Home > Archive > MSDN > December 2005 > I used to have a professional subscription
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
I used to have a professional subscription
|
|
|
|
I used to have a professional subscription, until I finally got around to
reading the license. It turns out that I can't develop any software with
those development tools! Most of the stuff I never used, but having them
and the operating systems was handy at times.
But what good is having this stuff if I can't use it? Especially for ~
$1000/year. Does Microsoft expect me to pay all that money and write
nothing but demo software?
So I dropped the subscription and bought retail versions of the software I
use, and will never bother to learn dot net, since doing so will now cost
me not just time but money too.
Am I missing something?
| |
| Brendan Green 2005-12-13, 6:57 pm |
| Where exactly is this stated? Can you post the excerpt of the license that
you got this from?
"hey" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message
news:Xns972B9E828B32Dhey@216.196.97.136...
>
> I used to have a professional subscription, until I finally got around to
> reading the license. It turns out that I can't develop any software with
> those development tools! Most of the stuff I never used, but having them
> and the operating systems was handy at times.
>
> But what good is having this stuff if I can't use it? Especially for ~
> $1000/year. Does Microsoft expect me to pay all that money and write
> nothing but demo software?
>
> So I dropped the subscription and bought retail versions of the software I
> use, and will never bother to learn dot net, since doing so will now cost
> me not just time but money too.
>
> Am I missing something?
| |
|
| Am I totally misinterpreting this? It sounds like I cannot develop
"production" software.
=============
2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. If you comply with this agreement, for
each license you acquire, you have the rights below.
a. General. One user may install and use copies of the software to
design, develop, test and demonstrate your programs. Testing does not
include staging on a server in a production environment, such as loading
content prior to production use.
==============
"Brendan Green" <bgreen@simtap.com.au> wrote in
news:uGnYiDEAGHA.140@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:
> Where exactly is this stated? Can you post the excerpt of the license
> that you got this from?
>
> "hey" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns972B9E828B32Dhey@216.196.97.136...
>
>
>
| |
| Lawrence Groves 2005-12-14, 3:56 am |
|
"hey" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message
news:Xns972C5CE74CAhey@216.196.97.136...
>
> Am I totally misinterpreting this? It sounds like I cannot develop
> "production" software.
In a word, yes!!!
> =============
> 2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. If you comply with this agreement, for
> each license you acquire, you have the rights below.
>
> a. General. One user may install and use copies of the software to
> design, develop, test and demonstrate your programs. Testing does not
> include staging on a server in a production environment, such as loading
> content prior to production use.
> ==============
You can use the software to design, develop and test your programs. It
doesn't say anywhere that you can't then distribute *your* software and use
it in a production environment. You are not allowed to distribute/use parts
of the subscription software in such an environment, but the whole purpose
of MSDN is to allow you to do what you seem to susspect that you can't!!
HTH, Loz.
| |
|
| See what I mean? Even talking about it is confusing.
Do you mean yes, I cannot develop production software?
Or yes, I'm misinterpreting it, and I CAN develop production software?
"Lawrence Groves" <lgroves@ducost.deleteme.com> wrote in
news:#pymT8IAGHA.2656@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
>
> "hey" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns972C5CE74CAhey@216.196.97.136...
>
> In a word, yes!!!
>
>
>
> You can use the software to design, develop and test your programs. It
> doesn't say anywhere that you can't then distribute *your* software
> and use it in a production environment. You are not allowed to
> distribute/use parts of the subscription software in such an
> environment, but the whole purpose of MSDN is to allow you to do what
> you seem to susspect that you can't!!
>
> HTH, Loz.
>
>
>
>
| |
| Peter Oliphant 2005-12-14, 6:58 pm |
| I'm not a lawyer, and I've never played one on TV (actually, that's not
entirely true, I did 'play' [look like] a lawyer as a background artist on
'Deadwood' last year...hehe)...
First off, note that there is no part of the clause you listed that
restricts you from doing anything. It lists things you CAN do ("design,
develop, test and demonstrate your programs"), and says this does not
INCLUDE "staging on a server in a production environment, such as loading
content prior to production use." Technically, this is just saying this
clause doesn't GIVE you this right, but this is not the same as saying this
is disallowed. Put another way, if I gave you a contract saying our
agreement does not include paying you $100, this doesn't mean my paying you
$100 violates our contract...
Is there a clause that specifically says what you **can't** do? Or says
something like 'anything not covered is not allowed'? THOSE are the clauses
you want to ping on....
Realistically? MANY commercial products have been done using VS.NET and its
forerunners, so I'm pretty sure you're allowed to do commercial products
with this dev system...
One thing I'm not sure of though. It's possible different flavors have
different rights. For example, the Express and any educational versions
might disallow commercial development, while PRO by its very name MUST allow
such develpment ('PROfessionals' are characterized by making money for their
efforts, and one can't make money developing software one can't sell! hehe
(ok not strictly true, one could possibly get money from using some forms of
software instead of selling them, but I digress))...
Note however one could easily develop privately in a non-commercial flavor,
and when done, use the full version of one's publisher or at that point buy
the full version (hopefully with the advance form the company you sold the
product to), compile once to the 'final' commercial release version of your
application, and you are fully legal!
Finally, it's VERY likely if there IS a restriction on commercial use with
some flavors, MS will have means to test any code produced for what flavor
created it (think embedded info). Thus, if your application becomes too
commercial successful (enough that MS becomes aware of it) and you've
'cheated', they can probably find out about it by examining the
executable...
[==P==]
"Lawrence Groves" <lgroves@ducost.deleteme.com> wrote in message
news:%23pymT8IAGHA.2656@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
> "hey" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns972C5CE74CAhey@216.196.97.136...
>
> In a word, yes!!!
>
>
>
> You can use the software to design, develop and test your programs. It
> doesn't say anywhere that you can't then distribute *your* software and
> use it in a production environment. You are not allowed to distribute/use
> parts of the subscription software in such an environment, but the whole
> purpose of MSDN is to allow you to do what you seem to susspect that you
> can't!!
>
> HTH, Loz.
>
>
>
| |
|
| So to make a long story short, nobody knows. At least I don't feel stupid
now for not knowing.
Damned lawyers. They make everything so complicated that only lawyers can
understand it. Job security. And despite the high price they charge,
still it doesn't make any sense, so you have to hire them back to explain
it to you. And when nobody else gets it either, you have to hire them to
fight over it.
"Peter Oliphant" <poliphant@RoundTripInc.com> wrote in
news:uS1VLkPAGHA.2392@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:
> I'm not a lawyer, and I've never played one on TV (actually, that's
> not entirely true, I did 'play' [look like] a lawyer as a background
> artist on 'Deadwood' last year...hehe)...
>
> First off, note that there is no part of the clause you listed that
> restricts you from doing anything. It lists things you CAN do
> ("design, develop, test and demonstrate your programs"), and says this
> does not INCLUDE "staging on a server in a production environment,
> such as loading content prior to production use." Technically, this is
> just saying this clause doesn't GIVE you this right, but this is not
> the same as saying this is disallowed. Put another way, if I gave you
> a contract saying our agreement does not include paying you $100, this
> doesn't mean my paying you $100 violates our contract...
>
> Is there a clause that specifically says what you **can't** do? Or
> says something like 'anything not covered is not allowed'? THOSE are
> the clauses you want to ping on....
>
> Realistically? MANY commercial products have been done using VS.NET
> and its forerunners, so I'm pretty sure you're allowed to do
> commercial products with this dev system...
>
> One thing I'm not sure of though. It's possible different flavors have
> different rights. For example, the Express and any educational
> versions might disallow commercial development, while PRO by its very
> name MUST allow such develpment ('PROfessionals' are characterized by
> making money for their efforts, and one can't make money developing
> software one can't sell! hehe (ok not strictly true, one could
> possibly get money from using some forms of software instead of
> selling them, but I digress))...
>
> Note however one could easily develop privately in a non-commercial
> flavor, and when done, use the full version of one's publisher or at
> that point buy the full version (hopefully with the advance form the
> company you sold the product to), compile once to the 'final'
> commercial release version of your application, and you are fully
> legal!
>
> Finally, it's VERY likely if there IS a restriction on commercial use
> with some flavors, MS will have means to test any code produced for
> what flavor created it (think embedded info). Thus, if your
> application becomes too commercial successful (enough that MS becomes
> aware of it) and you've 'cheated', they can probably find out about it
> by examining the executable...
>
> [==P==]
>
> "Lawrence Groves" <lgroves@ducost.deleteme.com> wrote in message
> news:%23pymT8IAGHA.2656@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
>
>
| |
| Brendan Green 2005-12-14, 9:55 pm |
| That section is saying that you can't use software in your MSDN Subscription
to pre-load production content prior to "going live".
I seriously doubt that there is a restriction on you selling an application
that you developed, using VS that came with your subscription.
I think the big point about the licensing is that you can't, say, use your
subscription copy of SQL Server 2005 as the backend to a website that runs
your business - you can only use it to develop and test your website.
"hey" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message
news:Xns972C927AA1EAEhey@216.196.97.136...
> So to make a long story short, nobody knows. At least I don't feel stupid
> now for not knowing.
>
> Damned lawyers. They make everything so complicated that only lawyers can
> understand it. Job security. And despite the high price they charge,
> still it doesn't make any sense, so you have to hire them back to explain
> it to you. And when nobody else gets it either, you have to hire them to
> fight over it.
>
>
>
> "Peter Oliphant" <poliphant@RoundTripInc.com> wrote in
> news:uS1VLkPAGHA.2392@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:
>
>
>
>
| |
| Lawrence Groves 2005-12-15, 3:55 am |
|
"hey" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message
news:Xns972C7F610C408hey@216.196.97.136...
>
> See what I mean? Even talking about it is confusing.
>
> Do you mean yes, I cannot develop production software?
>
> Or yes, I'm misinterpreting it, and I CAN develop production software?
Exactly, your last staement is correct and what I was trying to say further
on....
[color=darkred]
> "Lawrence Groves" <lgroves@ducost.deleteme.com> wrote in
> news:#pymT8IAGHA.2656@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
>
Read this again. Its simple, no nonsense stuff. Forget the legal rubish.
This statement tells you what you CAN do with code *you* develop.
HTH, Loz.
|
|
|
|
|