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| Michael C 2005-11-21, 3:55 am |
| I was reading about how sony have 5 class action lawsuits against them for
releasing an audio CD that did dodgy things to a persons computer. It got me
thinking, in comparison to what MS did with vb6 it's fairly minor. Why
didn't MS get sued?
| |
|
| On what grounds? MS did nothing illegal...
--
Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB)
Veign's Resource Center
http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp
Veign's Blog
http://www.veign.com/blog
--
"Michael C" <mculley@NOSPAMoptushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:%23fH3Xcl7FHA.3044@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>I was reading about how sony have 5 class action lawsuits against them for
>releasing an audio CD that did dodgy things to a persons computer. It got
>me thinking, in comparison to what MS did with vb6 it's fairly minor. Why
>didn't MS get sued?
>
| |
|
| There is abuse of power, need to consult a lawyer.
Our time, our money, which amounts to huge amount, has been
intentionally abused.
I am sure lawyers can find the legal terms.
"Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message
news:uZgHZwl7FHA.3648@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> On what grounds? MS did nothing illegal...
>
> --
> Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB)
> Veign's Resource Center
> http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp
> Veign's Blog
> http://www.veign.com/blog
> --
>
>
> "Michael C" <mculley@NOSPAMoptushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:%23fH3Xcl7FHA.3044@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Tony Proctor 2005-11-21, 7:55 am |
| No sane company would try to cross swords with something the size of
Microsoft. Even the huge multinationals would think more than twice. In
particular, any company that is struggling (from a financial point of view,
not a technical one) to port their legacy code base to .Net certainly
wouldn't have the resources to push a case for loss of trust. It's a
catch-22!
Tony Proctor
"Ted" <2000@xxxmsn.com> wrote in message
news:eT0zPCo7FHA.2092@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> There is abuse of power, need to consult a lawyer.
> Our time, our money, which amounts to huge amount, has been
> intentionally abused.
> I am sure lawyers can find the legal terms.
>
>
>
> "Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message
> news:uZgHZwl7FHA.3648@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
for[color=darkred]
got[color=darkred]
Why[color=darkred]
>
>
| |
|
| On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 01:47:42 -0800, "Ted" <2000@xxxmsn.com> wrote:
>There is abuse of power, need to consult a lawyer.
>Our time, our money, which amounts to huge amount, has been
>intentionally abused.
>I am sure lawyers can find the legal terms.
Yes, I wonder how much, in total, Microsoft's cavalier attitude over
classic VB has cost the world's businesses. Anyone care to put a
figure on it? Now is the time if anyone is considering doing something
to rein in the Microsoft leviathan. The European route is probably
better, as the US legal system in the past has seemed like being
comprised of a bunch of wussies in comparison to the EU.
MM
| |
| Dan Barclay 2005-11-21, 6:55 pm |
| Stupidity and arrogance are not against the law.
Someone could still file a suit. You can sue for anything. They'd be
unlikely to win, I think, because the damage is difficult to show in court
(jurors would not understand) and it is difficult to measure in dollars.
What's more, the cost (and risk of not winning) make it unlikely any
individual shop would take it on.
However, the damage is real (and large in the aggragate). Come clever
lawyer might be able to make a class action out of it, but that's the only
way it would be worthwhile fooling with.
The best thing to do is to be darned sure you learn the lesson they taught
us, and be sure others learn it as well. You *cannot* trust MS with your
code assets. Period. This was not a one shot deal, it was only the largest
of several. It will not be the last.
Learn the lesson, warn others when appropriate.
Dan
"Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message
news:uZgHZwl7FHA.3648@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> On what grounds? MS did nothing illegal...
>
> --
> Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB)
> Veign's Resource Center
> http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp
> Veign's Blog
> http://www.veign.com/blog
> --
>
>
> "Michael C" <mculley@NOSPAMoptushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:%23fH3Xcl7FHA.3044@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
|
| "Dan Barclay" <Dan@MVPs.org> wrote in message
news:Od43XWr7FHA.4012@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Stupidity and arrogance are not against the law.
>
> Someone could still file a suit. You can sue for anything. They'd be
> unlikely to win, I think, because the damage is difficult to show in court
> (jurors would not understand) and it is difficult to measure in dollars.
> What's more, the cost (and risk of not winning) make it unlikely any
> individual shop would take it on.
You can sue over anything but that doesn't mean its a valid lawsuit or one
that you stand any chance of winning.
>
> However, the damage is real (and large in the aggragate).
I agree that damage is done but still feel nothing illegal was done on MS's
part.
> Come clever lawyer might be able to make a class action out of it, but
> that's the only way it would be worthwhile fooling with.
Class action lawsuit<bg> Where the lawyers get all the money and the
plantiffs (I guess everyone is grouped as a plantiff) get a $5 gift
certificate off any MS's product...
>
> The best thing to do is to be darned sure you learn the lesson they taught
> us, and be sure others learn it as well. You *cannot* trust MS with your
> code assets. Period. This was not a one shot deal, it was only the
> largest of several. It will not be the last.
That's the choice everyone has to make. A lawsuit is not an answer as it
will solve nothing - MS's has already stated that VB6 applications will
still work in the next release of Windows.
[color=darkred]
>
> Learn the lesson, warn others when appropriate.
>
> Dan
>
>
> "Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message
> news:uZgHZwl7FHA.3648@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
--
Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB)
Veign's Resource Center
http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp
Veign's Blog
http://www.veign.com/blog
--
| |
|
| > MS's has already stated that VB6 applications will still work in the next
> release of Windows.
Except you can't add your program to the Windows
Explorer contest menu in 64 bit, is one of things.
64 Bit could take off very fast by next year, which
will leave us behind.
Only VB and C .net can program 64 Bit at this time.
"Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message
news:uJYsQfr7FHA.2364@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> "Dan Barclay" <Dan@MVPs.org> wrote in message
> news:Od43XWr7FHA.4012@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>
> You can sue over anything but that doesn't mean its a valid lawsuit or one
> that you stand any chance of winning.
>
>
> I agree that damage is done but still feel nothing illegal was done on
> MS's part.
>
>
> Class action lawsuit<bg> Where the lawyers get all the money and the
> plantiffs (I guess everyone is grouped as a plantiff) get a $5 gift
> certificate off any MS's product...
>
>
> That's the choice everyone has to make. A lawsuit is not an answer as it
> will solve nothing - MS's has already stated that VB6 applications will
> still work in the next release of Windows.
>
>
> --
> Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB)
> Veign's Resource Center
> http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp
> Veign's Blog
> http://www.veign.com/blog
> --
>
>
| |
| Stefan Berglund 2005-11-21, 6:55 pm |
| On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:06:53 -0600, "Dan Barclay" <Dan@MVPs.org> wrote:
in <Od43XWr7FHA.4012@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>
>Stupidity and arrogance are not against the law.
>
>Someone could still file a suit. You can sue for anything. They'd be
>unlikely to win, I think, because the damage is difficult to show in court
>(jurors would not understand) and it is difficult to measure in dollars.
>What's more, the cost (and risk of not winning) make it unlikely any
>individual shop would take it on.
>
>However, the damage is real (and large in the aggragate). Come clever
>lawyer might be able to make a class action out of it, but that's the only
>way it would be worthwhile fooling with.
>
>The best thing to do is to be darned sure you learn the lesson they taught
>us, and be sure others learn it as well. You *cannot* trust MS with your
>code assets. Period. This was not a one shot deal, it was only the largest
>of several. It will not be the last.
>
>Learn the lesson, warn others when appropriate.
>
>Dan
Absolutely. Spread the word. Don't trust your code or for that matter any
other assets to Microsoft. They have demonstrated rather explicitly that they
don't care and don't hear.
---
Stefan Berglund
| |
|
| On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:54:45 +1100, "Michael C"
<mculley@NOSPAMoptushome.com.au> wrote:
>I was reading about how sony have 5 class action lawsuits against them for
>releasing an audio CD that did dodgy things to a persons computer. It got me
>thinking, in comparison to what MS did with vb6 it's fairly minor. Why
>didn't MS get sued?
Actually, the only thing that will stop 'em is competition, of which
there is very little. 20 years into the personal computing age and the
main languages are: BASIC, C and Pascal, the latter being pretty much
an also-ran. Looks like true innovation on the PC scene is pretty thin
on the ground, doesn't it?
MM
| |
|
|
"MM" <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pa34o1t6ts9kjv2iv6r36p9ffovlbf449g@
4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:54:45 +1100, "Michael C"
> <mculley@NOSPAMoptushome.com.au> wrote:
>
for[color=darkred]
me[color=darkred]
>
> Actually, the only thing that will stop 'em is competition, of which
> there is very little. 20 years into the personal computing age and the
> main languages are: BASIC, C and Pascal, the latter being pretty much
> an also-ran. Looks like true innovation on the PC scene is pretty thin
> on the ground, doesn't it?
>
> MM
"... of which there is very little."
Which is kind of weird when you consider that Windows nearest desktop
competitor is 'free'.
-ralph
| |
| Michael C 2005-11-21, 6:55 pm |
| "Tony Proctor" <tony_proctor@aimtechnology_NoMoreSPAM_.com> wrote in message
news:u4J2wSo7FHA.2364@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> No sane company would try to cross swords with something the size of
> Microsoft. Even the huge multinationals would think more than twice. In
> particular, any company that is struggling (from a financial point of
> view,
> not a technical one) to port their legacy code base to .Net certainly
> wouldn't have the resources to push a case for loss of trust. It's a
> catch-22!
Plenty of people are suing Sony over an audio CD. I'm sure MS are bigger but
both would be able to throw similar amounts of cash at lawyers.
Michael
| |
| Kevin Provance 2005-11-21, 6:55 pm |
| >> and the
plantiffs (I guess everyone is grouped as a plantiff) get a $5 gift
certificate off any MS's product... <<
Or a brand spankin' new copy of VB 2005 as a way of saying "sorry." <g>
- Kev
| |
|
| Now that would be funny.
--
Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB)
Veign's Resource Center
http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp
Veign's Blog
http://www.veign.com/blog
--
"Kevin Provance" <casey@tpasoft.com> wrote in message
news:uF5oFxu7FHA.252@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> plantiffs (I guess everyone is grouped as a plantiff) get a $5 gift
> certificate off any MS's product... <<
>
> Or a brand spankin' new copy of VB 2005 as a way of saying "sorry." <g>
>
> - Kev
>
| |
|
| >Or a brand spankin' new copy of VB 2005 as a way of saying "sorry." <g>
You meant VB 2005 Express edition.
"Kevin Provance" <casey@tpasoft.com> wrote in message
news:uF5oFxu7FHA.252@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> plantiffs (I guess everyone is grouped as a plantiff) get a $5 gift
> certificate off any MS's product... <<
>
> Or a brand spankin' new copy of VB 2005 as a way of saying "sorry." <g>
>
> - Kev
>
| |
|
| I think if a group sued them before action lawsuit lawyers
got to them, then there would be a chance.
Count me as one.
Does any of you know a experienced lawyer ?
Suing MS is a fad these days, I say might as well.
"Kevin Provance" <casey@tpasoft.com> wrote in message
news:uF5oFxu7FHA.252@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> plantiffs (I guess everyone is grouped as a plantiff) get a $5 gift
> certificate off any MS's product... <<
>
> Or a brand spankin' new copy of VB 2005 as a way of saying "sorry." <g>
>
> - Kev
>
| |
| Kevin Provance 2005-11-21, 9:55 pm |
| Can't say I do, unless a laywer wants to work either pro-bono, or gets paid
contingent on damages recovered. Maybe even ask for attorney's fees from
the judge.
Dunno, I'm not a lawyer.
In a class action ever gets filed for saomething like this, I'll sign up.
I'm not interested in money, I'd do it just for principle...and any chance
of keeping VB Classic/COM going.
- Kev
"Ted" <2000@xxxmsn.com> wrote in message
news:uUMkwww7FHA.4076@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>I think if a group sued them before action lawsuit lawyers
> got to them, then there would be a chance.
>
> Count me as one.
> Does any of you know a experienced lawyer ?
> Suing MS is a fad these days, I say might as well.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Kevin Provance" <casey@tpasoft.com> wrote in message
> news:uF5oFxu7FHA.252@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
|
| > Can't say I do, unless a laywer wants to work either pro-bono, or gets
> paid contingent on damages recovered.
Sounds good.
>I'd do it just for principle
If we win big time, Billy will be working for us :-)
"Kevin Provance" <casey@tpasoft.com> wrote in message
news:uhrH2Mx7FHA.1000@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Can't say I do, unless a laywer wants to work either pro-bono, or gets
> paid contingent on damages recovered. Maybe even ask for attorney's fees
> from the judge.
>
> Dunno, I'm not a lawyer.
>
> In a class action ever gets filed for saomething like this, I'll sign up.
> I'm not interested in money, I'd do it just for principle...and any chance
> of keeping VB Classic/COM going.
>
> - Kev
>
>
>
> "Ted" <2000@xxxmsn.com> wrote in message
> news:uUMkwww7FHA.4076@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
>
| |
| Michael C 2005-11-22, 3:55 am |
| "Ted" <2000@xxxmsn.com> wrote in message
news:u25Mekx7FHA.2040@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>
> Sounds good.
>
>
> If we win big time, Billy will be working for us :-)
And it would have all started on his own news servers :-)
Michael
| |
|
| On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:28:46 -0600, "Ralph"
<nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"MM" <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:pa34o1t6ts9kjv2iv6r36p9ffovlbf449g@
4ax.com...
>for
>me
>
>"... of which there is very little."
>
>Which is kind of weird when you consider that Windows nearest desktop
>competitor is 'free'.
I was referring to computer languages, not operating systems. And in
any case, the competition in operating systems is also pretty meagre,
Mac, Windows, Linux, and that's about it. Why didn't BE-OS catch on?
What happened to TRS-DOS? CP/M? Where *are* the innovators? Microsoft
keeps bleating about its innovative genius, then proudly comes up with
a talking paperclip. Go figure!
MM
| |
| Dan Barclay 2005-11-22, 6:55 pm |
|
"Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message
news:uJYsQfr7FHA.2364@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> "Dan Barclay" <Dan@MVPs.org> wrote in message
> news:Od43XWr7FHA.4012@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>
> You can sue over anything but that doesn't mean its a valid lawsuit or one
> that you stand any chance of winning.
It is a valid lawsuit so long as one party has been harmed by another (or
can make a reasonable claim that they have).
>
>
> I agree that damage is done but still feel nothing illegal was done on
> MS's part.
Civil suits have nothing to do with being legal or illegal. If it was
illegal, a District Attourney somewhere could file a *criminal* suit and try
to get a fine and/or send someone to jail. That money would go to the
government.
An example of a criminal suit here: <vbg>
http://www.kfdm1.com/engine.pl?stat...akoutlocal.html>> Come clever lawyer might be able to make a class action out of it, butthat's the only way it would be worthwhile fooling with.>> Class action lawsuit<bg> Where the lawyer
s get all the money and theplantiffs (I guess everyone is grouped as a plantiff) get a $5 giftcertificate off any MS's product...Right, that's the one. It gets 'em spanked, but nobody gets "made whole"except the lawyers.>>>> The best thing to do is to be
darned sure you learn the lesson theytaught us, and be sure others learn it as well. You *cannot* trust MS withyour code assets. Period. This was not a one shot deal, it was only thelargest of several. It will not be the last.>> That's the choice eve
ryone has to make. A lawsuit is not an answer as itwill solve nothing - MS's has already stated that VB6 applications willstill work in the next release of Windows.I agree that a lawsuit is not worthwhile, at least to me. It would distractme from conver
ting to Delphi.Do not count on *real* VB6 applications running much longer. I know very fewof them that rely only on the VB6 runtime and all those components are *not*considered "Microsoft". Many applications will break in the coming yearsand MS will sti
ll claim that they support the runtime.>> Learn the lesson, warn others when appropriate.I'll say that again.Dan
| |
| Stefan Berglund 2005-11-22, 6:55 pm |
| On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:01:03 +0000, MM <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
in <8u86o11h1si0sdg1dbq3qk7l3bdl245b62@4ax.com>
>On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:28:46 -0600, "Ralph"
><nt_consulting64@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>I was referring to computer languages, not operating systems. And in
>any case, the competition in operating systems is also pretty meagre,
>Mac, Windows, Linux, and that's about it. Why didn't BE-OS catch on?
>What happened to TRS-DOS? CP/M? Where *are* the innovators? Microsoft
>keeps bleating about its innovative genius, then proudly comes up with
>a talking paperclip. Go figure!
>
>MM
Microsoft has always been and will always be all about marketing smoke and
mirrors. They will NEVER be about substance.
---
Stefan Berglund
| |
|
| >stated that VB6 applications willstill work in the next release of
>Windows.I agree that a lawsuit is not >worthwhile, at least to me.
It does not work fully in 64 Bit operating systems.
All 32 bit programs will be limited in 64 Bit computers.
You can't add your 32 program menu in Windows Explorer
context menu.
No matter what you do the menu will not show up.
I sent my DLL to Microsoft to fix it (paid support), and
they couldn't make it work. You have to compile the DLL
in 64 bit programming language for it to work.
Can't find a 64 bit programmer that will do it for me either.
Not only VB, but most programs have limited functions in 64 bit.
Not even Microsoft programs.
Example:
You can't add 32Bit Word Spell Check in 64 Bit Outlook Express.
"Dan Barclay" <Dan@MVPs.org> wrote in message
news:em1fjF47FHA.3880@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>
> "Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message
> news:uJYsQfr7FHA.2364@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>
> It is a valid lawsuit so long as one party has been harmed by another (or
> can make a reasonable claim that they have).
>
>
> Civil suits have nothing to do with being legal or illegal. If it was
> illegal, a District Attourney somewhere could file a *criminal* suit and
> try to get a fine and/or send someone to jail. That money would go to the
> government.
>
> An example of a criminal suit here: <vbg>
>
> http://www.kfdm1.com/engine.pl?stat...akoutlocal.html>>
> Come clever lawyer might be able to make a class action out of it,
> butthat's the only way it would be worthwhile fooling with.>> Class action
> lawsuit<bg> Where the lawyers get all the money and theplantiffs (I guess
> everyone is grouped as a plantiff) get a $5 giftcertificate off any MS's
> product...Right, that's the one. It gets 'em spanked, but nobody gets
> "made whole"except the lawyers.>>>> The best thing to do is to be darned
> sure you learn the lesson theytaught us, and be sure others learn it as
> well. You *cannot* trust MS withyour code assets. Period. This was not
> a one shot deal, it was only thelargest of several. It will not be the
> last.>> That's the choice everyone has to make. A lawsuit is not an
> answer as itwill solve nothing - MS's has already stated that VB6
> applications willstill work in the next release of Windows.I agree that a
> lawsuit is not worthwhile, at least to me. It would distractme from
> converting to Delphi.Do not count on *real* VB6 applications running much
> longer. I know very fewof them that rely only on the VB6 runtime and all
> those components are *not*considered "Microsoft". Many applications will
> break in the coming yearsand MS will still claim that they support the
> runtime.>> Learn the lesson, warn others when appropriate.I'll say that
> again.Dan
>
| |
|
| > And it would have all started on his own news servers :-)
Microsoft looks at as entertaining.
They make so much money, its all tax deductible,
they need to be sued to lower their income tax bracket.
Might as well give the money to VB programmers.
VB programmers contribute quite a bit to help others,
which made VB so invite-able the past ten years.
"Michael C" <mculley@NOSPAMoptushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:%23dZrGVy7FHA.2676@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> "Ted" <2000@xxxmsn.com> wrote in message
> news:u25Mekx7FHA.2040@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>
> And it would have all started on his own news servers :-)
>
> Michael
>
| |
|
| On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:06:53 -0600, "Dan Barclay" <Dan@MVPs.org>
wrote:
>Stupidity and arrogance are not against the law.
>
>Someone could still file a suit. You can sue for anything. They'd be
>unlikely to win, I think, because the damage is difficult to show in court
>(jurors would not understand) and it is difficult to measure in dollars.
>What's more, the cost (and risk of not winning) make it unlikely any
>individual shop would take it on.
>
>However, the damage is real (and large in the aggragate). Come clever
>lawyer might be able to make a class action out of it, but that's the only
>way it would be worthwhile fooling with.
>
>The best thing to do is to be darned sure you learn the lesson they taught
>us, and be sure others learn it as well. You *cannot* trust MS with your
>code assets. Period. This was not a one shot deal, it was only the largest
>of several. It will not be the last.
>
>Learn the lesson, warn others when appropriate.
This explains the symptoms of what is going wrong:
http://tinyurl.com/9wjqf
MM
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