Home > Archive > Fortran > September 2005 > NEWBIE QUESTION
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
|
|
| richard symonds 2005-09-28, 7:00 pm |
| I am new to this group and looking for a charter or description of what is
welcome and not welcome here. My questions will be very specific, but
probably very elementary, and this may not be the appropriate venue. I
learned my FORTRAN a long time ago, but until recently have only used it in
console mode and with very little more advanced than what I learned way back
then.
Is there a better place for me to participate? For example, today I
realized that a "C" in column 1 is not recognized as a comment in F90. Had
me baffled for about 10 minutes until I stumbled across the answer in an
online manual.
Thank you.
Rich
| |
| Duane Bozarth 2005-09-28, 7:00 pm |
| richard symonds wrote:
>
> I am new to this group and looking for a charter or description of what is
> welcome and not welcome here. My questions will be very specific, but
> probably very elementary, and this may not be the appropriate venue. I
> learned my FORTRAN a long time ago, but until recently have only used it in
> console mode and with very little more advanced than what I learned way back
> then.
>
> Is there a better place for me to participate?
No...this is the place for Fortran-related stuff...
> ...For example, today I
> realized that a "C" in column 1 is not recognized as a comment in F90. Had
> me baffled for about 10 minutes until I stumbled across the answer in an
> online manual.
That's not <quite> correct--it isn't exactly F90, it's free source form
as opposed to fixed source form although free source form was introduced
in F90. You can write F90/95-compliant Fortran in traditional fixed
format source form. (Although I think the free source form is much more
readable in general).
| |
| Richard Maine 2005-09-28, 7:00 pm |
| In article <hGE_e.17733$L45.9236@fe07.lga>,
"richard symonds" <richardsymonds@charter.net> wrote:
> I am new to this group and looking for a charter or description of what is
> welcome and not welcome here....
> Is there a better place for me to participate?
As Duane says, this is the place for Fortran questions. We see all kinds
of levels of question here, from the most elementary, to ones that stump
the experts.
There are some kinds of questions that are better directed at specific
vendors - things like installation or other support issues with a
particular vendor's product. People will often try to answer those here
anyway, but sometimes you really need to go to the vendor. The group
tends to stick more with questions about the language in general; that's
not a hard "rule" - exceptions abound, but it is the general tendency.
And sometimes there are things that are better done by reading in a
textbook, either because the matters require more elaboration than is
likely to be put in a message here, or because a series of questions
about the same area suggests that it would be better to learn the
underlying principles instead of just single-point answers.
Ask away.
| |
| John Harper 2005-09-28, 9:57 pm |
| In article <433B1C69.21F1152@swko.dot.net>,
Duane Bozarth <dp_bozarth@swko.dot.net> wrote:
>richard symonds wrote:
>
>That's not <quite> correct--it isn't exactly F90, it's free source form
>as opposed to fixed source form although free source form was introduced
>in F90. You can write F90/95-compliant Fortran in traditional fixed
>format source form. (Although I think the free source form is much more
>readable in general).
True. But Richard may not yet know that some compilers assume a program
name ending .f is in fixed source form, but in .f90 is free source form.
Some compilers have options like -free or -fixed for specifying it.
But that is a matter explained in a particular compiler's documentation;
it's not part of Fortran itself.
Comp.lang.fortran is also a good place for asking about particular
compilers and operating systems, though if you think you have found a
bug in a compiler it's a good idea to raise it first with your local
Fortran expert, if any, then with the compiler vendor. If it's not
clear whether it really is a bug, many people ask here. I have done
that more than once, and the answers have helped a lot. Several c.l.f
contributors are real experts, like standard-editors and compiler-
writers, and they often explain things much more clearly than the f95
standard does. It gets really interesting when they disagree:-)
John Harper, School of Mathematics, Statistics and Computer Science,
Victoria University, PO Box 600, Wellington, New Zealand
e-mail john.harper@vuw.ac.nz phone (+64)(4)463 5341 fax (+64)(4)463 5045
| |
| Duane Bozarth 2005-09-28, 9:57 pm |
| John Harper wrote:
>
> In article <433B1C69.21F1152@swko.dot.net>,
> Duane Bozarth <dp_bozarth@swko.dot.net> wrote:
>
> True. But Richard may not yet know that some compilers assume a program
> name ending .f is in fixed source form, but in .f90 is free source form.
> Some compilers have options like -free or -fixed for specifying it.
> But that is a matter explained in a particular compiler's documentation;
> it's not part of Fortran itself.
Good point, John. If I had been thinking I would have pointed that
out....
| |
| Steven G. Kargl 2005-09-28, 9:57 pm |
| In article <hGE_e.17733$L45.9236@fe07.lga>,
"richard symonds" <richardsymonds@charter.net> writes:
> I am new to this group and looking for a charter or description of what is
> welcome and not welcome here. My questions will be very specific, but
> probably very elementary, and this may not be the appropriate venue. I
> learned my FORTRAN a long time ago, but until recently have only used it in
> console mode and with very little more advanced than what I learned way back
> then.
>
> Is there a better place for me to participate? For example, today I
> realized that a "C" in column 1 is not recognized as a comment in F90. Had
> me baffled for about 10 minutes until I stumbled across the answer in an
> online manual.
>
In general, I find the signal-to-noise ratio in c.l.f to be quite
good. Anything from basic questions to questions concerning
dusty corners of the Fortran standard are welcomed here (particularly
if the poster demonstrates that she/he tried to find an answer
prior to posting).
Since you're coming back to Fortran after what appears to be a
long hiatus, I'll suggest that you visit www.fortran.com. Look
in the left hand column for "Tutorials".
--
Steve
http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~kargl/
| |
|
| Thanks for the help and the welcome. I am working with Compaq Visual
Fortran 6.6a inside developer studio. I had the .F90 and changed it to
..f and was able to retain "C" in column one rather than replace with
"!". I could not just rename but had to create a new workspace and new
project with the correct properties. Possibly overkill, but I could
find no way to change those properties. (Yes, I am new to the
develepor studio also, and I will likely be moving over to .NET and a
different Fortran compiler in the future.)
I was copying some old subroutines to make standalones in a different
project.
| |
| Michael Metcalf 2005-09-29, 6:59 pm |
|
"Rich" <richardsymonds@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1127998222.394497.44400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the help and the welcome. I am working with Compaq Visual
> Fortran 6.6a inside developer studio. I had the .F90 and changed it to
> .f and was able to retain "C" in column one rather than replace with
> "!". I could not just rename but had to create a new workspace and new
> project with the correct properties. Possibly overkill, but I could
> find no way to change those properties. (Yes, I am new to the
> develepor studio also, and I will likely be moving over to .NET and a
> different Fortran compiler in the future.)
>
> I was copying some old subroutines to make standalones in a different
> project.
>
If you're using an f95 compiler and planning to write new code, then you're
better off using the new source form exclusively. If you have to deal with a
small amount of old code too, then you can convert it easily to the new
source form, for instance with the program at
ftp.numerical.rl.ac.uk/pub/MRandC/convert.f90 .
Best of luck,
Mike Metcalf
| |
| Duane Bozarth 2005-09-29, 6:59 pm |
| Rich wrote:
>
> Thanks for the help and the welcome. I am working with Compaq Visual
> Fortran 6.6a inside developer studio. I had the .F90 and changed it to
> .f and was able to retain "C" in column one rather than replace with
> "!". I could not just rename but had to create a new workspace and new
> project with the correct properties. Possibly overkill, but I could
> find no way to change those properties. (Yes, I am new to the
> develepor studio also, and I will likely be moving over to .NET and a
> different Fortran compiler in the future.)
>
> I was copying some old subroutines to make standalones in a different
> project.
It's there, just a little hard to find amongst all the other trees... :)
Under Project/Settings select the source file in the project tree. Then
in the Fortran tab there's a setting for Source Form. That will be
specific to the single file if you have mixed.
If you select the Project instead of a single file, then you get
additional pages in the settings dialog, but under Fortran there's the
same choice of source form which can be made global to the project.
These can be changed ad hoc w/o creating new projects, etc., ...
| |
| Jugoslav Dujic 2005-09-29, 6:59 pm |
| Rich wrote:
| Thanks for the help and the welcome. I am working with Compaq Visual
| Fortran 6.6a inside developer studio. I had the .F90 and changed it to
| .f and was able to retain "C" in column one rather than replace with
| "!". I could not just rename but had to create a new workspace and new
| project with the correct properties. Possibly overkill, but I could
| find no way to change those properties. (Yes, I am new to the
| develepor studio also, and I will likely be moving over to .NET and a
| different Fortran compiler in the future.)
You can't change the properties of an existing file within the project,
but you can:
* delete the old one by hitting "Del" in FileView
* add new one(s) by
- right-clicking the project in FileView and selecting
"Add Files to Project"
- using Project/Add to Project/Files...
The "folders" within FileView are purely virtual, i.e. they can help
you logically group the source files, but you cannot add an existing
file system folder to it (directory).
--
Jugoslav
___________
www.xeffort.com
Please reply to the newsgroup.
You can find my real e-mail on my home page above.
| |
|
| I have to deal mostly with old code. And I am not allowed to convert
it for release - only for testing and my own use - so I am stuck with
having to work with old and new.
| |
|
| Duane's suggestion works for me - I do not need to delete the old one -
I can change the properties of the existing file in the project - the
default was to use the file name to select the fortran format type
| |
| Duane Bozarth 2005-09-29, 6:59 pm |
| Jugoslav Dujic wrote:
>
> Rich wrote:
> | Thanks for the help and the welcome. I am working with Compaq Visual
> | Fortran 6.6a inside developer studio. I had the .F90 and changed it to
> | .f and was able to retain "C" in column one rather than replace with
> | "!". I could not just rename but had to create a new workspace and new
> | project with the correct properties. Possibly overkill, but I could
> | find no way to change those properties. (Yes, I am new to the
> | develepor studio also, and I will likely be moving over to .NET and a
> | different Fortran compiler in the future.)
>
> You can't change the properties of an existing file within the project,
> but you can:
....
You don't need to change the properties of the file itself, simply apply
the compiler options to the specific file(s) or the project
generically. This is done by either selecting individual files or the
project in the source tree in the project settings dialog.
| |
| Jugoslav Dujic 2005-09-29, 6:59 pm |
| Duane Bozarth wrote:
| Jugoslav Dujic wrote:
||
|| Rich wrote:
||| Thanks for the help and the welcome. I am working with Compaq Visual
||| Fortran 6.6a inside developer studio. I had the .F90 and changed it to
||| .f and was able to retain "C" in column one rather than replace with
||| "!". I could not just rename but had to create a new workspace and new
||| project with the correct properties. Possibly overkill, but I could
||| find no way to change those properties. (Yes, I am new to the
||| develepor studio also, and I will likely be moving over to .NET and a
||| different Fortran compiler in the future.)
||
|| You can't change the properties of an existing file within the project,
|| but you can:
| ...
|
| You don't need to change the properties of the file itself, simply apply
| the compiler options to the specific file(s) or the project
| generically. This is done by either selecting individual files or the
| project in the source tree in the project settings dialog.
Learn something new every day... I didn't know it was possible in this way.
However, changing the source form for the extension is IMO a recipe for
confusion. It's easier to conform to the de facto standard (.f90 for
freeform, .for or .f for fixed-form) than to port to other compilers and
fiddle with compiler options. And this is only the most trivial example.
--
Jugoslav
___________
www.xeffort.com
Please reply to the newsgroup.
You can find my real e-mail on my home page above.
| |
| beliavsky@aol.com 2005-09-29, 6:59 pm |
| Rich wrote:
> Thanks for the help and the welcome. I am working with Compaq Visual
> Fortran 6.6a inside developer studio. I had the .F90 and changed it to
> .f and was able to retain "C" in column one rather than replace with
> "!". I could not just rename but had to create a new workspace and new
> project with the correct properties. Possibly overkill, but I could
> find no way to change those properties. (Yes, I am new to the
> develepor studio also, and I will likely be moving over to .NET and a
> different Fortran compiler in the future.)
Since you are new to c.l.f., I would like to make a suggestion. If you
post questions specific to a particular compiler, especially its IDE,
you should title the message as such, for example "problem with Fortran
source format using Developer Studio". Many c.l.f. readers don't use
Developer Studio and would like to bypass such messages.
I think Compaq Visual Fortran questions are considered on-topic at the
Intel Visual Fortran Forum
http://softwareforums.intel.com/ids/board?board.id=5 .
| |
| Duane Bozarth 2005-09-29, 6:59 pm |
| Jugoslav Dujic wrote:
>
....
> Learn something new every day... I didn't know it was possible in this way.
>
> However, changing the source form for the extension is IMO a recipe for
> confusion. It's easier to conform to the de facto standard (.f90 for
> freeform, .for or .f for fixed-form) than to port to other compilers and
> fiddle with compiler options. And this is only the most trivial example.
....
In general I can't argue w/ that, Jugoslav... :)
But, in defense of this alternative for such items, if one is building a
project in the IDE, it all gets handled there "automagically" so it
becomes essentially a part of the project definition. It has always
seemed to me that there is sort of an implicit implication that if one
is building a project in CVF using VS that wide-spread porting isn't a
priority.
| |
| Duane Bozarth 2005-09-29, 6:59 pm |
| beliavsky@aol.com wrote:
>
....
> Since you are new to c.l.f., I would like to make a suggestion. If you
> post questions specific to a particular compiler, especially its IDE,
> you should title the message as such, for example "problem with Fortran
> source format using Developer Studio". Many c.l.f. readers don't use
> Developer Studio and would like to bypass such messages.
....
Not a bad suggestion other than I suspect at that point Richard didn't
really know there was much specific to the compiler in the
question/comment... :)
And, in reality, the question as posed was pretty much generic to all
F90 compilers. It was only when responders addressed the specific
compiler/IDE in followups did it really become CVF-specific.
| |
| Jugoslav Dujic 2005-09-29, 6:59 pm |
| Duane Bozarth wrote:
| Jugoslav Dujic wrote:
||
| ...
|| Learn something new every day... I didn't know it was possible in this way.
||
|| However, changing the source form for the extension is IMO a recipe for
|| confusion. It's easier to conform to the de facto standard (.f90 for
|| freeform, .for or .f for fixed-form) than to port to other compilers and
|| fiddle with compiler options. And this is only the most trivial example. ...
|
| In general I can't argue w/ that, Jugoslav... :)
|
| But, in defense of this alternative for such items, if one is building a
| project in the IDE, it all gets handled there "automagically" so it
| becomes essentially a part of the project definition. It has always
| seemed to me that there is sort of an implicit implication that if one
| is building a project in CVF using VS that wide-spread porting isn't a
| priority.
In general I can't argue w/ that, Duane... :-)
Take myself for an example :-). Although I do advocate following the
standards as much as possible, I mostly don't practice what I preach;
I unhumbly consider myself as a "Master of Tweaks in VF".
--
Jugoslav
___________
www.xeffort.com
Please reply to the newsgroup.
You can find my real e-mail on my home page above.
| |
|
| Sorry - we did change topic somewhat, but still in the context of my
original "wandering". Should I go to the Intel forum first in future.
| |
| Dick Hendrickson 2005-09-29, 6:59 pm |
| In-Reply-To: <1128011957.018983.182520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <BXU_e.338563$5N3.33222@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 9c2f4a8c1260dc48654d6ceee30c320c
X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net
X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1128012641 9c2f4a8c1260dc48654d6ceee30c320c (Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:50:41 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:50:41 GMT
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:50:41 GMT
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com comp.lang.fortran:137682
Rich wrote:
> Sorry - we did change topic somewhat, but still in the context of my
> original "wandering". Should I go to the Intel forum first in future.
>
It depends, but probably not. If you're sure you have an
Intel specific question, like "how do I get at free source
form in their IDE", sure. But, if it's related to Fortran
("what does this error message mean?" "how do I create file
names?", ...) it's probably better
to ask here. If nothing else, you'll get a wide variety
of answers, ranging from "you need a comma in column 17" to
"you shouldn't be using matrix multiply". Much more
interesting, unless you're in a hurry. ;)
Dick Hendrickson
| |
| Duane Bozarth 2005-09-29, 6:59 pm |
| Rich wrote:
>
> Sorry - we did change topic somewhat, but still in the context of my
> original "wandering". Should I go to the Intel forum first in future.
Not unless you know for sure it is compiler-specific would I say that
was necessary--and "thread drift" is a fact w/ usenet and as to this
particular thread, it remained directly on the issue.
In fact, I pointed out that the original question/comment wasn't
compiler-specific at all, but a general feature of F90 compilers. It
makes no sense to be so topic-conscious (and clf isn't, anyway, in
general) as to expect to move to another forum to follow up on an
original post w/ some compiler-specific info.
For one thing, another long-time participant and CVF user learned
something he didn't know, an always useful side effect.... :)
|
|
|
|
|