Cobol - OT: Politically Correct

Author

OT: Politically Correct

James J. Gavan

2007-05-18, 3:55 am

Had to share this one which my wife just quoted from the w

ly
International Express. Now I know the whole Western world has gone nuts
on PC, but..........

There's this lady in Dorsetshire has a small business making
breads/cakes. She has Pig Tarts - just sweet with a marzipan or pastry
figure of a pig.

"No can do", say the austere authorities, no doubt quoting EU
regulations. "You can't call them pig tarts. There's no pork in them".
As she said, "I also make Robin Tarts. I wonder what's next, Shepherd's
Pie ?"

Jimmy

2007-05-18, 6:55 pm

In article <ph83i.192471$6m4.112824@pd7urf1no>,
James J. Gavan <jgavandeletethis@shaw.ca> wrote:

[snip]

>There's this lady in Dorsetshire has a small business making
>breads/cakes. She has Pig Tarts - just sweet with a marzipan or pastry
>figure of a pig.
>
>"No can do", say the austere authorities, no doubt quoting EU
>regulations. "You can't call them pig tarts. There's no pork in them".
>As she said, "I also make Robin Tarts. I wonder what's next, Shepherd's
>Pie ?"

Wait until they hear about baby oil.

DD

Howard Brazee

2007-05-18, 6:55 pm

On Fri, 18 May 2007 02:35:01 GMT, "James J. Gavan"
<jgavandeletethis@shaw.ca> wrote:

>There's this lady in Dorsetshire has a small business making
>breads/cakes. She has Pig Tarts - just sweet with a marzipan or pastry
>figure of a pig.
>
>"No can do", say the austere authorities, no doubt quoting EU
>regulations. "You can't call them pig tarts. There's no pork in them".
>As she said, "I also make Robin Tarts. I wonder what's next, Shepherd's
>Pie ?"

Is a Robin Tart one shaped like Batman's sidekick?

When the US passed laws that the predominant ingredient was listed
first, they left an opening for traditional names, such as "ham and
beans". And there's some room for common sense - the bun might be
bigger than the meat, but the predominate ingredient in a burger is
the meat.

I've enjoyed making fun of the statement that a burger "contains 100%
beef". Since I can see the bun, I know it contains cereal, and I
guess the beef could be mixed with cereal, tofu, and dog meat.

There's a word for words that come into being because of a mistake.
The whole concept of "tofu-burger" & "fish-burger" implies that a
hamburger has ham in it. So what do you call a burger made of ham?

A local radio restaurant reviewer has an annual review book, with
pictures of pigs eating at fine restaurants.
http://www.gabbygourmet.com/ Pat Miller is a Jew, and other Jews
objected to her having pigs as her symbols - but she said she wasn't
*eating* them.

donald tees

2007-05-18, 6:55 pm

Howard Brazee wrote:
> I've enjoyed making fun of the statement that a burger "contains 100%
> beef". Since I can see the bun, I know it contains cereal, and I
> guess the beef could be mixed with cereal, tofu, and dog meat.
>
I like "100% beef and beef by-products". After all Cowshit is a beef
by-product.

Donald

LX-i

2007-05-20, 3:55 am

Alistair wrote:
> On 18 May, 03:35, "James J. Gavan" <jgavandeletet...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> A brief browse of the internet shows photographs of the lady with
> Muppet Cakes (contain no real muppets but do have miniature miss
> piggies and kermits). Clearly a copyright infringement.
>
> Reading the articles shows that she had the option of listing the
> ingredients but chose instead to rename her tarts.
>
> Chocolate, in the UK, which contains less than 60% cocoa solids is
> threatened with being renamed under EU legislation. Jam, which has to
> be made with fruit, does not encompass the Carrot Jam that the
> Portuguese make; so the carrot has been redefined as a fruit to allow
> the Portuguese to continue making it.

Does none of this strike you as absolutely ridiculous?

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Albuquerque, NM! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ daniel@thebelowdomain ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com ~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or
a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" - Brad Stine

Pete Dashwood

2007-05-20, 9:55 pm

"LX-i" <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:0dSdnaLOEdlwIdLbnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@co
mcast.com...
> Alistair wrote:
>
> Does none of this strike you as absolutely ridiculous?
>

Ah, Daniel, you've maybe never been to Bruxelles? This is normal European
behaviour for the European Unionists.

Imagine the very worst of every Bureaucracy you have ever experienced, the
total lack of imagination or humour, the famous "Jobsworth" attitude...
("Sorry, more 'n' my job's worth to fast track the process..."), then people
it with little piggies from all over Europe, all pushing to get their snouts
in the trough and gobble some of the billions it raises by taxes on all its
members, foster a culture of backhanders, expense accounts that nobody sane
would ever authorise, and let the bloody French manipulate it from behind
the scenes for their own agenda (just as they ALWAYS do...), and you will
get a glimmer as to how the insanity outlined above can be made flesh. :-)

It is the most terminally boring town in the World, so much so, that they
had to build a huge ring road around it so that normal people can get across
Belgium without haviung to be exposed to it. It is Vogon "gnaw your leg off"
boring; I spent three years there one w

... :-)

What staggers me is that it is perceived amongst the less affluent nations
as an exclusive club that they're all queuing up to get into. (This probably
has something to do with the Common Agricultural Policy which (among many
other travesties) pays growers in Italy to dump tons of tomatoes, farmers in
England to grow rape that nobody wants, pays for storage of the wine lake
surpluses produced mainly by France and Germany,

storage for the butter
mountain, and encourages thousands of citizens in the Netherlands to keep a
cow in the back yard because doing so qualifies them for "small holding
assistance" and that in turn means they have plenty of time to sit in the
cafes and smoke pot...).

But then of course, the bureaucrats in the emerging nations see the EU and a
secondment to Bruxelles as the "big Rock Candy Mountain" of administrative
endeavour and they all want a chance to get their own little snouts in the
trough. (The daily expense allowance for a Euro MP (many of whom never won
an election but are there thanks to Proportional Representation...) is
equivalent to three months salary for a low level official in some emerging
nations.

Actually, writing that has made me feel a whole lot better about our own
Civil Service, which, though generally pathetic like most Civil Services,
isn't even in the same league as Bruxelles...

Pete.

2007-05-21, 7:55 am

In article <5bce12F2rvojqU1@mid.individual.net>,
Pete Dashwood <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:

[snip]

>Actually, writing that has made me feel a whole lot better about our own
>Civil Service, which, though generally pathetic like most Civil Services,
>isn't even in the same league as Bruxelles...

It might be, Mr Dashwood, that 'your own Civil Service' has a bit less to
deal with than, say, maintaining a lack of warfare that is completely
anomalous... there hasn't been a major war in Europe in over sixty years,
such an unheard-of circumstance might have a few... unusual results.

DD

Pete Dashwood

2007-05-21, 7:55 am

underprocessable

2007-05-21, 7:55 am

In article <5bd8ucF2s9q9iU1@mid.individual.net>,
Pete Dashwood <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
><docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:f2rnk2$dfi$1@reader2.panix.com...
>
>The administration in Bruxelles can take no credit for keeping peace in
>Europe.

No, Mr Dashwood... but the governments which resulted from that lack of
warfare did.

[snip]

>My piece was not entirely serious... :-)
>
>European Union, for the most part, is a Good Thing. The administration of it
>from Bruxelles, is not.

I can't think of very many countries where the Civil Service is lauded as
a haven for paragons of decency, thrift and efficiency - except when
lauded as such by the Civil Service - and 'at home' like that the Service
is staffed by those 'Just Like Us'... imagine the delight in being able to
excoriate a Civil Service staffed, at least in part, by Those Horrid
Foreigners.

DD

Pete Dashwood

2007-05-21, 7:55 am

<docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:f2s23q$bd5$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In article <5bd8ucF2s9q9iU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Pete Dashwood <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
> No, Mr Dashwood... but the governments which resulted from that lack of
> warfare did.
>
> [snip]
>
>
> I can't think of very many countries where the Civil Service is lauded as
> a haven for paragons of decency, thrift and efficiency - except when
> lauded as such by the Civil Service - and 'at home' like that the Service
> is staffed by those 'Just Like Us'... imagine the delight in being able to
> excoriate a Civil Service staffed, at least in part, by Those Horrid
> Foreigners.
>
> DD
>
I take no delight in excoriating anyone. As I said, my piece was not
entirely serious.

Having said that, the EU administration in Bruxelles is something else
again, and that was my point.

Pete.

2007-05-21, 6:55 pm

In article <5bdi8iF2sjv51U1@mid.individual.net>,
Pete Dashwood <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
><docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:f2s23q$bd5$1@reader2.panix.com...
>I take no delight in excoriating anyone.

It was never claimed that you did, Mr Dashwood... it might have been,
however, that some of Those You Spoke With whose views may have helped
form your own on the quality of EU administration could, possibly, have
done so.

>As I said, my piece was not
>entirely serious.

This was quoted above, Mr Dashwood, and considered during my response.

>
>Having said that, the EU administration in Bruxelles is something else
>again, and that was my point.

As was pointed out above, Mr Dashwood, what the EU administration has to
deal with - a Europe the likes of which has never been seen - might also
be considered as 'something else again'. Getting things 'right' is
difficult enough when one is on known turf... getting things 'right' on
Terra Incognita might not be more easy.

DD

HeyBub

2007-05-21, 6:55 pm

docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
> In article <5bce12F2rvojqU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Pete Dashwood <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> It might be, Mr Dashwood, that 'your own Civil Service' has a bit
> less to deal with than, say, maintaining a lack of warfare that is
> completely anomalous... there hasn't been a major war in Europe in
> over sixty years, such an unheard-of circumstance might have a few...
> unusual results.

Except for Bosnia, Herzgovina, Macedonia, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro,
Croatia, etc.

2007-05-21, 6:55 pm

In article <13538ns37ou7ecf@news.supernews.com>,
HeyBub <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
>Except for Bosnia, Herzgovina, Macedonia, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro,
>Croatia, etc.

I see... interesting that your set of standards label Bosnia, Herzgovina,
Macedonia, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia and others as 'major';
perhaps that is how such squabbles appear to Texans.

DD

Clark F Morris

2007-05-21, 6:55 pm

On Sat, 19 May 2007 21:13:33 -0600, LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:

>Alistair wrote:
>
>Does none of this strike you as absolutely ridiculous?
The reasoning is so that a person buying a product anywhere in the EU
can know what they are getting. The expectations for the consistency
of strawberry jam vary widely among the EU countries. Of course
bureaucracy rather than dealing with diversity and trying to find ways
of coping (French style strawberry jam, German style strawberry jam,
etc.) trying to impose an unsatisfactory uniformity. Thus you get the
absurdities mentioned above. Incidentally, I believe all foods should
have a list of ingredients so that those with allergies can determine
whether they can eat them. Right now I am avoiding milk products to
see if it reduces nasal congestion and possibly having some success.

Pete Dashwood

2007-05-21, 9:55 pm

"Alistair" <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1179777878.833748.326400@x18g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On 21 May, 03:21, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
> It can't be that bad....

Sure, I'm probably exaggerating... :-)
>
>
> ....admittedly Belgium has a certain reputation for being the arse-
> hole of the universe but it does have some of the best brews in the
> world.
>

I'll give you Trappist, what else ?

>
> ... rape seed oil is the new olive oil....
>

Maybe, but there is a surplus of it almost as large as the wine lake.

>
> ...I'm doing my best to reduce the wine lake without drowning in
> it....
>

No you're not. You are drinking what is available on the market. It makes no
impression on the surplus that is stored. Sensibly, you'd think that
production might be reduced and the surplus eroded a bit. Not a bit of it;
that would mean producers getting less cash, the same as if they released
the lake (and the butter mountain, for that matter...) onto the market and
let the price drop... Unthinkable.

>
>
> I've switched to Flora margerine, it is better for my ticker....

So now you are part of the problem by failing to consume butter... :-)

Pete.

Pete Dashwood

2007-05-21, 9:55 pm

<docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:f2sduj$f9s$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In article <fqc35314pfu8gkovf3fj9fuadlb2tk7j89@4ax.com>,
> Clark F Morris <cfmpublic@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> You are avoiding milk products to see if it reduces possibly having some
> success?
>
> DD
>
Lol! Nice one, Doc.

Drink milk; you'll be successful at playing the catarrh...

Pete.

HeyBub

2007-05-21, 9:55 pm

docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
> I see... interesting that your set of standards label Bosnia,
> Herzgovina, Macedonia, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia and
> others as 'major'; perhaps that is how such squabbles appear to
> Texans.
>

We're not THAT provincial. Still, the conflict seemed, I'm sure, "major" to
the affected Bosnians, Herzgovinians, Macedonias, Albanians, Serbs, etc.

Clark F Morris

2007-05-21, 9:55 pm

On Mon, 21 May 2007 14:24:46 -0600, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net>
wrote:

>On 21 May 2007 13:04:38 -0700, Alistair
><alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>At least once they renamed it.

In Canada it is called canola oil. There are rumblings about genetic
modification of some of the canola (rape) seed. Its supposed to have
the right type of Omegas (3 or 6).

2007-05-22, 7:55 am

In article <1354hv1kole6c65@news.supernews.com>,
HeyBub <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
>We're not THAT provincial. Still, the conflict seemed, I'm sure, "major" to
>the affected Bosnians, Herzgovinians, Macedonias, Albanians, Serbs, etc.

I barely know how things seem to *me*, let alone anyone else... but the
Anglo-Spanish War they ain't... Thirty Years' War, they ain't... and the
War of Three Kingdoms they ain't... France against Germany, England
against France, Spain against England, Italy against France... and not
only on their own turf but expanded to their colonies.

DD

2007-05-22, 7:55 am

In article <5bet3vF2t0lrsU1@mid.individual.net>,
Pete Dashwood <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
><docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:f2sduj$f9s$1@reader2.panix.com...
>Lol! Nice one, Doc.

Shucks, you'se jes' easily impressed... wonderful language, this English,
especially once one gets used to IF NOT COND1 AND COND2.

DD

Alistair

2007-05-22, 9:55 pm

On 22 May, 01:44, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
wrote:

>
> I'll give you Trappist, what else ?

Fruit beers, Geueze and Lambic beers. Stella (beloved beer of the
lager lout but not one of my favourite tipples). Saison Royale (not
sure that that one is correctly named. I had a bottle once and it was
fantastic). Hoegaarden.

>
>
> Maybe, but there is a surplus of it almost as large as the wine lake.

We'll be able to use it as bio-diesel soon.

>
>
>
> No you're not. You are drinking what is available on the market. It makes no
> impression on the surplus that is stored. Sensibly, you'd think that
> production might be reduced and the surplus eroded a bit. Not a bit of it;
> that would mean producers getting less cash, the same as if they released
> the lake (and the butter mountain, for that matter...) onto the market and
> let the price drop... Unthinkable.

You saw the fly in my argument. Sorry, you are right.

>
>
>
> So now you are part of the problem by failing to consume butter... :-)
>

I'm also part of the solution/opportunity.

Howard Brazee

2007-05-22, 9:55 pm

On 22 May 2007 11:27:20 -0700, Alistair
<alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Fruit beers, Geueze and Lambic beers. Stella (beloved beer of the
>lager lout but not one of my favourite tipples). Saison Royale (not
>sure that that one is correctly named. I had a bottle once and it was
>fantastic). Hoegaarden.

I'm just as happy getting my ale fresh at the New Belgium Brewery.
Check out this web site: http://www.newbelgium.com/index.php

LX-i

2007-05-23, 3:55 am

Clark F Morris wrote:
> On Sat, 19 May 2007 21:13:33 -0600, LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> The reasoning is so that a person buying a product anywhere in the EU
> can know what they are getting.

So what happens when you *want* a pig tart?

> The expectations for the consistency
> of strawberry jam vary widely among the EU countries. Of course
> bureaucracy rather than dealing with diversity and trying to find ways
> of coping (French style strawberry jam, German style strawberry jam,
> etc.) trying to impose an unsatisfactory uniformity. Thus you get the
> absurdities mentioned above.

And I'm sure these are the most pressing issues that can be addressed, no?

> Incidentally, I believe all foods should
> have a list of ingredients so that those with allergies can determine
> whether they can eat them.

I'm all for labels - but what's next? Hamburgers? Hot dogs? If that
is all there is for the bureaucracy to worry about, then they should
just go home, and convene again in a year. Especially when they're
being this asinine about it...

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Albuquerque, NM! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ daniel@thebelowdomain ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or
a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" - Brad Stine

LX-i

2007-05-23, 3:55 am

Pete Dashwood wrote:
> "LX-i" <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:0dSdnaLOEdlwIdLbnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@co
mcast.com...
>
> Ah, Daniel, you've maybe never been to Bruxelles? This is normal European
> behaviour for the European Unionists.

Like I said in my last post - it's time for a vacation.

[snip description]

> But then of course, the bureaucrats in the emerging nations see the EU and a
> secondment to Bruxelles as the "big Rock Candy Mountain" of administrative
> endeavour and they all want a chance to get their own little snouts in the
> trough. (The daily expense allowance for a Euro MP (many of whom never won
> an election but are there thanks to Proportional Representation...) is
> equivalent to three months salary for a low level official in some emerging
> nations.

And these countries have the nerve to talk about what we're doing in
America?!?!

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Albuquerque, NM! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ daniel@thebelowdomain ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or
a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" - Brad Stine

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

In article <B-idnbf1zqWpXc7bnZ2dnUVZ_o_inZ2d@comcast.com>,
LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:

[snip]

>And these countries have the nerve to talk about what we're doing in
>America?!?!

Talk is cheap, Mr Summers... that might be why there is often so much of
it. Have you never heard professionals express dismay at the ways in
which amateurs comport themselves?

DD

Pete Dashwood

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

"LX-i" <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:B-idnbT1zqUeIs7bnZ2dnUVZ_o-knZ2d@comcast.com...
> Clark F Morris wrote:
>
> So what happens when you *want* a pig tart?
>
>
> And I'm sure these are the most pressing issues that can be addressed, no?
>
>
> I'm all for labels - but what's next? Hamburgers? Hot dogs? If that is
> all there is for the bureaucracy to worry about, then they should just go
> home, and convene again in a year. Especially when they're being this
> asinine about it...
>

But Daniel, everybody knows standards are good... The EU enforces standards.
As a result the Germans are not allowed to export beer made according to the
Rheinheitsgebot ( 300 year old purity laws... in effect, they forbid adding
rice, enzymes, fillers, or anything other than hops, malt, yeast and water
to beer) into Europe.

(The Europeans couldn't compete because they all only manufacture the
"chemical beer" which most of the big brand names churn out after a number
of hours fermentation. Reinheitsgebot brewed beer takes three w

s to make,
so it costs more, and less of it is produced.)

However, Germany IS required to import the crap that everybody else drinks.
There was a move to try and stop the brewing of Reinheitsgebot beer
altogether because it violated EU standards about beer, but Germans are very
partial to decent beer, and eventually it was agreed they could brew it, as
long as they don't export into Europe. Oddly enough, I can buy it here in
NZ...:-)

The EU is also trying to enforce European speed limits in Germany (120 KPH,
72 MPH). So far they haven't succeeded because Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, and
BMW are a powerful lobby, but the writing is on the wall. Already sections
of the Autobahns are being limited and eventually it will be all of them.
I'm just thankful that I have experienced the freedom of travelling on a
road with no speed limit, moving at 265 KPH 160 MPH, thinking I was doing
pretty well... :-) and then being passed by a diplomat in a top of the line
Mercedes who left me for dead, and was talking on his car phone :-) (Just
outside Bonn, before the Wall came down...)

(My car at the time was a Nissan 300ZX turbo, 3 Litre DOHC fully
computerised V6 putting out 230 horse power. Not bad in 1987... but I still
prefer my current MX5 :-))

Pete.

LX-i

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
> In article <B-idnbf1zqWpXc7bnZ2dnUVZ_o_inZ2d@comcast.com>,
> LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Talk is cheap, Mr Summers... that might be why there is often so much of
> it. Have you never heard professionals express dismay at the ways in
> which amateurs comport themselves?

Yes - and the opposite as well. :)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Albuquerque, NM! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ daniel@thebelowdomain ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or
a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" - Brad Stine

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

In article <8OudnUFi-c1ZqsnbnZ2dnUVZ_oDinZ2d@comcast.com>,
LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
>Yes - and the opposite as well. :)

Exactly... now, in a field where one has minimal experience beyond
receiving second- or third-hand reports - as far as I know few folks in
this forum spend much time inside meetings on such a scale - how is one to
judge which is which?

DD

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

On 23 May, 11:57, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
wrote:
>
> But Daniel, everybody knows standards are good... The EU enforces standards.
> As a result the Germans are not allowed to export beer made according to the
> Rheinheitsgebot ( 300 year old purity laws... in effect, they forbid adding
> rice, enzymes, fillers, or anything other than hops, malt, yeast and water
> to beer) into Europe.

That is the first that I heard about German beer being banned from
export to the rest of Europe. One beer containing nothing but malt,
hops, water and yeast is Becks and that is available in my local
supermarket.

It is true that the Germans were forced to permit the import and sale
of impure/chemical beers such as Fosters and most other British
brews.

>
> (The Europeans couldn't compete because they all only manufacture the
> "chemical beer" which most of the big brand names churn out after a number
> of hours fermentation.

I visited a Greene King brewery in Biggleswade and was horrified to
find that from raw ingredients to keg took 24 hours; no wonder it was
like piss. They have since changed their brewing method and I do not
know how long the current version of Harp takes to brew.

In Amsterdam, the Heineken brewed there takes three w

s in cold vats
to mature and that does not include the rapid fermentation period.

> The EU is also trying to enforce European speed limits in Germany (120 KPH,
> 72 MPH). So far they haven't succeeded because Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, and
> BMW are a powerful lobby, but the writing is on the wall. Already sections
> of the Autobahns are being limited and eventually it will be all of them.

The autobahns have had speed limits on them since at least 1980 (when
I lived and drove in W Germany at Gutersloh). The law, then, was that
if there was a displayed speed limit then that was enforced (by police
in Porsches) until a de-restriction sign. De-restricted sections were
unlimited but you could still be caught and charged for speeding by
the police if they (subjectively) thought that your speed was
excessive for the conditions (eg heavy traffic or wet/icy roads).

> I'm just thankful that I have experienced the freedom of travelling on a
> road with no speed limit, moving at 265 KPH 160 MPH, thinking I was doing
> pretty well... :-) and then being passed by a diplomat in a top of the line
> Mercedes who left me for dead, and was talking on his car phone :-)

Sometimes I wish I could have pursued a career as a traffic cop. A
friend had a father who was a senior traffic cop. Upon retiring he was
asked if there was anything that he regretted as a police office. The
reply was along the lines of "Yes, wasting my time as a traffic cop".

(Just
> outside Bonn, before the Wall came down...)
>
> (My car at the time was a Nissan 300ZX turbo, 3 Litre DOHC fully
> computerised V6 putting out 230 horse power. Not bad in 1987... but I still
> prefer my current MX5 :-))
>
> Pete.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Howard Brazee

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

On Wed, 23 May 2007 22:57:11 +1200, "Pete Dashwood"
<dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:

>But Daniel, everybody knows standards are good... The EU enforces standards.
>As a result the Germans are not allowed to export beer made according to the
>Rheinheitsgebot ( 300 year old purity laws... in effect, they forbid adding
>rice, enzymes, fillers, or anything other than hops, malt, yeast and water
>to beer) into Europe.

Can't they just call it something else?

I believe Canadian provinces still need their own breweries instead of
a centrally located brewery. I'm not sure whether this is mandated
or whether the tax advantage is sufficient.

Howard Brazee

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

On 23 May 2007 07:08:22 -0700, Alistair
<alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>I visited a Greene King brewery in Biggleswade and was horrified to
>find that from raw ingredients to keg took 24 hours; no wonder it was
>like piss. They have since changed their brewing method and I do not
>know how long the current version of Harp takes to brew.

There's nothing about being slow that guarantees something tastes
good, and there's nothing abut speed to guarantee that it tastes good.

My tastes are towards Belgium ales, but that's just what I like in a
brew. I'm obviously in a minority around here, but that's OK.

I read something a beer expert said (Michael Jackson?), giving
examples of where and when he likes different brews - I believe he
said that in a hot ball park, a Bud hits the spot quite nicely. I
certainly don't have his developed palate for brews, but that makes
sense to me.

Taste is taste.

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

On 23 May, 15:15, Alistair <alist...@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23 May, 11:57, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
>

Sorry about the multiple posts but Google is to blame (it comes up
with an error each time I post and suggests trying again later). Sorry.

James J. Gavan

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair wrote:
> On 23 May, 11:57, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
> wrote:
> <snip>
> The autobahns have had speed limits on them since at least 1980 (when
> I lived and drove in W Germany at Gutersloh). The law, then, was that
> if there was a displayed speed limit then that was enforced (by police
> in Porsches) until a de-restriction sign. De-restricted sections were
> unlimited but you could still be caught and charged for speeding by
> the police if they (subjectively) thought that your speed was
> excessive for the conditions (eg heavy traffic or wet/icy roads).

Small world ! Jan/Feb '59 to March '61 I was in Gutersloh. I remember it
fondly as a nice little town with that typically German ('Tudor style')
architecture, black beams on a white background.

Don't ask me which direction, but probably north, I was at RAF Sundern -
about fifteen minutes walk from the town centre. It was an RAF
administered NATO unit comprising, R.A.F, R.Neth.A.F., Luftwaffe and a
British army signals unit. (I probably only ever made three trips to RAF
Gutersloh - fighter squadrons I think, so am not familiar with the air
base).

I never got a speeding ticket on the autobahns - I was doing top speed
of 60 mph on an Italian-made Lambretta :-). (NSU produced a version of
the Lambretta in Germany - slightly different handlebar configuration;
otherwise looked just like the Italian version, which I originally
bought in UK). Both models gave you 80 mpg and in my impeccable German
would roll up to a gas stations and say, "Funf litre bitte".

I wonder if I related the tale from when Eileen came over for a holiday
from UK in 1960. We met an RAF English couple in Dusseldorf. A w

or
so earlier, his Cockney dad also came over for a holiday. The old guy
would take himself for short walks to check on local scenery and hit
upon a gasthaus. Didn't speak the local lingo but went in and asked,
"Pint of bitter ?". He got his beer :-)

Jimmy

James J. Gavan

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Wed, 23 May 2007 22:57:11 +1200, "Pete Dashwood"
> <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Can't they just call it something else?
>
> I believe Canadian provinces still need their own breweries instead of
> a centrally located brewery. I'm not sure whether this is mandated
> or whether the tax advantage is sufficient.

News to me Howard; not that I'm a beer drinker, other than the
occasional Guinness. Any other Canucks care to comment ?

We do have a brewery in Calgary area called Black Rock which exports to
other provinces and the States I think. Occasionally have one of their
brews because they produce very tasty stout-like products - akin to
Guinness.

Jimmy

James J. Gavan

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

Alistair wrote:
> On 23 May, 11:57, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> That is the first that I heard about German beer being banned from
> export to the rest of Europe. One beer containing nothing but malt,
> hops, water and yeast is Becks and that is available in my local
> supermarket.
>
<snip>

Finger problems Alistair, or was it you boozy friend who kept pressing
the send key ?

Jimmy

Pete Dashwood

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

"Alistair" <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1179929302.181261.229460@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On 23 May, 11:57, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
> That is the first that I heard about German beer being banned from
> export to the rest of Europe. One beer containing nothing but malt,
> hops, water and yeast is Becks and that is available in my local
> supermarket.

The policy may have changed. I hope so.

>
> It is true that the Germans were forced to permit the import and sale
> of impure/chemical beers such as Fosters and most other British
> brews.
>
>
> I visited a Greene King brewery in Biggleswade and was horrified to
> find that from raw ingredients to keg took 24 hours; no wonder it was
> like piss. They have since changed their brewing method and I do not
> know how long the current version of Harp takes to brew.
>
> In Amsterdam, the Heineken brewed there takes three w

s in cold vats
> to mature and that does not include the rapid fermentation period.
>
>
> The autobahns have had speed limits on them since at least 1980 (when
> I lived and drove in W Germany at Gutersloh). The law, then, was that
> if there was a displayed speed limit then that was enforced (by police
> in Porsches) until a de-restriction sign. De-restricted sections were
> unlimited but you could still be caught and charged for speeding by
> the police if they (subjectively) thought that your speed was
> excessive for the conditions (eg heavy traffic or wet/icy roads).

Yes, there have always been some sections that were restricted. But my point
was that these sections are increasing. When I lived there the policy was
that the RECOMMENDED (white numbers on a blue background) speed limit was
120 KPH but, as you know, most Germans cruise around 200 KPH , and it is
only illegal if you are in an area where there is a restriction.
>
>
>
> Sometimes I wish I could have pursued a career as a traffic cop. A
> friend had a father who was a senior traffic cop. Upon retiring he was
> asked if there was anything that he regretted as a police office. The
> reply was along the lines of "Yes, wasting my time as a traffic cop".
>
> (Just
>
>

Pete Dashwood

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:fkk853l5h4nbfjrcn4rohv7v2ta1pe1a6n@
4ax.com...
> On 23 May 2007 07:08:22 -0700, Alistair
> <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> There's nothing about being slow that guarantees something tastes
> good, and there's nothing abut speed to guarantee that it tastes good.
>
> My tastes are towards Belgium ales, but that's just what I like in a
> brew. I'm obviously in a minority around here, but that's OK.
>
> I read something a beer expert said (Michael Jackson?), giving
> examples of where and when he likes different brews - I believe he
> said that in a hot ball park, a Bud hits the spot quite nicely. I
> certainly don't have his developed palate for brews, but that makes
> sense to me.
>
> Taste is taste.

I agree, but choice is important too.

Pete.

donald tees

2007-05-23, 6:55 pm

James J. Gavan wrote:
> Howard Brazee wrote:
>
> News to me Howard; not that I'm a beer drinker, other than the
> occasional Guinness. Any other Canucks care to comment ?
>
> We do have a brewery in Calgary area called Black Rock which exports to
> other provinces and the States I think. Occasionally have one of their
> brews because they produce very tasty stout-like products - akin to
> Guinness.
>
> Jimmy

And we do grow rather nice Pot. As far as I know, political correctness
has not been applied to that yet.

Donald

James J. Gavan

2007-05-23, 9:55 pm

donald tees wrote:
> James J. Gavan wrote:
>
>
>
> And we do grow rather nice Pot. As far as I know, political correctness
> has not been applied to that yet.
>
> Donald

Donald, Donald, Donald - I thought the topic was drinks not smokes :-)

donald tees

2007-05-24, 3:55 am

James J. Gavan wrote:
> donald tees wrote:
>
> Donald, Donald, Donald - I thought the topic was drinks not smokes :-)

I have a T-shirt that says "why drink and drive when you can smoke and
fly?" Hows *that* for political correctness?

Donald
;< )

Clark Morris

2007-05-24, 9:55 pm

On Tue, 22 May 2007 22:13:39 -0600, LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:

>Clark F Morris wrote:
>
>So what happens when you *want* a pig tart?
>
>
>And I'm sure these are the most pressing issues that can be addressed, no?
>
>
>I'm all for labels - but what's next? Hamburgers? Hot dogs? If that
>is all there is for the bureaucracy to worry about, then they should
>just go home, and convene again in a year. Especially when they're
>being this asinine about it...

I am trying to avoid all milk products. Others have to avoid soy.
Given that both can be in hamburgers and hot dogs, it would be a good
thing to have this information. I can't eat at one fast food
restaurant because the list of ingredients isn't available.

Clark F Morris

2007-05-24, 9:55 pm

On Wed, 23 May 2007 20:39:10 GMT, "James J. Gavan"
<jgavandeletethis@shaw.ca> wrote:

>Howard Brazee wrote:
>
>News to me Howard; not that I'm a beer drinker, other than the
>occasional Guinness. Any other Canucks care to comment ?
>
>We do have a brewery in Calgary area called Black Rock which exports to
>other provinces and the States I think. Occasionally have one of their
>brews because they produce very tasty stout-like products - akin to
>Guinness.

It used to be that many provinces required all beer to be brewed
locally. Even today many of the provincially owned liquor
corporations impose extra charges on out of province beer (the
corporations are both wholesalers and distributors).
>
>Jimmy

Alistair

2007-05-24, 9:55 pm

On 23 May, 21:32, "James J. Gavan" <jgavandeletet...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Alistair wrote:
>
> Small world ! Jan/Feb '59 to March '61 I was in Gutersloh. I remember it
> fondly as a nice little town with that typically German ('Tudor style')
> architecture, black beams on a white background.
>
> Don't ask me which direction, but probably north, I was at RAF Sundern -
> about fifteen minutes walk from the town centre. It was an RAF
> administered NATO unit comprising, R.A.F, R.Neth.A.F., Luftwaffe and a
> British army signals unit. (I probably only ever made three trips to RAF
> Gutersloh - fighter squadrons I think, so am not familiar with the air
> base).
>
> I never got a speeding ticket on the autobahns - I was doing top speed
> of 60 mph on an Italian-made Lambretta :-). (NSU produced a version of
> the Lambretta in Germany - slightly different handlebar configuration;
> otherwise looked just like the Italian version, which I originally
> bought in UK). Both models gave you 80 mpg and in my impeccable German
> would roll up to a gas stations and say, "Funf litre bitte".
>
> I wonder if I related the tale from when Eileen came over for a holiday
> from UK in 1960. We met an RAF English couple in Dusseldorf. A w

or
> so earlier, his Cockney dad also came over for a holiday. The old guy
> would take himself for short walks to check on local scenery and hit
> upon a gasthaus. Didn't speak the local lingo but went in and asked,
> "Pint of bitter ?". He got his beer :-)
>
> Jimmy

I never heard of RAF Sundern. When I was in Gutersloh, the RAF
Gutersloh base (North of the town) was a photo recce shop with
harriers. There was an army base (south?) full of artillery people. I
think the camps are visible on google-earth. As are those interesting
airfields full of junk yank hardware in Arizona, etc.

I think the town was still Tudor style (older parts) but there were
plenty of concrete supermarkets. Overall impression, very neat, clean
and tidy.

The locals were friendly.

I lived next door to the SS/Gestapo HQ where objectors were tortured
(during the war).

Alistair

2007-05-24, 9:55 pm

On 23 May, 21:39, "James J. Gavan" <jgavandeletet...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Howard Brazee wrote:
>
>
>
>
> News to me Howard; not that I'm a beer drinker, other than the
> occasional Guinness. Any other Canucks care to comment ?
>

Do you get Guinness in Cans with the widget?

Alistair

2007-05-24, 9:55 pm

On 23 May, 21:41, "James J. Gavan" <jgavandeletet...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Alistair wrote:
>
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Finger problems Alistair, or was it you boozy friend who kept pressing
> the send key ?
>
> Jimmy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, it just keeps coming up with "an error has occurred. Please try
again later" so I do. Repeatedly. Ad nauseum. I wouldn't let my boozy
chum at my pc. And I edit out most of the finger slips.

Alistair

2007-05-24, 9:55 pm

On 23 May, 23:53, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
wrote:
> Yes, there have always been some sections that were restricted. But my point
> was that these sections are increasing. When I lived there the policy was
> that the RECOMMENDED (white numbers on a blue background) speed limit was
> 120 KPH but, as you know, most Germans cruise around 200 KPH , and it is
> only illegal if you are in an area where there is a restriction.
>

Surely it is only illegal if you get caught?

Alistair

2007-05-24, 9:55 pm

On 24 May, 00:21, donald tees <don...@execulink.com> wrote:
> James J. Gavan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> And we do grow rather nice Pot. As far as I know, political correctness
> has not been applied to that yet.
>
> Donald- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Is the growing season long enough north of the US/CAN border? In the
UK the buds are only ready around November.

Alistair

2007-05-24, 9:55 pm

On 24 May, 18:32, Clark Morris <cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2007 22:13:39 -0600, LX-i <lxi0...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am trying to avoid all milk products. Others have to avoid soy.
> Given that both can be in hamburgers and hot dogs, it would be a good
> thing to have this information. I can't eat at one fast food
> restaurant because the list of ingredients isn't available.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Speaking of fast food joints. McDonalds are attempting to get the OED
to change its definition of McJob (dead end job in the service sector).

2007-05-24, 9:55 pm

In article <1180036814.294968.120030@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
Alistair <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 23 May, 23:53, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
>wrote:
>
>Surely it is only illegal if you get caught?

On the one hand, Mr Maclean, the Law is the Law, no matter what... on the
other hand, as the French used to say, 'ibi non accusator, non iudex'.

DD

James J. Gavan

2007-05-25, 3:55 am

Alistair wrote:
> On 23 May, 21:39, "James J. Gavan" <jgavandeletet...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> Do you get Guinness in Cans with the widget?
>
>
Yes, plus in bottles as well. But there's also an olde typical Victorian
decor pub, (dark oak and engraved glass in the windows), downtown called
'James Joyce'. Probably five or more years back but when I went in there
one Stampede, (Calgary's 'Greatest Outdoor Show on Earth' plus lots of
bullshit, both bovine and verbal), they asked which I wanted,
Continental, English, N. American or the real stuff from the Auld Sod.

I referred to Black Rock brewery outside of Calgary; I should have
written Big Rock. Right in the middle of nowhere in flat prairie land
south west of Calgary, near Okotoks (OCHRE-TOKES) there's this huge
chunk of rock, (size of about five houses) which was dragged down south
during the Ice Age. We have a smaller version in my S.E. suburban community.

PS: I'll check to see if I can locate Sundern on the Google-Earth.

Jimmy

James J. Gavan

2007-05-25, 3:55 am

Alistair wrote:
> On 24 May, 00:21, donald tees <don...@execulink.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Is the growing season long enough north of the US/CAN border? In the
> UK the buds are only ready around November.
>
Well I can't tell you about Donald's bit of the Great White North, but
just to show that the main topic of conversation in Calgary is 'Weather'
and confirms our saying, "Wait five minutes and the weather will change"
- we woke up this morning to light snow. Sometimes they *actually* get
the weather forecasts correct.

Daffodils and tulips in blossom, plus flowering shrubs although the
lilacs haven't yet popped their buds; the grass has turned from its
winter 'hay' colour to a nice green but not the deep emerald of the UK -
and everything was smothered in snow - makes some plants feel really
sick, but they do recover.

It's a challenge to grow zucchini/courgettes but when the sun really
belts it out in a good summer you get inundated with the bloody things.
There's a saying here that if you see somebody in a supermarket in
June-August buying zucchini, then they obviously haven't got any
gardening friends :-)

Statistically, Calgary has the most sunshine in Canada in a year. I
suppose that's because we are some 4,000 feet up, though you'd never
notice. Our winters blow cold and warm. Chinook winds (from the
Pacific), blow over the Rockies from BC into our part of the world.
Literally, I've done it - in April 75 snow on the grass at breakfast
time and we were sunbathing from 12 noon. (Eileen wouldn't believe me
when I phoned her in the UK).

Jimmy

James J. Gavan

2007-05-25, 3:55 am

Alistair wrote:
> On 24 May, 18:32, Clark Morris <cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> Speaking of fast food joints. McDonalds are attempting to get the OED
> to change its definition of McJob (dead end job in the service sector).
>
And the last I noted, I think they now claim to sell more chicken than KFC.

James J. Gavan

2007-05-25, 3:55 am

Alistair wrote:
> On 23 May, 21:32, "James J. Gavan" <jgavandeletet...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> I never heard of RAF Sundern. When I was in Gutersloh, the RAF
> Gutersloh base (North of the town) was a photo recce shop with
> harriers. There was an army base (south?) full of artillery people. I
> think the camps are visible on google-earth. As are those interesting
> airfields full of junk yank hardware in Arizona, etc.
>
> I think the town was still Tudor style (older parts) but there were
> plenty of concrete supermarkets. Overall impression, very neat, clean
> and tidy.
>
> The locals were friendly.
>
> I lived next door to the SS/Gestapo HQ where objectors were tortured
> (during the war).
>
Shows you what I know. I thought Sundern was NORTH of Gutersloh - I
obviously don't know which way is up ! Entering the search 'Sundern
Gutersloh Westfalen' gives you co-ordinates :-

N 51 53 33 27, E 8 24 39 78

and points at Sundern. You can do one of those route thinggies from
'Here' to 'There' which highlights the route from Gutersloh to Sundern.
Now going from memory - none of the road names mean anything to me. Take
the railway station (HauptBahnHof ?) and the exit faces across a clear
area towards housing in (central ?) Gutersloh, i.e., before you hit the
true 'downtown' with the Tudor architecture. Coming out of the station
we went LEFT, followed a road and had to cross the rail-track before
getting to Sundern, which as we were heading (N, S, E or W - God knows
:-) ), gave us the military camp on our LEFT. If it still exists I'm
fairly certain it will be a rectangle plot with a central road and first
class buildings either side of the central boulevard. One side was solid
pre WW2 quality barrack blocks. (Back in the 30s was used by the
Whermacht for signals trainees; each room had a small wall cubicle with
wireless gear and sitting in their individual rooms they could go stir
crazy practicing and sending Morse code etc.)

If we were leaving the camp to go to say, Bielefeld, we exited turning
LEFT and never went into Gutersloh itself. You're better at this stuff
and I honestly don't have the patience - I can't even locate the bloody
airfield :-)

Trouble is, I'm talking over 40 years ago and even though the Sundern
base was built to last forever, it must price-wise have been a prime
piece of land and likely has been demolished to be replaced by newer
housing sites. During my time there were single properties, nice but
modestly priced, each on a fairly large piece of land which would now
probably accommodate some four new homes, even without being terraced.

Go huntin' kiddo !

PS: I once used Google-Earth to try and trace Abu Sueir in Egypt trying
to pick out the airfield. That was '51-'54 so far as I'm concerned.
(Well first we know it's between Cairo and Ismailia along the Sweet
Water Canal and obviously quite some way south of Port Said). It's OK if
you don't mind viewing a lot of sand :-)

Jimmy

Alistair

2007-05-25, 7:55 am

On 24 May, 21:42, docdw...@panix.com () wrote:
> In article <1180036814.294968.120...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Alistair <alist...@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> On the one hand, Mr Maclean, the Law is the Law, no matter what... on the
> other hand, as the French used to say, 'ibi non accusator, non iudex'.
>
> DD

I don't speak that dialect of French. What is it in the original
German?

Alistair

2007-05-25, 7:55 am

On 24 May, 22:25, "James J. Gavan" <jgavandeletet...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Alistair wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, plus in bottles as well. But there's also an olde typical Victorian
> decor pub, (dark oak and engraved glass in the windows), downtown called
> 'James Joyce'. Probably five or more years back but when I went in there
> one Stampede, (Calgary's 'Greatest Outdoor Show on Earth' plus lots of
> bullshit, both bovine and verbal), they asked which I wanted,
> Continental, English, N. American or the real stuff from the Auld Sod.
>

They didn't mention the version that is brewed in Nigeria? I thought
that a friend of mine (another booz'm chum) was being racist when he
referred to Guinness as 'Nigerian lager' but then a beer catalogue
showed that they do brew Guinness in Nigeria too.

Alistair

2007-05-25, 7:55 am

On 25 May, 03:59, "James J. Gavan" <jgavandeletet...@shaw.ca> wrote:

> Now going from memory - none of the road names mean anything to me. Take
> the railway station (HauptBahnHof ?) and the exit faces across a clear
> area t