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Re: Zero-tolerance speed cameras coming to Texas
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| Pete Dashwood 2008-02-17, 6:57 pm |
|
"HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13rhgck61fpor89@corp.supernews.com...
> From another newsgroup - my contribution is at the bottom
>
> --- begin quote
>
> jeremy wrote:
>
> http://i26.tinypic.com/soyemp.jpg
>
>
> Can't be Texas:
>
> 1. It's on the wrong side of the road. It would have to shoot the
> evil-doer in the back and we don't back-shoot in the Lone Star State.
>
> 2. Look at the guard rail. It doesn't taper off into the ground, thereby
> running the risk of impaling a car that wanders off the road. We
> countersunk all our guard-rails decades ago. This installation must be in
> some jurisdiction that doesn't give a shit about innocent citizens, like
> Chicago or D.C.
>
> On the other hand, if the device is located in the UK, everything fits.
They tried that here too. It became a favourite nighttime sport with
teenagers to fire paint guns at them. In Texas I imagine they would use real
bullets...
Many speed cameras have now been removed and the remaining ones have a
tolerance which is not officially disclosed but is believed to be around
15%.
I was really annoyed a couple of w s ago when I received a ticket for an
offence noted by a local camera which I KNEW WAS THERE! I was thinking about
other things and just not worrying about the limit. It noted I was
travelling at 58K in a 50K limit. Normally I observe the limit in built up
areas, but on this occasion I was in a hurry and didn't think about it.
Besides, it was a main street with multiple lanes and no likelihood of kids
darting out. Fortunately, as I don't own my car any more, my company paid
the fine, and I don't get demerit points :-).
A little while ago I was travelling in the Waikato Valley (Hobbit
country...) on a wide open country road with the roof down on a glorious
summer day. Not another car on the road and a very long straight... You know
how it is... I just wanted to feel the wind in what's left of my hair :-) By
the time I was approaching the end of the straight I was doing 200K; the NZ
national limit is 100K. I was slowing for the bend when another car,
travelling in the opposite direction swept around it. Sure enough, it was
one of Waikato's finest... the ONLY car I had seen for about 10 minutes. I
figured I was done (cop cars here have forward and backward looking laser
and radar and they can measure your speed from either side of the road, as I
found to my cost on a previous occasion when the cop did a u-turn, came
after, and booked me...), as I watched his brake lights in the rear vision.
I went round the bend and expected any moment to see the guy come after me.
He never did. Maybe he was in a hurry to get home for his tea (it was around
6:00pm) or maybe he just couldn't be bothered and felt that showing his
brake lights was enough of a warning. (It was, I continued at 100, very
contrite...:-))
I would stress that I don't NORMALLY drive irresponsibly, and havea clean
record at the moment (they wipe it every three years if you have had no
offences), but sometimes I do long for the "good old days" in Germany, where
you could go as fast as you like on the Autobahn...
Pete.
--
"I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
| |
|
| On 18 Feb., 01:40, "Pete Dashwood"
<dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
> "HeyBub" <hey...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
snip...
>..., but sometimes I do long for the "good old days" in Germany, where
> you could go as fast as you like on the Autobahn...
>
> Pete.
> --
> "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
Pete, that must have been a while ago, these days most of the Autobahn
have a speed limit, are cram-full, or both. There are a few places
where you can go as fast as you want, but they are getting rare.
Hansj
| |
| Pete Dashwood 2008-02-18, 7:55 am |
|
--
"I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
"HansJ" <hjigel@kup.de> wrote in message
news:bead496d-337c-4375-83fc-f1ef8c87fedc@n77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On 18 Feb., 01:40, "Pete Dashwood"
> <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
> snip...
>
> Pete, that must have been a while ago, these days most of the Autobahn
> have a speed limit, are cram-full, or both. There are a few places
> where you can go as fast as you want, but they are getting rare.
>
> Hansj
Yes, by "the good old days" I meant 20 years ago...:-)
The last time I was in Germany (4 years ago), I noticed it was pretty much
as you describe...
Eventually, Germany will probably have to bow to Euro-pressure and there
will be nowhere where you can experience speed and freedom except on the
track. (I had a rally competition licence for some years (when I was in my
20s) and even competed occasionally, but I'm much too old now...:-))
Schade!... nuer fliegen ist schoener... :-) (I also have an American private
pilot's licence which I never use now... I've been told I can upgrade it to
a NZ helicopter licence if I buy 20 hours of tuition. I'm thinking about it
as a retirement project; could be fun :-) The problem is staying fit enough
to pass the medical. At the moment I'm fine but I think I would need lasik
eye surgery by the time I come to do this...)
Pete.
--
"I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
| |
| Alistair 2008-02-20, 6:55 pm |
| On 18 Feb, 10:30, HansJ <hji...@kup.de> wrote:
> On 18 Feb., 01:40, "Pete Dashwood"
>
> <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
> snip...
>
>
> Pete, that must have been a while ago, these days most of the Autobahn
> have a speed limit, are cram-full, or both. There are a few places
> where you can go as fast as you want, but they are getting rare.
>
> Hansj
And even where there is no limit, the police can pull you over if they
consider your speed to be dangerous for the road conditions and
traffic.
| |
| Judson McClendon 2008-02-20, 6:55 pm |
| "Alistair" <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> HansJ <hji...@kup.de> wrote:
>
> And even where there is no limit, the police can pull you over if they
> consider your speed to be dangerous for the road conditions and
> traffic.
The last I knew, the state of Montana had such a policy. Except for the
years when they imposed the 55 MPH speed limit because of Federal
regulations, Montana often does not have a posted speed limit in wide
open country, which they have lots of (Montana 147,165 sq mi is larger
than Germany 137,847 sq mi). If the cops think you're going too fast,
they stop you for "reckless driving" not "speeding."
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
| Robert 2008-02-20, 6:55 pm |
| On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:52:32 -0600, "Judson McClendon" <judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
>"Alistair" <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>The last I knew, the state of Montana had such a policy. Except for the
>years when they imposed the 55 MPH speed limit because of Federal
>regulations, Montana often does not have a posted speed limit in wide
>open country, which they have lots of (Montana 147,165 sq mi is larger
>than Germany 137,847 sq mi). If the cops think you're going too fast,
>they stop you for "reckless driving" not "speeding."
"Montana technically had no speed limit whatsoever until June 1999, after the Montana
legislature met in regular session and enacted a new law. The law's practical effect was
to require posted limits on all roads and disallow any speed limit higher than 75 mph (120
km/h)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Speed...#Montan
a
"Texas statutorily allows the Texas Department of Transportation to post 75 mph (120 km/h)
speed limits in counties with average populations of fewer than 15 people per square mile.
The same statute also allows 80 mph (130 km/h) speed limits on I-10 and I-20 in certain
counties named in the statute, all of which happen to be rural, in west Texas, and have a
low population density.
Because Texas law allows 75 mph speed limits on any road numbered by the state or federal
government, it is the only state with 75 mph limits on two-lane roads. Several west Texas
two-lane roads carry 75 mph limits, including portions of US 90. No other state has a
limit higher than 70 mph on any two-lane road.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Speed...d_80_mph_limits
| |
| Judson McClendon 2008-02-21, 6:55 pm |
| "Robert" <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
> "Montana technically had no speed limit whatsoever until June 1999, after the Montana
> legislature met in regular session and enacted a new law. The law's practical effect was
> to require posted limits on all roads and disallow any speed limit higher than 75 mph (120
> km/h)."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Speed...#Montan
a
>
> "Texas statutorily allows the Texas Department of Transportation to post 75 mph (120 km/h)
> speed limits in counties with average populations of fewer than 15 people per square mile.
> The same statute also allows 80 mph (130 km/h) speed limits on I-10 and I-20 in certain
> counties named in the statute, all of which happen to be rural, in west Texas, and have a
> low population density.
>
> Because Texas law allows 75 mph speed limits on any road numbered by the state or federal
> government, it is the only state with 75 mph limits on two-lane roads. Several west Texas
> two-lane roads carry 75 mph limits, including portions of US 90. No other state has a
> limit higher than 70 mph on any two-lane road.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Speed...d_80_mph_limits
To people who haven't been to the western United States, such high speed
limits may seem excessive. But there are many areas in the western U.S.
where there is no vegetation larger than grass, where the terrain is
totally flat, the road is absolutely straight, the nearest hills,
buildings, vehicles, or people are clearly visible and up to 20 or even
60 miles away. You might only meet another vehicle every half hour or
more. In such conditions, there is absolutely nothing to run into, even
if you wanted. Some of the flattest places on Earth, as well as many
very mountainous areas, are in the western U.S.
I've travelled through the western U.S. a number of times, and there is
beautiful scenery of many kinds, including vast areas of stark desolation.
About 6 years ago I was traveling with my family west on Interstate 70
through Utah. We filled up with gas just before leaving Colorado. The
very next gas station (in fact, the very next building) was 100 miles
(160 km). We filled up again there, and the very next gas station (and
building) after that was another 100 miles (160 km). The Utah desert is
vast, and as beautiful as anything like it that I ever saw. Anyone
travelling in that general area should also see Monument Valley in SE
Utah. The stunning scenery is instantly recognizable to anyone who has
seen many American Westerns, especially the older ones.
www.americansouthwest.net/utah/monument_valley/
The Grand Canyon begins in that area, and continues SW into northern
Arizona. South of Monument Valley, the Painted Desert extends down to
about I40 between Flagstaff, AZ and Gallup, NM. East of Flagstaff and a
few miles south of I40, is Meteor Crater, which is about a mile across.
The final scenes in the movie Starman were filmed at Meteor Crater. As
you approach the crater, the rim looks like a small mountain range.
www.americansouthwest.net/arizona/m...ater/index.html
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
| Howard Brazee 2008-02-21, 6:55 pm |
| On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:06:13 -0600, "Judson McClendon"
<judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
>To people who haven't been to the western United States, such high speed
>limits may seem excessive. But there are many areas in the western U.S.
>where there is no vegetation larger than grass, where the terrain is
>totally flat, the road is absolutely straight, the nearest hills,
>buildings, vehicles, or people are clearly visible and up to 20 or even
>60 miles away. You might only meet another vehicle every half hour or
>more. In such conditions, there is absolutely nothing to run into, even
>if you wanted. Some of the flattest places on Earth, as well as many
>very mountainous areas, are in the western U.S.
While I agree that most speed limits that are set for safety reasons
are designed for a lowest common denominator, I will note that in that
scenario such animals as armadillos can cause real accidents - which
animals can be hard to see even a hundred yards away.
| |
| Judson McClendon 2008-02-21, 6:55 pm |
| "Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
> "Judson McClendon" <judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
>
> While I agree that most speed limits that are set for safety reasons
> are designed for a lowest common denominator, I will note that in that
> scenario such animals as armadillos can cause real accidents - which
> animals can be hard to see even a hundred yards away.
True. I once was driving through Wyoming just as the daylight was starting
to fade. I was driving about 90MPH on a long empty Interstate (Interstates
are fenced) when I noticed a deer standing 100 feet away in the adjacent
lane of the highway, facing toward my lane. Had the deer stood still, my car
would have passed within 2 feet of it. The road surface along there was a
tawny beige from the rock color in the area, which was very close to the
color of the deer, and why I didn't see it earlier. There was no time to brake
or swerve. Had the deer jumped in the direction it was facing, it would have
come right through the windshield. Thankfully, the deer turned and jumped
the other way. Heart pounding, I slowed down below the speed limit, and
within 2 or 3 minutes met an oncoming State Trooper. Even at the speed
limit, that would have been dangerous.
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
| HeyBub 2008-02-21, 6:55 pm |
| Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:06:13 -0600, "Judson McClendon"
> <judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
>
>
> While I agree that most speed limits that are set for safety reasons
> are designed for a lowest common denominator, I will note that in that
> scenario such animals as armadillos can cause real accidents - which
> animals can be hard to see even a hundred yards away.
There are few armadillos in Utah (four, to be precise, in the Salt Lake City
Zoo).
Armadillo stories follow:
We in Texas are used to them and know what to do.
Recently, however, 'dillers have moved as far north as Tennessee. The
director of the Tennessee highway department recently saw fit to publish an
information bulletin regarding these interlopers from the south. "Do not
honk at armadillos," said the memo. When frightened, they jump vertically to
about windshield height."
A courtesy warning honk may cause the equivalent of a bowling ball hitting
your windscreen at 60 MPH.
I once offered to trade an armadillo for "Harriet," the semi-pet groundhog
at the Audubon Society of Western Pennsylvania's nature sanctuary.
"Good Lord, no!" said the director. "Can you imagine what would happen to
the granny ladies walking our bird-watching trails if an armadillo stepped
out in front of them?"
When I was a lad an armadillo ran into our boy scout camp at night. Waa-hoo!
Chase the 'diller! (they run about as fast as a chicken). The armadillo
scooted into a tent and directly into the sleeping bag of one of our troop
members. The sleeping scout awoke, quite abruptly, to something ferocious
clawing his legs and feet. In a fit of adrenaline frenzy, he RIPPED the
sleeping bag asunder in order to escape the forest fiend that was obviously
trying to kill him and suck his blood!
From the knee down, the no-longer sleeping scount was covered in dirt,
blood, and (most disgustingly of all) green ooze better known as armadillo
shit. The inside of his sleeping bag was likewise defaced.
The sleeping bag went on the campfire, the scout victim went for life-long
counseling, and the rest of us had a good laugh.
Yes, armadillos are entertaining creatures.
| |
| HeyBub 2008-02-21, 6:55 pm |
| Judson McClendon wrote:
>
> To people who haven't been to the western United States, such high
> speed limits may seem excessive. But there are many areas in the
> western U.S. where there is no vegetation larger than grass, where
> the terrain is totally flat, the road is absolutely straight, the
> nearest hills, buildings, vehicles, or people are clearly visible and
> up to 20 or even 60 miles away. You might only meet another vehicle
> every half hour or more. In such conditions, there is absolutely
> nothing to run into, even if you wanted. Some of the flattest places
> on Earth, as well as many very mountainous areas, are in the western U.S.
Yep, but not far away (in U.S. distance terms) exist the largest living
things on the planet. Giant redwoods and sequoia trees stretch upwards 100
meters and are 10-12 meters in diameter at the base. Some were old when
Christ was born.
>
> I've travelled through the western U.S. a number of times, and there
> is beautiful scenery of many kinds, including vast areas of stark
> desolation. About 6 years ago I was traveling with my family west on
> Interstate 70 through Utah. We filled up with gas just before leaving
> Colorado. The very next gas station (in fact, the very next building)
> was 100 miles (160 km). We filled up again there, and the very next
> gas station (and building) after that was another 100 miles (160 km).
We have that same over-crowding in some parts of Texas.
By way of comparison, Montana is larger than Germany. Utah is almost as
large as the UK.
| |
| Judson McClendon 2008-02-21, 6:55 pm |
| "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
> Judson McClendon wrote:
>
> Yep, but not far away (in U.S. distance terms) exist the largest living things on the planet. Giant redwoods and sequoia trees
> stretch upwards 100 meters and are 10-12 meters in diameter at the base. Some were old when Christ was born.
The redwood forests in northern California and Oregon are my favorite
place to visit in the U.S., and my second favorite place is Niagara Falls.
Both are truly awesome.
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
| Robert 2008-02-21, 9:55 pm |
| On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:18:59 -0700, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:06:13 -0600, "Judson McClendon"
><judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
>
>
>While I agree that most speed limits that are set for safety reasons
>are designed for a lowest common denominator, I will note that in that
>scenario such animals as armadillos can cause real accidents - which
>animals can be hard to see even a hundred yards away.
I was driving across Utah on a BLACK two lane road, in a BMW, at 100 mph, at NIGHT, when I
saw a glint of light reflected from an animal's eye a quarter mile ahead. I slowed down
just in time. Standing in the middle of the road was a whole herd of BLACK Angus cattle.
I had to get out and drive them individually off the road. Utah has 'open range', meaning
no fence required.
Eyeshine is caused by a structure called the tapetum lucidum. Not all species have it, for
instance humans, pigs and most birds don't. If they had been a flock of turkey vultures,
or if one of them hadn't looked at me, there would have been a serious accident. If you
think hitting a 120 pound deer is bad, imagine hitting a whole herd of 600 pound cattle.
Animals are the primary reason why speed limits are lower at night.
| |
| HeyBub 2008-02-22, 6:55 pm |
| Robert wrote:
>
> I was driving across Utah on a BLACK two lane road, in a BMW, at 100
> mph, at NIGHT, when I saw a glint of light reflected from an animal's
> eye a quarter mile ahead. I slowed down just in time. Standing in the
> middle of the road was a whole herd of BLACK Angus cattle. I had to
> get out and drive them individually off the road. Utah has 'open
> range', meaning no fence required.
>
> Eyeshine is caused by a structure called the tapetum lucidum. Not all
> species have it, for instance humans, pigs and most birds don't. If
> they had been a flock of turkey vultures, or if one of them hadn't
> looked at me, there would have been a serious accident. If you think
> hitting a 120 pound deer is bad, imagine hitting a whole herd of 600
> pound cattle.
>
> Animals are the primary reason why speed limits are lower at night.
You left a "2" off the front of "...600 pound cattle."
| |
| Judson McClendon 2008-02-22, 6:55 pm |
| "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>
> You left a "2" off the front of "...600 pound cattle."
Well, a "1" maybe. For the beef cattle we grew on our farm, a large
bull might be around 1,400-1,800 pounds. That's a Very Large animal.
I can't imagine a 2,600 pound cow. :-)
We once had a 1,400 pound bull that decided he wanted to go through
a gate barred off by three 2x4s, and he splintered them like toothpicks.
Bulls and large hogs are so strong, the only reason fences hold them in
is because they aren't motivated to break them down. A hog will literally
tear down a fence to get to a snake, because hogs hate snakes and kill
them on sight. Their skin is so tough, the snake can't do much harm in
the 2 seconds before it's dead. A large  hog is a fearsome thing.
Contrary to popular belief, hogs are actually somewhat fastidious
animals. They will select a corner of their pen as a latrine, and only
wallow in mud to keep  ; they don't have sweat glands. Their
digestive systems are similar to humans'. :-)
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
| Doug Miller 2008-02-22, 6:55 pm |
| In article <5udsr3h8b690m127bkheh5ktlgvh8e3jsr@4ax.com>, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>Eyeshine is caused by a structure called the tapetum lucidum. Not all species have it, for
>instance humans, pigs and most birds don't. If they had been a flock of turkey vultures,
>or if one of them hadn't looked at me, there would have been a serious accident. If you
>think hitting a 120 pound deer is bad, imagine hitting a whole herd of 600 pound cattle.
600 pounds is a calf.
>
>Animals are the primary reason why speed limits are lower at night.
Except that speed limits are *not* lower at night, anywhere that I've ever
driven -- which includes the four most populous provinces in Canada, and every
state in the US except Alaska and Hawaii. I've *never* seen a sign listing
different speed limits for day and night.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphag at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| Judson McClendon 2008-02-23, 3:55 am |
| "Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote:
>
> Except that speed limits are *not* lower at night, anywhere that I've ever
> driven -- which includes the four most populous provinces in Canada, and every
> state in the US except Alaska and Hawaii. I've *never* seen a sign listing
> different speed limits for day and night.
Either you are very young or just didn't notice it, but I guarantee you've
seen them. Speeds on 2-lane roads used to be almost always different
between day and night, in almost every state. Now it is not as common.
But you don't see "day speeds" and "night speeds" posted as such; the
signs actually change when viewed in sunlight or auto lights. In daylight
the sign reads "60" and at night in car headlights the same sign reads
"50", or whatever the posted speeds are. Not sure exactly what principle
the signs use, but it was common at least back in the early 1960's when
I began driving.
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
| Doug Miller 2008-02-23, 3:55 am |
| In article <lVKvj.94514$_m.52625@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "Judson McClendon" <judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
>"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote:
> every
>
>Either you are very young or just didn't notice it, but I guarantee you've
>seen them. Speeds on 2-lane roads used to be almost always different
>between day and night, in almost every state. Now it is not as common.
I never drive on two-lane roads except when I have no choice; that might
explain part of it.
>But you don't see "day speeds" and "night speeds" posted as such; the
>signs actually change when viewed in sunlight or auto lights. In daylight
>the sign reads "60" and at night in car headlights the same sign reads
>"50", or whatever the posted speeds are. Not sure exactly what principle
>the signs use, but it was common at least back in the early 1960's when
>I began driving.
Ahh, that would explain the rest: you're a good bit older than I am.
I certainly wouldn't describe myself as "very young" -- I'm not yet 50, but
I'm well past 40 -- but in comparison to someone who began driving in the
early 1960s, I suppose perhaps I am. <g>
I've not seen signs such as you describe on any interstate highways, ever.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphag at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| Robert 2008-02-23, 3:55 am |
| On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:16:43 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>In article <5udsr3h8b690m127bkheh5ktlgvh8e3jsr@4ax.com>, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
>
>600 pounds is a calf.
>
>Except that speed limits are *not* lower at night, anywhere that I've ever
>driven -- which includes the four most populous provinces in Canada, and every
>state in the US except Alaska and Hawaii. I've *never* seen a sign listing
>different speed limits for day and night.
You've never been in Florida or Texas.
"Florida typically does not post night speed limits, but there are a few exceptions. When
they do, these signs are black with white writing. They say the word "NIGHT" with the
numeric speed posted below this word, also colored white. For the most part, these night
time reduced speeds are located in wildlife preserves for such endangered species as the
Florida panther and the key deer. On some stretches of road where the speed limit is
reduced at night, the daytime speed limit sign is non-reflective so at night, only the
night limit is visible.
Texas is the only state with a universal, arbitrary night speed limit. Texas statutorily
prescribes:
* a blanket 65 mph (105 km/h) night speed limit on roads with a speed limit of at
least 70 mph (110 km/h).[54] While the Texas Department of Transportation has the power to
lower this night speed limit or raise it to 70 mph, it in fact rarely does, so nearly
every 70 mph or higher speed limit sign has an accompanying 65 mph night speed limit
sign."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_...e_United_States
| |
| Robert 2008-02-23, 3:55 am |
| On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:03:57 -0600, "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
>Robert wrote:
>
>You left a "2" off the front of "...600 pound cattle."
You sound like a city slicker, totally out of touch with nature, who thinks cattle weigh
"a ton". I'm guessing you would have been terrified to get out of the car and shove the
cattle off the road.
| |
|
| In article <h42vr3hkmnmt6umca1r51e02muggv2mecm@4ax.com>,
Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:03:57 -0600, "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
>You sound like a city slicker, totally out of touch with nature, who
>thinks cattle weigh
>"a ton".
1) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ton, 3: a great quantity :
lot <ate tons of cookies> <has tons of money> <a ton of work to do>
2) Anyone who tries to mention 'nature' and cattle-ranching in the same
sentence (except to point out how one excludes or is at odds with the
other) sounds like a shill for Agribusiness.
(hmmmmmm... folks refer to the international conglomerates which
manufacture drugs as 'Big Pharma'; might it be time to refer to
Agribusiness as 'Big Farma'?)
DD
| |
| HeyBub 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| Robert wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:03:57 -0600, "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> You sound like a city slicker, totally out of touch with nature, who
> thinks cattle weigh "a ton". I'm guessing you would have been
> terrified to get out of the car and shove the cattle off the road.
You're partially right. It's unlikely that the entire heard was comprised of
2,600 pound steers.
However, I'm guessing you don't know jack about cows. Some cattle weigh more
than a ton. There are even horses that weigh that much.
German Angus:
Cows: height: 125 - 140 cm, weight: 600 - 700 kg Bullen: height: 135 - 150
cm, weight: 950 - 1,200 kg [2,050 - 2,600 lbs]
Your guess about me being terrified is similarily off the mark. Angus you
can shoo off the road; Longhorns, better not try. Nasty critters, Longhorns.
They remind me of my first wife...
You must understand, I'm in Texas. I even own a pair of boots. And a hat. I
attend our city's largest cultural event* religiously: The Houston Live
Stock Show and Rodeo. Every year.
We take cows seriously in Texas.
http://www.cowswithguns.com/cowmovie.html
I suggest that, in future, you confine your mockery to subjects with which
you are intimately familiar, such as (and I'm guessing, here) weasels,
volume of a cone, string collecting, repair of vintage roller skates, and
the design of manhole covers, while leaving comments about cows to your
betters.
-----
*More people attend the rodeo during its ten-day run (almost 2 million) than
the attendance of the Astros, Texans, or Rockets sports teams for the year.
| |
| Judson McClendon 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| "Bill Gunshannon" <billg999@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:
> "Judson McClendon" <judmc@sunvaley0.com> writes:
>
> I have been driving for 45 years. I have driven in every state east of
> the Mississippi except Maine and all of the states that comprise what
> is known as the southwest and you can throw in California, too. I have
> never seen a posted speed limit different at night than in the daytime.
Well, since I have seen *thousands* of them, have worked in and around
county and state government for some 40 years, designed the current and
previous vehicle license system used by at least two counties, designed
costing systems used by the road departments of two counties, the man
who was this county's chief civil engineer for many years is a personal
friend, know for a fact that the signs exist, have seen them on the highway,
in warehouses and in trucks being deployed, that I drive by such signs
within 2 miles of my house, what do you suggest that I conclude from
your statements? :-)
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
| Judson McClendon 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| "Judson McClendon" <judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
> "Bill Gunshannon" <billg999@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:
>
> Well, since I have seen *thousands* of them, have worked in and around
> county and state government for some 40 years, designed the current and
> previous vehicle license system used by at least two counties, designed
> costing systems used by the road departments of two counties, the man
> who was this county's chief civil engineer for many years is a personal
> friend, know for a fact that the signs exist, have seen them on the highway,
> in warehouses and in trucks being deployed, that I drive by such signs
> within 2 miles of my house, what do you suggest that I conclude from
> your statements? :-)
Addenda:
#1 http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-attud/list.html)
Minnesota (7/02/97)
... and on other 2 - lane highways under State jurisdiction to
65 mph during day time and 60 mph at night. ...
Montana (2/16/97)
... Nighttime speed limit of 65 mph for interstates, 55 for others ...
#2 http://www.dot.state.mn.us/speed/mn...html#regulatory
2B-11 Night Speed Sign (R2-3)
Where different speed limits are prescribed for day and night, both
the limits shall be posted. This may be done in either of two ways:
1. Immediately below the Standard Speed Limit sign (R2-1) or combined
with it, a Night Speed sign (R2-3) carrying the legend NIGHT 45 (or
other suitable numerical limit) may be erected. In this case the
numerals in the Night Speed sign and only the words SPEED LIMIT in
the standard sign, should be reflectorized. As a special but logical
exception to the general color scheme, the Night Speed sign should
have its legend in white upon a black background.
2. A changeable message sign may be used, so that only the appropriate
regulation is visible at a given time. The sign may have interchangeable
panels, or reflectorization of the nighttime speed superimposed over the
unreflectorized numerals of the daytime speed, to permit only the
nighttime speed to become legible in the beam of motor-vehicle headlamps
at night.
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
| Doug Miller 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
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In article <aj1vr35dqvfreknd8dcaatgv9pkad1hcf3@4ax.com>, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:16:43 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
> wrote:
> have it, for
> turkey vultures,
> accident. If you
> pound cattle.
>
>You've never been in Florida or Texas.
Not quite right -- never drove in the parts of Florida that contain wildlife
preserves. And haven't been in Texas since the 55mph speed limit was repealed.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphag at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| Doug Miller 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| In article <h42vr3hkmnmt6umca1r51e02muggv2mecm@4ax.com>, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:03:57 -0600, "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>You sound like a city slicker, totally out of touch with nature, who thinks
> cattle weigh
>"a ton". I'm guessing you would have been terrified to get out of the car and
> shove the
>cattle off the road.
You're evidently a city slicker yourself, if you think that full-grown Black
Angus cattle weigh only six hundred pounds.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphag at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| SkippyPB 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:50:11 -0600, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:03:57 -0600, "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>You sound like a city slicker, totally out of touch with nature, who thinks cattle weigh
>"a ton". I'm guessing you would have been terrified to get out of the car and shove the
>cattle off the road.
Mature cattle (cows to steers) can weigh (and must weigh before being
slaughtered) between 955 lbs. to 1550. Heifer's at slaughter must
weigh between 700 to 1400 lbs. Their weight depends on their frame
size.
Now there are certainly some Brahma bulls running around that top 1550
lbs. but I think we were talking about cows here.
Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"Have I learned from my mistakes? Yes, I believe
I could repeat them all exactly the same."
-- Kurt Vonnegut
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove nospam to email me.
Steve
| |
| Doug Miller 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| In article <RsXvj.101138$N67.9895@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Judson McClendon" <judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
>Well, since I have seen *thousands* of them, have worked in and around
>county and state government for some 40 years, designed the current and
>previous vehicle license system used by at least two counties, designed
>costing systems used by the road departments of two counties, the man
>who was this county's chief civil engineer for many years is a personal
>friend, know for a fact that the signs exist, have seen them on the highway,
>in warehouses and in trucks being deployed, that I drive by such signs
>within 2 miles of my house, what do you suggest that I conclude from
>your statements? :-)
That you're atypical? <g>
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphag at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| Robert 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:10:01 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf@panix.com () wrote:
>In article <h42vr3hkmnmt6umca1r51e02muggv2mecm@4ax.com>,
>Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>
>1) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ton, 3: a great quantity :
>lot <ate tons of cookies> <has tons of money> <a ton of work to do>
>
>2) Anyone who tries to mention 'nature' and cattle-ranching in the same
>sentence (except to point out how one excludes or is at odds with the
>other) sounds like a shill for Agribusiness.
>
>(hmmmmmm... folks refer to the international conglomerates which
>manufacture drugs as 'Big Pharma'; might it be time to refer to
>Agribusiness as 'Big Farma'?)
Open range ranching, called 'cow-calf operation', is close to natural. Although the
species are man-made, animals forage for food and reproduce in the same way their (now
extinct) natural ancestors did.
The feedlot is where Agribusiness, aka factory farming, enters the picture. Generally,
cows and steers are moved from range to feedlot when they weigh 600-700 pounds. They gain
400 pounds in the feedlot, on a diet of corn and soybeans, before being slaughtered.
The only places where 1,000+ pound cattle are found are a) in feedlots just before
slaughter and b) breeding stock i.e. non-castrated bulls, c) draft oxen and d) dairy cows.
a), c) and d) are not found in the Utah desert.
| |
| Robert 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:15:56 -0600, "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
>Robert wrote:
>
>You're partially right. It's unlikely that the entire heard was comprised of
>2,600 pound steers.
>
>However, I'm guessing you don't know jack about cows. Some cattle weigh more
>than a ton. There are even horses that weigh that much.
>German Angus:
>Cows: height: 125 - 140 cm, weight: 600 - 700 kg Bullen: height: 135 - 150
>cm, weight: 950 - 1,200 kg [2,050 - 2,600 lbs]
Those are weights of mature, non-castrated adults. Few beef cattle reach adulthood.
>Your guess about me being terrified is similarily off the mark. Angus you
>can shoo off the road; Longhorns, better not try. Nasty critters, Longhorns.
>They remind me of my first wife...
Correct. Longhorns are not commercial, they're raised by hobby ranchers.
>You must understand, I'm in Texas. I even own a pair of boots. And a hat. I
>attend our city's largest cultural event* religiously: The Houston Live
>Stock Show and Rodeo. Every year.
I lived in Lubbock for twenty years, were I attended the Cowboy Symposium most years. For
those who don't know, the Cowboy Symposium is for real cowboys, not urban wannabes.
I lived in Houston's Galleria district for a few months recently. I saw many expensive
cars and good restaurants, no cattle.
>We take cows seriously in Texas.
>
>http://www.cowswithguns.com/cowmovie.html
Cows on Harleys is drugstore cowboy crap.
>I suggest that, in future, you confine your mockery to subjects with which
>you are intimately familiar, such as (and I'm guessing, here) weasels,
Bingo. I have two ferrets.
>volume of a cone, string collecting, repair of vintage roller skates, and
>the design of manhole covers, while leaving comments about cows to your
>betters.
Bad news for urban cowboys: Gilley's is closed. Billy Bob's is still open, but it's in
Fort Worth.
| |
| HeyBub 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>
> I have been driving for 45 years. I have driven in every state east
> of the Mississippi except Maine and all of the states that comprise
> what is known as the southwest and you can throw in California, too.
> I have never seen a posted speed limit different at night than in the
> daytime.
>
I'm in Texas. We don't pay much attention to speed limit signs either.
| |
| Alistair 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| On 21 Feb, 20:10, "HeyBub" <hey...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Judson McClendon wrote:
>
>
> Yep, but not far away (in U.S. distance terms) exist the largest living
> things on the planet. Giant redwoods and sequoia trees stretch upwards 100
> meters and are 10-12 meters in diameter at the base. Some were old when
> Christ was born.
I'll give you that Sequoias are large but they are not the largest
living thing on the planet. There are at least two fungae infested
forests in the USA where the fungae are genetically identical (being
connected by mycaelia from one end to the other) at opposite ends of
the forests and throughout the range. I can not be specific about the
size of each organism but either the largest one is 25 miles long end
to end or covers at least 25 square miles. A trifle bigger than a
sequoia and, possibly, slightly more edible.
| |
| Alistair 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| On 22 Feb, 03:52, Robert <n...@e.mail> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:18:59 -0700, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> I was driving across Utah on a BLACK two lane road, in a BMW, at 100 mph, at NIGHT, when I
> saw a glint of light reflected from an animal's eye a quarter mile ahead. I slowed down
> just in time. Standing in the middle of the road was a whole herd of BLACK Angus cattle.
> I had to get out and drive them individually off the road. Utah has 'open range', meaning
> no fence required.
>
> Eyeshine is caused by a structure called the tapetum lucidum. Not all species have it, for
> instance humans, pigs and most birds don't.
Known tapetum structures include:
Retinal tapetum in teleosts, crocodiles, marsupials and fruit bats.
Choroidal guanine tapetum in elasmobranchii.
Choroidal tapetum cellulosum in carnivores, rodents and cetacea.
Choroidal tapetum fibrosum in cows, sheep, goats and horses.
Interestingly, dolphins have tapetums too.
| |
| Alistair 2008-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| On 22 Feb, 23:20, "Judson McClendon" <ju...@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
> "HeyBub" <hey...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, a "1" maybe. For the beef cattle we grew on our farm, a large
> bull might be around 1,400-1,800 pounds. That's a Very Large animal.
> I can't imagine a 2,600 pound cow. :-)
I know one. The XXXXX lives 400 yards down the road from me.
>
> We once had a 1,400 pound bull that decided he wanted to go through
> a gate barred off by three 2x4s, and he splintered them like toothpicks.
> Bulls and large hogs are so strong, the only reason fences hold them in
> is because they aren't motivated to break them down. A hog will literally
> tear down a fence to get to a snake, because hogs hate snakes and kill
> them on sight. Their skin is so tough, the snake can't do much harm in
> the 2 seconds before it's dead. A large hog is a fearsome thing.
I remember holding on to a five bar gate as a male hog lifted it 4
foot in the air (me with it) as he tried to make a break for freedom.
It didn't work as he ended up in the slaughter house anyway.
>
> Contrary to popular belief, hogs are actually somewhat fastidious
> animals. They will select a corner of their pen as a latrine, and only
> wallow in mud to keep ; they don't have sweat glands. Their
> digestive systems are similar to humans'. :-)
Their skin is so similar to human skin that pigs are used in
experiments to work out what chemicals will do to human skin.
| |
| Robert 2008-02-23, 9:57 pm |
| On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 15:10:29 -0800 (PST), Alistair <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 21 Feb, 20:10, "HeyBub" <hey...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I'll give you that Sequoias are large but they are not the largest
>living thing on the planet. There are at least two fungae infested
>forests in the USA where the fungae are genetically identical (being
>connected by mycaelia from one end to the other) at opposite ends of
>the forests and throughout the range. I can not be specific about the
>size of each organism but either the largest one is 25 miles long end
>to end or covers at least 25 square miles. A trifle bigger than a
>sequoia and, possibly, slightly more edible.
-- quotation --
The Aspen tree (Populus tremuloides) forms large stands of genetically identical trees
(technically, stems) connected by a single underground root system. These trees form
through root sprouts coming off an original parent tree, though the root system may not
remain a single unit in all specimens. The largest known fully-connected Aspen is a grove
in Utah nicknamed Pando, and some experts call it the largest organism in the world, by
mass or volume. It covers 43 hectares (.43 kmē) and is estimated to weigh 6,600 tons.
A giant fungus of the species Armillaria ostoyae in the Malheur National Forest in Oregon
was found to span 8.9 kmē (2,200 acres), which would make it the largest organism by area.
Whether or not this is an actual individual organism, however, is disputed: some tests
have indicated that they have the same genetic makeup, but unless its mycelium is fully
connected, it is a clonal colony of numerous smaller individuals.
Another clonal colony that rivals the Armillaria and the Populus colonies in size is a
strand of the giant marine plant, Posidonia oceanica, discovered in the Mediterranean Sea
near the Balearic Islands. It covers a band roughly 8 km (4.3 miles) in length. Although
this plant has not been proven to be a single connected organism, all the samples do have
the same DNA. It may also be the oldest living organism in the world, with an estimated
age of 100,000 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_organism
| |
|
| In article <ver0s39askk94rr6vj9503b18vgdllssm9@4ax.com>,
Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:10:01 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf@panix.com () wrote:
>
>
>Open range ranching, called 'cow-calf operation', is close to natural.
>Although the
>species are man-made, animals forage for food and reproduce in the same
>way their (now
>extinct) natural ancestors did.
.... which might be a reason why, according to South Dakota State
Historical Society, 'open-range cattle industry lasted roughly from 1850
to 1900'.
(This end-date is echoed by
http://www.nps.gov/grko/historyculture/openrange.htm , 'He secured water
rights in his 1899 purchase of the N-N Ranch in eastern Montana, enabling
'Montana's Cattle King' to continue to prosper on a million-acre spread
even as the open range disappeared.' and
http://www.pc.gc.ca/lhn-nhs/ab/baru/natcul/index_e.asp , 'From 1881 to
1902, Fred Stimson and the North West Cattle Company practised open range
ranching.')
If one wishes to cite practises gone out-of-practise a century back...
well, so much for most antibiotic treatments; Salvarsan wasn't discovered
until 1910. You'd be welcome, however, to code for micro-efficiencies...
keep those loops *tight*, Mr Wagner!
DD
| |
| SkippyPB 2008-02-24, 6:55 pm |
| On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:32:58 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <h42vr3hkmnmt6umca1r51e02muggv2mecm@4ax.com>, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
>You're evidently a city slicker yourself, if you think that full-grown Black
>Angus cattle weigh only six hundred pounds.
I was speaking about your everyday, run of the mill, milk and feed cow
and/or steer. Black Angus are a different story altogether and
weren't listed in the OP's message.
Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"Have I learned from my mistakes? Yes, I believe
I could repeat them all exactly the same."
-- Kurt Vonnegut
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove nospam to email me.
Steve
| |
| Doug Miller 2008-02-24, 6:55 pm |
| In article <cj73s3l4e57s075evb01gjfrm667cc8t42@4ax.com>, SkippyPB <swiegand@nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:32:58 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
> wrote:
>
>I was speaking about your everyday, run of the mill, milk and feed cow
>and/or steer. Black Angus are a different story altogether and
>weren't listed in the OP's message.
They certainly were; see the relevant portion of the original post, above,
which you even quoted.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphag at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| Robert 2008-02-24, 6:55 pm |
| On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 07:51:01 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf@panix.com () wrote:
>In article <ver0s39askk94rr6vj9503b18vgdllssm9@4ax.com>,
>Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
>... which might be a reason why, according to South Dakota State
>Historical Society, 'open-range cattle industry lasted roughly from 1850
>to 1900'.
>
>(This end-date is echoed by
>http://www.nps.gov/grko/historyculture/openrange.htm , 'He secured water
>rights in his 1899 purchase of the N-N Ranch in eastern Montana, enabling
>'Montana's Cattle King' to continue to prosper on a million-acre spread
>even as the open range disappeared.' and
>http://www.pc.gc.ca/lhn-nhs/ab/baru/natcul/index_e.asp , 'From 1881 to
>1902, Fred Stimson and the North West Cattle Company practised open range
>ranching.')
"Thirteen Western states still have some kind of open-range law, according to The
Associated Press. Yet as the West fills in, more people moving into rural neighborhoods
are bothered by livestock straying onto their property, and increased traffic means more
accidents involving livestock that stray onto roads. Every year, about a thousand
motorists hit livestock on roads in Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming and Utah, and several
die, according to research by The Oregonian newspaper in 1997."
[letter responding to the above article]
I live in New Mexico. We own land, have the title, and it is open range out here. That
means motorist are to slow down and the motorist are at fault if they hit one of my cows.
My problem here is the kids driving so fast they have no clue what could happen. I have
chased them down, told them what the law is here, but they don't seem to care. I'm fed up
with this and I'm ready to go back to the old west style, get the gun out and start
shooting, maybe then they would understand. My cattle are fenced in around my place. We
had a falling out last year with a neighbor who's cattle kept getting on our land, he let
us know right quick it was our job to keep his cattle off our land. We fixed the fence.
Posted by Anonymous 02/05/2008 @ 22:19:04
http://www.hcn.org/servlets/hcn.Art...rticle_id=14595
>If one wishes to cite practises gone out-of-practise a century back...
>well, so much for most antibiotic treatments; Salvarsan wasn't discovered
>until 1910. You'd be welcome, however, to code for micro-efficiencies...
>keep those loops *tight*, Mr Wagner!
Just the opposite. For maximum speed, you want to UNROLL the loops.
It's ironic to criticize out of date practices in a Cobol newsgroup. :)
| |
| Robert 2008-02-24, 6:55 pm |
| On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:43:42 -0500, SkippyPB <swiegand@nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:32:58 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>
>I was speaking about your everyday, run of the mill, milk and feed cow
>and/or steer. Black Angus are a different story altogether and
>weren't listed in the OP's message.
What do you mean by "milk and feed"? There are two kinds of cattle: beef and dairy. Black
Angus are beef cattle. The most common beef breed is Hereford, which are brown and white
with a white face. The most common dairy breed is Holstein, which are white with black
spots.
Open range cattle are ALL being raised for beef. Dairy cows are kept in barns, in places
like Wisconsin and New England. Even in the West, dairy cows live in barns.
Beef cattle are moved to feedlots when they reach 600 pounds, which happens when they're
one year old. The exception are breeding heifers, young females kept to produce calfs.
They have their first calf when they're between 2 and 3 years old, at which time they
weigh 60-70% of a mature adult, about 700-900 pounds depending on breed. They are
slaughtered after the first calf is weaned.
The only cattle that reach "full-grown" adult weight are dairy cows and breeding bulls.
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| In article <9q73s39js4pltafffufq809fdpeghg2usl@4ax.com>,
Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 07:51:01 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf@panix.com () wrote:
>
>
>"Thirteen Western states still have some kind of open-range law,
>according to The
>Associated Press. Yet as the West fills in, more people moving into
>rural neighborhoods
>are bothered by livestock straying onto their property, and increased
>traffic means more
>accidents involving livestock that stray onto roads. Every year, about a
>thousand
>motorists hit livestock on roads in Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming and
>Utah, and several
>die, according to research by The Oregonian newspaper in 1997."
'Some kind of open-range law' can be anything from 'Yup, everywhere is
open-range' to 'Nope, ain't no place open range'... Mr Wagner, the fact
that microbreweries exist does not invalidate the facts of
Annheiser-Bush's production methods nor their market share.
(Not to mention that things might have changed a bit since 1997... but
saying 'what was valid then is valid now' might be called 'a mainframer's
mentality', something I've seen excoriated.)
DD
| |
| Robert 2008-02-24, 6:55 pm |
| On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:12:25 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf@panix.com () wrote:
>In article <9q73s39js4pltafffufq809fdpeghg2usl@4ax.com>,
>Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
>'Some kind of open-range law' can be anything from 'Yup, everywhere is
>open-range' to 'Nope, ain't no place open range'... Mr Wagner, the fact
>that microbreweries exist does not invalidate the facts of
>Annheiser-Bush's production methods nor their market share.
The term open range is ambiguously defined, depending on whose bull is being gored. For
instance, BLM owns 150 million acres on which it licenses grazing for 1 million head, 12M
AUMs (Animal Unit Months). Opponents say that's not open range because it's open only to
licensees. As a practical matter, it IS open range with a government imposed quota.
The rangeland story is one of land grabs, politics, competition between old-timers and
newcomers, government mismanagement, environmentalist activism/fear-mongering, cattle
versus sheep, ranchers versus farmers, government sponsored irrigation, the cowboy
mistique and yet more politics. When someone says open range ended in 1900, you have to
question the writer's bias.
Macroeconomically, there are 400 million acres of privately owned open range in the US and
250 million acres owned by government. We know from permits that government land hosts 1.5
million head of cattle. By extrapolation, we can estimate the private land hosts another
3-5 million head. The total number of cattle in the US is 100 million. So 5% of it is on
open range.
>(Not to mention that things might have changed a bit since 1997... but
>saying 'what was valid then is valid now' might be called 'a mainframer's
>mentality', something I've seen excoriated.)
A 200 year tradition doesn't suddenly change in 10 years.
| |
|
| In article <ivs3s3l9lrtk86uacuu2c64as75t34kv6t@4ax.com>,
Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:12:25 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf@panix.com () wrote:
>
[snip]
[color=darkred]
[snip]
[color=darkred]
[snip]
[color=darkred]
[snip]
[color=darkred]
>
>The term open range is ambiguously defined, depending on whose bull is
>being gored.
If that is the case, Mr Wagner, you might have been a bit more careful
upon your introducing of it.
DD
| |
| Howard Brazee 2008-02-25, 6:55 pm |
| On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:10:01 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf@panix.com () wrote:
>
>1) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ton, 3: a great quantity :
>lot <ate tons of cookies> <has tons of money> <a ton of work to do>
But in this case, I would expect his ton refers to the top line above
- meaning 2000#.
| |
| Howard Brazee 2008-02-25, 6:55 pm |
| On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 02:29:20 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>
>I never drive on two-lane roads except when I have no choice; that might
>explain part of it.
I've seen them on Interstates. But I hadn't noticed until this
thread that I haven't seen them in a while. I bet they went away
when the speed limits were lowered nationally (threatening to not
bribe the states as a way to circumvent the 9th amendment).
| |
|
| In article <8cm5s3l20ta4ir2lp4ltv5ktflcppuod2s@4ax.com>,
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:10:01 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf@panix.com () wrote:
>
>
>But in this case, I would expect his ton refers to the top line above
>- meaning 2000#.
A possibility... but that might generate a question about the reasons for
enclosing a precise term of measurement in double-quotes.
'Well, there are about 28.27 of these widgets to the ounce... so I think
they each have a mass of "a gram".'
DD
| |
| SkippyPB 2008-02-25, 6:55 pm |
| On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 12:07:50 -0600, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:43:42 -0500, SkippyPB <swiegand@nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>What do you mean by "milk and feed"? There are two kinds of cattle: beef and dairy. Black
>Angus are beef cattle. The most common beef breed is Hereford, which are brown and white
>with a white face. The most common dairy breed is Holstein, which are white with black
>spots.
>
>Open range cattle are ALL being raised for beef. Dairy cows are kept in barns, in places
>like Wisconsin and New England. Even in the West, dairy cows live in barns.
>
>Beef cattle are moved to feedlots when they reach 600 pounds, which happens when they're
>one year old. The exception are breeding heifers, young females kept to produce calfs.
>They have their first calf when they're between 2 and 3 years old, at which time they
>weigh 60-70% of a mature adult, about 700-900 pounds depending on breed. They are
>slaughtered after the first calf is weaned.
>
>The only cattle that reach "full-grown" adult weight are dairy cows and breeding bulls.
Milk cows are sent to slaughter to become hamburger and whatever when
their milk giving days are over.
Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"Marry me and I'll never look at another horse!."
-- Groucho Marx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove nospam to email me.
Steve
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