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Global Warming (yet again) (was: Vista
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| William M. Klein 2008-01-03, 9:56 pm |
| "Robert" <no@e.mail> wrote in message
news:uc1rn39jmrd1ev7am1hfpiqnljn9oclhaf@
4ax.com...
> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 07:08:43 -0600, "Judson McClendon" <judmc@sunvaley0.com>
> wrote:
>
<snip
> Am I the only one who noticed that the global warming debate in CLC ended when
> a big cold
> front hit the central US? :-)
When I was growing up in the Chicago area, I remember one UNUSUAL day that had a
"real" (not wind-chill) temperature of -20(F). I also remember when we would
have multiple days in a row when the temperature never got above zero.
I do NOT think I have seen either of those "extremes" in the Chicago area in the
last decade or so - even if we did get below 0 in some suburbs last night.
Having said that, any one who talks (seriously) about global warming does NOT
talk about "the current temperature in a single location"> I am only posting
this in reply to the thought that a single mid-west cold spell ends MY belief
that global warming is a serious problem - getting progressively worse.
--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
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| Robert 2008-01-25, 6:56 pm |
| On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 03:18:43 GMT, "William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
>"Robert" <no@e.mail> wrote in message
> news:uc1rn39jmrd1ev7am1hfpiqnljn9oclhaf@
4ax.com...
><snip
>
>When I was growing up in the Chicago area, I remember one UNUSUAL day that had a
>"real" (not wind-chill) temperature of -20(F). I also remember when we would
>have multiple days in a row when the temperature never got above zero.
>
>I do NOT think I have seen either of those "extremes" in the Chicago area in the
>last decade or so - even if we did get below 0 in some suburbs last night.
In the last w , daily lows have been at or below the all time record on four out of
seven days. Below are Chicago temperatures for the last w. Subtract 2-5 degrees for
suburbs, where you live. For example, in Palatine it was -7 on 1/20 and -5 yesterday and
today.
L H Record low
1/19 -2 6 -2
1/20 -4 10 -4
1/21 10 28 -2
1/22 10 30 3
1/23 7 16 -2
1/24 -2 10 0
1/25 -2 1
http://weather.chicagotribune.com/a...ilyHistory.html
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| Paul Knudsen 2008-01-26, 9:58 pm |
| On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:08:51 -0600, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
> L H Record low
>1/19 -2 6 -2
>1/20 -4 10 -4
>1/21 10 28 -2
>1/22 10 30 3
>1/23 7 16 -2
>1/24 -2 10 0
>1/25 -2 1
Having been to Chi-town in the winter, I would have thought the
records were a lot lower than that.
| |
| tlmfru 2008-01-27, 3:55 am |
| Making much of record low temperatures in one tiny locality doesn't get one
very far. The earth is far from uniform at that level of consideration so
you'd logically expect all sorts of variation. The AVERAGE temperature of
the whole earth's surface is what's important.
Paul Knudsen <pknudsen@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3isnp3hhqgqjgjgefoh5rdhffq82086qnp@
4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:08:51 -0600, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
>
> Having been to Chi-town in the winter, I would have thought the
> records were a lot lower than that.
| |
| Robert 2008-01-27, 3:55 am |
| On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:54:31 -0800, Paul Knudsen <pknudsen@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:08:51 -0600, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
>
>Having been to Chi-town in the winter, I would have thought the
>records were a lot lower than that.
Everyone who grew up in Chicago remembers, when he was a child, when the temperature
didn't go above zero for a w. Bill Klien said "I also remember when we would
have multiple days in a row when the temperature never got above zero."
A book "The Weather and Climate of Chicago" by Henry Joseph Cox, John Howard Armington -
1914 says:
"Table XXXI gives the longest period when daily maximum temperatures of zero or lower were
recorded. In only 5 of these 14 years were there 2 consecutive days, and only one year
where there were more than 2. That was in 1883, January 21 to 23."
http://books.google.com/books?id=__...PPA75,M1
page 76
However, I found this confirmation of Bill's assertion:
"Chicago's longest zero spell: 100 hours (four days, four hours). Beginning at 7 a.m. on
December 22, 1983, and continuing through Christmas Eve and Christmas Day to 11 a.m. on
December 26, Chicago's temperature remained at or below zero for 100 consecutive hours,
the longest frigid spell in the city's history."
http://wgntv.trb.com/news/weather/w...,0,475346.story
My take: Consecutive sub-zero days are rare. People tend to exaggerate.
If you want cold, go to Duluth or International Falls MN, where the NORMAL AVERAGE January
low is -20 and the record is -45. They're having a heat wave right now, it's 7.
Given that people can live anywhere they want, why does anyone choose to live in Duluth?
| |
| Michael Mattias 2008-01-27, 9:56 pm |
| >> L H Record low
>
> Having been to Chi-town in the winter, I would have thought the
> records were a lot lower than that.
Even though the 'official' temperature is taken at O'Hare Field well to the
western edge of Cook County, Lake Michigan is still a 'warming influence' on
winter temperatures. (The lake is about 20 miles from O'Hare as the crow
flies. Of course, crows are not dumb enough to fly around when it gets this
cold)
And by the way, if you don't think zero is cold, take a walk around the
block next time gets this way. For extra credit, do NOT walk facing backward
when your circuit reaches its "directly into the wind" leg.
MCM
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| Judson McClendon 2008-01-27, 9:56 pm |
| "tlmfru" <lacey@mts.net> wrote:
> Making much of record low temperatures in one tiny locality doesn't get one
> very far. The earth is far from uniform at that level of consideration so
> you'd logically expect all sorts of variation. The AVERAGE temperature of
> the whole earth's surface is what's important.
However, checking 1,000 year old tree rings or ice cores from tiny
localities apparently is a valid technique for proving global warming. ;-)
> Paul Knudsen <pknudsen@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
| |
| Doug Miller 2008-01-27, 9:56 pm |
| In article <5h8op3h67shs8ke3l0peinksc3mqt89q2o@4ax.com>, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>If you want cold, go to Duluth or International Falls MN, where the NORMAL
> AVERAGE January
>low is -20 and the record is -45. They're having a heat wave right now, it's 7.
>
>Given that people can live anywhere they want, why does anyone choose to live
> in Duluth?
I'm guessing you've never lived in a cold climate before. People *do* get used
to it.
And brutally cold winters do help some, in keeping riff-raff away.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphag at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| Judson McClendon 2008-01-27, 9:56 pm |
| "Michael Mattias" <mmattias@talsystems.com> wrote:
>
> Even though the 'official' temperature is taken at O'Hare Field well to the western edge of Cook County, Lake Michigan is still a
> 'warming influence' on winter temperatures. (The lake is about 20 miles from O'Hare as the crow flies. Of course, crows are not
> dumb enough to fly around when it gets this cold)
>
> And by the way, if you don't think zero is cold, take a walk around the block next time gets this way. For extra credit, do NOT
> walk facing backward when your circuit reaches its "directly into the wind" leg.
I had a friend in the USAF who was from Kodiak, Alaska. He said the
temperatures there were often -30 F, but that it was usually so dry, when
the wind wasn't blowing they could go out for 5 minutes or so in their
shirt sleeves without getting too chilled, if the show didn't get them wet.
They don't call Chicago "the Windy City" for nothing. :-)
For those not familiar with "lake effect snow", areas around the Great
Lakes get lots of snow because the winds over the lakes pick up humidity
and drop much of it as snow over the surrounding area.
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
| Michael Mattias 2008-01-27, 9:56 pm |
| "Judson McClendon" <judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote in message
news:l21nj.61109$vt2.1473@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
> They don't call Chicago "the Windy City" for nothing. :-)
No they don't, but the "Windy City" sobriquet does not originate with the
weather.
It was a reference to the inordinate number of politicians and the primary
activity thereof.
MCM
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| Michael Mattias 2008-01-27, 9:56 pm |
| "Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:sW0nj.1483$uE.149@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> And brutally cold winters do help some, in keeping riff-raff away.
Yeah, for sure. The mosquitos don't show up until late June and they are
gone by Labor Day.
MCM
| |
| Judson McClendon 2008-01-27, 9:56 pm |
| "Michael Mattias" <mmattias@talsystems.com> wrote:
> "Judson McClendon" <judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
>
> No they don't, but the "Windy City" sobriquet does not originate with the weather.
>
> It was a reference to the inordinate number of politicians and the primary activity thereof.
Interesting, thanks for the info. :-)
| |
| Alistair 2008-01-27, 9:56 pm |
| On 27 Jan, 14:37, "Judson McClendon" <ju...@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
> "tlmfru" <la...@mts.net> wrote:
one[color=darkred]
n so[color=darkred]
e of[color=darkred]
>
> However, checking 1,000 year old tree rings or ice cores from tiny
> localities apparently is a valid technique for proving global warming. ;-)=
>
Yes. And we've been through that already.
| |
| Alistair 2008-01-27, 9:56 pm |
| On 27 Jan, 14:54, spamb...@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <5h8op3h67shs8ke3l0peinksc3mqt89...@4ax.com>, Robert <n...@e.mail> wrote:
>
>
> I'm guessing you've never lived in a cold climate before. People *do* get used
> to it.
>
> And brutally cold winters do help some, in keeping riff-raff away.
>
> --
HAs anyone noticed that the quality of riff-raff isn't what it used to
be?
| |
| Alistair 2008-01-27, 9:56 pm |
| On 27 Jan, 15:02, "Judson McClendon" <ju...@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
> "Michael Mattias" <mmatt...@talsystems.com> wrote:
>
>
the western edge of Cook County, Lake Michigan is still a[color=darkred]
from O'Hare as the crow flies. Of course, crows are not[color=darkred]
>
he block next time gets this way. For extra credit, do NOT[color=darkred]
nd" leg.[color=darkred]
>
> I had a friend in the USAF who was from Kodiak, Alaska. He said the
> temperatures there were often -30 F, but that it was usually so dry, when
> the wind wasn't blowing they could go out for 5 minutes or so in their
> shirt sleeves without getting too chilled, if the show didn't get them wet=
..
> They don't call Chicago "the Windy City" for nothing. :-)
>
> For those not familiar with "lake effect snow", areas around the Great
> Lakes get lots of snow because the winds over the lakes pick up humidity
> and drop much of it as snow over the surrounding area.
> --
You could have got a dig in about the locality of tree-ring
measuremnts and the validity of global warming whilst you were at it.
| |
| tlmfru 2008-01-27, 9:56 pm |
|
Judson McClendon <judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote in message
news:QG0nj.61100$vt2.28487@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
> "tlmfru" <lacey@mts.net> wrote:
one[color=darkred]
so[color=darkred]
of[color=darkred]
>
> However, checking 1,000 year old tree rings or ice cores from tiny
> localities apparently is a valid technique for proving global warming. ;-)
>
They are, so long as they're correlated with all the other such records.
Nobody is so silly as to say that the old oak at the corner of 11th &
Phblatt represents the whole world.
PL
| |
| Pete Dashwood 2008-01-27, 9:57 pm |
|
"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:sW0nj.1483$uE.149@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> In article <5h8op3h67shs8ke3l0peinksc3mqt89q2o@4ax.com>, Robert
> <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
>
> I'm guessing you've never lived in a cold climate before. People *do* get
> used
> to it.
>
> And brutally cold winters do help some, in keeping riff-raff away.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphag at milmac dot com)
>
> It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
I just browsed this thread very quickly.
The two coldest places I have ever been were Calgary, Alberta (-18) and
Minneapolis, Minnesota (-15).
I've been in Yorkshire when it was -10 and London when it was -6.
I think a lot depends on the wind, the clothing you have available, and how
well prepared generally the community is for a cold snap (central heating in
buildings and cars, roads cleared of ice, etc.)
Here in Tauranga winter temperatures wouldn't go much below 10C and summer
averages around 24C. (It is officially "Temperate sub-tropical")
Different folks like different strokes, but, for myself, I prefer heat to
cold.
The hottest places I've ever been were New Delhi, India (43C) and Dacca,
Bangla Desh (42C), although Australia can get into the 40s (and that is just
around the edges of it, hate to think what the interior must be like :-))
Someone mentioned that for Chicago, official temperatures are taken at
O'Hare, which is affected by the lake. We have the same problem here.
Official temperatures are taken at Tauranga airport, which is right by the
sea, located to have prevailing winds, and they take the temperature at 3
pm. Recently, we have been having a really pleasant warm spell which has
driven holidaymakers to the beaches (thank Heavens they all go home this
w and we get our town back... :-)). The "official" temperatures were
around 25C, but shopkeers in town were measuring 35C and my own thermometer
maxxed at 34C. (It was hot...:-))
Anyway, I'll think of you all this afternoon (I don't drink until the sun's
over the yardarm :-)) as I raise yet another frosted glass of JD and toddle
off for a bit of body surfing in the translucent blue Pacific... :-)
Pete.
--
"I used to write COBOL... Now I can do anything."
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