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| Author |
can server call client?
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| Dmitry Sazonov 2005-03-22, 4:03 pm |
| I'm novice in web servers. We trying to understang, why
we should move to Web Services.
now I can make web service and client, which can call
server and receive answer.
But can server send Notifications to client, if soem
event happened? For example, is it possible to
make "Clock" web service, which will send time update to
interested client? Or client have to connect to server
1000 times a second and ask "is anything new for me?"
Is it possible to implement "push" instead of "pull",
subscribe-publish instead of ask-reply?
thanks
| |
| Kevin Spencer 2005-03-22, 4:03 pm |
| > I'm novice in web servers. We trying to understang, why
> we should move to Web Services.
If you have to ask, you don't need to. why? Because the horse pulls the
cart. Requirements drive your system. You aren't asking if, for example, you
should use Web Services for a particular kind of application. You're just
asking why you should move to it. Let me put it another way: You just heard
that several of your friends are having swimming pools put in in their back
yards. Now you want a swimming pool. But what are you going to do with it?
You live in an apartment!
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You S Is What You Get.
"Dmitry Sazonov" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:076501c52f0d$5d71b320$a601280a@phx.gbl...
> I'm novice in web servers. We trying to understang, why
> we should move to Web Services.
>
> now I can make web service and client, which can call
> server and receive answer.
>
> But can server send Notifications to client, if soem
> event happened? For example, is it possible to
> make "Clock" web service, which will send time update to
> interested client? Or client have to connect to server
> 1000 times a second and ask "is anything new for me?"
>
> Is it possible to implement "push" instead of "pull",
> subscribe-publish instead of ask-reply?
>
> thanks
| |
| Dmitry Sazonov 2005-03-22, 4:03 pm |
| >If you have to ask, you don't need to. why? Because the
horse pulls the
>cart. Requirements drive your system. You aren't asking
if, for example, you
>should use Web Services for a particular kind of
application. You're just
Ok, I'll change my question. We are building in-house
client server system and now it is time to decide about
platform. It need to be scailable, relaibe and very fast.
As I understand advantages of Web Services: they are self-
describing, cross-platform, DNS/URL based and easy to
develop with Visual Studio.
But if they will not be able to send information to
client... It will not be elegant, if clients will try to
connect 1000 times/second to server.
| |
| Kevin Spencer 2005-03-22, 9:01 pm |
| When you say you're building a "client server system" it tells me as much
about the system as saying that you're building a new house. There are all
kinds of houses, and there are all kinds of client server systems. Can you
tell me more about what this system is supposed to do?
A Web Service cannot SEND information without receiving a Request. A Web
Service is a set of Methods that can be called remotely. So, your clients
would need to make Method calls to the Service.
But iof you tell me more, I may be able to make an alternative
recommendation.
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You S Is What You Get.
"Dmitry Sazonov" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:07b401c52f14$85387bd0$a601280a@phx.gbl...
> horse pulls the
> if, for example, you
> application. You're just
>
> Ok, I'll change my question. We are building in-house
> client server system and now it is time to decide about
> platform. It need to be scailable, relaibe and very fast.
>
> As I understand advantages of Web Services: they are self-
> describing, cross-platform, DNS/URL based and easy to
> develop with Visual Studio.
> But if they will not be able to send information to
> client... It will not be elegant, if clients will try to
> connect 1000 times/second to server.
| |
|
| >When you say you're building a "client server system" it
tells me as much
>about the system
I did not want to load you with details.
but. Imagine server, which is doing some calculations,
receiving data from somewhere and so on. Then, at some
point, Server decided to, let say, "Buy 100 shares of
MSFT". Server need to notify client about this event.
Therefore, client need to be subscibe to this event and
wait for notifications.
This is just very simply subscribe/publish mechanism
or "push" instead of "pull". This is what I need. I'm
talking about standard event mechanim, like connection
points in COM. Is this clear enought?
My options:
1. Web services - I'd love to use it, but you said it
does not have events. I do not want to request resver
1000 times a second just to get "nothing new" answer.
2. Remoting. I read about that. First of all, it is not
cross-platform. Second - events are working only on local
networks. Basicaly, Remoting has same problems as DCOM
had before - it unable to work with NAT firewall, basic
of any network security.
3. Buy some kind of messaging software, like TIBCO. I can
not use MSMQ because it MS only, plus I'm not sure about
its performance/configuration. I do not like TIBCO
option, it has own downside, but at least it support
event notifications.
| |
| Kevin Spencer 2005-03-23, 9:00 pm |
| You might want to take a look at the new Microsoft Indigo platform. It's in
beta now, but it does exactly what you need. It is a .Net-based platform for
distributed applications.
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You S Is What You Get.
<anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:073901c52fda$96274860$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> tells me as much
>
> I did not want to load you with details.
>
> but. Imagine server, which is doing some calculations,
> receiving data from somewhere and so on. Then, at some
> point, Server decided to, let say, "Buy 100 shares of
> MSFT". Server need to notify client about this event.
> Therefore, client need to be subscibe to this event and
> wait for notifications.
>
> This is just very simply subscribe/publish mechanism
> or "push" instead of "pull". This is what I need. I'm
> talking about standard event mechanim, like connection
> points in COM. Is this clear enought?
>
> My options:
> 1. Web services - I'd love to use it, but you said it
> does not have events. I do not want to request resver
> 1000 times a second just to get "nothing new" answer.
>
> 2. Remoting. I read about that. First of all, it is not
> cross-platform. Second - events are working only on local
> networks. Basicaly, Remoting has same problems as DCOM
> had before - it unable to work with NAT firewall, basic
> of any network security.
>
> 3. Buy some kind of messaging software, like TIBCO. I can
> not use MSMQ because it MS only, plus I'm not sure about
> its performance/configuration. I do not like TIBCO
> option, it has own downside, but at least it support
> event notifications.
| |
| Kevin Spencer 2005-03-24, 4:02 pm |
| > if it in beta, how can I make "hello world" application
> wiht Indigo?
Get on the beta testing group.
Do you happens to have URL to some
> documentation?
Search the Microsoft web site.
> Is VS2005 can do someting about it
Yes! :-D
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You S Is What You Get.
"dmitry sazonov" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0be001c5307d$b665b050$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> Indigo platform. It's in
> a .Net-based platform for
>
> thanks.
> if it in beta, how can I make "hello world" application
> wiht Indigo? Do you happens to have URL to some
> documentation? Is VS2005 can do someting about it
| |
| Andy Milligan [MSFT] 2005-03-24, 9:00 pm |
| The code for a basic Indigo application is included in the recently released
March Community Technology Preview (pre-Beta) documentation set. Look at:
http://winfx.msdn.microsoft.com/lib...e0d10a10878.asp
The supporting binaries are currently available for MSDN subscribers only
but this will change:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/webservices/
--
Andy Milligan. Indigo Team.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"dmitry sazonov" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0be001c5307d$b665b050$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> Indigo platform. It's in
> a .Net-based platform for
>
> thanks.
> if it in beta, how can I make "hello world" application
> wiht Indigo? Do you happens to have URL to some
> documentation? Is VS2005 can do someting about it
| |
| Dmitry Sazonov 2005-03-29, 4:01 pm |
| >When you say you're building a "client server system" it
tells me as much
>about the system as saying that you're building a new
house.
I didn't want to load you with details.
Let say server receiving MSFT stock price updates along
with other informaiton. At some point, server can decide
to buy or sell MSFT, but server can not do it without
user approval. So, server have to send notification to
user: "I'ready to buy MSFT for this price". User hit Ok,
this signal go to server and server do something.
This is basic example when client "subscribing to event"
and server fire event when something interesiting
happened.
I have options:
1. Web service. Nice option, but it can not send event
notification and I afraid pull will not work well
2. .NET remoting. Good option too. But I read what event
notifications works only in local network, if there is
NAT firewall between client and server it became horrible
solution: server need to know IP for each client... Plus,
it is Microsoft only.
3. Buy messaging middleware, like TIBCO
| |
| Kevin Spencer 2005-03-29, 4:01 pm |
| That is why I suggested you take a look at Microsoft Indigo.
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You S Is What You Get.
"Dmitry Sazonov" <sazonov@sig.com> wrote in message
news:067501c52fcd$b9780960$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> tells me as much
> house.
>
> I didn't want to load you with details.
>
> Let say server receiving MSFT stock price updates along
> with other informaiton. At some point, server can decide
> to buy or sell MSFT, but server can not do it without
> user approval. So, server have to send notification to
> user: "I'ready to buy MSFT for this price". User hit Ok,
> this signal go to server and server do something.
>
> This is basic example when client "subscribing to event"
> and server fire event when something interesiting
> happened.
> I have options:
> 1. Web service. Nice option, but it can not send event
> notification and I afraid pull will not work well
> 2. .NET remoting. Good option too. But I read what event
> notifications works only in local network, if there is
> NAT firewall between client and server it became horrible
> solution: server need to know IP for each client... Plus,
> it is Microsoft only.
> 3. Buy messaging middleware, like TIBCO
| |
| Sazonov Dmitry 2005-03-30, 4:01 pm |
| when Indigo will became available? Is it suppose to be
part of Longhorn? I been told Longhorn will not be
released untill end of 2006...
If it true, we can not wait so long: we need to build
this applicaiton in several months.
And, last question: is this beta Indigo relaible enought?
| |
| Kevin Spencer 2005-03-30, 4:01 pm |
| You should really check up on the Microsoft web site for this information. I
do know that Indigo will be shipped separately from Longhorn, as an addition
to the .Net platform. I believe it's slated to be released by fall.
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You S Is What You Get.
"Sazonov Dmitry" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:11f501c53535$73a21cb0$a501280a@phx.gbl...
> when Indigo will became available? Is it suppose to be
> part of Longhorn? I been told Longhorn will not be
> released untill end of 2006...
>
> If it true, we can not wait so long: we need to build
> this applicaiton in several months.
>
> And, last question: is this beta Indigo relaible enought?
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