Cobol - Re: Happy New Zealand Day

Author

Re: Happy New Zealand Day

Pete Dashwood

2007-12-18, 6:55 pm

"SkippyPB" <swiegand@nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ggvfm3ho7codaf8llki5nnahmh7h5s8n46@
4ax.com...
> This message is aimed at Pete Dashwood who I bet is celebrating and,
> if not, now has a reason to.
>
> On this day (I know it is tomorrow in New Zealand, but humor me) Dec.
> 18th, in 1642, the first European discovered New Zealand by accident
> like most great discoveries.

(I'm afraid you lose your bet; it is too early for serious celebrating...
:-) I have a house guest from Germany staying here for a few w

s and it is
her first visit to the Southern hemisphere so we have been relaxing and
enjoying local food, wine, beaches and hot pools, rather than celebrating.
However, serious clebrating will start from New Year...:-))

Thanks Steve for the thought. We don't celebrate New Zealand Day (or
Waitangi Day) until the 6th February, and poor old Abel Tasman's achievement
goes largely unrecognised. (To be fair, he only contributed a line on the
map and it was left to Captain James Cook to circumnavigate and properly map
the three main islands of New Zealand over 100 years later.)

>
> Dutch seafarer and explorer Abel Tasman was the first European to
> reach New Zealand.

He may have been the first European RECORDED as reaching New Zealand. There
is some ambivalent evidence that Viking ships may have been here around the
4th Century AD... It has to do with fossilized rat bones which could only
have been brought on ships from Europe and which have been carbon dated to
that time. Definitely not definitive but an interesting idea. If it's true
it would pre-date the arrival of Maori by 5 - 6 hundred years.

> After sighting and taking formal possession of
> Tasmania, Tasman and his crew planned to sail north, but unfavorable
> winds caused them to turn east and discover the islands of New
> Zealand.
>
> Abel Tasman is best known for his voyages of 1642 and 1644 in the
> service of the VOC (United East India Company). His was the first
> known European expedition to reach the islands of Van Diemen's Land
> (now Tasmania) and New Zealand and to sight the Fiji islands, which he
> did in 1643. Tasman, his navigator Visscher, and his Merchant
> Gilsemans also mapped substantial portions of Australia, New Zealand
> and the Pacific Islands.
>
> After landing in Tasmania, Tasman had intended to proceed in a
> northerly direction but as the wind was unfavourable he steered east.
> On 13 December they sighted land on the north-west coast of the South
> Island, New Zealand. After some exploration he sailed further east,
> and nine days later was the first European known to sight New Zealand,
> which he named Staten Landt on the assumption that it was connected to
> an island (Staten Island, Argentina) at the south of the tip of South
> America.

That simply doesn't make sense. What is the source of this, Steve?

If he found the NW coast of the South Island, he was already in NZ. He
couldn't sail East from there unless he went through Cook Strait and if my
memory of school history serves correctly, he didn't do that. (Had he done
so and sailed East, he would have been leaving NZ.)

>Proceeding north and then east one of his boats was attacked
> by Ma-ori in waka, and four of his men were killed. It has recently
> been suggested that some of Tasman's sailors briefly landed here on 18
> December 1642. Tasman named it Murderers' Bay (now known as Golden
> Bay) and sailed north, but mistook Cook Strait for a bight (naming it
> Zeehaen's Bight).

Golden Bay is on the NW coast of the South Island and not nine days sailing
away from there. His ship was called "Zeehaen" (Sea Hen) so that makes
sense. I remember learning about the Maori canoe (waka) attack and him
losing some men (they killed several Maori as well).

Here's a link to Golden Bay: http://www.goldenbay.net.nz/en/guide.html

It is famous here for cement production.

>Two names that he bestowed on New Zealand landmarks
> still endure: Cape Maria van Diemen and Three Kings Islands (Cabo
> Pieter Boreels is now known as Cape Egmont).

(Not to mention the Tasman Sea :-))

>
> Cheers to all the Kiwis and have a cold one.

Thanks again for the thought, Steve :-)

The weather here has deteriorated a bit today (after a w

of mainly
sunshine in the Bay of Plenty) so a cold one isn't such an appetizing option
as it would normally be, but I'll raise a JD to you and thank you for your
kind thought.

Cheers!

Pete.

billious

2007-12-18, 9:56 pm

"Pete Dashwood" <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:5sqqusF1a9fjsU1@mid.individual.net...
[sn]
it was left to Captain James Cook to circumnavigate and properly map
> the three main islands of New Zealand over 100 years later
[sn]
Cheers!
>
> Pete.
>
So that'd be North Island, South Island and er, "West Island" no doubt? :)

Richard

2007-12-18, 9:56 pm

On Dec 19, 2:18 pm, "billious" <billious_1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote in message
>
> news:5sqqusF1a9fjsU1@mid.individual.net...
> [sn]
> it was left to Captain James Cook to circumnavigate and properly map> the three main islands of New Zealand over 100 years later
>
> [sn]
> Cheers!
>
>
> So that'd be North Island, South Island and er, "West Island" no doubt? :)

Stewart Island actually. Cook got it wrong and thought it was 'Stewart
Peninsular', otherwise they may have been called North, Middle and
South.

He also thought that the place named after his botanist was 'Banks
Island'. If you are in London you can go to Soho Square where Banks
lived and there is a garden of NZ plants started by Banks.

Richard Maher

2007-12-19, 7:55 am

> Stewart Island actually.

I thinks ye missed the point. After numerous posts about under arm bowling
and "Honestly officer I was only helping it over the fence" you might pick
it up :-)

Cheers Richard Maher

PS. I think dessert-island is the more common expression. (Having lived many
glorious months in CHCH I never liked "pig-islander", and you know what all
those JAFA Sydney-wannabes can do!)

"Richard" <riplin@azonic.co.nz> wrote in message
news:7821f6bd-a51f-458b-9c9a-77f89239546e@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 19, 2:18 pm, "billious" <billious_1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
the three main islands of New Zealand over 100 years later[color=darkred]
:)[color=darkred]
>
> Stewart Island actually. Cook got it wrong and thought it was 'Stewart
> Peninsular', otherwise they may have been called North, Middle and
> South.
>
> He also thought that the place named after his botanist was 'Banks
> Island'. If you are in London you can go to Soho Square where Banks
> lived and there is a garden of NZ plants started by Banks.
>

SkippyPB

2007-12-19, 6:56 pm

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:04:27 +1300, "Pete Dashwood"
<dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:

>
>
>"SkippyPB" <swiegand@nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:ggvfm3ho7codaf8llki5nnahmh7h5s8n46@
4ax.com...
>
>(I'm afraid you lose your bet; it is too early for serious celebrating...
>:-) I have a house guest from Germany staying here for a few w

s and it is
>her first visit to the Southern hemisphere so we have been relaxing and
>enjoying local food, wine, beaches and hot pools, rather than celebrating.
>However, serious clebrating will start from New Year...:-))
>
>Thanks Steve for the thought. We don't celebrate New Zealand Day (or
>Waitangi Day) until the 6th February, and poor old Abel Tasman's achievement
>goes largely unrecognised. (To be fair, he only contributed a line on the
>map and it was left to Captain James Cook to circumnavigate and properly map
>the three main islands of New Zealand over 100 years later.)
>
>
>
>He may have been the first European RECORDED as reaching New Zealand. There
>is some ambivalent evidence that Viking ships may have been here around the
>4th Century AD... It has to do with fossilized rat bones which could only
>have been brought on ships from Europe and which have been carbon dated to
>that time. Definitely not definitive but an interesting idea. If it's true
>it would pre-date the arrival of Maori by 5 - 6 hundred years.
>
>

Those pesky Vikings! They are also credited with discovering North
America long before Christopher Columbus landed here. In fact there
is plenty of historical evidence that Eric the Red landed in Greenland
in 982 AD. He was outlawed from Iceland and exiled to a great land to
the north. Eric spent three years exploring the country where he and
his men marked sites for their future farms. He called it Greenland
and sailed with 25 ships to settle there. But in the 1400s, the
settlers left because it became too cold. There is some evidence and
speculation that they sailed south and discovered the rest of North
America, but nothing concrete. However, there is some archeological
evidence they may have gone to Newfoundland. Dr. Helge Ingstad and
his wife Anne Stine Ingstad discovered the remains of an 11th-Century
Norse community at L'anse Aux Meadows on the northern peninsula of
Newfoundland. They were working from a 16th-Century Icelandic map
showing part of North America.

>
>That simply doesn't make sense. What is the source of this, Steve?
>

Unfortunately, I cannot find the source now. On my Google Home Page,
I have a "This Day In History" box and it points to various sources
including The Free Dictionary. However, I cannot seem to get back to
that page where I derived the description. Wikipedia has a similar
description at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel_Tasman

>If he found the NW coast of the South Island, he was already in NZ. He
>couldn't sail East from there unless he went through Cook Strait and if my
>memory of school history serves correctly, he didn't do that. (Had he done
>so and sailed East, he would have been leaving NZ.)
>

Well seeing as how Able thought he was near Argentina, I could see
where he might sail around in an obtuse manner for a time.

>
>Golden Bay is on the NW coast of the South Island and not nine days sailing
>away from there. His ship was called "Zeehaen" (Sea Hen) so that makes
>sense. I remember learning about the Maori canoe (waka) attack and him
>losing some men (they killed several Maori as well).
>
>Here's a link to Golden Bay: http://www.goldenbay.net.nz/en/guide.html
>
>It is famous here for cement production.
>
>
>
>(Not to mention the Tasman Sea :-))
>
>
>Thanks again for the thought, Steve :-)
>
>The weather here has deteriorated a bit today (after a w

of mainly
>sunshine in the Bay of Plenty) so a cold one isn't such an appetizing option
>as it would normally be, but I'll raise a JD to you and thank you for your
>kind thought.
>
>Cheers!
>
>Pete.
>

Enjoy your day and your house guest and have some hot tea with a
little lemon and your finest whiskey if the weather is not conducive
to a "cold one" :)

Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-

"Bart, a woman is like a beer. They look good,
they smell good, and you'd step over your own
mother just to get one."
---Homer Simpson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remove nospam to email me.

Steve

HeyBub

2007-12-19, 6:56 pm

SkippyPB wrote:
>
> Those pesky Vikings! They are also credited with discovering North
> America long before Christopher Columbus landed here. In fact there
> is plenty of historical evidence that Eric the Red landed in Greenland
> in 982 AD. He was outlawed from Iceland and exiled to a great land to
> the north. Eric spent three years exploring the country where he and
> his men marked sites for their future farms. He called it Greenland
> and sailed with 25 ships to settle there. But in the 1400s, the
> settlers left because it became too cold. There is some evidence and
> speculation that they sailed south and discovered the rest of North
> America, but nothing concrete. However, there is some archeological
> evidence they may have gone to Newfoundland. Dr. Helge Ingstad and
> his wife Anne Stine Ingstad discovered the remains of an 11th-Century
> Norse community at L'anse Aux Meadows on the northern peninsula of
> Newfoundland. They were working from a 16th-Century Icelandic map
> showing part of North America.
>

That was during the last "global warming" period. Then it got cold again and
nobody left the house for a few hundred years.

Pete Dashwood

2007-12-19, 6:56 pm

"billious" <billious_1954@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47687182$0$22418$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.com...
>
> "Pete Dashwood" <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:5sqqusF1a9fjsU1@mid.individual.net...
> [sn]
> it was left to Captain James Cook to circumnavigate and properly map
> [sn]
> Cheers!
> So that'd be North Island, South Island and er, "West Island" no doubt? :)
>
>
West Island is sometimes called "Australia"... :-)

No, the third island is Stewart Island, located just South of the South
Island, across Foveaux Strait.

Actually. NZ adminsters and/or is responsible for, or has a "special
relationship" with, quite a large number of islands, many of which are just
rocks in the Southern Ocean (Disappointment Island, the Antipodes Islands,
http://www.fotw.us/flags/nz-.html#lesser etc.).

I have never been to Stewart Island, although it is on my list of places to
go... there is a permanent population of around 600 people, and I understand
the oysters make it worth the trip...:-)

Pete.
--
"I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."

donald tees

2007-12-20, 9:56 pm

SkippyPB wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:04:27 +1300, "Pete Dashwood"
> <dashwood@removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> Those pesky Vikings! They are also credited with discovering North
> America long before Christopher Columbus landed here. In fact there
> is plenty of historical evidence that Eric the Red landed in Greenland
> in 982 AD. He was outlawed from Iceland and exiled to a great land to
> the north. Eric spent three years exploring the country where he and
> his men marked sites for their future farms. He called it Greenland
> and sailed with 25 ships to settle there. But in the 1400s, the
> settlers left because it became too cold. There is some evidence and
> speculation that they sailed south and discovered the rest of North
> America, but nothing concrete. However, there is some archeological
> evidence they may have gone to Newfoundland. Dr. Helge Ingstad and
> his wife Anne Stine Ingstad discovered the remains of an 11th-Century
> Norse community at L'anse Aux Meadows on the northern peninsula of
> Newfoundland. They were working from a 16th-Century Icelandic map
> showing part of North America.
>
Newfoundland is another island that was eventually mapped by James Cook.
Now *there* was a fellow that really got around.

Donald

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