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Newbie to Software Testing!
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| Wolfram Jahn 2006-06-17, 7:09 pm |
| Corey Shuman wrote:
> ... and you dont come home with dirt under your
> nails.
Sure? How do manage this??
:-) :-) :-)
Wolfram
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| okay, maybe I didn't explain enough,
I'm in hardware/device testing. But most of the Tester job are Software
+ Testing.
I want to make that jump. How is that possible? It is possible without
software testing certs? I dont' think so, they even turn me down for a
junior tester position. just fustrated that it's only I don't have
_SOFTWARE_ testing expereicne. I have about 2 years hardware/device
testing exp.
I am not looking to be a Dev. I'm out from there.
btw, where are you from? I'm in Australia
Corey Shuman wrote:
> IMHO, you are wasting your time with certs. If you want more $$, you
> need more experience. If you want more credibility, you need more
> experience. If you are trying to get a job, certs wont nail the job for
> you. Experience will. Give it some time, and stick with QA. Dont look
> at QA as a door into Dev. as many do. It took me almost 9 years to
> break the 100k a year barrier, its all about time and experience.
> Its a nice career path and you dont come home with dirt under your
> nails.
> :D Good luck
> --Corey
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| Matthias Wolpers 2006-06-17, 7:09 pm |
| In article <1150506000.912231.238900@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"Jacky" <jacky.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote:
> okay, maybe I didn't explain enough,
>
> I'm in hardware/device testing. But most of the Tester job are Software
> + Testing.
>
> I want to make that jump. How is that possible?
a popular (if questionable) recruitment practice is to employ total
newbies or people with "relevant" experience but not people with
supposedly "irrelevant" experience.
no use arguing, it's a fact of life.
as corey explained, certificates do little to overcome that (lots of
internal interests tend to get in the way, and hiring managers may
decide its just not worth the hassle to fight for the unlikely
candidate).
i know two ways around this:
- test in open sw projects and get bugs fixed, then use those fixed bugs
as reference (experience and enthusiasm: ride 'em both)
- search for a lucky break in your current org: like, join the next task
force (dont tell us your projects always work...) and then just make
yourself useful as best you can: rubbing shoulders with the people who
do the kind of work you would like to do can be an amazingly fast method
in corporate environments
good luck, anyhow,
mats
[color=darkred]
> It is possible without
> software testing certs? I dont' think so, they even turn me down for a
> junior tester position. just fustrated that it's only I don't have
> _SOFTWARE_ testing expereicne. I have about 2 years hardware/device
> testing exp.
>
> I am not looking to be a Dev. I'm out from there.
>
> btw, where are you from? I'm in Australia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Corey Shuman wrote:
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| Michael Bolton 2006-06-17, 7:09 pm |
| > I'm in hardware/device testing. But most of the Tester job are Software
> + Testing.
>
> I want to make that jump. How is that possible? It is possible without
> software testing certs? I dont' think so, they even turn me down for a
> junior tester position. just fustrated that it's only I don't have
> _SOFTWARE_ testing expereicne. I have about 2 years hardware/device
> testing exp.
Certification is about letting someone else speak for your skills. I
don't let other people do that for me, unless I know, trust, and
respect them. I don't trust the certification companies or the
vendors, because (by and large) they sell certifications. It's
possible to get lots of jobs without such retail certifications.
Certification tests that I've seen mostly test your ability to memorize
and regurgitate someone's arbitrary definitions. The use lots of
multiple-guess, and they don't assess real problem-solving ability.
A smart company will hire you based on YOUR skills and YOUR
presentation, so it's best to speak for yourself. As a test manager, I
wouldn't have any problem hiring someone from a hardware background.
As a test manager, I would sooner hire someone with no certification
and who had read Lessons Learned in Software Testing, than hire someone
who had lots of certifications but hadn't read the book. I would
suggest that you need to keep digging. Make sure that your CV is
impeccable, and that you speak articulately at the interview, and that
your skills are as sharp as you can make them. If they're looking for
evidence of your skill, do a test report on a piece of open-source
software.
> btw, where are you from? I'm in Australia
Where in Australia?
---Michael B.
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| strazzerj@netscape.net 2006-06-19, 7:33 pm |
| Jacky wrote:
> okay, maybe I didn't explain enough,
>
> I'm in hardware/device testing. But most of the Tester job are Software
> + Testing.
>
> I want to make that jump. How is that possible? It is possible without
> software testing certs?
Yes, of course it is.
> I dont' think so, they even turn me down for a
> junior tester position. just fustrated that it's only I don't have
> _SOFTWARE_ testing expereicne. I have about 2 years hardware/device
> testing exp.
Did you ask why you were turned down?
Did they turn you down because you lack software testing experience, or
because you lack certification.
If the former, you need to find a way to get the relevant experience,
rather than choosing a random certification.
If the latter, ask them which certification they need.
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| Hi Michael,
Thanks for you advise, :)
In Mel, King's Park,
Michael Bolton wrote:
>
> certification is about letting someone else speak for your skills. I
> don't let other people do that for me, unless I know, trust, and
> respect them. I don't trust the certification companies or the
> vendors, because (by and large) they sell certifications. It's
> possible to get lots of jobs without such retail certifications.
> certification tests that I've seen mostly test your ability to memorize
> and regurgitate someone's arbitrary definitions. The use lots of
> multiple-guess, and they don't assess real problem-solving ability.
>
> A smart company will hire you based on YOUR skills and YOUR
> presentation, so it's best to speak for yourself. As a test manager, I
> wouldn't have any problem hiring someone from a hardware background.
> As a test manager, I would sooner hire someone with no certification
> and who had read Lessons Learned in Software Testing, than hire someone
> who had lots of certifications but hadn't read the book. I would
> suggest that you need to keep digging. Make sure that your CV is
> impeccable, and that you speak articulately at the interview, and that
> your skills are as sharp as you can make them. If they're looking for
> evidence of your skill, do a test report on a piece of open-source
> software.
>
>
> Where in Australia?
>
> ---Michael B.
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| > Did you ask why you were turned down?
> Did they turn you down because you lack software testing experience, or
> because you lack certification.
> If the former, you need to find a way to get the relevant experience,
> rather than choosing a random certification.
> If the latter, ask them which certification they need.
they need experience in using _Automated Test Tools_, which I have zero
experience. I could download them and proabbly run it against a
commercial software for _at home_ experience. But I doubt that's going
to work~
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| Shrinik 2006-06-24, 7:09 pm |
| >I could download them and proabbly run it against a
> commercial software for _at home_ experience. But I doubt that's going
> to work~
That should work. When they ask for test tool certification - it
appears that they are looking someone who know the *tool* to depth
possible. If they are planning to use you as "Automation tool product
specialist" not *Test Automation Specialist* - they are planning to cut
down on tool support costs.
In automation world, the tool knowledge is only a part of skill that
Automation Engineer needs to have. Unless tool knowledge is
supplemented with Good manual Testing skills and "knowledge about how
to exploit automation to perform GOOD testing" - automation projects
will not be successful. Show then that you can do the job.
People who insist on "Tool knowledge heavily or alone"- don't quite
seem to understand the concept of "Test automation" itself and talk the
language of the tool vendor.
You need to show them that you understand core principles of software
Testing in general, understand what automation can and can not do
(given the context) and use the automation tool to achieve what is
"economically" possible. From some stage onwards it is your convincing
skills that matter.
Shrini
Jacky wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> they need experience in using _Automated Test Tools_, which I have zero
> experience. I could download them and proabbly run it against a
> commercial software for _at home_ experience. But I doubt that's going
> to work~
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| strazzerj@netscape.net 2006-06-24, 7:09 pm |
|
Jacky wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> they need experience in using _Automated Test Tools_, which I have zero
> experience. I could download them and proabbly run it against a
> commercial software for _at home_ experience. But I doubt that's going
> to work~
If they are requiring experience, then clearly no certifications will
help.
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| Michael Bolton 2006-06-24, 7:09 pm |
| > If they are requiring experience, then clearly no certifications will help.
For some companies, if they can't find someone experienced, then (alas)
certification may help. Desperation drives people to make unfortunate
choices.
---Michael B.
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| Jacky 2006-06-25, 10:08 pm |
| Hi guys,
Do you know the hourly rate for a tester in Australia (Mel/Syd area)?
I started with A$30 per hour, and didn't hear any news from them. But I
have saw advertisements giving A$40 to A$80 per hour.
Thanks,
Jacky
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| Jared 2006-06-26, 10:06 pm |
| Oops, had intended to post publicly, and suspect it went elsewhere.
The rates look about right. I expect a graduate to be in the $25-$40
range, middling experience would be anything from $40 to $75 depending
on industry. Senior is $60-80 depending on industry, and a manager
could go up to $100 per hour.
Your results may vary.
On finding a job or crossing domains, I blogged instead of re-typing.
Sorry! http://www.quinert.com/blog/
Jared
Jacky wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Do you know the hourly rate for a tester in Australia (Mel/Syd area)?
>
> I started with A$30 per hour, and didn't hear any news from them. But I
> have saw advertisements giving A$40 to A$80 per hour.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Jacky
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| Jacky 2006-06-28, 10:03 pm |
|
Jared wrote:
> Oops, had intended to post publicly, and suspect it went elsewhere.
haha! :) you emailed to me!! do u want me to post it here for u?
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| Michael Bolton 2006-06-29, 7:07 pm |
| Jacky wrote:
> Jared wrote:
>
>
> haha! :) you emailed to me!! do u want me to post it here for u?
Here's something to note, though, Jacky. I don't know anything about
you, other than the quality of ideas that you express, dressed in the
clothing of the text that you use. Your ideas might be okay, but for
me, using SMS-style text is the rough equivalent of coming to the
interview bare-chested in surfer shorts. It suggests to me that you
care about your time and/or effort more than you care about the reader.
Prince can get away with saying "nothing compares 2 u", but I wouldn't
want to see a bug report presented that way. So one way that you can
help to certify yourself is to use proper English in public forums,
especially when you're in conversation with (or being watched by) a
prospective employer--which could be the case at any time.
---Michael B.
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| Thanks Michael. I will take note of that.
Busy with preparation to move to Melbourne Victoria University's Hostel
within 2 w s.
Wish me luck!
Thanks,
Jacky
Michael Bolton wrote:
> Jacky wrote:
>
> Here's something to note, though, Jacky. I don't know anything about
> you, other than the quality of ideas that you express, dressed in the
> clothing of the text that you use. Your ideas might be okay, but for
> me, using SMS-style text is the rough equivalent of coming to the
> interview bare-chested in surfer shorts. It suggests to me that you
> care about your time and/or effort more than you care about the reader.
>
>
> Prince can get away with saying "nothing compares 2 u", but I wouldn't
> want to see a bug report presented that way. So one way that you can
> help to certify yourself is to use proper English in public forums,
> especially when you're in conversation with (or being watched by) a
> prospective employer--which could be the case at any time.
>
> ---Michael B.
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