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| Author |
JCL, Cobol and "Call Parameters"
|
|
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-01-24, 7:55 am |
| Hello,
we are in the evaluation phase of converting a bunch of applications to
MF/Cobol. The Programms work fine and right now I am trying to figure
out the best way to handle all this JCL-Stuff. Eg.
The JCL says :
* $$JOB JNM=REI-V94,DISP=D,CLASS=0,PRI=8
* $$LST CLASS=A,DISP=H,FNO=33AE,FCB=FCB000Z8,LST
=B0E
// JOB ZAKMTE ---- UNVERFALLBARKEIT
// ASSGN SYS010,B0E
LIBDEF *,SEARCH=ALLES.TEST
// EXEC VSB094,SIZE=512K
99 70000000 98000000
/*
/&
* $$EOJ
COBOL uses this :
FILE-CONTROL.
SELECT LISTFILE
ASSIGN TO SYS010-UR-3203-S.
So the Name of the Spool File is dynamically setted by the JCL. How do
I do this with a shell script or a call to the MF/Cobol Runtime
"runcob32".
For SYSIPT I have done the following. According to the JCL-Above
#!/bin/bash
echo "99 70000000 98000000" | ./VSB094
This is then used in COBOL with
01 ACC-IPT1.
05 FILLER PIC XXXX.
05 VLK-VNR-BEGINN PIC X(8).
05 FILLER PIC X(1).
05 VLK-VNR-ENDE PIC X(8).
ACCEPT ACC-IPT1 FROM SYSIPT.
And I have the Parameters. But how to handle those filenames ?
Kind regards
Michael
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-01-24, 6:55 pm |
|
> And I have the Parameters. But how to handle those filenames ?
cob32 -iv -C ASSIGN=EXTERNAL -o VSB390M.int VSB390M.cbl
and in the shell script
export SYS010UR3203S=filename.txt
does the job. Of course the ACCEPT has to be modified to
SELECT LISTENDATEI
ASSIGN TO SYS010UR3203S.
* ASSIGN TO SYS010-UR-3203-S.
Because Unix does not want "-" in Environmentvariable names.
| |
| Frank Swarbrick 2007-01-24, 6:55 pm |
| I don't have an answer, but I do have a comment.
You're converting from VSE to Micro Focus? Traitor!
:-)
Oh, one other comment. I believe Micro Focus has a product that will allow
you to keep you VSE JCL. You might try contacting them.
Frank
michael.bierenfeld@web.de<michael.bierenfeld@web.de> 01/24/07 4:56 AM >>>
>Hello,
>
>we are in the evaluation phase of converting a bunch of applications to
>MF/Cobol. The Programms work fine and right now I am trying to figure
>out the best way to handle all this JCL-Stuff. Eg.
>
>The JCL says :
>
>* $$JOB JNM=REI-V94,DISP=D,CLASS=0,PRI=8
>* $$LST CLASS=A,DISP=H,FNO=33AE,FCB=FCB000Z8,LST
=B0E
>// JOB ZAKMTE ---- UNVERFALLBARKEIT
>// ASSGN SYS010,B0E
> LIBDEF *,SEARCH=ALLES.TEST
>// EXEC VSB094,SIZE=512K
>99 70000000 98000000
>/*
>/&
>* $$EOJ
>
>COBOL uses this :
>
> FILE-CONTROL.
> SELECT LISTFILE
> ASSIGN TO SYS010-UR-3203-S.
>
>So the Name of the Spool File is dynamically setted by the JCL. How do
>I do this with a shell script or a call to the MF/Cobol Runtime
>"runcob32".
>
>For SYSIPT I have done the following. According to the JCL-Above
>
>#!/bin/bash
>echo "99 70000000 98000000" | ./VSB094
>
>This is then used in COBOL with
>
> 01 ACC-IPT1.
> 05 FILLER PIC XXXX.
> 05 VLK-VNR-BEGINN PIC X(8).
> 05 FILLER PIC X(1).
> 05 VLK-VNR-ENDE PIC X(8).
>
>ACCEPT ACC-IPT1 FROM SYSIPT.
>
>And I have the Parameters. But how to handle those filenames ?
---
Frank Swarbrick
Senior Developer/Analyst - Mainframe Applications
FirstBank Data Corporation - Lakewood, CO USA
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-01-26, 7:55 am |
|
> You're converting from VSE to Micro Focus? Traitor!
As an act of compassion :-)
> Oh, one other comment. I believe Micro Focus has a product that will allow
> you to keep you VSE JCL. You might try contacting them.
>
I will keep this as an option. I have contacted a company which has
some sort of JCL-Interpreter. The MF/Stuff is somwhat to tightly
integrated into their stuff. This would lead from one addiction to
another.
Kind Regards
Michael
| |
| Frank Swarbrick 2007-01-26, 6:55 pm |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de<michael.bierenfeld@web.de> 01/26/07 5:12 AM >>>
>
>
>As an act of compassion :-)
>
allow[color=darkred]
>
>I will keep this as an option. I have contacted a company which has
>some sort of JCL-Interpreter. The MF/Stuff is somwhat to tightly
>integrated into their stuff. This would lead from one addiction to
>another.
Seriously, though, I have to ask what type of VSE workload do you have that
you are migrating to MF and Unix? Are you migrating just batch
applications, or CICS applications as well? If CICS, what are you using on
the Unix side to run them? Mainframe Express MTO?
We're not looking to move off of VSE, but sometimes (often) VSE seriously
pisses me off...
Frank
---
Frank Swarbrick
Senior Developer/Analyst - Mainframe Applications
FirstBank Data Corporation - Lakewood, CO USA
| |
|
| Frank Swarbrick wrote:
> michael.bierenfeld@web.de<michael.bierenfeld@web.de> 01/26/07 5:12 AM >>>
> allow
>
> Seriously, though, I have to ask what type of VSE workload do you have that
> you are migrating to MF and Unix? Are you migrating just batch
> applications, or CICS applications as well? If CICS, what are you using on
> the Unix side to run them? Mainframe Express MTO?
>
> We're not looking to move off of VSE, but sometimes (often) VSE seriously
> pisses me off...
>
> Frank
Just curious: What level of VSE are you using? Have you checked the
new z/VSE V4.1?
> http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_c.../ENUS207003.PDF
I'm not a VSE person. I deal with z/OS exclusively. I'm just curious,
and sometimes the most recent IBM announcements to not always make it to
the people who need it most.
Carl
| |
| Frank Swarbrick 2007-01-26, 6:55 pm |
| CG<Carl.Gehr.ButNoSPAMStuff@MCGCG.Com> 01/26/07 9:53 AM >>>
>Frank Swarbrick wrote:
that[color=darkred]
on[color=darkred]
seriously[color=darkred]
>
>Just curious: What level of VSE are you using? Have you checked the
>new z/VSE V4.1?
>
>I'm not a VSE person. I deal with z/OS exclusively. I'm just curious,
>and sometimes the most recent IBM announcements to not always make it to
>the people who need it most.
Most of the new features of 4.1 are "system" type stuff. No new COBOL stuff
(other than Y2K stuff nothing major in over ten years). No new CICS stuff
(nothing in at least five years).
Anyway, we are on v 2.7, but going to 3.1 "any day now". Hopefully soon
followed by 4.1, but I won't get my hopes up.
Frank
---
Frank Swarbrick
Senior Developer/Analyst - Mainframe Applications
FirstBank Data Corporation - Lakewood, CO USA
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-09, 6:55 pm |
| > Seriously, though, I have to ask what type of VSE workload do you have that
> you are migrating to MF and Unix? Are you migrating just batch
> applications, or CICS applications as well? If CICS, what are you using on
> the Unix side to run them? Mainframe Express MTO?
>
It is not a question of workload. You dont find to many companies here
in Germany that do offer VSE support (outsourcing). On the other side
Software Development with "modern" Tools like Microfocus is different
than using VM/VSE Tools.
Yep we are planing to migrate CICS and Batch Jobs. For CICS its
planned to use MTO. Batch will be native Cobol with UC4 as Scheduling
system. JCL interpreted or ported to Shell Scripts (not decided yet)
Kind regards
Michael
| |
| Frank Swarbrick 2007-02-09, 6:55 pm |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de<michael.bierenfeld@web.de> 02/09/07 9:55 AM >>>
that[color=darkred]
on[color=darkred]
>
>It is not a question of workload. You dont find to many companies here
>in Germany that do offer VSE support (outsourcing). On the other side
>Software Development with "modern" Tools like Microfocus is different
>than using VM/VSE Tools.
>
>Yep we are planing to migrate CICS and Batch Jobs. For CICS its
>planned to use MTO. Batch will be native Cobol with UC4 as Scheduling
>system. JCL interpreted or ported to Shell Scripts (not decided yet)
Sounds like an interesting project. I'd be very interested to hear the
results once you are done. I definitely find VSE to not be an ideal
environment often times.
What I meant by my question about workload is, do you consider your workload
(online and batch) to be "large"? We are one of the largest VSE shops in
the world (workload-wise), from what I've heard. We have a an IBM z9 BC,
model 2096-U02, running at 526 MIPS. Any idea what size your VSE box is?
One thing (among others) that I would worry about if moving to MF and Unix
would be performance.
Oh, another question. What type of data access do you use on VSE? VSAM?
DB2? DL/I?
Frank
---
Frank Swarbrick
Senior Developer/Analyst - Mainframe Applications
FirstBank Data Corporation - Lakewood, CO USA
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-12, 7:55 am |
|
> model 2096-U02, running at 526 MIPS. Any idea what size your VSE box is?
> One thing (among others) that I would worry about if moving to MF and Unix
> would be performance.
>
We have approx. 20MIPS. Recent Tests esp. with DB2 (8.x on AIX) and MF-
Cobol on a midsize AIX System do show factor 20 in Performance
(better).
> Oh, another question. What type of data access do you use on VSE? VSAM?
> DB2? DL/I?
DL/I is elliminated. VSAM and DB2 are the only access systems. VSAM
because of performance (see above).
:-) as the thing goes on I am shure that I will post again.
Kind regards
Michael
| |
| Frank Swarbrick 2007-02-12, 6:55 pm |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de<michael.bierenfeld@web.de> 02/12/07 6:11 AM >>>
>
is?[color=darkred]
Unix[color=darkred]
>
>We have approx. 20MIPS. Recent Tests esp. with DB2 (8.x on AIX) and MF-
>Cobol on a midsize AIX System do show factor 20 in Performance
>(better).
>
VSAM?[color=darkred]
>
>DL/I is elliminated. VSAM and DB2 are the only access systems. VSAM
>because of performance (see above).
>
>:-) as the thing goes on I am shure that I will post again.
How long ago did you eliminate DL/I? Did you "convert" the DL/I databases
to DB2? Was this done "by hand", with a tool, or what? (We're looking into
perhaps doing this.)
Frank
---
Frank Swarbrick
Senior Developer/Analyst - Mainframe Applications
FirstBank Data Corporation - Lakewood, CO USA
| |
| Clark F Morris 2007-02-12, 6:55 pm |
| On 12 Feb 2007 05:11:44 -0800, "michael.bierenfeld@web.de"
<michael.bierenfeld@web.de> wrote:
>
>
>We have approx. 20MIPS. Recent Tests esp. with DB2 (8.x on AIX) and MF-
>Cobol on a midsize AIX System do show factor 20 in Performance
>(better).
>
>
>DL/I is elliminated. VSAM and DB2 are the only access systems. VSAM
>because of performance (see above).
>
>:-) as the thing goes on I am shure that I will post again.
>
>Kind regards
Do full volume stress testing. The design points of the two boxes are
different. Also be aware that 20 MIPS is small potatoes in the
current z world and that you might be able to actually get a z system
that will run your current load cheaper (lower electricity and  ing
costs, software deals, etc.). Comparing an old box with a new one
doesn't really give the full picture. AIX, VSE or z/OS all have
interesting capabilities for business and depending on the business,
one has a better set of tradeoffs. If there is a lot of task and
context switching, the AIX box may well do worse than the z box. In
addition, overall your organization may be better off on an i series
(successor to the AS400). The business plan and goals can help
determine direction.
>
>Michael
| |
|
| On 9 Feb., 17:55, "michael.bierenf...@web.de"
<michael.bierenf...@web.de> wrote:
>
> It is not a question of workload. You dont find to many companies here
> in Germany that do offer VSE support (outsourcing). On the other side
> Software Development with "modern" Tools like Microfocus is different
> than using VM/VSE Tools.
>
> Yep we are planing to migrate CICS and Batch Jobs. For CICS its
> planned to use MTO. Batch will be native Cobol with UC4 as Scheduling
> system. JCL interpreted or ported to Shell Scripts (not decided yet)
>
> Kind regards
>
> Michael
Michael,
I can tell you that AIX on pSeries is an excellent target platform.
One of the recent migration projects we did was from a Unisys
Clearpath 2200 mainframe to AIX pSeries. Excellent performance results
and an very stable system.
The system is productive since about 18 month now and there where no
problems whatsoever, neither in AIX, MF COBOL or Oracle.
Here are just a few figures:
COBOL batch programs: 600
COBOL online programs: 300
COBOL Subprograms: 1.000
Lines of COBOL source code: 1.1 million
Job control runs: 1.500
Record types in database: 550
and lots of special interfaces
Target system:
IBM p570 HCMP Cluster
AIX 5.2
Oracle 9
MF Server Express
Number of online users > 1.500
Number of concurrent users about 1.000
Transaction response time < 0.3 seconds
Number of database accesses / Transaction > 30
Unix to replace a mainframe is always a matter of what the workload is
going to be, in most cases there a viable Unix offerings providing the
expected performance and stability. For those that see performance as
a problem, there is still Linux on the zSeries systems, providing the
best of both worlds. A zSeries system is hower most likely just only
to be considered for the largest implementations.
There are lots of choices these days.
Regards HansJ
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-13, 7:55 am |
| > How long ago did you eliminate DL/I? Did you "convert" the DL/I databases
> to DB2? Was this done "by hand", with a tool, or what? (We're looking into
> perhaps doing this.)
DL/I is now DB2. The conversion has been done "by Hand". But we were
in the lucky situation that we did not have to many of them.
Michael
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-13, 7:55 am |
| > Do full volume stress testing. The design points of the two boxes are
> different. Also be aware that 20 MIPS is small potatoes in the
> current z world
Thats one of the reasons the migration is planned. We are not such a
big shop that z makes sense (too expensive for the workload)
We do outperform our needs on the target platform. So we are on the
secure side.
michael
| |
| Fabrizio Calabretta 2007-02-13, 6:55 pm |
| On Jan 24, 12:56 pm, "michael.bierenf...@web.de"
<michael.bierenf...@web.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> we are in the evaluation phase of converting a bunch of applications to
> MF/Cobol. The Programms work fine and right now I am trying to figure
> out the best way to handle all this JCL-Stuff. Eg.
>
> The JCL says :
>
> * $$JOB JNM=REI-V94,DISP=D,CLASS=0,PRI=8
> * $$LST CLASS=A,DISP=H,FNO=33AE,FCB=FCB000Z8,LST
=B0E
> // JOB ZAKMTE ---- UNVERFALLBARKEIT
> // ASSGN SYS010,B0E
> LIBDEF *,SEARCH=ALLES.TEST
> // EXEC VSB094,SIZE=512K
> 99 70000000 98000000
> /*
> /&
> * $$EOJ
>
> COBOL uses this :
>
> FILE-CONTROL.
> SELECT LISTFILE
> ASSIGN TO SYS010-UR-3203-S.
>
> So the Name of the Spool File is dynamically setted by the JCL. How do
> I do this with a shell script or a call to the MF/Cobol Runtime
> "runcob32".
>
> For SYSIPT I have done the following. According to the JCL-Above
>
> #!/bin/bash
> echo "99 70000000 98000000" | ./VSB094
>
> This is then used in COBOL with
>
> 01 ACC-IPT1.
> 05 FILLER PIC XXXX.
> 05 VLK-VNR-BEGINN PIC X(8).
> 05 FILLER PIC X(1).
> 05 VLK-VNR-ENDE PIC X(8).
>
> ACCEPT ACC-IPT1 FROM SYSIPT.
>
> And I have the Parameters. But how to handle those filenames ?
>
> Kind regards
>
> Michael
If your considering migrating from VSE to Linux, take a look at XFRAME
(www.htwc.com)
It seems they have a solution for cobol/cics/vse to linux
Bye
| |
| Alistair 2007-02-13, 6:55 pm |
| On 13 Feb, 09:23, "HansJ" <hji...@kup.de> wrote:
> Unix to replace a mainframe is always a matter of what the workload is
> going to be, in most cases there a viable Unix offerings providing the
> expected performance and stability. For those that see performance as
> a problem, there is still Linux on the zSeries systems, providing the
> best of both worlds. A zSeries system is hower most likely just only
> to be considered for the largest implementations.
>
Just for fun visit: www.actscorp.com/reboothill.htm
It tells a few horror tales about going to Unix.
| |
|
| In article <1171393493.484389.33090@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Alistair <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 13 Feb, 09:23, "HansJ" <hji...@kup.de> wrote:
>
>Just for fun visit: www.actscorp.com/reboothill.htm
>It tells a few horror tales about going to Unix.
I've visited this website before... and without names, dates or anything
verifiable it seems to fall into the category of 'A guy told me...'
DD
| |
|
| On 13 Feb., 20:04, "Alistair" <alist...@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 13 Feb, 09:23, "HansJ" <hji...@kup.de> wrote:
>
>
> Just for fun visit:www.actscorp.com/reboothill.htm
> It tells a few horror tales about going to Unix.
Alistair,
I have no doubts that there is some truth behind any of those stories,
but you're not going to tell me that this is typical for migration
projects. Most of the stories found there tried to implement something
new and failed. I have similar stories I could tell, but it is
typically not a migration project that fails.
Unix is a rock-solid operating system when we talk about the main
brands (HPUX, Solaris, AIX).
Just read the numbers of the sample I stated.
During the normal business hours (between 7:00am and 4:00pm - between
950 and 1.000 concurrent users and an average response time at about
0.3 seconds with quite some database accesses - what else are you
asking for...???).
This is just one of many examples that I can tell about, though we are
only playing in the Unisys fields.
Michael, keep going, you're on the right track...
Regards HansJ
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-14, 7:55 am |
|
> Just for fun visit:www.actscorp.com/reboothill.htm
> It tells a few horror tales about going to Unix.
I can tell you a lot of stories about projects that failed. Some of
them have been migration projects some of them not.
Nobody would do such a thing if there is no need.
So we take the risk and do it.
Kind regards
Michael
| |
|
| In article <1171453867.284714.316160@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
michael.bierenfeld@web.de <michael.bierenfeld@web.de> wrote:
>
>
>I can tell you a lot of stories about projects that failed. Some of
>them have been migration projects some of them not.
>
>Nobody would do such a thing if there is no need.
What constitutes a 'need', Mr Bierenfeld, may be seen as a matter of
perception. Consider:
Most life, as it is presently defined, needs SCHNOPPS - Sodium, Carbon,
Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Potassium, Phosphorus and Sulfur - in order to
exist.
Most employees, as they are presently defined, need to make a good show of
doing what their boss tells them in order to keep their jobs.
DD
| |
| Alistair 2007-02-14, 6:55 pm |
|
docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
> In article <1171393493.484389.33090@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> Alistair <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I've visited this website before... and without names, dates or anything
> verifiable it seems to fall into the category of 'A guy told me...'
>
> DD
Too true, but naming names leads to litigation. For what it is worth,
I have seen two attempts to migrate to non-mainframe solutions (DRS
and then AS400) fail and I left before the third bore fruit (rotten on
the vine or otherwise). I hope that those who review the site take
note of the lessons that can be learned before bolloxing up their own
migrations.
| |
| Alistair 2007-02-14, 6:55 pm |
|
HansJ wrote:
> On 13 Feb., 20:04, "Alistair" <alist...@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Alistair,
> I have no doubts that there is some truth behind any of those stories,
> but you're not going to tell me that this is typical for migration
> projects. Most of the stories found there tried to implement something
> new and failed. I have similar stories I could tell, but it is
> typically not a migration project that fails.
> Unix is a rock-solid operating system when we talk about the main
> brands (HPUX, Solaris, AIX).
> Just read the numbers of the sample I stated.
> During the normal business hours (between 7:00am and 4:00pm - between
> 950 and 1.000 concurrent users and an average response time at about
> 0.3 seconds with quite some database accesses - what else are you
> asking for...???).
> This is just one of many examples that I can tell about, though we are
> only playing in the Unisys fields.
>
> Michael, keep going, you're on the right track...
>
> Regards HansJ
It is intended as a warning. I have worked on Unix (Sun Solaris V) and
consider it to be a Mickey Mouse OS. Now I'm gonna be sued by Disney
for TM infringement.
| |
|
| In article <1171488253.785130.227760@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
Alistair <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>It is intended as a warning. I have worked on Unix (Sun Solaris V) and
>consider it to be a Mickey Mouse OS. Now I'm gonna be sued by Disney
>for TM infringement.
If http://209.161.33.50/dictionary/mickey%20mouse is permitted as evidence
they might have a difficult time winning.
DD
| |
| Pete Dashwood 2007-02-15, 7:55 am |
|
<docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:eqv3sc$c6l$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In article <1171453867.284714.316160@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
> michael.bierenfeld@web.de <michael.bierenfeld@web.de> wrote:
>
> What constitutes a 'need', Mr Bierenfeld, may be seen as a matter of
> perception. Consider:
>
> Most life, as it is presently defined, needs SCHNOPPS - Sodium, Carbon,
> Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Potassium, Phosphorus and Sulfur - in order to
> exist.
>
> Most employees, as they are presently defined, need to make a good show of
> doing what their boss tells them in order to keep their jobs.
>
> DD
>
I wonder if MR GINER (Movement, Respiration, Growth & Repair, Irritability
(in the sense of stimulus response or nervous system), Nutrition, Excretion,
and Reproduction - the functions which determine for a Zoologist whether
something is a life form - Botanists have slightly different criteria :-))
comes home at the end of a hard day and takes a shot of SCHNOPPS...
Pete.
| |
| Alistair 2007-02-15, 6:55 pm |
| On 15 Feb, 10:01, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
wrote:
> <docdw...@panix.com> wrote in messagenews:eqv3sc$c6l$1@reader2.panix.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I wonder if MR GINER (Movement, Respiration, Growth & Repair, Irritability
> (in the sense of stimulus response or nervous system), Nutrition, Excretion,
> and Reproduction - the functions which determine for a Zoologist whether
> something is a life form - Botanists have slightly different criteria :-))
> comes home at the end of a hard day and takes a shot of SCHNOPPS...
>
> Pete.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sorry to be pedantic but shouldn't SCHNOPPS be NaCH2N2O2KPS? where the
2 is supposed to be a subscript.
| |
| Alistair 2007-02-15, 6:55 pm |
| On 15 Feb, 00:33, docdw...@panix.com () wrote:
> In article <1171488253.785130.227...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Alistair <alist...@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Ifhttp://209.161.33.50/dictionary/mickey%20mouseis permitted as evidence
> they might have a difficult time winning.
>
> DD
Now I should be able to sleep at nights again.
| |
| Howard Brazee 2007-02-15, 6:55 pm |
| On 14 Feb 2007 13:24:13 -0800, "Alistair"
<alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>It is intended as a warning. I have worked on Unix (Sun Solaris V) and
>consider it to be a Mickey Mouse OS. Now I'm gonna be sued by Disney
>for TM infringement.
I thought Disney used Univac machines.
| |
|
| In article <1171553700.163457.299880@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Alistair <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 15 Feb, 00:33, docdw...@panix.com () wrote:
>
>Now I should be able to sleep at nights again.
Yep, that's me, the sure-fire cure for insomnia... why, I remember once,
when I was a lad, we was ridin' the rods on th' Monan road, me 'n ol'
Lefty... called 'im Lefty 'cause... well, 'cause that's what we called
'im, ain't ever'thin' got a reason behind it... like callin' this chair a
'chair' or callin' yer dawg Phideaux 'er an'athin' like that... anyhow, we
was ridin' th' rods on the Monan road, right pleasant bed it had, too...
not as good as the Phoebe Snow, now *there* was road, all anthracite-fired
an' slicker'n a hound's tooth... not like Phideaux, no, he's always showed
a bit of a shadow on the left bicuspidor... anyhow, me 'n Lefty, we was
ridin' the rods on the Monan road...
.... zzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzz...
DD
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|
| In article <1171553657.725268.267530@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
Alistair <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 15 Feb, 10:01, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
>wrote:
[snip]
[color=darkred]
[snip]
[color=darkred]
>Sorry to be pedantic but shouldn't SCHNOPPS be NaCH2N2O2KPS? where the
>2 is supposed to be a subscript.
It should if one might wish to reduce its value as a mnemonic device to
those who are familiar with English names for elements, perhaps.
DD
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|
| On 15 Feb., 16:49, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
> On 14 Feb 2007 13:24:13 -0800, "Alistair"
>
> <alist...@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I thought Disney used Univac machines.
Howard,
at least they did at some point in time...
Walt Disney Pictures & Television
Burbank, California, USA
Migration from Unisys OS 2200 mainframe to UNIX and Sybase
Migration of Unisys ACOB to Micro Focus COBOL.
Migration from MSAM to Sybase on Digital UNIX.
Migration of DPS Screens.
Conversion of ECL to Bourne shell scripts.
Long long time ago... done by Inglenet
regards HansJ
| |
| Clark F Morris 2007-02-15, 6:55 pm |
| On 13 Feb 2007 03:48:14 -0800, "michael.bierenfeld@web.de"
<michael.bierenfeld@web.de> wrote:
>
>Thats one of the reasons the migration is planned. We are not such a
>big shop that z makes sense (too expensive for the workload)
Did you check out the new z BC class machines? IBM may have gotten
the pricing for the hardware/software combination back down out of the
stratosphere.
>
>We do outperform our needs on the target platform. So we are on the
>secure side.
>
>michael
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-19, 9:55 pm |
|
> What constitutes a 'need', Mr Bierenfeld, may be seen as a matter of
> perception. Consider:
The need is :
- lack of outsourcers here in germany
- prize
- Development to unflexible. Compare it with Eclipse or MF-IDE and you
will see
- Developers have to be quick-frozen and defrosted on demand
> Most employees, as they are presently defined, need to make a good show of
> doing what their boss tells them in order to keep their jobs.
>
Agreed :-)
Michael
| |
|
| In article <1171896055.714830.218530@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
michael.bierenfeld@web.de <michael.bierenfeld@web.de> wrote:
>
>
>The need is :
>
>- lack of outsourcers here in germany
>- prize
>- Development to unflexible. Compare it with Eclipse or MF-IDE and you
>will see
>- Developers have to be quick-frozen and defrosted on demand
Ahhhh... it seems like a variation of the ever-popular exchange:
Programmer: I can get it to you on time, according to specification or
withih the budget; pick two.
Manager: I pick all three.
P: That wasn't one of the choices.
M: I made it one, it is a choice now.
P: You are a programmer now, too; you make new choices, you write new
code.
DD
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-20, 7:55 am |
| On 19 Feb., 16:23, docdw...@panix.com () wrote:
> In article <1171896055.714830.218...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> michael.bierenf...@web.de <michael.bierenf...@web.de> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Ahhhh... it seems like a variation of the ever-popular exchange:
>
> Programmer: I can get it to you on time, according to specification or
> withih the budget; pick two.
>
> Manager: I pick all three.
>
> P: That wasn't one of the choices.
>
> M: I made it one, it is a choice now.
>
> P: You are a programmer now, too; you make new choices, you write new
> code.
>
> DD
M and P have to think in both directions. Thats my opinion.
Most ot the business stuff is now handled by SAP/Peoplesoft. Whats
left is a lot of specific software written in years and years. The
entropy in that code is quite high.
So retirement is an issue. And do you think you find talented people
that do wanna work in the dusty environment like their ancestors.
michael
| |
|
| In article <1171965926.094570.259470@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
michael.bierenfeld@web.de <michael.bierenfeld@web.de> wrote:
>On 19 Feb., 16:23, docdw...@panix.com () wrote:
[snip]
>
>M and P have to think in both directions. Thats my opinion.
What 'has to be' is not, in my experience, necessarily the same as 'is',
Mr Bierenfeld... and I will be polite and not mention what my Drill
Sergeant taught us back in Basic Training for the United States Air Force
about 'opionion'; his language was very... Sergeantly.
>
>Most ot the business stuff is now handled by SAP/Peoplesoft. Whats
>left is a lot of specific software written in years and years. The
>entropy in that code is quite high.
I was taught that 'entropy' is tendency, in a closed thermodynamic system,
for the components thereof to assume their least-ordered configuration; I
am having difficulty seeing how this applies to compiled programs unless
you mean that the tapes on which they are being stored are losing their
magnetic substrate.
>
>So retirement is an issue. And do you think you find talented people
>that do wanna work in the dusty environment like their ancestors.
I find that talented people enjoy doing a variety of things, one of them
being 'making a decent dollar for a job well-done'. Is your management
saying 'we cannot find people with these skills' or 'we cannot find people
with these skills at the prices we wish to pay'?
DD
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-20, 7:55 am |
| > What 'has to be' is not, in my experience, necessarily the same as 'is',
> Mr Bierenfeld... and I will be polite and not mention what my Drill
> Sergeant taught us back in Basic Training for the United States Air Force
> about 'opionion'; his language was very... Sergeantly.
The 'is' is irrelevant in means of busines. Because you have it
already. What 'has to be' is the future. And greetings to your drill
sergeant.
> I was taught that 'entropy' is tendency, in a closed thermodynamic system,
> for the components thereof to assume their least-ordered configuration; I
> am having difficulty seeing how this applies to compiled programs unless
> you mean that the tapes on which they are being stored are losing their
> magnetic substrate.
The tendency for software, over time, to become difficult and costly
to maintain. New functionality, changes, bug fixes. What's so hard to
understand ?
> Is your management
> saying 'we cannot find people with these skills' or 'we cannot find people
> with these skills at the prices we wish to pay'?
>
Exactly. But it is an "and".
Regards
Michael
I will not answer any more
| |
|
| In article <1171971469.831108.159240@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
michael.bierenfeld@web.de <michael.bierenfeld@web.de> wrote:
>
>The 'is' is irrelevant in means of busines.
If that is how it is, Mr Bierenfeld... then that, in means of business, is
irrelevant.
[snip]
>
>The tendency for software, over time, to become difficult and costly
>to maintain. New functionality, changes, bug fixes. What's so hard to
>understand ?
What I find to understand, Mr Bierenfeld, is how flaws in software design
(for instance, hard-coded values) or changes in a business' fundamentals
are given a label which is defined as a tendency for a system to go to
disorder. What you posit seems to more and/or new rules, an *increase* in
order.
>
>
>Exactly. But it is an "and".
It may be perceived as an 'and', Mr Bierenfeld, but I wonder if an
experiment would reflect this appearance. The next time you hear someone
saying 'we cannot find people with these skills' ask if they have tried
doubling the rate offered for the position.
>
>Regards
>
>Michael
>
>I will not answer any more
A pity... there's *so* much to discuss, too!
DD
| |
| Roger While 2007-02-20, 6:55 pm |
| I am here in Germany,
I am the developer for OpenCOBOL
and I am available for hire :-)
Roger
<docdwarf@panix.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ereq59$cj4$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In article <1171971469.831108.159240@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> michael.bierenfeld@web.de <michael.bierenfeld@web.de> wrote:
>
> If that is how it is, Mr Bierenfeld... then that, in means of business, is
> irrelevant.
>
> [snip]
>
>
> What I find to understand, Mr Bierenfeld, is how flaws in software design
> (for instance, hard-coded values) or changes in a business' fundamentals
> are given a label which is defined as a tendency for a system to go to
> disorder. What you posit seems to more and/or new rules, an *increase* in
> order.
>
>
> It may be perceived as an 'and', Mr Bierenfeld, but I wonder if an
> experiment would reflect this appearance. The next time you hear someone
> saying 'we cannot find people with these skills' ask if they have tried
> doubling the rate offered for the position.
>
>
> A pity... there's *so* much to discuss, too!
>
> DD
>
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-21, 7:55 am |
| On 20 Feb., 18:26, "Roger While" <s...@sim-basis.de> wrote:
> I am here in Germany,
> I am the developer for OpenCOBOL
> and I am available for hire :-)
>
:-) Do you now VisualAge for Cobol ? We have a bunch of VisualAge
Programs that have to be transferred to Microfocus Cobol. Automatic
translation may be an option.
Regards
Michael
| |
| William M. Klein 2007-02-21, 6:55 pm |
| Michael,
Are you using Micro Focus "Net Express" or "Mainframe Express" product?
Either way, source code conversion from IBM VisualAge COBOL to any Micro Focus
product should be (mostly) just a matter of selecting the right directives.
If you have CICS and JCL issues, then MF also provides solutions for that as
well.
--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
<michael.bierenfeld@web.de> wrote in message
news:1172059522.526834.304660@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On 20 Feb., 18:26, "Roger While" <s...@sim-basis.de> wrote:
>
> :-) Do you now VisualAge for Cobol ? We have a bunch of VisualAge
> Programs that have to be transferred to Microfocus Cobol. Automatic
> translation may be an option.
>
> Regards
>
> Michael
>
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| > Are you using Micro Focus "Net Express" or "Mainframe Express" product?
> Either way, source code conversion from IBM VisualAge COBOL to any Micro Focus
> product should be (mostly) just a matter of selecting the right directives.
Hello,
we are using "Server Express". VisualAge Cobol does not look like
Cobol it is some sort of "high level" COBOL. Can you give me a
reference for that ?
Kind regards
michael
| |
| William M. Klein 2007-02-23, 6:55 pm |
| Sounds to me as if you are using "VisualAge GENERATOR" and not "VisualAge
COBOL". The former product is a follow-up to the earlier (mainframe) CSP
product - and is an "application generator" product. It does provide an option
(as I recall) to "generate" COBOL source code, but the "development" is done in
a high-level language.
Check out:
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/awdtools/visgen/
and see if that is what you currently have. If so, you COULD migrate to Micro
Focus "APS" - which is a "similar" product. I do NOT know if they (MF) do or
don't have migration strategies from the IBM generator to theirs - but I think
they might - if you contact them and ask about it.
--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
<michael.bierenfeld@web.de> wrote in message
news:1172244444.263017.308950@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hello,
>
> we are using "Server Express". VisualAge Cobol does not look like
> Cobol it is some sort of "high level" COBOL. Can you give me a
> reference for that ?
>
> Kind regards
>
> michael
>
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-27, 7:55 am |
|
> Sounds to me as if you are using "VisualAge GENERATOR" and not "VisualAge
> COBOL"
Yes we are using VisualAge generator. The Highlevel Code is
transformed to cobol and then used on the Host.
> and see if that is what you currently have. If so, you COULD migrate to Micro
> Focus "APS" - which is a "similar" product. I do NOT know if they (MF) do or
> don't have migration strategies from the IBM generator to theirs - but I think
> they might - if you contact them and ask about it.
We do not want to replace VisualAge Generator with MF-APS. The goal is
to have transfered VisualAge -> Cobol running with MF under AIX.
Kind regards
Michael
| |
| William M. Klein 2007-02-27, 6:55 pm |
| Michael,
I remember the code that CSP used to create and it was pretty obscure, but I
don't think I have ever seen what VisualAge Generator creates. You certainly
COULD
- Step 1, run VisualAge Generator to create COBOL code (Selecting CICS as the
target environment)
- Transfer THAT code (not the high-level stuff) to AIX
- Use Micro Focus to compile and maintain the generated COBOL code - with a
CICS add-on
However, my best guess is that the code you would be working with would be
pretty ugly. I also suspect that there MIGHT be some VA Gen specific run-time
modules that you would need to "emulate" on AIX.
NOTE: Some Micro Focus features such as REVOLVE and their "refactory
facilities" MIGHT help you convert
VisualAge Generator created COBOL to "maintainable" source code.
Having said all of this, my BEST suggestion would be for you to contact MF
directly and ask for their migration assistance/advice. If you would like me
to, even though I don't work for MF, I could send some enquiries and find out
who would be the best person in MF to work with you and have them get in touch
with you directly. If this sounds good to you, please email me directly -
off-list.
Am I correct from the ".de" in your email address that you are in Germany? This
might impact who can/should work with you. Do you have a purchased copy of
Server Express - or are you still working under "evaluation"?
--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
<michael.bierenfeld@web.de> wrote in message
news:1172579615.417643.216770@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Yes we are using VisualAge generator. The Highlevel Code is
> transformed to cobol and then used on the Host.
>
>
> We do not want to replace VisualAge Generator with MF-APS. The goal is
> to have transfered VisualAge -> Cobol running with MF under AIX.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Michael
>
>
>
| |
| michael.bierenfeld@web.de 2007-02-28, 7:55 am |
|
The "ugly" code from VisualAge Generator has been considered
unmaintainable by the Cobol people. There is another approach
automatically transform the "High" Level Code. But there are still
problems and we are not yet convinced that the tool we are using is
the best.
>
> NOTE: Some Micro Focus features such as REVOLVE and their "refactory
> facilities" MIGHT help you convert
> VisualAge Generator created COBOL to "maintainable" source code.
>
> Am I correct from the ".de" in your email address that you are in Germany? This
> might impact who can/should work with you. Do you have a purchased copy of
> Server Express - or are you still working under "evaluation"?
>
Yep Germany. Munich in fact. Its all purchased.
Kind Regards
Michael
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