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| Judson McClendon 2007-12-21, 6:56 pm |
| I haven't used Vista yet. My son just bought a new high performance
Dell computer with Vista. He says it seems really slow and sluggish.
Is that a common experience with Vista?
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
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| Judson McClendon wrote:
> I haven't used Vista yet. My son just bought a new high performance
> Dell computer with Vista. He says it seems really slow and sluggish.
> Is that a common experience with Vista?
Initially, yes. My work computer is pretty fast now, but when I was
setting it up, it was sluggish. Now, the only time I get the UAC prompt
is when I start up Visual J# (Visual Studio wants to run in
Administrator mode).
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V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e h---- r+++ z++++
"Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see,
or a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" - Brad Stine
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| LX-i wrote:
> Judson McClendon wrote:
>
> Initially, yes. My work computer is pretty fast now, but when I was
> setting it up, it was sluggish. Now, the only time I get the UAC prompt
> is when I start up Visual J# (Visual Studio wants to run in
> Administrator mode).
Yes, talking to myself here...
RAM is the key to making Vista hum. My son's Vista machine has 512MB -
and, while I've been able to make it a little more responsive, sluggish
is it's MO. My wife's Vista machine has 1GB - on it, the processes and
extra things are what makes the difference. When she's doing photo
editing, it takes its time, but otherwise, it's responsive enough. It's
a dual 64-bit machine, and I would think it should be more responsive.
However, it's still faster than her previous one. My work computer has
2GB RAM, and it works fine - runs Aero and all the fancy eye candy
without batting an eyelash. It has a dual 32-bit processor.
In the point of my son's machine - even if it's a brand new machine, it
may be underpowered in the RAM department. Also, separate video RAM
makes a big difference, especially when dealing with the eye candy. If
the processor has to do the regular work *and* do all the display work,
it's going to be slower than it would if something else handled the display.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \/ _ o ~ Live from Albuquerque, NM! ~
~ _ /\ | ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Business E-mail ~ daniel @ "Business Website" below ~
~ Business Website ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com ~
~ Tech Blog ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com/linux/blog ~
~ Personal E-mail ~ "Personal Blog" as e-mail address ~
~ Personal Blog ~ http://daniel.summershome.org ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ !O M--
V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e h---- r+++ z++++
"Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see,
or a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" - Brad Stine
| |
| Judson McClendon 2007-12-21, 6:56 pm |
| "LX-i" <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> RAM is the key to making Vista hum. My son's Vista machine has 512MB - and, while I've been able to make it a little more
> responsive, sluggish is it's MO. My wife's Vista machine has 1GB - on it, the processes and extra things are what makes the
> difference. When she's doing photo editing, it takes its time, but otherwise, it's responsive enough. It's a dual 64-bit
> machine, and I would think it should be more responsive. However, it's still faster than her previous one. My work computer has
> 2GB RAM, and it works fine - runs Aero and all the fancy eye candy without batting an eyelash. It has a dual 32-bit processor.
>
> In the point of my son's machine - even if it's a brand new machine, it may be underpowered in the RAM department. Also, separate
> video RAM makes a big difference, especially when dealing with the eye candy. If the processor has to do the regular work *and*
> do all the display work, it's going to be slower than it would if something else handled the display.
In my son's case, he has 4GB RAM, and (he says) the fastest Intel dual
core CPU available at the moment, and a super fast graphics card (he's
into gaming). He just got it this w . Why a machine like that would be
sluggish beats me.
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
| Richard 2007-12-21, 6:56 pm |
| On Dec 22, 9:41 am, "Judson McClendon" <ju...@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
> "LX-i" <lxi0...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> In my son's case, he has 4GB RAM, and (he says) the fastest Intel dual
> core CPU available at the moment, and a super fast graphics card (he's
> into gaming). He just got it this w. Why a machine like that would be
> sluggish beats me.
If it is not running 64bit Windows then the 4Gb is wasted, much of it
won't be addressed.
If it is 64bit you may find there are more compatibility problems than
with 32bit Vista.
| |
| Howard Brazee 2007-12-21, 6:56 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:07:44 -0800 (PST), Richard
<riplin@azonic.co.nz> wrote:
>
>If it is not running 64bit Windows then the 4Gb is wasted, much of it
>won't be addressed.
>
>If it is 64bit you may find there are more compatibility problems than
>with 32bit Vista.
Of course, with 4G and a dual core CPU or better, OS-X runs just fine.
| |
| Richard 2007-12-21, 6:56 pm |
| On Dec 22, 10:15 am, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:07:44 -0800 (PST), Richard
>
> <rip...@azonic.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
>
> Of course, with 4G and a dual core CPU or better, OS-X runs just fine.
On my cheap 4 year old laptop with an indifferent Celeron (1.4 I
think), a half Gig RAM and an integrated video Ubuntu 7.10 runs great
with wobbly windows and other effects which _don't_ slow the system
down. And it found and used all the hardware straight out of the box
including a WiFi card.
Microsoft's customers are _not_ you and I, they are HP, Dell and PC
shops. To keep these customers happy it is necessary to 'encourage'
end-users into buying more and more hardware and increasing the
revenue. Besides this makes the amount sent back to MS seem only a
smaller percentage of total system revenue.
To follow the curve of PC price trends they should be $US200 - $US300
with laptops being maybe $US400. MS want more than this for their
software so they add cruft until the required system is 2x or 3x or
morex the MS revenue.
Put the latest Ubuntu on your 5 year old system that will otherwise
wind up polluting the landfill and you will likely be faster than a
Vista system, and still do what most users want from a computer
(internet, email, chat, facebook, a few bits of typing).
For games, get a Wii and get off the couch.
| |
|
| Judson McClendon wrote:
> "LX-i" <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> In my son's case, he has 4GB RAM, and (he says) the fastest Intel dual
> core CPU available at the moment, and a super fast graphics card (he's
> into gaming). He just got it this w. Why a machine like that would be
> sluggish beats me.
I'd check to make sure all that electronic goodness is being utilized.
That was my problem with Vista - my laptop uses shared video memory, but
it wouldn't utilize it. This resulted in higher temperatures and slower
performance. :)
One thing to have him check is the process list in Task Manager. Under
Vista, he'll have to click the 'Show Processes from All Users' button,
as it masks processes he doesn't own by default. Look for something
either really huge, or something pegging one of the CPUs. I forget who,
but someone mentioned indexing. By default, the entire system drive is
indexed, I believe - changing that to only index commonly used files
(such as C:\Users\[his user name]), and the index update frequency, may
reduce the grinding of the hard drive.
I agree with you - with the specs of that machine, it should run even
something like Windows ME well. ;)
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \/ _ o ~ Live from Albuquerque, NM! ~
~ _ /\ | ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Business E-mail ~ daniel @ "Business Website" below ~
~ Business Website ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com ~
~ Tech Blog ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com/linux/blog ~
~ Personal E-mail ~ "Personal Blog" as e-mail address ~
~ Personal Blog ~ http://daniel.summershome.org ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ !O M--
V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e h---- r+++ z++++
"Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see,
or a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" - Brad Stine
| |
| Robert 2007-12-22, 3:56 am |
| On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:16:38 -0800 (PST), Richard <riplin@azonic.co.nz> wrote:
>On Dec 22, 10:15 am, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>
>On my cheap 4 year old laptop with an indifferent Celeron (1.4 I
>think), a half Gig RAM and an integrated video Ubuntu 7.10 runs great
>with wobbly windows and other effects which _don't_ slow the system
>down. And it found and used all the hardware straight out of the box
>including a WiFi card.
>
>Microsoft's customers are _not_ you and I, they are HP, Dell and PC
>shops.
You got that right.
>To keep these customers happy it is necessary to 'encourage'
>end-users into buying more and more hardware and increasing the
>revenue. Besides this makes the amount sent back to MS seem only a
>smaller percentage of total system revenue.
Memory is cheap. So what if it takes two gigabytes? The system still sells for $400.
>To follow the curve of PC price trends they should be $US200 - $US300
>with laptops being maybe $US400. MS want more than this for their
>software so they add cruft until the required system is 2x or 3x or
>morex the MS revenue.
Nah. Microsoft charges heavy hitters like Dell about $50 per copy.
>Put the latest Ubuntu on your 5 year old system that will otherwise
>wind up polluting the landfill and you will likely be faster than a
>Vista system, and still do what most users want from a computer
>(internet, email, chat, facebook, a few bits of typing).
Last month I paid $100 for an HP Pavilion that someone actually rescued from a landfill.
It's about 8 years old, weighs 20 pounds and emits a terrible noise from its power supply
fan. I equipped it with Ubuntu. It doesn't run any faster than it did under W2K. Plus, one
of its cards is of the soft Windows persuasion. None of the Linux drivers knows how to
make it work.
>For games, get a Wii and get off the couch.
What's a Wii?
| |
| Richard 2007-12-22, 3:56 am |
| On Dec 22, 5:18 pm, Robert <n...@e.mail> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:16:38 -0800 (PST), Richard <rip...@azonic.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You got that right.
>
>
> Memory is cheap. So what if it takes two gigabytes? The system still sells for $400.
>
>
> Nah. Microsoft charges heavy hitters like Dell about $50 per copy.
For Vista Home Basic, yes. Make it Ultimate plus Office and it is
getting towards half the $400.
>
>
> Last month I paid $100 for an HP Pavilion that someone actually rescued from a landfill.
> It's about 8 years old, weighs 20 pounds and emits a terrible noise from its power supply
> fan.
So, why did you pay $100 ?
> I equipped it with Ubuntu. It doesn't run any faster than it did under W2K.
How and what did you measure 'under W2K' ? Anyway W2K was fine for
speed (except Games because the video drivers weren't in kernel). You
may note that I said 'Vista'.
> Plus, one
> of its cards is of the soft Windows persuasion. None of the Linux drivers knows how to
> make it work.
If it is a 'soft-Modem' then there are Linux drivers for some, but not
all. My laptop has a WinModem and Ubuntu made it work fine, but who
uses dial-up these days.
Anyway how did you determine that the card worked at all ? It may be
broken and the reason that the box was dumped.
>
> What's a Wii?
Do try and keep up. It's a Nintendo. The controller is a hand-held
device that works in 3 dimensions. To play tennis or bowling or sword
fighting you use the controller like you would a real racquet, bowl,
or sword.
| |
| Robert 2007-12-22, 7:55 am |
| On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:57:24 -0800 (PST), Richard <riplin@azonic.co.nz> wrote:
>On Dec 22, 5:18 pm, Robert <n...@e.mail> wrote:
>
>So, why did you pay $100 ?
It was available that wend and nearby. I could have negotiated down to $75, since I
wasn't taking the included CRT, kb and mouse.
>
>How and what did you measure 'under W2K' ?
Web browser, file Explorer and a few compilations
>Anyway W2K was fine for
>speed (except Games because the video drivers weren't in kernel). You
>may note that I said 'Vista'.
I've not had hands-on Vista except in-store demos. I know Vista moved DirectX out of
kernel mode by adding a new layer between it and hardware.
>
>If it is a 'soft-Modem' then there are Linux drivers for some, but not
>all. My laptop has a WinModem and Ubuntu made it work fine, but who
>uses dial-up these days.
Riptide is a combination softmodem and sound card. I don't care about modem, but would
like to have sound.
>Anyway how did you determine that the card worked at all ? It may be
>broken and the reason that the box was dumped.
The sound card worked under Windows.
>
>Do try and keep up. It's a Nintendo. The controller is a hand-held
>device that works in 3 dimensions. To play tennis or bowling or sword
>fighting you use the controller like you would a real racquet, bowl,
>or sword.
Looks good. Thanks.
| |
| Howard Brazee 2007-12-25, 6:56 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:18:01 -0600, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
>Memory is cheap. So what if it takes two gigabytes? The system still sells for $400.
While Macs aren't as expensive as I had once thought (compared for the
life of a comparable Windows machine they aren't expensive at all),
Apple charges an arm and a leg if we buy their RAM.
| |
| Judson McClendon 2007-12-25, 6:56 pm |
| "Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
>
> While Macs aren't as expensive as I had once thought (compared for the
> life of a comparable Windows machine they aren't expensive at all),
> Apple charges an arm and a leg if we buy their RAM.
That's one of the biggest problems with proprietary systems; they stick
it to you on upgrades. I avoid large companies like Dell for this reason.
If you build your own, or buy from smaller companies, you get industry
standard components of the type and quality you select. For someone as
dependent on their PCs as I am, that's important.
--
Judson McClendon judmc@sunvaley0.com (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
| |
| Robert 2007-12-25, 6:56 pm |
| On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 08:29:14 -0700, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:18:01 -0600, Robert <no@e.mail> wrote:
>
>
>While Macs aren't as expensive as I had once thought (compared for the
>life of a comparable Windows machine they aren't expensive at all),
>Apple charges an arm and a leg if we buy their RAM.
Yep. Apple charges $300 for 1GB DIMMs that are widely available for $100.
| |
| wizard78@yahoo.co.uk 2007-12-27, 7:55 am |
| On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:09:33 -0600, "Judson McClendon"
<judmc@sunvaley0.com> wrote:
>I haven't used Vista yet. My son just bought a new high performance
>Dell computer with Vista. He says it seems really slow and sluggish.
>Is that a common experience with Vista?
No. I think it's very nice with the occasional bug, such as losing DNS
and the shutdown hanging. Hopefully SP1 will fix these issues.
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