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Google does Smalltalk
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| panu@nospam.com 2007-03-16, 8:30 am |
| Google is sponsoring Squeak!
(see a previous post on "Squeak -
for a different Summer of Code!").
Exciting news indeed.
Every dynamic language needs a big daddy.
IBM quit Smalltalk a long time ago.
Microsoft is said to be "interested in Ruby",
with Python in its pocket. Sun does Groovy &
other scripting languages.
Google needs to pick a winner. So let it be
Smalltalk. An online, web-browser -based IDE
that allows anybody to code and share Smalltalk,
online.
-Panu Viljamaa
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| Victor Goldberg 2007-03-19, 7:20 pm |
| Hi Panu,
Do you have references?
Where to go if we want to learn more about this?
Thanks,
Victor
========================================
=
panu@nospam.com wrote:
> Google is sponsoring Squeak!
> (see a previous post on "Squeak -
> for a different Summer of Code!").
>
> Exciting news indeed.
>
> Every dynamic language needs a big daddy.
> IBM quit Smalltalk a long time ago.
> Microsoft is said to be "interested in Ruby",
> with Python in its pocket. Sun does Groovy &
> other scripting languages.
>
> Google needs to pick a winner. So let it be
> Smalltalk. An online, web-browser -based IDE
> that allows anybody to code and share Smalltalk,
> online.
>
> -Panu Viljamaa
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| gregarican 2007-03-19, 7:20 pm |
| On Mar 19, 2:53 pm, Victor Goldberg <vmgoldb...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Hi Panu,
>
> Do you have references?
> Where to go if we want to learn more about this?
>
> Thanks,
> Victor
>
> ========================================
=
>
>
>
> p...@nospam.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
What about googling Google? I think this might cause a rip in the
fabric of the universe itself :-)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...+Summer+of+Code
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| Victor Goldberg wrote:
> Do you have references?
> Where to go if we want to learn more about this?
No more than what we know about Google Summer of Code.
But the idea is exciting. We know that Sun is
currently 'very' interested in dynamic languages
(project phobos for instance). And we get news
about MS having similar interests.
All such news make me wonder: don't they get it?
They should choose Smalltalk, for their own good.
-Panu Viljamaa
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| panu wrote:
> All such news make me wonder: don't they get it?
> They should choose Smalltalk, for their own good.
On second thought I think I know the answer.
These companies aren't interested in providing the
best devtools per se, but the tools that bring in
the most existing programmers - JavaScript, Python,
PHP, etc.
> -Panu Viljamaa
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| Marten 2007-03-26, 4:15 am |
| On 27 Mrz., 05:02, panu <p...@nospam.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
> panu wrote:
>
> On second thought I think I know the answer.
>
> These companies aren't interested in providing the
> best devtools per se, but the tools that bring in
> the most existing programmers - JavaScript, Python,
> PHP, etc.
>
Knowing this, one could talk about how to change
Smalltalk to become more mainstream ... that would
lead to several points:
- platform independent GUI using native widgets
- software libraries in Smalltalk - interchangable
with other programming languages ...
- protocol or interface concept
On the other hand these companies will spend millions
of millions to change existing languages like C# or
Java to make them as dynamic as they can do.
Marten
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| David Stanek 2007-03-26, 10:10 pm |
| On Mar 26, 3:05 am, "Marten" <mar...@toppoint.de> wrote:
>
> Knowing this, one could talk about how to change
> Smalltalk to become more mainstream ... that would
> lead to several points:
>
> - platform independent GUI using native widgets
>
> - software libraries in Smalltalk - interchangable
> with other programming languages ...
>
> - protocol or interface concept
>
> On the other hand these companies will spend millions
> of millions to change existing languages like C# or
> Java to make them as dynamic as they can do.
>
> Marten
I am a newbie to the language. My intent is to learn it to expand on
my Object Oriented views. What a find a lacking is the amount of Open
Source projecs implemented in SmallTalk. Maybe I am not looking in the
right places, but SourceForge only has 73 entries when searching for
smalltalk.
The way I learn best is go through a quick tutorial and the start
doing something useful. But the projects on SF that I am interested in
have not been active in years.
David
http://www.traceback.org
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| gregarican 2007-03-26, 10:10 pm |
| On Mar 26, 9:18 pm, "David Stanek" <roni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 26, 3:05 am, "Marten" <mar...@toppoint.de> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am a newbie to the language. My intent is to learn it to expand on
> my Object Oriented views. What a find a lacking is the amount of Open
> Source projecs implemented in SmallTalk. Maybe I am not looking in the
> right places, but SourceForge only has 73 entries when searching for
> smalltalk.
>
> The way I learn best is go through a quick tutorial and the start
> doing something useful. But the projects on SF that I am interested in
> have not been active in years.
>
> Davidhttp://www.traceback.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Squeak is an open source Smalltalk implementation that should have
projects out there to review the code. Plus the Smalltalk image itself
and all of its packages is a great source for code review. In terms of
documentation I'd suggest checking eBay for used books. That's what I
did. I have a small shelf with 8 older Smalltalk books that are
invaluable resources. Not just for Smalltalk either. For other OO
language development work I do from time to time...
| |
| Steven Kelly 2007-03-27, 4:23 am |
| "David Stanek" <roninds@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174958291.318218.112060@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> I am a newbie to the language. My intent is to learn it to expand on
> my Object Oriented views. What a find a lacking is the amount of
> Open
> Source projecs implemented in SmallTalk. Maybe I am not looking in
> the
> right places, but SourceForge only has 73 entries when searching for
> smalltalk.
>
> The way I learn best is go through a quick tutorial and the start
> doing something useful. But the projects on SF that I am interested
> in
> have not been active in years.
Smalltalk had open source long before SourceForge, so the community
tends to have its own collections of such projects. The oldest I know
is the Manchester archives, which I think was moved to UIUC:
http://st-www.cs.uiuc.edu/. The projects there however stop around
VisualWorks 3.0, 1998-2000, since the next versions of VisualWorks
included their own version management system, StORE. A public Store
repository was set up by Cincom, and most VisualWorks open source
development happens there:
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/Cinc...SQL+Access+Page
There are currently over 3,000 packages there.
Other Smalltalk dialects have their own collections, e.g. Squeak has
SqueakMap: http://map.squeak.org/ with over 600 packages.
However, I wouldn't recommend looking at open source to learn a
language or OO, unless you can find an experienced mentor who can
suggest something suitably well-written and suitable for learning
from. Better is to look at the tutorials that accompany the products.
VisualWorks has some rather nice ones, including Ivan Tomek's
Introduction to VisualWorks Smalltalk.
Hope this helps,
Steve
--
Steven Kelly, CTO, MetaCase,
http://www.metacase.com/blogs/stevek/blogView
"The most significant innovation over the next 10 years"
Bill Gates on Domain-Specific Modeling,
www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=9166
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| Marten wrote:
> Knowing this, one could talk about how to change
> Smalltalk to become more mainstream ... that would
> lead to several points:
>
> - platform independent GUI using native widgets
Good point.
I've advocated this before and still will:
Let the web-browser be your GUI. It has
its own *declarative* language for describing
the GUI, known to hundreds of millions of designers,
who can create a better look I ever could. Detach
the implementation from the interface. Detach the GUI
from the application. Like JAVA, I believe Smalltalk
will and can, only, rule on the server side.
(unless, and until it is, and will be, implemented
as a standard browser-scripting language)
> - software libraries in Smalltalk - interchangable
> with other programming languages ...
How would you do this? Via web-services perhaps.
If we could make a simple mapping from Smalltalk
objects and classes and methods to WSDL, there
might be a away. It all must be EASY to use,
to catch a fire.
I've previously proposed using the standard
ST naming convention like aMethod: aClass
to indicate the allowable argument types of
a method, and similarly for return types.
There are other proposals for "ST interfaces"
out there. Interfacing is the key.
>
> - protocol or interface concept
This is the crux of the matter, describing
rules of interaction, rules of interface.
I think United Nations is on to this too.
Smalltalk needs to implement the XML-based
rules of interaction in a nimble way. There's
room for improvement in those standards.
I believe. We just can't do it alone.
> On the other hand these companies will spend millions
> of millions to change existing languages like C# or
> Java to make them as dynamic as they can do.
Why? For keeping their programmer-base.
We can Read: Programmers rule.
-Panu Viljamaa
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