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OT - on Scripture (Episcopal document) - semi-LONG post
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| William M. Klein 2008-02-19, 6:58 pm |
| In previous posts, I have tried to convey my understanding of what the "official
view" of The Episcopal Church (aka "Protestant Episcopal Church in the United
States of America ") is on how/why to read Scripture. Thanks to the help of a
friend of mine (an Episcopal Priest), I have found a document that I thought
might better (and in a more orderly manner) provide an overview of our
denomination's view on this topic.
The following is from
"Questions on the Way
A catechism based on the Book of Common Prayer"
by
Beverly D. Tucker
William H. Swatos, J4
That book is intended
"as an introduction to the Episcopal Church for those outside it, we hope it
will be useful for discussion groups in the congregations, Episcopalian or
otherwise."
This book is intended to supplement "An Outline of Faith" which appears in the
"Book of Common Prayer" (abbreviated BCP in the following text). The actual
portion of that, that relates to Scripture can be found online at:
http://www.episcopalchurch.org/visi...564_ENG_HTM.htm
The book is presented as a "catechism" (question and answer format).
I believe that these answers (views) are "common" within the Anglican communion
and to a greater (rather than lesser) extent in many of our sister Christian
denominations. (and certainly NOT shared by those "Evangelical" denominations
that are commonly called "fundamentalist".)
The following is just an excerpt from the chapter on "The Bible". If you want to
read this in context, the entire book is available from Amazon at (long URL):
http://www.amazon.com/Questions-Way...03460899&sr=1-1
* * *
Q. Why do we call the Bible, or the Holy Scriptures, the Word of God?
A. We call the Holy Scriptures the Word of God because we believe God inspired
their human authors and because God still speaks to us through their words (2
Tim 3:15-16; 2 Pet 1:21; BCP, p. 853).
Q. How should we read the Bible?
A. It is important to read a little of the Bible every day. We should read it
with prayer and try to find what God is saying to us through it here and now,
and how we can make our lives an offering to God and others. In order to read
different parts of the Bible in an orderly way, we should follow a plan of daily
readings such as the "Daily Office Lectionary" (BCP, pp. 935-995) or Forward Day
by Day.
Q. Are all parts of the Bible of the same value?
A. No. Parts of the Old Testament have been superseded by the New, and the old
Jewish laws are not obligatory for Christians, although we may learn much from
the principles behind them. We must also remember that the social situation in
which we live is very different from what it was at the time the Bible was
written. God's truth, love, and justice never change; "Jesus Christ is the same
yesterday, today, and forever" (Heb 13:8). But the world changes, and we must
learn to show God's love in our lives where we are.
Q. Should every word of the Bible be understood literally?
A. No. Much of the Bible is poetic language. When Christ said, "I am the door"
(Jn 10:7), he was not speaking literally, of course. The creation account in
Genesis 1 should not be understood as a scientific explanation of the origin of
the universe, but a poetic expression of the religious truth that God made all
things. The important thing in the Bible is what God has done and is doing for
us, and what God is saying to us today, not the historical details or particular
verbal expressions.
Q. Should we rely on ourselves alone to understand the Bible?
A. We should certainly read the Bible ourselves, but it is good to have help
from other persons and books to understand it rightly. There are many things in
the Bible no ordinary person could possibly understand without the help of
others, nor can we always see what doctrines they lead to. History has shown
many times that when people adopt "private" interpretations of the Bible, they
make serious errors and lead others into them.
Q. Who, then teaches us how to interpret the Bible rightly?
A. The church. The Holy Spirit, through the church, guides readers of the Bible
today, just as the Holy Spirit guided the authors of the Holy Scriptures in the
past. Through the ages people in the church have read the Bible, and under the
guidance of the Holy Spirit have learned to interpret it, to teach its truths,
and to correct the errors of those who read it wrongly. The church's creeds
enshrine the essential truths of scripture. The church stands as interpreter and
guardian of the scripture.
Q. Which came first, the church or the Bible?
A. The Christian church existed for many years before any part of the New
Testament was written; and Israel, which was the "church" of the Old Covenant,
existed long before the Old Testament was put in writing. It was the church, led
by the Holy Spirit, which decided which writings were to be included in the Holy
Scriptures, and which were not. God's revelation called the church into being
and the record of that revelation was recorded, sifted, and selected by the
church. Neither the church nor the Bible is absolute, for both are under God.
God gave the Bible through the church, but since it is God's Word, the church
and its traditions are judged and defined by "God's Word written" (BCP, p. 871,
Article XX).
Q. Does not God reveal truth directly to individuals apart from the church or
the Bible?
A. We believe that God speaks to us throughout our lives, especially in prayer.
We treasure these moments, these "conversations" with God. We thank God that we
were endowed with reason and the ability to s for the truth and with
conscience to distinguish between good and evil. We recognize that many have
experienced the Holy Spirit's power in their lives. But in humility we should
also confess that our reason can be distorted by pride, self-centeredness, and
sin, and that our consciences may be warped by the prejudices and corruptions of
the societies in which we live. For these reasons we should always avail
ourselves of the guidance God gives us through the Holy Scriptures and the
church as standards by which to compare, test, and sort out our personal
experiences.
--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
| |
| HeyBub 2008-02-19, 9:55 pm |
| William M. Klein wrote:
> In previous posts, I have tried to convey my understanding of what
> the "official view" of The Episcopal Church (aka "Protestant Episcopal
> Church in
> the United States of America ") is on how/why to read Scripture. Thanks
> to the
> help of a friend of mine (an Episcopal Priest), I have found a document
> that I
> thought might better (and in a more orderly manner) provide an overview of
> our
> denomination's view on this topic.
>
> The following is from
> "Questions on the Way
> A catechism based on the Book of Common Prayer"
> by
> Beverly D. Tucker
> William H. Swatos, J4
>
> That book is intended
> "as an introduction to the Episcopal Church for those outside it, we
> hope it will be useful for discussion groups in the congregations,
> Episcopalian or otherwise."
>
> This book is intended to supplement "An Outline of Faith" which
> appears in the "Book of Common Prayer" (abbreviated BCP in the
> following text). The actual portion of that, that relates to Scripture
> can be found online at:
> http://www.episcopalchurch.org/visi...564_ENG_HTM.htm
>
> The book is presented as a "catechism" (question and answer format).
>
> I believe that these answers (views) are "common" within the Anglican
> communion and to a greater (rather than lesser) extent in many of our
> sister
> Christian denominations. (and certainly NOT shared by those "Evangelical"
> denominations that are commonly called "fundamentalist".)
>
> The following is just an excerpt from the chapter on "The Bible". If
> you want to read this in context, the entire book is available from Amazon
> at
> (long URL):
> http://www.amazon.com/Questions-Way...03460899&sr=1-1
>
> * * *
>
> Q. Why do we call the Bible, or the Holy Scriptures, the Word of God?
>
> A. We call the Holy Scriptures the Word of God because we believe God
> inspired their human authors and because God still speaks to us through
> their
> words (2 Tim 3:15-16; 2 Pet 1:21; BCP, p. 853).
>
> Q. How should we read the Bible?
>
> A. It is important to read a little of the Bible every day. We should
> read it with prayer and try to find what God is saying to us through it
> here
> and now, and how we can make our lives an offering to God and others. In
> order
> to read different parts of the Bible in an orderly way, we should follow a
> plan of daily readings such as the "Daily Office Lectionary" (BCP, pp.
> 935-995) or
> Forward Day by Day.
>
> Q. Are all parts of the Bible of the same value?
>
> A. No. Parts of the Old Testament have been superseded by the New,
> and the old Jewish laws are not obligatory for Christians, although we may
> learn
> much from the principles behind them. We must also remember that the
> social
> situation in which we live is very different from what it was at the time
> the
> Bible was written. God's truth, love, and justice never change; "Jesus
> Christ
> is the same yesterday, today, and forever" (Heb 13:8). But the world
> changes, and
> we must learn to show God's love in our lives where we are.
>
> Q. Should every word of the Bible be understood literally?
>
> A. No. Much of the Bible is poetic language. When Christ said, "I am
> the door" (Jn 10:7), he was not speaking literally, of course. The
> creation account in Genesis 1 should not be understood as a scientific
> explanation of the
> origin of the universe, but a poetic expression of the religious truth
> that God
> made all things. The important thing in the Bible is what God has done and
> is
> doing for us, and what God is saying to us today, not the historical
> details or
> particular verbal expressions.
>
> Q. Should we rely on ourselves alone to understand the Bible?
>
> A. We should certainly read the Bible ourselves, but it is good to
> have help from other persons and books to understand it rightly. There are
> many
> things in the Bible no ordinary person could possibly understand without
> the
> help of others, nor can we always see what doctrines they lead to. History
> has shown many times that when people adopt "private" interpretations of
> the
> Bible, they make serious errors and lead others into them.
>
> Q. Who, then teaches us how to interpret the Bible rightly?
>
> A. The church. The Holy Spirit, through the church, guides readers of
> the Bible today, just as the Holy Spirit guided the authors of the Holy
> Scriptures in the past. Through the ages people in the church have read
> the Bible, and
> under the guidance of the Holy Spirit have learned to interpret it, to
> teach
> its truths, and to correct the errors of those who read it wrongly. The
> church's
> creeds enshrine the essential truths of scripture. The church stands as
> interpreter and guardian of the scripture.
>
> Q. Which came first, the church or the Bible?
>
> A. The Christian church existed for many years before any part of the
> New Testament was written; and Israel, which was the "church" of the Old
> Covenant, existed long before the Old Testament was put in writing. It was
> the
> church, led by the Holy Spirit, which decided which writings were to be
> included
> in the Holy Scriptures, and which were not. God's revelation called the
> church
> into being and the record of that revelation was recorded, sifted, and
> selected
> by the church. Neither the church nor the Bible is absolute, for both are
> under God. God gave the Bible through the church, but since it is God's
> Word,
> the church and its traditions are judged and defined by "God's Word
> written"
> (BCP, p. 871, Article XX).
>
> Q. Does not God reveal truth directly to individuals apart from the
> church or the Bible?
>
> A. We believe that God speaks to us throughout our lives, especially
> in prayer. We treasure these moments, these "conversations" with God. We
> thank
> God that we were endowed with reason and the ability to s for the truth
> and
> with conscience to distinguish between good and evil. We recognize that
> many have experienced the Holy Spirit's power in their lives. But in
> humility
> we should also confess that our reason can be distorted by pride,
> self-centeredness, and sin, and that our consciences may be warped by the
> prejudices and
> corruptions of the societies in which we live. For these reasons we should
> always
> avail ourselves of the guidance God gives us through the Holy Scriptures
> and the church as standards by which to compare, test, and sort out our
> personal experiences.
Excellent. Especially the part: "Who teaches us to interpret the Bible..."
Answer: "The Church..."
As it is with churches such as the Anglican and Epispocal that are in
communion with the Roman Church.
Non-Catholics tend to go more with individual interpretations and Jews tend
to support the views of the "Sages of the Generation" (and those that came
before).
Sometimes these three methods yield the same result, as in murder; sometimes
they reach differing conclusions, for example on abortion.
| |
| Pete Dashwood 2008-02-20, 3:55 am |
| "William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:r1Juj.257370$1x.207050@fe05.news.easynews.com...
> In previous posts, I have tried to convey my understanding of what the
> "official view" of The Episcopal Church (aka "Protestant Episcopal Church
> in the United States of America ") is on how/why to read Scripture.
> Thanks to the help of a friend of mine (an Episcopal Priest), I have found
> a document that I thought might better (and in a more orderly manner)
> provide an overview of our denomination's view on this topic.
>
> The following is from
> "Questions on the Way
> A catechism based on the Book of Common Prayer"
> by
> Beverly D. Tucker
> William H. Swatos, J4
>
> That book is intended
> "as an introduction to the Episcopal Church for those outside it, we hope
> it will be useful for discussion groups in the congregations, Episcopalian
> or otherwise."
>
> This book is intended to supplement "An Outline of Faith" which appears in
> the "Book of Common Prayer" (abbreviated BCP in the following text). The
> actual portion of that, that relates to Scripture can be found online at:
> http://www.episcopalchurch.org/visi...564_ENG_HTM.htm
>
> The book is presented as a "catechism" (question and answer format).
>
> I believe that these answers (views) are "common" within the Anglican
> communion and to a greater (rather than lesser) extent in many of our
> sister Christian denominations. (and certainly NOT shared by those
> "Evangelical" denominations that are commonly called "fundamentalist".)
>
> The following is just an excerpt from the chapter on "The Bible". If you
> want to read this in context, the entire book is available from Amazon at
> (long URL):
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Questions-Way...03460899&sr=1-1
>
> * * *
>
> Q. Why do we call the Bible, or the Holy Scriptures, the Word of God?
>
> A. We call the Holy Scriptures the Word of God because we believe God
> inspired their human authors and because God still speaks to us through
> their words (2 Tim 3:15-16; 2 Pet 1:21; BCP, p. 853).
>
> Q. How should we read the Bible?
>
> A. It is important to read a little of the Bible every day. We should read
> it with prayer and try to find what God is saying to us through it here
> and now, and how we can make our lives an offering to God and others. In
> order to read different parts of the Bible in an orderly way, we should
> follow a plan of daily readings such as the "Daily Office Lectionary"
> (BCP, pp. 935-995) or Forward Day by Day.
>
> Q. Are all parts of the Bible of the same value?
>
> A. No. Parts of the Old Testament have been superseded by the New, and the
> old Jewish laws are not obligatory for Christians, although we may learn
> much from the principles behind them. We must also remember that the
> social situation in which we live is very different from what it was at
> the time the Bible was written. God's truth, love, and justice never
> change; "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever" (Heb
> 13:8). But the world changes, and we must learn to show God's love in our
> lives where we are.
>
> Q. Should every word of the Bible be understood literally?
>
> A. No. Much of the Bible is poetic language. When Christ said, "I am the
> door" (Jn 10:7), he was not speaking literally, of course. The creation
> account in Genesis 1 should not be understood as a scientific explanation
> of the origin of the universe, but a poetic expression of the religious
> truth that God made all things. The important thing in the Bible is what
> God has done and is doing for us, and what God is saying to us today, not
> the historical details or particular verbal expressions.
>
> Q. Should we rely on ourselves alone to understand the Bible?
>
> A. We should certainly read the Bible ourselves, but it is good to have
> help from other persons and books to understand it rightly. There are many
> things in the Bible no ordinary person could possibly understand without
> the help of others, nor can we always see what doctrines they lead to.
> History has shown many times that when people adopt "private"
> interpretations of the Bible, they make serious errors and lead others
> into them.
>
> Q. Who, then teaches us how to interpret the Bible rightly?
>
> A. The church. The Holy Spirit, through the church, guides readers of the
> Bible today, just as the Holy Spirit guided the authors of the Holy
> Scriptures in the past. Through the ages people in the church have read
> the Bible, and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit have learned to
> interpret it, to teach its truths, and to correct the errors of those who
> read it wrongly. The church's creeds enshrine the essential truths of
> scripture. The church stands as interpreter and guardian of the scripture.
>
> Q. Which came first, the church or the Bible?
>
> A. The Christian church existed for many years before any part of the New
> Testament was written; and Israel, which was the "church" of the Old
> Covenant, existed long before the Old Testament was put in writing. It was
> the church, led by the Holy Spirit, which decided which writings were to
> be included in the Holy Scriptures, and which were not. God's revelation
> called the church into being and the record of that revelation was
> recorded, sifted, and selected by the church. Neither the church nor the
> Bible is absolute, for both are under God. God gave the Bible through the
> church, but since it is God's Word, the church and its traditions are
> judged and defined by "God's Word written" (BCP, p. 871, Article XX).
>
> Q. Does not God reveal truth directly to individuals apart from the church
> or the Bible?
>
> A. We believe that God speaks to us throughout our lives, especially in
> prayer. We treasure these moments, these "conversations" with God. We
> thank God that we were endowed with reason and the ability to s for the
> truth and with conscience to distinguish between good and evil. We
> recognize that many have experienced the Holy Spirit's power in their
> lives. But in humility we should also confess that our reason can be
> distorted by pride, self-centeredness, and sin, and that our consciences
> may be warped by the prejudices and corruptions of the societies in which
> we live. For these reasons we should always avail ourselves of the
> guidance God gives us through the Holy Scriptures and the church as
> standards by which to compare, test, and sort out our personal
> experiences.
>
> --
> Bill Klein
> wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
I found this very interesting and thank you for posting it, Bill
It reveals a calmer, gentler, more reasonable view of Christianity than the
stark, bleak, and savage one outlined by Judson.
Obviously, I don't believe in God, so you would expect me to give rather
different answers to the questions (see below...), but the interesting thing
here is, that I have NO PROBLEM with the answers that WERE given. (I have
major problems with Judson's approach and have therefore stopped debating it
with him.)
If you believe in a kind and loving God, this seems like the right approach
to me.
Just as a matter of passing interest and meaning no disrespect, here are the
answers I would give to the same questions: (I stress that this is a
personal response; I do not speak for other atheists...)
> Q. Why do we call the Bible, or the Holy Scriptures, the Word of God?
A: Because it is the basis of a number of the world's great religions and
purports to be the Word of God. As an atheist, it is of the same interest to
me as any of the other Holy Scriptures from any of the world's great
religions, possibly more so, because it is the scripture that is most
accepted by the society in which I live. As an atheist, I should respect all
scriptures which form the basis of a belief system, whether I agree with
them or not.
>Q. How should we read the Bible?
A: The same way we read any other Holy Scripture. With an enquiring mind but
without being judgemental. S to understand and learn where there is
something to be learned, but don't accept what conflicts with observation
and logic, and don't rush in to acceptance on a wave of hysteria or need.
> Q. Are all parts of the Bible of the same value?
A:Yes. Although some of the moral and allegorical lessons are more useful
than the historical stuff... The Bible, like most Holy Writ, is not to be
dismissed lightly and contains much that is of value to ANYBODY, whether
they believe in God or not. Besides, much of it is a ripping good read...
:-)
> Q. Should every word of the Bible be understood literally?
The answer Bill posted works for me...:-)
> A. No. Much of the Bible is poetic language. When Christ said, "I am the
> door" (Jn 10:7), he was not speaking literally, of course. The creation
> account in Genesis 1 should not be understood as a scientific explanation
> of the origin of the universe, but a poetic expression of the religious
> truth that God made all things. The important thing in the Bible is what
> God has done and is doing for us, and what God is saying to us today, not
> the historical details or particular verbal expressions.
While I don't believe that God created all things, I see no problem with
interpreting the Bible to mean that. It is a reasonable summary of the
message, whether you believe it or not... And I think the gentle
interpretation above is outstanding.
> Q. Should we rely on ourselves alone to understand the Bible?
A: Yes. Just as we rely on ourselves to understand anything we read, and
hone skills throughout our lifetime to enable us to do so. Certainly, there
is no harm in discussing it with both Believers and Unbelievers.
Unfortunately, this is not always possible without arousing fierce emotions,
evangelical zeal, and religious fervor. (I used to think it was, but that
was naive...I have changed my mind about it since posting here.)
> Q. Who, then teaches us how to interpret the Bible rightly?
A: The "right" interpretation is the one you arrive at by reading,
filtering, measuring, and studying, just like any other textbook. A Church
can give you what they get from it, but that is no more "right" than what
you got from it yourself. The trap is in believing it is "special", when it
isn't.
> Q. Which came first, the church or the Bible?
A: Unless I was planning on joining a Church (and I'm not...), it doesn't
matter.
> Q. Does not God reveal truth directly to individuals apart from the church
> or the Bible?
A: It is certainly true that some people come to faith by roads other than
the Holy Bible, or an established church. I know this because I have met
some of them. I don't believe that Christianity (or any other faith) has a
monopoly on goodness, kindness, decency, morality, and even faith in God...
There are millions of decent (even God fearing) people in the world who do
not embrace Christianity; this doesn't make Christianity "wrong", but it
doesn't make it the "only way" either.
I don't believe God reveals truth (He certainly hasn't to me...), but that
doesn't mean that we cannot come to truth, and it doesn't mean that all the
people who believe He has inspired them to the truth are "wrong"... Whatever
works for people and makes their lives better, inspires them to be better
people and treat each other better, cannot be a bad thing. It just doesn't
HAVE to be faith in a Supreme Being. I manage it based on what I have
"worked out" over decades. But, most of all, I accept that what works for
me, may not for others, and practice tolerance. (Having said that, I have
low or zero tolerance for some "religious behaviours" especially where they
involve torture or maltreatment of people during this lifetime or any other
one...). I have no desire to make myself right by spreading the "truths" I
have found. I help where I can and I try to do my best (for myself and
others).
I believe there are important questions that need to be answered and I don't
believe that ANY religion has ALL the answers (although MOST religions have
SOME of the answers...). I definitely believe that attempting to find these
answers is the path to growth and the search itself is every bit as valuable
as the destination. If I have faith in anything, I have faith in the ability
of Human Beings to question and resolve. The secrets of the Cosmos are
knowable; we just need to grow until we can comprehend them. (Tremendous
progress in this "growth curve" has been made in the last 100 years...).
I know what I believe, and I know why I believe it. I didn't learn it from a
book or a sermon; I learned it travelling many miles and talking and
listening to many people, questioning, evaluating, living life and learning
from it, gathering information and finally processing it into a set of
(non-absolute, yet consistent...) values that work for me. I know what is
right and wrong without having some book to tell me, I know what is
important and what isn't, without needing a book to tell me, and I know what
will make the world I live in a better place, without needing a book to tell
me.
You may enjoy this poem (at a number of different levels). It stresses the
idea that "no-one else can walk it for you, you gotta walk it by yourself"
(Johnny Cash, 'The Reverend Mr. Black')
http://www.everypoet.com/archive/po...g_tomlinson.htm
Pete.
--
"And may yer God go wit' yer!" (Dave Allen)
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