that. If you need a small term
fix, and can't wait/contribute till the components are fully developed, you
could also make them a proposal?
P.s. IMHO crucial components as standard db-access should be freely
distributable with FPC/Lazarus. I'm not anti-commercial, and there could be
a place for commercial vendors to provide components if Lazarus ever takes
off, but not for the core system.
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