Cobol - VisualAge PL/I and COBOL - withdrawn from marketing

Author

VisualAge PL/I and COBOL - withdrawn from marketing

William M. Klein

2006-02-15, 3:55 am

(cross-posted to the COBOL and the PL/I groups)

See:

_ 906029 Software withdrawal: VisualAge COBOL for Windows NT, V3.0 and VisualAge
PL/I V2.1 -- Replacement available
http://www.ibm.com/isource/cgi-bin/...nred&on=906-029

Including the information

"Replacement product information ...
The follow-on product for VisualAge COBOL V3.0 and VisualAge PL/I Enterprise
V2.1 is WebSphere Developer for zSeries. It provides a COBOL and PL/I
environment, including Windows and remote z/OS connected support for compilers,
run-time, and debugger. WebSphere Developer for zSeries also provides other
functions supporting both traditional batch, CICS, IMS, as well as composite
applications, including support for Web development, Web Services, and XML
development. For more information on WebSphere Developer for zSeries, refer to
Software Announcement 205-304 , dated November 22, 2005"

--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com

Colin Campbell

2006-02-15, 6:55 pm

William M. Klein wrote:

>(cross-posted to the COBOL and the PL/I groups)
>
>See:
>
>_ 906029 Software withdrawal: VisualAge COBOL for Windows NT, V3.0 and VisualAge
>PL/I V2.1 -- Replacement available
> http://www.ibm.com/isource/cgi-bin/...nred&on=906-029
>
>Including the information
>
>"Replacement product information ...
> The follow-on product for VisualAge COBOL V3.0 and VisualAge PL/I Enterprise
>V2.1 is WebSphere Developer for zSeries. It provides a COBOL and PL/I
>environment, including Windows and remote z/OS connected support for compilers,
>run-time, and debugger. WebSphere Developer for zSeries also provides other
>functions supporting both traditional batch, CICS, IMS, as well as composite
>applications, including support for Web development, Web Services, and XML
>development. For more information on WebSphere Developer for zSeries, refer to
>Software Announcement 205-304 , dated November 22, 2005"
>
>
>
I skimmed the two announcements, and it seems that WebSphere Developer
for zSeries uses the mainframe COBOL or PL/1 compiler (not a compiler
installed on a workstation) to compile programs written for the
workstation. Is that your understanding, also?

If I'm correct, it seems like a pretty expensive way to write PC-based
software -- lease a multi-million dollar mainframe, license a mainframe
software package (at a probable annual cost of several thousand
dollars), and buy a thousand dollar or less PC to run the generated
object code.

Tom Lake

2006-02-15, 6:55 pm

> I skimmed the two announcements, and it seems that WebSphere Developer for zSeries
> uses the mainframe COBOL or PL/1 compiler (not a compiler installed on a
> workstation) to compile programs written for the workstation. Is that your
> understanding, also?
>
> If I'm correct, it seems like a pretty expensive way to write PC-based software --
> lease a multi-million dollar mainframe, license a mainframe software package (at a
> probable annual cost of several thousand dollars), and buy a thousand dollar or
> less PC to run the generated object code.

To me it looks like you can compile, link and run under Windows or
cross-compile under Windows to run on the Z-System. At least
that's what I HOPE it will do!

Tom Lake

William M. Klein

2006-02-15, 6:55 pm

(still cross posted)

First WebSphere Developer for zSeries supports both "local" and "remote"
compiling (and testing) of COBOL and PL/I code. (I believe - but won't swear to
it, that it ONLY supports "remote" HLASM - which MAY make "local" testing of
some applications difficult).

Now, let me state my inferences (whether or not it was IBM's intention to imply
these) from the announcement and replacement product description.

1) IBM no longer sees sufficient "business" rationale to provide a Windows
TARGETED COBOL or PL/I product, i.e. a product intended to produce object code
which will run "in production" under Windows (much less OS/2). They do still
provide AIX compilers (and they have not rejected SHARE requirements for Linux -
but don't currently provide such). This certainly has been the direction that I
have perceived them moving for years, but I think this "replacement" product
announcement places the final "nail in the coffin" of IBM supporting Windows
production COBOL or PL/I.

2) Given the cost of the "replacement" product (and the costs for larger
quantities of the product, i.e. 10+, 100+, whatever number of "seats"), I
believe that IBM is (more or less) admitting that they are only selling such
products to "Enterprise" customers. Having followed both IBM and non-IBM
"commercial" PL/I and COBOL compilers, I can easily understand (whether I agree
with it or not) the conclusion that there is insufficient business demand for
"personal" (individual) Windows COBOL or PL/I compilers. Such demand does
exist, just not sufficient to justify in IBM's mind (as I read it) that *THEY*
produce such products.

***

I would certainly be happy to see IBM soon (or eventually) offer
- individual (reasonably priced) licensees (without such features as IMS and
CICS emulations)
and/or
- Windows production targeted

COBOL and/or PL/I compilers.

However, I certainly won't hold my breath until this DOES happen.

--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
"Colin Campbell" <cmcampb@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:za6dnR_ffZq7-m7eRVn-gw@adelphia.com...
> William M. Klein wrote:
>
> I skimmed the two announcements, and it seems that WebSphere Developer for
> zSeries uses the mainframe COBOL or PL/1 compiler (not a compiler installed on
> a workstation) to compile programs written for the workstation. Is that your
> understanding, also?
>
> If I'm correct, it seems like a pretty expensive way to write PC-based
> software -- lease a multi-million dollar mainframe, license a mainframe
> software package (at a probable annual cost of several thousand dollars), and
> buy a thousand dollar or less PC to run the generated object code.

Colin Campbell

2006-02-15, 6:55 pm

Tom Lake wrote:

>
>To me it looks like you can compile, link and run under Windows or
>cross-compile under Windows to run on the Z-System. At least
>that's what I HOPE it will do!
>
>Tom Lake
>
>
>
>
Tom,
So, you think that there is still a Windows-based COBOL and PL/1
compiler, is that right? (I wonder if the COBOL compiler is updated at
all from what is in VA COBOL 3.1.)

I looked somewhat harder at the announcement, but didn't see that
detailed. Still, it ought to be true. The shop where I worked before
retiring used VA COBOL to redevelop apps which ran on the PC. (The
original apps were developed using MicroFocus COBOL.) We would also do
some source code conversion and restructuring using the CCCA and CSF
tools that were packaged in VA COBOL, until we installed the Debug Tool
Toolkit, which gave us CCCA on the mainframe.

While the cross-platform capabilities would be important at some shops,
we didn't make much use of them, because we had a powerful mainframe
development environment.

I wonder what it costs....
Colin

Frank Swarbrick

2006-02-15, 6:55 pm

Tom Lake<tom_lake@srmtenv.org> 02/15/06 1:05 PM >>>
for zSeries[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
your[color=darkred]
software --[color=darkred]
package (at a[color=darkred]
dollar or[color=darkred]
>
>To me it looks like you can compile, link and run under Windows or
>cross-compile under Windows to run on the Z-System. At least
>that's what I HOPE it will do!

That sounds more like it. I would certainly be curious to here from anyone
who has actually used this (or even VisualAge COBOL) to develop mainframe
programs on a PC.

Not that it would ever be available for VSE, but one can dream...

---
Frank Swarbrick
Senior Developer/Analyst - Mainframe Applications
FirstBank Data Corporation - Lakewood, CO USA

Mark Yudkin

2006-02-17, 3:55 am

I think you've misunderstood the announcement letter. That letter ONLY
discusses the mainframe products, and these have indeed been replaced by
WebSphere-branded products. The Workstation products have not been replaced
as such - my understanding from the lab is that FP14 is due quite soon,
although there has been a rebranding.

"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:JwyIf.52008$Ak4.4474@fe09.news.easynews.com...
> (cross-posted to the COBOL and the PL/I groups)
>
> See:
>
> _ 906029 Software withdrawal: VisualAge COBOL for Windows NT, V3.0 and
> VisualAge PL/I V2.1 -- Replacement available
> http://www.ibm.com/isource/cgi-bin/...nred&on=906-029
>
> Including the information
>
> "Replacement product information ...
> The follow-on product for VisualAge COBOL V3.0 and VisualAge PL/I
> Enterprise V2.1 is WebSphere Developer for zSeries. It provides a COBOL
> and PL/I environment, including Windows and remote z/OS connected support
> for compilers, run-time, and debugger. WebSphere Developer for zSeries
> also provides other functions supporting both traditional batch, CICS,
> IMS, as well as composite applications, including support for Web
> development, Web Services, and XML development. For more information on
> WebSphere Developer for zSeries, refer to Software Announcement 205-304 ,
> dated November 22, 2005"
>
> --
> Bill Klein
> wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
>

Mark Yudkin

2006-02-17, 3:55 am

I see what's thrown you:

"IBM WebSphere® Studio Enterprise Developer gives you an interactive
workstation-based environment where you can develop and enhance PL/I
applications locally or remotely. PL/I for Windows® is an integral part of
the development environment delivered with WebSphere Studio Enterprise
Developer."

This is not a withdrawal of the workstation product, but an indication of
the bundling of the workstation compiler in the zOS version of Websphere. If
you review the full WebSphere Studio Enterprise Developer web site, you'll
see why this is being done.

Recall too that host compiler owners already had an amazingly good deal for
the workstation compiler when used for cross-development.

"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:JwyIf.52008$Ak4.4474@fe09.news.easynews.com...
> (cross-posted to the COBOL and the PL/I groups)
>
> See:
>
> _ 906029 Software withdrawal: VisualAge COBOL for Windows NT, V3.0 and
> VisualAge PL/I V2.1 -- Replacement available
> http://www.ibm.com/isource/cgi-bin/...nred&on=906-029
>
> Including the information
>
> "Replacement product information ...
> The follow-on product for VisualAge COBOL V3.0 and VisualAge PL/I
> Enterprise V2.1 is WebSphere Developer for zSeries. It provides a COBOL
> and PL/I environment, including Windows and remote z/OS connected support
> for compilers, run-time, and debugger. WebSphere Developer for zSeries
> also provides other functions supporting both traditional batch, CICS,
> IMS, as well as composite applications, including support for Web
> development, Web Services, and XML development. For more information on
> WebSphere Developer for zSeries, refer to Software Announcement 205-304 ,
> dated November 22, 2005"
>
> --
> Bill Klein
> wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
>

Tim C.

2006-02-17, 3:55 am

Following up to "Mark Yudkin" <myudkinATcompuserveDOTcom@boingboing.org> :
[color=darkred]
>_ 906029 Software withdrawal: VisualAge COBOL for Windows NT, V3.0 and

The bit that make me think it applies to the Windows compilers is the
"....for Windows NT ...". It is clear it applies to COBOL, but unclear that
it applies to the PLI
--
Tim C.

William M. Klein

2006-02-27, 6:55 pm

(re-cross posted to both the COBOL and PL/I groups),

I just thought that I would post an update. Given the responses and feedback
from these newsgroups, my "personal" sources within IBM are trying to firm up
(and clarify) the actual current (and near future) position on COBOL, PL/I, WDz,
and "personal purchased compilers".

Given the fact that SHARE is coming up quickly, it wouldn't surprise me if I do
NOT receive an answer immediately, but I did think I should update others that
this is being looked at internally within IBM.

"watch this space for further updates"

--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:JwyIf.52008$Ak4.4474@fe09.news.easynews.com...
> (cross-posted to the COBOL and the PL/I groups)
>
> See:
>
> _ 906029 Software withdrawal: VisualAge COBOL for Windows NT, V3.0 and
> VisualAge PL/I V2.1 -- Replacement available
> http://www.ibm.com/isource/cgi-bin/...nred&on=906-029
>
> Including the information
>
> "Replacement product information ...
> The follow-on product for VisualAge COBOL V3.0 and VisualAge PL/I
> Enterprise V2.1 is WebSphere Developer for zSeries. It provides a COBOL and
> PL/I environment, including Windows and remote z/OS connected support for
> compilers, run-time, and debugger. WebSphere Developer for zSeries also
> provides other functions supporting both traditional batch, CICS, IMS, as well
> as composite applications, including support for Web development, Web
> Services, and XML development. For more information on WebSphere Developer for
> zSeries, refer to Software Announcement 205-304 , dated November 22, 2005"
>
> --
> Bill Klein
> wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
>

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