Home > Archive > Cobol > April 2006 > Re: US Presidents; an outside view WAS: Any comments? (Evolution - was Answers to P
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
Re: US Presidents; an outside view WAS: Any comments? (Evolution - was Answers to P
|
|
| Pete Dashwood 2006-04-25, 6:55 pm |
|
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:kukp425qg92om210b89faanig3fo88un4q@
4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 13:59:11 +1200, "Pete Dashwood"
> <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> The entire Universe could very well be a zero sum game, although that
> hasn't been tested out over the life of the universe.
>
> But our money system isn't concerned with the entire universe. In
> our subset of the universe, we create added value to such an extent
> that we have more stuff.
Added value is an illusion.
If I change your perception to believe that something is more useful than
you thought it was, I have added value to it. (At least, as far a syou're
concerned :-))
If I actually add functionality to something, I consume resurces in order to
do it.
Zero Sum.
Pete.
| |
|
| In article <4b5a4tFuut7uU1@individual.net>,
Pete Dashwood <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
> news:kukp425qg92om210b89faanig3fo88un4q@
4ax.com...
[snip]
>
>Added value is an illusion.
Perhaps, Mr Dashwood, no more and no less than any other kind of 'value'
might be.
>
>If I change your perception to believe that something is more useful than
>you thought it was, I have added value to it. (At least, as far a syou're
>concerned :-))
>
'Useful' may be as much of a matter of interpretation as 'value', Mr
Dashwood... and it might be possible to add a new interpretation.
>If I actually add functionality to something, I consume resurces in order to
>do it.
>
>Zero Sum.
Eh? Leaving aside how 'functionality' may be, as well, a matter of
interpretation... how does adding it consume as much resources as the
benefit gained, rendering it zero sum?
Consider the use of a stick as a crutch in order to keep weight off a
twisted ankle so that a hunter might heal and be able to supply the tribe
with food. Being able to see a stick in this manner adds value to it and
makes it useful to both the individual and the society; are you saying
that the first person who saw that this could be done consumed enough
resources to use up any gain this added function has ever given the
species?
DD
| |
| Pete Dashwood 2006-04-27, 7:55 am |
|
<docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:e2kpfq$irg$1@reader1.panix.com...
> In article <4b5a4tFuut7uU1@individual.net>,
> Pete Dashwood <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Perhaps, Mr Dashwood, no more and no less than any other kind of 'value'
> might be.
>
>
> 'Useful' may be as much of a matter of interpretation as 'value', Mr
> Dashwood... and it might be possible to add a new interpretation.
I don't doubt it.
>
>
> Eh? Leaving aside how 'functionality' may be, as well, a matter of
> interpretation... how does adding it consume as much resources as the
> benefit gained, rendering it zero sum?
The same way as vaporising steel leaves exactly as many iron atoms as you
started with, just in a different ocncentration.
>
> Consider the use of a stick as a crutch in order to keep weight off a
> twisted ankle so that a hunter might heal and be able to supply the tribe
> with food. Being able to see a stick in this manner adds value to it and
> makes it useful to both the individual and the society; are you saying
> that the first person who saw that this could be done consumed enough
> resources to use up any gain this added function has ever given the
> species?
>
No. I am saying that the visibility or otherwise of the stick adds no
intrinsic value to it. Value is added by the Hunter, who processed light
waves form the stick in order to do so, thus burning calories and adding to
the heat entropy of the Universe. With his added value stick he is then able
to hunt and supply more energy to his brain so he can think and add more
value to his perception of other things and so the calories are consumed and
the entropy rises and ....
Zero sum.
Pete.
| |
|
| In article <4bblsdF10g5caU1@individual.net>,
Pete Dashwood <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
><docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:e2kpfq$irg$1@reader1.panix.com...
[snip]
[color=darkred]
>No. I am saying that the visibility or otherwise of the stick adds no
>intrinsic value to it.
Ummmmm... there seems to be a shift here from 'value' to 'intrinsic
value'. I am using 'value' according to http://www.m-w.com/value, 3:
relative worth, utility, or importance. In that it is, by definition,
relative, then intrinsic - http://www.m-w.com/intrinsic, 1 - would not
appear to be applicable in that it requires an isolation of an object from
its surroundings.
(whether such an isolation is possible or is, intrinsically, merely the
shifting from one environment to another might be a topic for a doctoral
dissertation)
>Value is added by the Hunter, who processed light
>waves form the stick in order to do so, thus burning calories and adding to
>the heat entropy of the Universe.
I disagree; increased value - in this case utility - is added by the
person who invents (devises by thinking) the use of a stick as a crutch;
this person may or may not be the hunter.
>With his added value stick he is then able
>to hunt and supply more energy to his brain so he can think and add more
>value to his perception of other things and so the calories are consumed and
>the entropy rises and ....
>
>Zero sum.
Ummmmmm... leaving aside this shift back again, from 'intrinsic value' to
'value to his perception of other things'... it might be that the hunter's
brain's is not the only one changed, as others of the group eat what he is
able to bring in.
DD
|
|
|
|
|