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opinion on future of kylix
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| Ivan Revelli 2005-05-03, 4:04 pm |
| hi,
Kylix is a great idea for a lot of aspects, but if the product will not
supported by upgrades all work done to enter in this area of business will
be destroyed. Now doing a Kylix version compatible with new Qt versions and
some new cores is not for Borland a big work i think. Kylix is a good
product that can be really the first in linux develpment, another try to
open this area can be very important in the future. Now Kylix 3 is used by a
lot of programmers in the world, probably al lot of person / factory are
ready to buy a new version of the product. Remember that a lot of kylix 3
license was selled combo by delphi 7 and a lot of programmers starder with
that.
bst rgds
ivan
info@csdrevelli.it
www.csdrevelli.it
p.s. : sorry, i don't speak english well. thanks
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Ivan,
Here's an interesting idea (perhaps)...
If Borland thinks it is not worth the $investment$ to update Kylix, for fear of it not producing an acceptable ROI, is it possible we (the Kylix-using community) could "contract them" to invest in upgrading it??
What I am proposing is this: Borland sets a price (TOTAL development $ target they need to make it worth doing) to upgrade the Kylix platform to support latest Qt and modern Linux distro features, etc, then, they take "deposits" (pre-pay for the licenses
we desire) from all of us interested developers, and agree (contractually) to produce a product in X period of time (something reasonable like 6 months or a year). Then, let's assume that there are enough of us out here that will lay down the $$ to get
the updates we so desparately want. They must deliver a product update in order to not lose all this "deposited" (and guaranteed) money if they do the work!
Am I just dreaming, or could it be a way to work through this type of situation, where companies like Borland are sitting on a GREAT product (for many reasons!) but are unwilling to take the "risk" to invest in further upgrades or whatever? Please... any
thing to give us hope. I really don't think Borland realizes the asset they have in Kylix - it really has AWESOME potential, especially given the rise of Linux. I was a Linux skeptic for a long time, and a MS Certified Partner, etc... I really WANT to m
ove my Delphi projects over to run on Linux now that the platform is mature, and in some ways even superior to Windows. I only see the shift to Linux becoming larger/faster, as more awesome distros like Ubuntu/kubuntu, Kanotix, FC, etc take over.
Thoughts anyone? (especially from anyone at Borland)
Mike
"Ivan Revelli" <info@csdrevelli.it> wrote:
>hi,
> Kylix is a great idea for a lot of aspects, but if the product will not
>supported by upgrades all work done to enter in this area of business will
>be destroyed. Now doing a Kylix version compatible with new Qt versions and
>some new cores is not for Borland a big work i think. Kylix is a good
>product that can be really the first in linux develpment, another try to
>open this area can be very important in the future. Now Kylix 3 is used by a
>lot of programmers in the world, probably al lot of person / factory are
>ready to buy a new version of the product. Remember that a lot of kylix 3
>license was selled combo by delphi 7 and a lot of programmers starder with
>that.
>
>bst rgds
> ivan
>
>info@csdrevelli.it
>www.csdrevelli.it
>
>
>p.s. : sorry, i don't speak english well. thanks
>
>
| |
| Lionel Reynaud 2005-05-06, 9:00 am |
| Hi
I made a dream ;) if Borland could ear the Kylix users ...
All the work is already done (many thank's to Andreas and all), but no
update of Kylix3 come ...
Lionel
"mike" <mikeeberhart@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
427ad06a$1@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> Ivan,
>
> Here's an interesting idea (perhaps)...
> If Borland thinks it is not worth the $investment$ to update Kylix, for
> fear of it not producing an acceptable ROI, is it possible we (the
> Kylix-using community) could "contract them" to invest in upgrading it??
>
> What I am proposing is this: Borland sets a price (TOTAL development $
> target they need to make it worth doing) to upgrade the Kylix platform to
> support latest Qt and modern Linux distro features, etc, then, they take
> "deposits" (pre-pay for the licenses we desire) from all of us interested
> developers, and agree (contractually) to produce a product in X period of
> time (something reasonable like 6 months or a year). Then, let's assume
> that there are enough of us out here that will lay down the $$ to get the
> updates we so desparately want. They must deliver a product update in
> order to not lose all this "deposited" (and guaranteed) money if they do
> the work!
>
> Am I just dreaming, or could it be a way to work through this type of
> situation, where companies like Borland are sitting on a GREAT product
> (for many reasons!) but are unwilling to take the "risk" to invest in
> further upgrades or whatever? Please... anything to give us hope. I
> really don't think Borland realizes the asset they have in Kylix - it
> really has AWESOME potential, especially given the rise of Linux. I was a
> Linux skeptic for a long time, and a MS Certified Partner, etc... I really
> WANT to move my Delphi projects over to run on Linux now that the platform
> is mature, and in some ways even superior to Windows. I only see the
> shift to Linux becoming larger/faster, as more awesome distros like
> Ubuntu/kubuntu, Kanotix, FC, etc take over.
>
> Thoughts anyone? (especially from anyone at Borland)
>
> Mike
>
> "Ivan Revelli" <info@csdrevelli.it> wrote:
>
| |
| Ed Purkiss 2005-05-06, 4:03 pm |
| Nice idea Mike - it would give all of us a say in the future of the
language / platform as well as some kind of hope/guarantee that there
actually is a future. As a for-reals owner of D1-D6 Enterprise and K1-K3
Enterprise I have been a big supporter/user for a long time - however I
am getting push back from my clients about why I don't abandon this
"dead language" in favor of a Java/JBoss solution or the like.
I really get all the noise about the IDE for GUI development, but I
think an under-utilized feature of Kylix is the ability to create SOs
for apache - I have abandoned all local executables in favor of a
completely web-based architecture for every application... literally
everything. The best part is that my developers cannot write nasty
cryptic job-security-style C++ code (because of the O-Pascal dialect)
yet the final objects are compiled and run at the speed of C++. Given
the reliability of the Linux platform my applications run with an
up-time that FAR surpasses anything we've ever done with Windows. I wish
that the Borland folks would capitalize on the fact that folks like me
get fewer 2am calls because we've moved to Kylix/Linux rather than
simply selling out to the Dot-Nyet framework.
All this being said, I have my doubts that your idea would be acted on,
but I applaud your novel thinking. Hello Borland - if you're listening -
can you see the desperation and dedication of your loyal base? We all
understand your need to suck up to Uncle Bill, but can you throw just a
little love our way?
-EP
mike wrote:
> Ivan,
>
> Here's an interesting idea (perhaps)...
> If Borland thinks it is not worth the $investment$ to update Kylix, for fear of it not producing an acceptable ROI, is it possible we (the Kylix-using community) could "contract them" to invest in upgrading it??
>
> What I am proposing is this: Borland sets a price (TOTAL development $ target they need to make it worth doing) to upgrade the Kylix platform to support latest Qt and modern Linux distro features, etc, then, they take "deposits" (pre-pay for the licens
es we desire) from all of us interested developers, and agree (contractually) to produce a product in X period of time (something reasonable like 6 months or a year). Then, let's assume that there are enough of us out here that will lay down the $$ to ge
t the updates we so desparately want. They must deliver a product update in order to not lose all this "deposited" (and guaranteed) money if they do the work!
>
> Am I just dreaming, or could it be a way to work through this type of situation, where companies like Borland are sitting on a GREAT product (for many reasons!) but are unwilling to take the "risk" to invest in further upgrades or whatever? Please... a
nything to give us hope. I really don't think Borland realizes the asset they have in Kylix - it really has AWESOME potential, especially given the rise of Linux. I was a Linux skeptic for a long time, and a MS Certified Partner, etc... I really WANT to
move my Delphi projects over to run on Linux now that the platform is mature, and in some ways even superior to Windows. I only see the shift to Linux becoming larger/faster, as more awesome distros like Ubuntu/kubuntu, Kanotix, FC, etc take over.
>
> Thoughts anyone? (especially from anyone at Borland)
>
> Mike
>
> "Ivan Revelli" <info@csdrevelli.it> wrote:
>
>
>
| |
| Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu 2005-05-06, 4:03 pm |
| Ed Purkiss <ed@me3inc.com> wrote in
news:427b8b24$1@newsgroups.borland.com:
> I really get all the noise about the IDE for GUI development, but I
> think an under-utilized feature of Kylix is the ability to create SOs
> for apache - I have abandoned all local executables in favor of a
In fact - thats a main features. Most Kylix users do NOT build GUI apps but
use it server side, IntraWeb, DSO's, Indy.
> All this being said, I have my doubts that your idea would be acted on,
> but I applaud your novel thinking. Hello Borland - if you're listening -
> can you see the desperation and dedication of your loyal base? We all
> understand your need to suck up to Uncle Bill, but can you throw just a
> little love our way?
On a side note - and not I cant give any details yet - we may finally have
some movement on FreeCLX. We'll keep the community informed as we can.
--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
Blog: http://blogs.atozed.com/kudzu
| |
| Ed Purkiss 2005-05-06, 4:03 pm |
| Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com borland.public.kylix.non-technical:13949
> In fact - thats a main feature. Most Kylix users do NOT build GUI apps but
> use it server side, IntraWeb, DSO's, Indy.
Wow - thank you Chad for updating me, of course I understand the "main
featureness" of it, but not that it is used as prevalently as you
describe - that's very enthusing.
>
>
> On a side note - and not I cant give any details yet - we may finally have
> some movement on FreeCLX. We'll keep the community informed as we can.
Bravo! Let us all know if there is anything we can do!
Thanks for the response,
-EP
| |
| Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu 2005-05-06, 8:59 pm |
| Ed Purkiss <ed@me3inc.com> wrote in
news:427ba1ff$1@newsgroups.borland.com:
> Bravo! Let us all know if there is anything we can do!
Will do. We'll let you guys know anything as soon as it safe to do so.
--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
Blog: http://blogs.atozed.com/kudzu
| |
| Stig Johansen 2005-05-07, 3:59 am |
| Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu wrote:
> In fact - thats a main features. Most Kylix users do NOT build GUI apps
> but use it server side, IntraWeb, DSO's, Indy.
Don't forget the XML & SOAP features as well.
Will there be any chance, that the Xerces/Xalan stuff will be included?
I mean that Borland decided not to include any source for theese libraries.
Same question goes for the SOAP stuff.
I guess, the question could be: Will there be various level of communities?
- Open source community ( = FreeCLX)
- Community for registered Kylix PRO ( = FreeCLX + DB stuff )
- Community for registered Kylix Enterprise ( = FreeCLX + DB stuff +
XML/SOAP stuff)
In this way, registered enterprise users could collaborate on enhancing
i.e. SOAP since they all have (most of) the sources anyway.
I am not that good at expressing my self in english, but i hupe you get the
idea.
--
Best regards
Stig Johansen
| |
| Uffe Kousgaard 2005-05-08, 8:57 am |
| "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <cpub@hower.org> wrote in message
news:Xns964EC31B39243cpub@127.0.0.1...
>
> In fact - thats a main features. Most Kylix users do NOT build GUI apps
> but
> use it server side, IntraWeb, DSO's, Indy.
Agree. I wouldn't mind if they drop visual component support (CLX) in kylix.
Just keep releasing updated compilers, IDE and RTL. They should also bundle
it with the rest of Delphi, now that all other products except Java is in
the same box.
Regards
Uffe
| |
| Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu 2005-05-08, 3:59 pm |
| Stig Johansen <aaa@bbb.com> wrote in news:427c365a@newsgroups.borland.com:
> Don't forget the XML & SOAP features as well.
> Will there be any chance, that the Xerces/Xalan stuff will be included?
> I mean that Borland decided not to include any source for theese libraries.
Anything is possible. But first the team will focus on RTL and then CLX.
--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
Blog: http://blogs.atozed.com/kudzu
| |
| Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu 2005-05-08, 8:59 pm |
| "Uffe Kousgaard" <look_at_www.routeware.dk> wrote in
news:427dc9a7@newsgroups.borland.com:
> Agree. I wouldn't mind if they drop visual component support (CLX) in
> kylix. Just keep releasing updated compilers, IDE and RTL. They should
> also bundle it with the rest of Delphi, now that all other products
> except Java is in the same box.
Thats my focus as well, but there are those on the team interested in the
visual parts.
--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
Blog: http://blogs.atozed.com/kudzu
| |
| Stig Johansen 2005-05-09, 4:00 am |
| "Uffe Kousgaard" <look_at_www.routeware.dk> wrote:
> "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <cpub@hower.org> wrote in message
> news:Xns964EC31B39243cpub@127.0.0.1...
>
> Agree. I wouldn't mind if they drop visual component support (CLX) in
> kylix. Just keep releasing updated compilers, IDE and RTL.
Count me in as well.
--
Best regards
Stig Johansen
| |
| Ed Purkiss 2005-05-09, 4:04 pm |
| Stig Johansen wrote:
> "Uffe Kousgaard" <look_at_www.routeware.dk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Count me in as well.
>
Big Time - perhaps if they focused less on the GUI and more on the
those components we could push towards a compiler that ran on Tiger or
Solaris...? BTW I would be very willing to assist with keeping the
libaries up to date re. apache updates.
Perhaps a fork entitled Kylix Ungooey Server? ;)
| |
| Ivan Revelli 2005-05-17, 9:01 am |
| Hi Purkiss & Mike
i approve all you say, and i think that Kylix can have market with low
investment...
about .Net is a good technology can be ported in Linux too with the mono
prj really , but Kylix can be important for a lot of thing. Not only for
replace win32 apps (Apache SO, Graphical Programs, CAD and so on )
"Ed Purkiss" <ed@me3inc.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:427b8b24$1@newsgroups.borland.com...[color=darkred]
> Nice idea Mike - it would give all of us a say in the future of the
> language / platform as well as some kind of hope/guarantee that there
> actually is a future. As a for-reals owner of D1-D6 Enterprise and K1-K3
> Enterprise I have been a big supporter/user for a long time - however I am
> getting push back from my clients about why I don't abandon this "dead
> language" in favor of a Java/JBoss solution or the like.
>
> I really get all the noise about the IDE for GUI development, but I think
> an under-utilized feature of Kylix is the ability to create SOs for
> apache - I have abandoned all local executables in favor of a completely
> web-based architecture for every application... literally everything. The
> best part is that my developers cannot write nasty cryptic
> job-security-style C++ code (because of the O-Pascal dialect) yet the
> final objects are compiled and run at the speed of C++. Given the
> reliability of the Linux platform my applications run with an up-time that
> FAR surpasses anything we've ever done with Windows. I wish that the
> Borland folks would capitalize on the fact that folks like me get fewer
> 2am calls because we've moved to Kylix/Linux rather than simply selling
> out to the Dot-Nyet framework.
>
> All this being said, I have my doubts that your idea would be acted on,
> but I applaud your novel thinking. Hello Borland - if you're listening -
> can you see the desperation and dedication of your loyal base? We all
> understand your need to suck up to Uncle Bill, but can you throw just a
> little love our way?
>
> -EP
>
> mike wrote:
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