Cobol - inherited cobol app., can't run (xm.exe)?

Author

inherited cobol app., can't run (xm.exe)?

2008-03-08, 6:55 pm

Hello. I agreed to take on a COBOL conversion project. I am trying to
run the customer's cobol project (it's called COBEST). It is looking
for a program called XM.exe. I don't have this on my system. Anyone
know where I can get this?

Rick Smith

2008-03-09, 3:57 am

"KJ" <n_o_s_p_a__m@mail.com> wrote in message
news:465b2ca6-3900-41e1-a6eb-0f60b8bb33bf@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> Hello. I agreed to take on a COBOL conversion project. I am trying to
> run the customer's cobol project (it's called COBEST). It is looking
> for a program called XM.exe. I don't have this on my system. Anyone
> know where I can get this?

XM.EXE is the extended memory manager for 16-bit
Micro Focus COBOL. It is used to allow access to
as much as 16 megabytes of memory. Its default
location is C:\COBOL\EXEDLL.

2008-03-09, 3:57 am

On Mar 9, 12:01 am, "Rick Smith" <ricksm...@mfi.net> wrote:
> "KJ" <n_o_s_p_a...@mail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:465b2ca6-3900-41e1-a6eb-0f60b8bb33bf@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> XM.EXE is the extended memory manager for 16-bit
> Micro Focus COBOL. It is used to allow access to
> as much as 16 megabytes of memory. Its default
> location is C:\COBOL\EXEDLL.

Thanks for the reply Rick.

To say I am in the dark on this project would be a massive
understatement.
You've shed the first light and I thank you.

I have many more questions. First is, where might I get a copy of this
program? I have been given:

* .GNT files
* Cobol data files (no file extension -- named by the entity they
hold, paired with matching .IDX file)
* Exe and batch files (for the COBEX construction management program)

Do I need a copy of DOS too?

Rick Smith

2008-03-09, 3:57 am

"KJ" <n_o_s_p_a__m@mail.com> wrote in message
news:3e8041b2-c5ff-465b-af2f-3da5aff45ccc@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 9, 12:01 am, "Rick Smith" <ricksm...@mfi.net> wrote:
news:465b2ca6-3900-41e1-a6eb-0f60b8bb33bf@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>
> Thanks for the reply Rick.
>
> To say I am in the dark on this project would be a massive
> understatement.
> You've shed the first light and I thank you.
>
> I have many more questions. First is, where might I get a copy of this
> program? I have been given:
>
> * .GNT files
> * Cobol data files (no file extension -- named by the entity they
> hold, paired with matching .IDX file)
> * Exe and batch files (for the COBEX construction management program)

You get a copy of XM from the same computer from which
the GNT, data, and other files came. XM versions match
Micro Focus COBOL versions; though the version numbers
are not identical. For example, COBOL 3.2.24 came with
XM 1.4.6. Using a version of XM that predates the COBOL
version may not work.

> Do I need a copy of DOS too?

XM runs on Windows 95, 98, etc, and Windows NT,
2000, etc,; though probably not Vista and maybe not XP.

2008-03-09, 3:57 am

On Mar 9, 2:14 am, "Rick Smith" <ricksm...@mfi.net> wrote:
> "KJ" <n_o_s_p_a...@mail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3e8041b2-c5ff-465b-af2f-3da5aff45ccc@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> On Mar 9, 12:01 am, "Rick Smith" <ricksm...@mfi.net> wrote:
>
> news:465b2ca6-3900-41e1-a6eb-0f60b8bb33bf@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You get a copy of XM from the same computer from which
> the GNT, data, and other files came. XM versions match
> Micro Focus COBOL versions; though the version numbers
> are not identical. For example, COBOL 3.2.24 came with
> XM 1.4.6. Using a version of XM that predates the COBOL
> version may not work.
>
>
> XM runs on Windows 95, 98, etc, and Windows NT,
> 2000, etc,; though probably not Vista and maybe not XP.

I will try to get those files from the client's desktop. He seems to
be running it on Windows XP (I need to take a closer look -- this was
only my first visit).

Couple quick questions:

* Can .GNT files be decompiled?
* What is the purpose of the IDX file -- some kind of index into the
main data file?
* Are the data files parseable without knowing the record definitions?
I tried a tool from Siber which did a so-so job of displaying the
data. I'm sure there's some rules to doing it, but I surely don't know
them.
* Is there a tutorial online where I can learn how to read data
properly out of these files? I can see some things which look familiar
in there, but others do not (I'm using a hex text editor -- notepad++
actually)

Thanks so much for your experience on this topic.

-KJ

Rick Smith

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

"KJ" <n_o_s_p_a__m@mail.com> wrote in message
news:0457479f-d85a-43da-bd2f-51861fcee256@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 9, 2:14 am, "Rick Smith" <ricksm...@mfi.net> wrote:
news:3e8041b2-c5ff-465b-af2f-3da5aff45ccc@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> On
Mar 9, 12:01 am, "Rick Smith" <ricksm...@mfi.net> wrote:[color=darkred]
news:465b2ca6-3900-41e1-a6eb-0f60b8bb33bf@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
to[color=darkred]
looking[color=darkred]
Anyone[color=darkred]
>
> I will try to get those files from the client's desktop. He seems to
> be running it on Windows XP (I need to take a closer look -- this was
> only my first visit).
>
> Couple quick questions:
>
> * Can .GNT files be decompiled?

GNT is machine language. It may be disassembled; but not
decompiled.

> * What is the purpose of the IDX file -- some kind of index into the
> main data file?

Yes, but it may contain multiple indexes based on several
key fields.

> * Are the data files parseable without knowing the record definitions?
> I tried a tool from Siber which did a so-so job of displaying the
> data. I'm sure there's some rules to doing it, but I surely don't know
> them.

Some have used ParseRat:
< http://www.guysoftware.com/parserat.htm >

> * Is there a tutorial online where I can learn how to read data
> properly out of these files? I can see some things which look familiar
> in there, but others do not (I'm using a hex text editor -- notepad++
> actually)

< http://www.talsystems.com/tsihome_h...oads/C2IEEE.htm >

> Thanks so much for your experience on this topic.

You're welcome.

Binyamin Dissen

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 23:17:55 -0800 (PST) KJ <n_o_s_p_a__m@mail.com> wrote:

:>* Are the data files parseable without knowing the record definitions?
:>I tried a tool from Siber which did a so-so job of displaying the
:>data. I'm sure there's some rules to doing it, but I surely don't know
:>them.

Perhaps, if you know something about the data.

:>* Is there a tutorial online where I can learn how to read data
:>properly out of these files? I can see some things which look familiar
:>in there, but others do not (I'm using a hex text editor -- notepad++
:>actually)

Did they not provide you with the original COBOL source code?

--
Binyamin Dissen <bdissen@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel

Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

Doug Miller

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

In article <13t703lonpla614@corp.supernews.com>, "Rick Smith" <ricksmith@mfi.net> wrote:

>XM runs on Windows 95, 98, etc, and Windows NT,
>2000, etc,; though probably not Vista and maybe not XP.

If it runs on 95, 98, NT, and 2000, what reason is there to think that it
would *not* run on XP in {95, 98, NT, or 2000} emulation mode?

For that matter, if it runs on NT, what reason is there to think that it will
not run on XP *without* emulation?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphag

at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Rick Smith

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:d4SAj.16463$Ch6.15080@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
> In article <13t703lonpla614@corp.supernews.com>, "Rick Smith"
<ricksmith@mfi.net> wrote:
>
>
> If it runs on 95, 98, NT, and 2000, what reason is there to think that it
> would *not* run on XP in {95, 98, NT, or 2000} emulation mode?

My experience is limited to Windows versions up to 2000;
therefore, I do not know about emulation modes on XP.

> For that matter, if it runs on NT, what reason is there to think that it
will
> not run on XP *without* emulation?

I had read comments about problems with running DOS
programs on XP due to XP's handling of character output
and that the problems could be resolved by installing a
particular display driver.

Furthermore, I do not recall any comments to the effect that
XM will run on XP.

Bottom-line--"maybe not XP" means I don't know and the
above are the reasons I have for denying any knowledge that
XM will run on XP.

Doug Miller

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

In article <13t7u6b22sou949@corp.supernews.com>, "Rick Smith" <ricksmith@mfi.net> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
>news:d4SAj.16463$Ch6.15080@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
><ricksmith@mfi.net> wrote:
>
>My experience is limited to Windows versions up to 2000;
>therefore, I do not know about emulation modes on XP.

Google "compatibility mode" for more information, or search the Microsoft
Knowledge Base. The same facility exists in Windows 2000 SP2 -- it's been
several years since I used Win2K so I'm going from a possibly-faulty memory
here, but I'm pretty sure it works the same way as it does in XP: right-click
on any executable, then select Properties, and click the Compatibility tab.

More info on Win2K compatibility mode here:
http://www.windowsitpro.
com/article/articleid/43388/windows-2000-compatibility-mode.html

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphag

at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

In article <0457479f-d85a-43da-bd2f-51861fcee256@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
KJ <n_o_s_p_a__m@mail.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
>On Mar 9, 2:14 am, "Rick Smith" <ricksm...@mfi.net> wrote:
>news:3e8041b2-c5ff-465b-af2f-3da5aff45ccc@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...>
>On Mar 9, 12:01 am, "Rick Smith" <ricksm...@mfi.net> wrote:

[snip]
[color=darkred]

This is becoming more and more obvious.

Might I asked what reasoning you used to conclude that 'yes, I can
honestly and honorably say that I have the skills and experience to
perform the project for which I contracted myself'?

DD

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

On Mar 9, 8:46 am, Binyamin Dissen <postin...@dissensoftware.com>
wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 23:17:55 -0800 (PST) KJ <n_o_s_p_a...@mail.com> wrote:
>
> :>* Are the data files parseable without knowing the record definitions?
> :>I tried a tool from Siber which did a so-so job of displaying the
> :>data. I'm sure there's some rules to doing it, but I surely don't know
> :>them.
>
> Perhaps, if you know something about the data.
>
> :>* Is there a tutorial online where I can learn how to read data
> :>properly out of these files? I can see some things which look familiar
> :>in there, but others do not (I'm using a hex text editor -- notepad++
> :>actually)
>
> Did they not provide you with the original COBOL source code?
>
> --
> Binyamin Dissen <bdis...@dissensoftware.com>http://www.dissensoftware.com
>
> Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
>
> Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
> you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
>
> I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
> especially those from irresponsible companies.

They didn't give me the source code -- they don't have it. I am going
to call the company that developed the program to see if I can
persuade.

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

On Mar 9, 7:23 am, "Rick Smith" <ricksm...@mfi.net> wrote:
> "KJ" <n_o_s_p_a...@mail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0457479f-d85a-43da-bd2f-51861fcee256@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...> On Mar 9, 2:14 am, "Rick Smith" <ricksm...@mfi.net> wrote:
>
> news:3e8041b2-c5ff-465b-af2f-3da5aff45ccc@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> On
> Mar 9, 12:01 am, "Rick Smith" <ricksm...@mfi.net> wrote:> > > > "KJ" <n_o_s_p_a...@mail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:465b2ca6-3900-41e1-a6eb-0f60b8bb33bf@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> to
> looking
> Anyone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> GNT is machine language. It may be disassembled; but not
> decompiled.
>
>
> Yes, but it may contain multiple indexes based on several
> key fields.
>
>
> Some have used ParseRat:
> <http://www.guysoftware.com/parserat.htm>
>
>
> <http://www.talsystems.com/tsihome_h...oads/C2IEEE.htm>
>
>
> You're welcome.

I've been using ParseRat this morning. It's helping a lot. Is there a
way to decipher the header in a (binary) data file? The one I'm
working with looks like this: 9611230914266196112309142661

When I parse out a record, it looks like this (XML-formatted):

<RECORD>
<Col1_9>01AC-02</Col1_9>
<Col10_10></Col10_10>
<Col11_20>T01600.200</Col11_20>
<Col21_End>AIR CHISEL CP-9356 406
CHICAGO PNEUMATIC</Col21_End>
</RECORD>

Now, obviously this isn't a perfect parse, but it's a start. The data
file holds information about construction tools and equipment.

I can figure out most of the above, except for 01600.200 Any clue what
that is? There are two of those similar values (one per record). One
is that value, the other is: 01600.010 The 'T' before 01600.200 means
it's a tool. Likewise, 01600.010 usually looks like E01600.010, "E"
meaning it's considered equipment in this system.

Michael Mattias

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

Michael Mattias

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

<docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:fr11f2$65m$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In article
> <0457479f-d85a-43da-bd2f-51861fcee256@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>
> [snip]
> Might I asked what reasoning you used to conclude that 'yes, I can
> honestly and honorably say that I have the skills and experience to
> perform the project for which I contracted myself'?

I often disagree with DD, but in this case I simply must concur with his
assessment, and I'm not shy about taking it to the next step:

Your saying "yes" to this project is nothing less than an insult to all the
true professionals here.

As far as I am concerned you are entitled to and should expect exactly zero
additional assistance here and can wallow in your own arrogance.

The only redeeming feature here is that your use of an alias and fake email
address seems to
indicate you have a least a modicum of guilt for doing this, and you can
build on that.

--
Michael C. Mattias
Tal Systems Inc.
Racine WI
mmattias@talsystems.com

Rick Smith

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

"KJ" <n_o_s_p_a__m@mail.com> wrote in message
news:980133a6-8ba1-4366-b9d5-f95caf933290@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

[snip]

> I've been using ParseRat this morning. It's helping a lot. Is there a
> way to decipher the header in a (binary) data file? The one I'm
> working with looks like this: 9611230914266196112309142661
>
> When I parse out a record, it looks like this (XML-formatted):
>
> <RECORD>
> <Col1_9>01AC-02</Col1_9>
> <Col10_10></Col10_10>
> <Col11_20>T01600.200</Col11_20>
> <Col21_End>AIR CHISEL CP-9356 406
> CHICAGO PNEUMATIC</Col21_End>
> </RECORD>
>
> Now, obviously this isn't a perfect parse, but it's a start. The data
> file holds information about construction tools and equipment.
>
> I can figure out most of the above, except for 01600.200 Any clue what
> that is? There are two of those similar values (one per record). One
> is that value, the other is: 01600.010 The 'T' before 01600.200 means
> it's a tool. Likewise, 01600.010 usually looks like E01600.010, "E"
> meaning it's considered equipment in this system.

The file header (first 128 bytes) is described in documentation
supplied as part of the COBOL development environment.
It is too detailed to go into here; but it is probably not necessary,
for your use, to know its contents.

The record content depends on the application. I don't know
enough about the application to help. However, as you run
the application, you should be able to assign names to some
of the fields that compose the records.

HeyBub

2008-03-09, 6:55 pm

Michael Mattias wrote:
> <docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:fr11f2$65m$1@reader2.panix.com...
>
> I often disagree with DD, but in this case I simply must concur with
> his assessment, and I'm not shy about taking it to the next step:
>
> Your saying "yes" to this project is nothing less than an insult to
> all the true professionals here.
>
> As far as I am concerned you are entitled to and should expect
> exactly zero additional assistance here and can wallow in your own
> arrogance.
> The only redeeming feature here is that your use of an alias and fake
> email address seems to
> indicate you have a least a modicum of guilt for doing this, and you
> can build on that.

And he's posting via Google Groups...

Although it's unsaid, I'd wager he wants to convert an inventory system in a
commercial environment to a web-based environment using Java.

In my view, one can't really be a programming professional without knowing a
little something about FORTRAN and Cobol, BAL, and, of course, the newer
languages.

2008-03-09, 6:56 pm

In article <orUAj.6202$pl4.5388@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>,
Michael Mattias <mmattias@talsystems.com> wrote:
><docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:fr11f2$65m$1@reader2.panix.com...
>
>I often disagree with DD, but in this case I simply must concur with his
>assessment, and I'm not shy about taking it to the next step:
>
>Your saying "yes" to this project is nothing less than an insult to all the
>true professionals here.

Oh, I *cannot* resist...

.... wow... you mean *both* of them?

DD

Pete Dashwood

2008-03-10, 7:55 am

"Michael Mattias" <mmattias@talsystems.com> wrote in message
news:orUAj.6202$pl4.5388@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> <docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:fr11f2$65m$1@reader2.panix.com...
>

Are you sure the original poster was contracted, and what bearing does it
have on whether or not he gets help?

Suppose there was no-one else available who would take it on?

People often find themselves in situiations they'd rather not be in.
Sometimes it is through over-confidence, sometimes it is through
foolishness, sometimes it is simply being told to do something if you want
to keep your job, occasionally it is because they have an eye to the "main
chance" and try to make a few bob... I don't see it as the province of this
forum to pontificate or make value judgements about it.

> I often disagree with DD, but in this case I simply must concur with his
> assessment, and I'm not shy about taking it to the next step:
>
> Your saying "yes" to this project is nothing less than an insult to all
> the
> true professionals here.

I think that's more than a bit harsh and disagree. Besides, as one of the
professionals here, I don't feel insulted by this... :-) (Maybe I'm not a
"true" professional by your definition, Michael (whatever that means...),
but if being one means taking offence where none is intended, then I'd
rather not be one...)

I don't see arrogance in the posts; I see a request for help with some good
advice being given.

We don't know the circumstances under which KJ took this on. He may have
been required to do this, and is doing the best he can. He has certanly made
some good progress given he doesn't have any source code...

I would be concerned if people asking for help here are now to be subject to
judgement as to their worthiness of receiving it.

Doc's admonition to "do your own homework" is a fair and reasonable
response, if he feels that someone is s

ing to get their homework done
here, but that is not the same thing as someone who is working in the IT
field requesting help for an aspect of programming which he is not expert
in.

It seems pretty simple to me. If you want to help; do so. If you don't want
to help, then don't.

Value judgements are in no way constructive or helpful, and actually reflect
very poorly on the people making them, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Are COBOL "professionals" now so endangered by the diminishing market that
they will withhold help from others, like a closed Cult protecting its Holy
Secrets? It was partly because of that attitude that COBOL fell into decline
in the first place.

Yes, we make a living selling skill, but if you sold bread, would you never
give the odd bun away? If you were a butcher, would you not give a kid a
saveloy? I guess it comes down to personality and attitude, just like any
field of endeavour.

>
> As far as I am concerned you are entitled to and should expect exactly
> zero
> additional assistance here and can wallow in your own arrogance.

Again, I disagree, although I respect your right to feel that way, Michael.

>
> The only redeeming feature here is that your use of an alias and fake
> email address seems to
> indicate you have a least a modicum of guilt for doing this, and you can
> build on that.

Or, it could just be that he doesn't want to reveal who he is in a Usenet
forum. If using a nom-de-plume is now to be cause for suspicion and
withholding help, then I guess we won't be seeing any further replies to
posts from Doc Dwarf.... :-)

Pete.
--
"I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."

Pete Dashwood

2008-03-10, 7:55 am

"Michael Mattias" <mmattias@talsystems.com> wrote in message
news:mjUAj.6201$pl4.2475@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> "KJ" <n_o_s_p_a__m@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:465b2ca6-3900-41e1-a6eb-0f60b8bb33bf@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
> I've met some other people like you - people who don't know when and/or
> how to say "No."
>
> MCM
>
Be thankful you didn't marry one... :-)

Pete
--
"I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."

HeyBub

2008-03-10, 9:56 pm

Michael Mattias wrote:
> "KJ" <n_o_s_p_a__m@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:465b2ca6-3900-41e1-a6eb-0f60b8bb33bf@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
> I've met some other people like you - people who don't know when
> and/or how to say "No."
>

"I'm just the girl who can't say 'N.., n..., nnn..., NNNN!!!..., n,...' "

Best time of my life, when I met her...

Michael Mattias

2008-03-10, 9:56 pm

"Pete Dashwood" <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:63kncdF2809f3U1@mid.individual.net...
> Value judgements are in no way constructive or helpful, and actually
> reflect very poorly on the people making them, at least as far as I'm
> concerned.

I have to disagree with my esteemed colleague from the bottom half of Planet
Earth.

While such unsolicited value judgements may be in poor taste when offered in
a public forum, we - the professional IT community - simply must police
ourselves if we are to earn the professional respect we s

, and part of
the way we police ourselves is the frank expression of our values.

--
Michael C. Mattias
Tal Systems Inc.
Racine WI
mmattias@talsystems.com

Michael Mattias

2008-03-10, 9:56 pm

--
Michael C. Mattias
Tal Systems Inc.
Racine WI
mmattias@talsystems.com
"Pete Dashwood" <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:63kncdF2809f3U1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
> "Michael Mattias" <mmattias@talsystems.com> wrote in message
> news:orUAj.6202$pl4.5388@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>
> Are you sure the original poster was contracted, and what bearing does it
> have on whether or not he gets help?
>
> Suppose there was no-one else available who would take it on?
>
> People often find themselves in situiations they'd rather not be in.
> Sometimes it is through over-confidence, sometimes it is through
> foolishness, sometimes it is simply being told to do something if you want
> to keep your job, occasionally it is because they have an eye to the "main
> chance" and try to make a few bob... I don't see it as the province of
> this forum to pontificate or make value judgements about it.
>
>
> I think that's more than a bit harsh and disagree. Besides, as one of the
> professionals here, I don't feel insulted by this... :-) (Maybe I'm not a
> "true" professional by your definition, Michael (whatever that means...),
> but if being one means taking offence where none is intended, then I'd
> rather not be one...)
>
> I don't see arrogance in the posts; I see a request for help with some
> good advice being given.
>
> We don't know the circumstances under which KJ took this on. He may have
> been required to do this, and is doing the best he can. He has certanly
> made some good progress given he doesn't have any source code...
>
> I would be concerned if people asking for help here are now to be subject
> to judgement as to their worthiness of receiving it.
>
> Doc's admonition to "do your own homework" is a fair and reasonable
> response, if he feels that someone is s

ing to get their homework done
> here, but that is not the same thing as someone who is working in the IT
> field requesting help for an aspect of programming which he is not expert
> in.
>
> It seems pretty simple to me. If you want to help; do so. If you don't
> want to help, then don't.
>
> Value judgements are in no way constructive or helpful, and actually
> reflect very poorly on the people making them, at least as far as I'm
> concerned.
>
> Are COBOL "professionals" now so endangered by the diminishing market that
> they will withhold help from others, like a closed Cult protecting its
> Holy Secrets? It was partly because of that attitude that COBOL fell into
> decline in the first place.
>
> Yes, we make a living selling skill, but if you sold bread, would you
> never give the odd bun away? If you were a butcher, would you not give a
> kid a saveloy? I guess it comes down to personality and attitude, just
> like any field of endeavour.
>
>
> Again, I disagree, although I respect your right to feel that way,
> Michael.
>
>
> Or, it could just be that he doesn't want to reveal who he is in a Usenet
> forum. If using a nom-de-plume is now to be cause for suspicion and
> withholding help, then I guess we won't be seeing any further replies to
> posts from Doc Dwarf.... :-)
>
> Pete.
> --
> "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
>
>

2008-03-10, 9:56 pm

In article <63kncdF2809f3U1@mid.individual.net>,
Pete Dashwood <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
>"Michael Mattias" <mmattias@talsystems.com> wrote in message
>news:orUAj.6202$pl4.5388@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>
>Are you sure the original poster was contracted, and what bearing does it
>have on whether or not he gets help?

The original poster referred to 'the customer's' work, not 'my employer's'
or 'my boss's'... hence my conclusion.

>
>Suppose there was no-one else available who would take it on?

The same thing might happen were I to suppose that there were no
hypothetical questions. It is rare, in my experience, for someone to say
to a customer 'No, I do not have the skills for this' and then be told
'Here, take my money, I don't care!'

DD

Michael Mattias

2008-03-10, 9:56 pm

>>Suppose there was no-one else available who would take it on?

That's the old law-school ethics discussion: You're the last lawyer in town;
are you obligated to defend the man accused of stealing from a relative NOT
immediate family?

(Many variations of same).

MCM

Richard

2008-03-10, 9:56 pm

On Mar 10, 5:21 am, KJ <n_o_s_p_a...@mail.com> wrote:

> They didn't give me the source code -- they don't have it. I am going
> to call the company that developed the program to see if I can
> persuade.

From:

http://www.awci.org/cd/pdfs/9108_c.pdf

Modern Data
Management, Inc.
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(800) 726-3160

COBEST Construction
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General Ledger, APs, ARs,
Union & Certified Payroll.

IBM PC Compatible 646 K
memory, 50 Meg HD, IBM
PS/2, IBM AS/400, UNIX/
AlX, WANG VS, D/G
AViiON

Free 1 year maintenance &
support, 800 hot line
support. Free on-site
installation and training, On-
line HELP.

'Persuade' may require the ability to write cheques for 6 or 7 figure
numbers.

Why would they 'give', or even sell, the source code to a product that
you are contracted to create a competitor or replacement for ?

In fact they may even 'persuade' you via the courts that you are
attempting to steal their IP and/or Trade Secrets. There may even be
EULA or contracts that prevent you, as an agent of the customer, from
doing what you have done so far. Check your liability and indemnity
clauses in the contract with your customer. Don't have any ? oh bad
luck, get a lawyer.

> * Can .GNT files be decompiled?

No.

If you are trying to run .GNT files, or are wanting to use XM.EXE then
you will need to buy a licensed run-time from Microfocus. With DOS
based MF systems there are ways of building applications that do not
require run-time fees, but .GNT and XM and not within that.

> * What is the purpose of the IDX file -- some kind of index into the
> main data file?

Yes.

> * Are the data files parseable without knowing the record definitions?

No. Not generally anyway. You may be able to work out what many data
items are from knowing the data values and seeing where they are in
the record.

> I tried a tool from Siber which did a so-so job of displaying the
> data. I'm sure there's some rules to doing it, but I surely don't know
> them.

That may be as good as it gets.

> * Is there a tutorial online where I can learn how to read data
> properly out of these files? I can see some things which look familiar
> in there, but others do not (I'm using a hex text editor -- notepad++
> actually)

Stuff may be binary or packed decimal or even proprietary. If you
recognise something then it may be that, otherwise you may never know
what the data represents.
[color=darkred]

It seems that it _isn't_ a "COBOL conversion project" at all. It is a
'ground up' reimplementation of what they are doing with a packaged
solution. That would be fine if:

a) you are paid an hourly or w

ly rate suitable for an analyst/
programmer (which you are obviously not).

b) there is an unlimited budget

c) there is no completion date specified.

However, if there are date and budget limits, or specified contractual
performance, then run away now.

HeyBub

2008-03-10, 9:56 pm

Richard wrote:
>
>
> 'Persuade' may require the ability to write cheques for 6 or 7 figure
> numbers.
>
> Why would they 'give', or even sell, the source code to a product that
> you are contracted to create a competitor or replacement for ?
>
> In fact they may even 'persuade' you via the courts that you are
> attempting to steal their IP and/or Trade Secrets. There may even be
> EULA or contracts that prevent you, as an agent of the customer, from
> doing what you have done so far. Check your liability and indemnity
> clauses in the contract with your customer. Don't have any ? oh bad
> luck, get a lawyer.
>
>
>
> No.
>
> If you are trying to run .GNT files, or are wanting to use XM.EXE then
> you will need to buy a licensed run-time from Microfocus. With DOS
> based MF systems there are ways of building applications that do not
> require run-time fees, but .GNT and XM and not within that.
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
> No. Not generally anyway. You may be able to work out what many data
> items are from knowing the data values and seeing where they are in
> the record.
>
>
> That may be as good as it gets.
>
>
> Stuff may be binary or packed decimal or even proprietary. If you
> recognise something then it may be that, otherwise you may never know
> what the data represents.
>
>
> It seems that it _isn't_ a "COBOL conversion project" at all. It is a
> 'ground up' reimplementation of what they are doing with a packaged
> solution. That would be fine if:
>
> a) you are paid an hourly or w

ly rate suitable for an analyst/
> programmer (which you are obviously not).
>
> b) there is an unlimited budget
>
> c) there is no completion date specified.
>
> However, if there are date and budget limits, or specified contractual
> performance, then run away now.

Maybe he could use Linux or a pile of steaming GNU stuff?

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