Cobol - OT - in serach of Hardware recommendation

Author

OT - in serach of Hardware recommendation

William M. Klein

2006-09-12, 9:55 pm

After several years of NOT traveling with a PC, I am *thinking* about getting a
Laptop/Notebook. I was wondering if those who post to this newsgroup have
recommendations.

My PRIMARY issue is that it MUST have a 17in (or larger) built-in screen.
(Having an easy way to plug in an external monitor is also a "nice-to-have")

I do NOT plan on using it for "interactive games" or similar graphic-intensive
software.

I will use it under Microsoft Windows XP (professional) and will update to Vista
when available. I'll also be using Microsoft Office Professional. I will
probably run either Micro Focus and/or Fujitsu COBOL products.

I need to have Wi-Fi access (but don't really know what that means <G> ). I'll be
using it for both email and internet access.

I do NOT think that I need Linux (dual-boot) but I might want to add that
"someday".

***

I have looked at both the Dell and Gateway sites and gone thru their "design it
yourself" systems, but I don't really know enough to make intelligent choices.
I have looked at CNET and a couple other "review" sites and don't get much help
from that either.

***

I know that this is a "personal" as paragraphs vs sections or other
long-standing disputes, but I thought some of you might be able to get me on the
right track. Price is NOT a primary concern, but (of course) the cheaper the
better - provided the quality is good.

--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com

James J. Gavan

2006-09-13, 3:55 am

William M. Klein wrote:
>
> I need to have Wi-Fi access (but don't really know what that means <G> ). I'll be
> using it for both email and internet access.

Well that's honest and I haven't got a bloody clue either !
>
> I do NOT think that I need Linux (dual-boot) but I might want to add that
> "someday".
>
Know nothing of Linux, but if you contemplate you *might* just one day
want to go that route, then the impression I get is that you will be
better off with your disk initially partitioned for Windows and an empty
Linux slot - then if you load Linux you haven't got the aggravation of
moving stuff around. But let the Linux experts give you details.

>
> I have looked at both the Dell and Gateway sites and gone thru their "design it
> yourself" systems, but I don't really know enough to make intelligent choices.
> I have looked at CNET and a couple other "review" sites and don't get much help
> from that either.
>
I see the problem where you get presented with a menu of options and at
the end you are still not sure if you have made the right package
decision. Some of course recommend the Dell/Gateway approach and confirm
you get good service. However my approach on switching from Win 98 to
Win XP was to go to a local computer chain. There the initial appeal is
that you can buy "package x" for $y - until you start adding on the
extras. But at least you can specify a 'minimum' and quiz why they are
suggesting extras. (IMPORTANT - watch for the flyers and hit the stores
when they are doing a sales promotion - that can save you quite a few
bucks).

(The only downside I had, as it was part of the package, was el cheapo
Lexmark, (All-in-One, print, scan, fax), which with a mailed-in rebate
came out at $100. However the way those damn things eat up the cartridge
ink - economically I'd probably have been better off getting an upgrade
CD for my HP 'All-in-one' printer). Still - don't think you are likely
to be doing much printing are you ?

Your screen viewing requirements - seems to me physically visiting a
store they will appreciate your problem and offer a sensible and
sympathetic approach.

Jimmy

Frederico Fonseca

2006-09-13, 3:55 am

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:14:28 GMT, "William M. Klein"
<wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote:

>After several years of NOT traveling with a PC, I am *thinking* about getting a
>Laptop/Notebook. I was wondering if those who post to this newsgroup have
>recommendations.
>
>My PRIMARY issue is that it MUST have a 17in (or larger) built-in screen.
>(Having an easy way to plug in an external monitor is also a "nice-to-have")
>
>I do NOT plan on using it for "interactive games" or similar graphic-intensive
>software.
>
>I will use it under Microsoft Windows XP (professional) and will update to Vista
>when available. I'll also be using Microsoft Office Professional. I will
>probably run either Micro Focus and/or Fujitsu COBOL products.
>
>I need to have Wi-Fi access (but don't really know what that means <G> ). I'll be
>using it for both email and internet access.
>
>I do NOT think that I need Linux (dual-boot) but I might want to add that
>"someday".
>
> ***
>
>I have looked at both the Dell and Gateway sites and gone thru their "design it
>yourself" systems, but I don't really know enough to make intelligent choices.
>I have looked at CNET and a couple other "review" sites and don't get much help
>from that either.
>
>***
>
>I know that this is a "personal" as paragraphs vs sections or other
>long-standing disputes, but I thought some of you might be able to get me on the
>right track. Price is NOT a primary concern, but (of course) the cheaper the
>better - provided the quality is good.
Look at Acers also (www.acer.com).

Some very good models, and prices arent that bad.
UK models and prices
http://www.acer.co.uk/acereuro/wr-r...2/Notebooks.pdf

Later on (8 hours from now) I will recommend specific models.

HP/COMPAQ are another option to consider.

Frederico Fonseca
ema il: frederico_fonseca at syssoft-int.com

Robert Jones

2006-09-13, 7:55 am

message snipped

I don't claim to know all there is about buying notebooks, etc, but
would make the following suggestions:

Get a good size hard disk and a GB of Ram when you buy as they are very
expensive to upgrade later, unlike desktop PCs. If you will still have
a desktop computer as well, then the size of hard disk is not so
important and a USB external hard disk is another option if more
capacity is needed later. 4 USB ports are required. Options to use
an external monitor and keyboard are fairly standard, I think, but
should be checked. An internal modem, networking card/connection and
WIFI capability are all desirable. An infrared port/facility for
connecting to printers, etc may be helpful. A DVD rewriter may be a
requirement.

If you have a local expert shop or several, ask them for advice and
consider buying from them, they might provide much better after sales
service, though would probably be a bit more expensive. I am not
saying you should buy from them, mail order is much cheaper, etc, but
they may not be as expensive as you might think.

I know you have vision trouble, but many PC magazine run informative
articles on subjects such as minimum buying requirements and guides to
new (and older) technology. Perhaps a friend could recommend articles
worth investigating further from magazines available in the US.
Computer Shopper in the UK seems very good and relatively inexpensive,
as are several others. You can log into their website at

http://www.computershopper.co.uk/rj...front_flash.php

It's quite likely that magazines in the US also have websites.

"WiFi" is "Wireless Fidelity" a technique for cable free connection
around the home, office and near internet cafes, hotels, etc. You
probably already know that much! What you should be very careful about
is getting its security set up properly, otherwise it leaves you open
to roaming nearby hackers. There is quite likely to be a google group
on the subject that may have an FAQ.

Try or insist on getting the supplier to guarantee in writing that the
PC will run the software you require and will be upgradeable to Vista
when it appears.

Robert

Donald Tees

2006-09-13, 7:55 am

James J. Gavan wrote:
> William M. Klein wrote:
>
> Well that's honest and I haven't got a bloody clue either !
> Know nothing of Linux, but if you contemplate you *might* just one day
> want to go that route, then the impression I get is that you will be
> better off with your disk initially partitioned for Windows and an empty
> Linux slot - then if you load Linux you haven't got the aggravation of
> moving stuff around. But let the Linux experts give you details.
>
If XP is installed, and there is room on the disk (either an unused
partition, or enough space on an existing partition), Linux will install
and set up dual boot. The opposite is not true. If Linux is installed,
and you attempt to install XP, it will wipe out the Linux first. I'd
recomend doing a disk reorganization first if there is no available
partition, but I am told it is not required ...

I currently have win98, XP and Linux set up on one computer as a triple
boot. Win98 installed first, then XP, then Linux. All three work fine.

The win systems cannot see any partitions but their own, Linux reads and
writes all three, and is used to backup both the MS systems.

Donald

HeyBub

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

William M. Klein wrote:
> After several years of NOT traveling with a PC, I am *thinking* about
> getting a Laptop/Notebook. I was wondering if those who post to this
> newsgroup have recommendations.
>
> My PRIMARY issue is that it MUST have a 17in (or larger) built-in
> screen. (Having an easy way to plug in an external monitor is also a
> "nice-to-have")
> I do NOT plan on using it for "interactive games" or similar
> graphic-intensive software.
>
> I will use it under Microsoft Windows XP (professional) and will
> update to Vista when available. I'll also be using Microsoft Office
> Professional. I will probably run either Micro Focus and/or Fujitsu
> COBOL products.
> I need to have Wi-Fi access (but don't really know what that means
> <G> ). I'll be using it for both email and internet access.
>
> I do NOT think that I need Linux (dual-boot) but I might want to add
> that "someday".
>
> ***
>
> I have looked at both the Dell and Gateway sites and gone thru their
> "design it yourself" systems, but I don't really know enough to make
> intelligent choices. I have looked at CNET and a couple other
> "review" sites and don't get much help from that either.
>
> ***
>
> I know that this is a "personal" as paragraphs vs sections or other
> long-standing disputes, but I thought some of you might be able to
> get me on the right track. Price is NOT a primary concern, but (of
> course) the cheaper the better - provided the quality is good.

I hang out on the microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (server =
msnews.microsoft.com) and here are some horrible things to avoid:

1. DO NOT depend on Dell or any other manufacturer to supply you with a
usable operating system. They save less than a dollar by putting a hidden
"Restore" partition on your hard drive which is USELESS when the computer
croaks. Get the PC and OS separately.

2. Your PC may come -- it they insist on supplying it with an OS -- bundled
with TONS of crapware. Some of which (AOL and Norton AV) are so difficult to
remove that they are known as the barnacles of the software world. First
thing when you get your machine is to wipe the sonofabitch and do a clean
install. In other words, an installed OS plus a retail version in the box is
not sufficient: you should install the retail version.

3. You may consider a laptop with a docking station capability. The docking
station enables you to add stuff that may not be possible on a mere laptop
(additonal hard drives, DVD drive, sooper-dooper graphics cards, etc.),
although this necessity is getting rarer as components get smaller and the
manufacturers manage to stuff them into laptops.

4. Quality varies from w

-to-w

. Dell and Gateway buy their components
as commodities contrasted with Sony and Fijutsu who manufacture (mostly)
from the ground up. It's a crap-shoot (witness some airlines refusing to
allow some laptops (Gateway, Apple, Dell?) onboard out of fear of fire from
the defective batteries).

5. If you're upgrading to Vista, the larger screen, with the wider
configuration will be a hoot. Vista makes use of the extra screen real
estate to display more things than you're used to seeing.

6. The only thing we use our laptops for is to carry demos to a client site
or trade show. We certainly don't depend on them for production work. Flakey
bastards, one and all.

Michael Wojcik

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

In article <UXINg.233355$Df2.177978@fe05.news.easynews.com>, "William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> writes:
> After several years of NOT traveling with a PC, I am *thinking* about getting a
> Laptop/Notebook. I was wondering if those who post to this newsgroup have
> recommendations.

I've been happy with my Thinkpads, and they have generally been more
reliable than the competing brands I come into close contact with
(including various Apple models, which have cost me a small fortune
in repairs). But now that IBM has sold the brand to Lenovo, it's
difficult to say whether the quality will remain as high. Thus far
I've been pleased with Lenovo support, but I've only used it for
downloading drivers and other system-specific software and technical
documentation.

> My PRIMARY issue is that it MUST have a 17in (or larger) built-in screen.

It doesn't look like any of the current Thinkpad models have a screen
close to 17", unfortunately. I see Dell has some models with 17" and
21" screens, but I've never liked Dell machines. I've used several,
and they've all had annoying design defects.

> (Having an easy way to plug in an external monitor is also a "nice-to-have")

I haven't seen a laptop *without* this capability for several years.

> I do NOT plan on using it for "interactive games" or similar graphic-intensive
> software.
>
> I will use it under Microsoft Windows XP (professional) and will update to Vista
> when available.

Vista is as demanding as most games - certainly for graphics. So
that requirement renders the no-games plan moot.

> I need to have Wi-Fi access (but don't really know what that means <G> ).

Again, pretty much all contemporary laptops have built-in wireless
networking. They don't all have the latest and greatest, but
frankly the older standards are fine for most purposes.

> I do NOT think that I need Linux (dual-boot) but I might want to add that
> "someday".

It's easier to just run VMWare or Virtual PC under Windows and put
Linux on a virtual machine. No worries about getting quality drivers
for your physical hardware, plus you can use both OSes at once. (You
can also boot Linux natively and run Windows in a virtual machine,
but that requires more setup, since the system will come with Windows
preloaded.) There are free versions of both VMWare and VPC.

--
Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@microfocus.com

Unlikely prediction o' the day:
Eventually, every programmer will have to write a Java or distributed
object program.
-- Orfali and Harkey, _Client / Server Programming with Java and CORBA_

Alistair

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

HeyBub wrote:
>
> 1. DO NOT depend on Dell or any other manufacturer to supply you with a
> usable operating system. They save less than a dollar by putting a hidden
> "Restore" partition on your hard drive which is USELESS when the computer
> croaks. Get the PC and OS separately.

A friend (not the boozy chum) has been saved many times by the hidden
restore partition when his kids have trashed his machine.

>
> 2. Your PC may come -- it they insist on supplying it with an OS -- bundled
> with TONS of crapware. Some of which (AOL and Norton AV) are so difficult to
> remove that they are known as the barnacles of the software world. First
> thing when you get your machine is to wipe the sonofabitch and do a clean
> install. In other words, an installed OS plus a retail version in the box is
> not sufficient: you should install the retail version.
>

You are legally able to buy machines without the OS pre-installed. When
shipped they probably do have WinXP but where you stand legally if you
use it is anyones guess.

One problem with doing a clean install (or a restore from the hidden
partition) is that you can end up losing vital software. Another
non-boozy chum restored after his kid trashed his store-bought laptop
and lost his wireless software. The pc won't communicate remotely by
wi-fi as he had originally intended. So make sure you have install
disks for all software before wiping the disk.

> 3. You may consider a laptop with a docking station capability. The docking
> station enables you to add stuff that may not be possible on a mere laptop
> (additonal hard drives, DVD drive, sooper-dooper graphics cards, etc.),
> although this necessity is getting rarer as components get smaller and the
> manufacturers manage to stuff them into laptops.

Docking stations can be more trouble than they are worth. A colleague
was unable to get his laptop to work with a series of docking stations.
However, the next laptop he got worked perfectly.

>
> 4. Quality varies from w

-to-w

. Dell and Gateway buy their components
> as commodities contrasted with Sony and Fijutsu who manufacture (mostly)
> from the ground up. It's a crap-shoot (witness some airlines refusing to
> allow some laptops (Gateway, Apple, Dell?) onboard out of fear of fire from
> the defective batteries).

When ordering Dell it helps to speak Urdu/Punjabi/Gujarati, etc. Also,
if you have no credit record worth a jot, or are over 60 years old,
then a refusal to give credit may well offend.

Make sure you have a good gig of ram and at least 80 gigs of HD ram.
Generally, although you probably only need 256 MB ram and 40MB HD, the
better spec-ed a machine is then the longer it will stay current and
likely to meet your future changing requirements.

Have you considered a tablet pc? They have pen input as well as mouse
and keyboard.

Howard Brazee

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:06:48 -0500, "HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com>
wrote:

>3. You may consider a laptop with a docking station capability. The docking
>station enables you to add stuff that may not be possible on a mere laptop
>(additonal hard drives, DVD drive, sooper-dooper graphics cards, etc.),
>although this necessity is getting rarer as components get smaller and the
>manufacturers manage to stuff them into laptops.

There are two common monitor shapes - I recommend that if you have
want a big monitor attached to your docking station, make it the same
shape as your lap top's monitor.

>4. Quality varies from w

-to-w

Howard Brazee

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

On 13 Sep 2006 15:39:22 GMT, mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik)
wrote:

>
>It doesn't look like any of the current Thinkpad models have a screen
>close to 17", unfortunately. I see Dell has some models with 17" and
>21" screens, but I've never liked Dell machines. I've used several,
>and they've all had annoying design defects.

I saw an expensive laptop with its hinge doubling as an external
handle. It may be this one:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Dell_XPS_M2...-2.html?tag=nav
They tested with a model which cost close to 5 grand.

I've always thought the hinge should be a handle. I also think the
laptop should have a compartment for a real mouse. There is a large
population of people who have small lap tops, in a suitcase with all
of its accessories. That kind of spoils the advantage of being
small.

Howard Brazee

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

On 13 Sep 2006 15:39:22 GMT, mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik)
wrote:

>
>Again, pretty much all contemporary laptops have built-in wireless
>networking. They don't all have the latest and greatest, but
>frankly the older standards are fine for most purposes.

One thing here - built in wireless modems are convenient, but if you
need more power, you still have to get a plug-in replacement. It
might be worth considering starting off with the more powerful plug-in
modem.

Frank Swarbrick

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

James J. Gavan<jgavandeletethis@shaw.ca> 09/12/06 11:53 PM >>>
>William M. Klein wrote:
[color=darkred]
>Know nothing of Linux, but if you contemplate you *might* just one day
>want to go that route, then the impression I get is that you will be
>better off with your disk initially partitioned for Windows and an empty
>Linux slot - then if you load Linux you haven't got the aggravation of
>moving stuff around. But let the Linux experts give you details.

I would have agreed with this until recently. On the recommendation of
someone here I have been running (the no-chage product) VMWare Server on my
Windows XP Professional machine, and then running SUSE Linux 10.1 under it.
Doing it this way does not require actual special "Linux" partitioning of
the hard drive. Instead VMWare creates a 'virtual' hard drive on your real
hard drive and formats that. The virtual hard drive is just a huge file.
The Linux VM guest can format it however it wants. Pretty

stuff, I
must say!

Frank

---
Frank Swarbrick
Senior Developer/Analyst - Mainframe Applications
FirstBank Data Corporation - Lakewood, CO USA

HeyBub

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

Alistair wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
>
> A friend (not the boozy chum) has been saved many times by the hidden
> restore partition when his kids have trashed his machine.

Agreed. There are, however, hundreds of

stories on the newsgroup to
which I referred of people unable to reconstruct their OS from the "hidden"
partition. You have to have a viable OS to build the recovery CDs and if you
get, for example, a boot sector virus, you're toast.

On the other hand, if you have the installation CD that comes with a retail
version you can: 1) Do a recovery or repair install, or 2) Install the OS on
a completely different machine, somehow access the hard drive from the
floppy (this requires disassembly and special wiring harnesses), and reclaim
your precious data.

Remember, many OEM versions of XP (certainly the Dell and Gateway ones) are
locked to the specific machine or model with which they came.

>
>
> You are legally able to buy machines without the OS pre-installed.
> When shipped they probably do have WinXP but where you stand legally
> if you
> use it is anyones guess.

Sorry, I don't get the drift of that last sentence.

>
> One problem with doing a clean install (or a restore from the hidden
> partition) is that you can end up losing vital software. Another
> non-boozy chum restored after his kid trashed his store-bought laptop
> and lost his wireless software. The pc won't communicate remotely by
> wi-fi as he had originally intended. So make sure you have install
> disks for all software before wiping the disk.

Good point. In addition, I recommend jotting down in a notebook all the
software you install via downloads (along with serial numbers and unlock
info).

>
>
> Docking stations can be more trouble than they are worth. A colleague
> was unable to get his laptop to work with a series of docking
> stations. However, the next laptop he got worked perfectly.

Okay, I'll revise my recommendation: "You may consider a laptop with a
WORKING docking station capability..." Granted, they are trouble, but
sometimes necessary. For example, adding a hard drive with greater transfer
rate than 100 bytes per minute from a USB plug-in.

>
>
> When ordering Dell it helps to speak Urdu/Punjabi/Gujarati, etc. Also,
> if you have no credit record worth a jot, or are over 60 years old,
> then a refusal to give credit may well offend.
>
>
> Make sure you have a good gig of ram and at least 80 gigs of HD ram.
> Generally, although you probably only need 256 MB ram and 40MB HD, the
> better spec-ed a machine is then the longer it will stay current and
> likely to meet your future changing requirements.

Vista will require a minimum of 512Mbytes of RAM (and 800MHz processor).

>
> Have you considered a tablet pc? They have pen input as well as mouse
> and keyboard.

HeyBub

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

Howard Brazee wrote:
> I've always thought the hinge should be a handle. I also think the
> laptop should have a compartment for a real mouse. There is a large
> population of people who have small lap tops, in a suitcase with all
> of its accessories. That kind of spoils the advantage of being
> small.

Makes no diff. You can carry 23 pounds of stuff (roughly 10 kilos). If the
computer itself gets lighter, you'll just stick more things in the bag.

Howard Brazee

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:54:56 -0500, "HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Makes no diff. You can carry 23 pounds of stuff (roughly 10 kilos). If the
>computer itself gets lighter, you'll just stick more things in the bag.

I want to eliminate the bag altogether.

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

In article <56lgg2duea000gclcd5qma24j05otgqs1t@4ax.com>,
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:54:56 -0500, "HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>I want to eliminate the bag altogether.

Oh, I *cannot* resist...

.... and that's the problem with these kids nowadays, no trying to work
things out, always running for divorce.

DD

SkippyPB

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:14:28 GMT, "William M. Klein"
<wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> enlightened us:

>After several years of NOT traveling with a PC, I am *thinking* about getting a
>Laptop/Notebook. I was wondering if those who post to this newsgroup have
>recommendations.
>
>My PRIMARY issue is that it MUST have a 17in (or larger) built-in screen.
>(Having an easy way to plug in an external monitor is also a "nice-to-have")
>
>I do NOT plan on using it for "interactive games" or similar graphic-intensive
>software.
>
>I will use it under Microsoft Windows XP (professional) and will update to Vista
>when available. I'll also be using Microsoft Office Professional. I will
>probably run either Micro Focus and/or Fujitsu COBOL products.
>
>I need to have Wi-Fi access (but don't really know what that means <G> ). I'll be
>using it for both email and internet access.
>
>I do NOT think that I need Linux (dual-boot) but I might want to add that
>"someday".
>
> ***
>
>I have looked at both the Dell and Gateway sites and gone thru their "design it
>yourself" systems, but I don't really know enough to make intelligent choices.
>I have looked at CNET and a couple other "review" sites and don't get much help
>from that either.
>
>***
>
>I know that this is a "personal" as paragraphs vs sections or other
>long-standing disputes, but I thought some of you might be able to get me on the
>right track. Price is NOT a primary concern, but (of course) the cheaper the
>better - provided the quality is good.

I've bought Dell laptops for two of my daughters. One is in college,
the other is a real estate agent. Both love them, have had them for
over a year and have had no problems despite the battery recall.

I personally travel with a Compaq Evo N16C and it does the job well.

Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-

Something I learned from watching movies:
During all police investigations, it will be necessary
to visit a strip club at least once.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remove nospam to email me.

Steve

HeyBub

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:54:56 -0500, "HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> I want to eliminate the bag altogether.

Good idea. I recommend Velcro(tm).

Pete Dashwood

2006-09-13, 6:55 pm

Bill,

Having the mobile lifestyle that I do I cannot imagine life WITHOUT a
Laptop/notebook. In fact, I haven't had a destop computer since 1993...

I replace them every 4 - 5 years (and keep the old ones... the earliest I
have is running Windows 3.1 :-))

Currently, like yourself, I am s

ing a new one and I need it to be Vista
ready.

There is a new chip set from Intel (previously called "Merom" or, in its
desktop incarnation, "Conroe") which is not quite freely availbale yet but
which will be, over the next couple of months. This is called "Core 2" and
is 64 bit. The previous (and current) incarnation of dual core is 32 bit.
(This means you will only be able to run the 32 bit version of Vista).

I too looked at Dell (who are now offering this chipset on back order) but I
was very disappointed in their Malaysian call centre and the lack of
knowledgeable people whom I could talk to.

I'm still looking and briefly, here is a spec outline:

Processor: Intel 64 bit dual core (core 2) T74000 (The T76000 is marginally
more powerful but I don't believe the increase in cost is justified.)
Memory: 2 GB
Screen: 17" preferably with built in web cam (I'm really getting into Skype
video and loving it :-))
HDD: 7800 RPM SATA with 100GB (I need 2 of these as I want to be able to
image copy or use RAID) DON'T go for the slower 5400 RPM; disk speed makes a
huge difference.

Yes, you need WiFi but that is virtually standard on all new machines now.

I have a number of other requirements for various ports and devices but the
above is the nub of it.

I know you won't be playing games (me neither) but, in fact, some of the
so-called games machines are much more powerful than a standard notebook.
Don't be put off if it is designated as a 'games machine'; buy to the spec.

So far, the best looking deal has been from Sager (check them out in Google)
who are New York based. Their sales people are knowledgeable, they responded
in a timely fashion and they can build my spec for around $3 - 4 thousand US
dollars. We are just waiting on the chip availability, but I have them on my
list of 'finalists'.

Good luck!

Pete.

"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:UXINg.233355$Df2.177978@fe05.news.easynews.com...
> After several years of NOT traveling with a PC, I am *thinking* about
> getting a Laptop/Notebook. I was wondering if those who post to this
> newsgroup have recommendations.
>
> My PRIMARY issue is that it MUST have a 17in (or larger) built-in screen.
> (Having an easy way to plug in an external monitor is also a
> "nice-to-have")
>
> I do NOT plan on using it for "interactive games" or similar
> graphic-intensive software.
>
> I will use it under Microsoft Windows XP (professional) and will update to
> Vista when available. I'll also be using Microsoft Office Professional. I
> will probably run either Micro Focus and/or Fujitsu COBOL products.
>
> I need to have Wi-Fi access (but don't really know what that means <G> ).
> I'll be using it for both email and internet access.
>
> I do NOT think that I need Linux (dual-boot) but I might want to add that
> "someday".
>
> ***
>
> I have looked at both the Dell and Gateway sites and gone thru their
> "design it yourself" systems, but I don't really know enough to make
> intelligent choices. I have looked at CNET and a couple other "review"
> sites and don't get much help from that either.
>
> ***
>
> I know that this is a "personal" as paragraphs vs sections or other
> long-standing disputes, but I thought some of you might be able to get me
> on the right track. Price is NOT a primary concern, but (of course) the
> cheaper the better - provided the quality is good.
>
> --
> Bill Klein
> wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
>

William M. Klein

2006-09-13, 9:55 pm

Thanks to all who have responded to my question. I am still not certain what to
do - but I do think I will go to a "computer store" to at least look at some of
the machines to give me some more ideas.

--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com

HeyBub

2006-09-13, 9:55 pm

William M. Klein wrote:
> Thanks to all who have responded to my question. I am still not
> certain what to do - but I do think I will go to a "computer store"
> to at least look at some of the machines to give me some more ideas.

Don't overlook www.walmart.com (seriously).

Richard

2006-09-13, 9:55 pm

William M. Klein wrote:

> Thanks to all who have responded to my question. I am still not certain what to
> do - but I do think I will go to a "computer store" to at least look at some of
> the machines to give me some more ideas.

My view is to buy the cheapest machine that you can put up with, but
add RAM to 512Mbyte, on the basis that whatever you buy will be
obsolete and worth nothing in a year anyway.

However a 17inch scrren probably eliminates that path, they are usually
the top end models.

Frederico Fonseca

2006-09-14, 3:55 am

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 01:16:35 GMT, "William M. Klein"
<wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote:

>Thanks to all who have responded to my question. I am still not certain what to
>do - but I do think I will go to a "computer store" to at least look at some of
>the machines to give me some more ideas.

Sorry I did not had time to suggest any model.

My advice is in line with that of Robert Jones.

I would also add that if you wish to run VPC or VMWARE then get 2GB of
ram instead of the minimum 1GB (don't buy with less than this).

Frederico Fonseca
ema il: frederico_fonseca at syssoft-int.com

Robin Lee

2006-09-14, 6:55 pm

William M. Klein wrote:
> Thanks to all who have responded to my question. I am still not certain what to
> do - but I do think I will go to a "computer store" to at least look at some of
> the machines to give me some more ideas.
>

I've owned four Compaq's personally and they have been very reliable.
All still work, except the third one, which my son spilled lemonade
into. The oldest is a 486 and I still use it sometimes because of the
projects I had installed on it. The newest bought in 2000 with Win98 and
I use sometimes also for the projects on it, but seems old and slow by
today's standards. I've bought two more Compaq's since they were taken
over by HP (for my wife and son) and all though they are pleased with
them, I feel that they are slow and cumbersome.

Working as tech support for some years I saw many, many problems with
Dell laptops. Perhaps it's because they are so popular, but I avoid
them. I've read many good things about Fujitsu and heard of problems
with Sony by have no experience with them myself.

I now use a Lenovo (formerly IBM) thinkpad, which has a few nice
features, but some annoyances also. Where I was accustomed to using the
"function" key on ALL of my Compaq's to access the numeric keypad (the
special +/-/* keys on the right) this seems to be totally absent on the
Thinkpad and requires repeated multiple shift-numlock keystrokes.

Others in the Thinkpad community seem to be clueless why I find that so
annoying. Also the red pointer button interferes with the keyboard.

The Thinkpad comes stock with XP Professional. I ordered it online after
much frustration in computer stores, as they focus on consumer oriented
appliances. I also suggest you avoid so-called widescreen multimedia
laptops as the screen resolution distorts some software and you likely
won't need the theatrical features.

Incidently, I have never (knock on wood) had to restore an entire laptop
from backup media. For backing up my work I copy everything to a huge
desktop via the network. Even wireless it goes quickly.

Michael Wojcik

2006-09-14, 6:55 pm

In article <12gg7jvj2ptbp62@news.supernews.com>, "HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com> writes:
>
> 4. Quality varies from w

-to-w

. Dell and Gateway buy their components
> as commodities contrasted with Sony and Fijutsu who manufacture (mostly)
> from the ground up.

I strongly doubt any one manufacturer produces most of the components
in their laptop systems in their own factories.

> It's a crap-shoot (witness some airlines refusing to
> allow some laptops (Gateway, Apple, Dell?) onboard out of fear of fire from
> the defective batteries).

Meaningless security theater (if it's being done at all). There's no
significant danger to an aircraft from a malfunctioning laptop battery
that's not present with a working laptop battery. Laptops are already
a decent source of weapons and smuggling opportunities; they're too
popular with passengers to ban, so air transport "security" efforts
ignore them.

The defective Dell and Apple batteries were made by Sony, by the way.

--
Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@microfocus.com

I do not find all this absurdity people talk about.
Perhaps a paradise, a serious paradise where lovers
hold hands and everything works.
I am not sentimental. -- Elizabeth Bishop

Michael Wojcik

2006-09-14, 6:55 pm

In article <fkbgg25fkht8ka9i02pd0rplqkiv76v6rk@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> writes:
>
> I've always thought the hinge should be a handle.

I avoid carrying my laptop any distance without a protective cover.
Why ask for trouble?

> I also think the
> laptop should have a compartment for a real mouse.

I'm sure there are people who would like that. For me, it'd be a
waste of space; I haven't used one of those external mice, on a
laptop or desktop system, for about seven years now. I loathe
external mice, which require me to remove my hands from the home
row of the keyboard.

--
Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@microfocus.com

"We are facing a dire shortage of clowns," said Erickson, also known as
Jingles.

Michael Wojcik

2006-09-14, 6:55 pm

In article <f70ig29b8222nac1nt1t60sa68vk7lbelh@4ax.com>, Frederico Fonseca <real-email-in-msg-spam@email.com> writes:
>
> I would also add that if you wish to run VPC or VMWARE then get 2GB of
> ram instead of the minimum 1GB (don't buy with less than this).

This depends greatly on application mix, but I find my Thinkpad R40
is just fine for simultaneous development under Windows XP (host)
and Linux (under VMWare Workstation) with only 768 MB for RAM. Of
course, I avoid some prominent resource hogs, such as GUI IDEs.

--
Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@microfocus.com

Is it any wonder the world's gone insane, with information come to be
the only real medium of exchange? -- Thomas Pynchon

Howard Brazee

2006-09-14, 6:55 pm

On 14 Sep 2006 16:01:30 GMT, mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik)
wrote:

>
>I avoid carrying my laptop any distance without a protective cover.
>Why ask for trouble?

What does the cover do except protect against cosmetic scratches?

>
>I'm sure there are people who would like that. For me, it'd be a
>waste of space; I haven't used one of those external mice, on a
>laptop or desktop system, for about seven years now. I loathe
>external mice, which require me to remove my hands from the home
>row of the keyboard.

If a majority of customers agreed with you, then a majority of desktop
keyboards would have pointer devices in them the way laptop computers
do.

William M. Klein

2006-09-14, 6:55 pm

Michael, (not posted)
So you avoid GUI IDE's. That won't do for me *IF* I am going to run Micro
Focus - for J4 testing. I sent a private email to Gary Crook asking if anyone
in "your" IT would have suggestions. I haven't heard back from him (so he may
be away from the office on business or pleasure). Do you know if they (IT)
makes such recommendations these days.

--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
"Michael Wojcik" <mwojcik@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:eebukm01s3n@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> In article <f70ig29b8222nac1nt1t60sa68vk7lbelh@4ax.com>, Frederico Fonseca
> <real-email-in-msg-spam@email.com> writes:
>
> This depends greatly on application mix, but I find my Thinkpad R40
> is just fine for simultaneous development under Windows XP (host)
> and Linux (under VMWare Workstation) with only 768 MB for RAM. Of
> course, I avoid some prominent resource hogs, such as GUI IDEs.
>
> --
> Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@microfocus.com
>
> Is it any wonder the world's gone insane, with information come to be
> the only real medium of exchange? -- Thomas Pynchon

William M. Klein

2006-09-14, 6:55 pm

OOPS.
I meant to send this privately. Sorry about this. (Reply to group is way to
"close" to Reply <G> )

--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:%WgOg.735214$bN2.78270@fe09.news.easynews.com...
> Michael, (not posted)
> So you avoid GUI IDE's. That won't do for me *IF* I am going to run Micro
> Focus - for J4 testing. I sent a private email to Gary Crook asking if anyone
> in "your" IT would have suggestions. I haven't heard back from him (so he may
> be away from the office on business or pleasure). Do you know if they (IT)
> makes such recommendations these days.
>
> --
> Bill Klein
> wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
> "Michael Wojcik" <mwojcik@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> news:eebukm01s3n@news3.newsguy.com...
>
>

Richard

2006-09-14, 6:55 pm

William M. Klein wrote:
> OOPS.
> I meant to send this privately. Sorry about this. (Reply to group is way to
> "close" to Reply <G> )

See, that's what happens when you use a mouse - <click> <click> oops.

With a decent command line that sort of thing *never* happens ;-)

Oliver Wong

2006-09-14, 6:55 pm

"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:UXINg.233355$Df2.177978@fe05.news.easynews.com...
>
> I need to have Wi-Fi access (but don't really know what that means <G> ).
> I'll be using it for both email and internet access.

Wi-Fi is essentially a wireless networking technology, as others have
said. However note that there are 3 standards for WiFi called 'a', 'b' and
'g' (or more formally, 802.11a, 802.11b and 802.11g). A 'g' device can talk
to a 'b' device, but otherwise mutually incompatible. In North America, the
most common standard seems to be 'b', but I don't know if this applies all
over the world. That said, it isn't too difficult to find devices can that
support all three standards (they'll be label as "Wifi a/b/g" or somethign
similar). So for maximum flexibility, you'll probably want to get one of
those "all three" devices. Failing that, and assuming 'b' is the most common
in your locale, you'll probably want to get a 802.11g device (which can
speak to 802.11b devices, but not to 802.11a devices).

- Oliver

Alistair

2006-09-14, 6:55 pm

HeyBub wrote:
> Alistair wrote:
>
> Sorry, I don't get the drift of that last sentence.
>

If you purchase a machine, bare-bones, but someone has pre-installed
WinXP on it (as they do in the UK), then you legally do not have
ownership of a licence for the OS and can not use the pre-installed OS.
If you are caught red-handed using an unlicenced OS (even a
pre-installed one where the CDs come with the machine) then you are
probably committing a civil offence.

2006-09-14, 6:55 pm

In article <9h6jg2t8q4683ltsb67u7ee1p97eclhatr@4ax.com>,
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
>On 14 Sep 2006 16:01:30 GMT, mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik)
>wrote:
>
>
>What does the cover do except protect against cosmetic scratches?

Answering a question with a question, Mr Brazee, is no answer at all.

DD

Pete Dashwood

2006-09-14, 9:55 pm

"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:9h6jg2t8q4683ltsb67u7ee1p97eclhatr@
4ax.com...
> On 14 Sep 2006 16:01:30 GMT, mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik)
> wrote:
>
>
> What does the cover do except protect against cosmetic scratches?
>
>
> If a majority of customers agreed with you, then a majority of desktop
> keyboards would have pointer devices in them the way laptop computers
> do.

Howard, that doesn't follow at all.

The original idea of the trackpad pointer was so that people could use their
laptops/notebooks in limited space where there simply may not be room to use
a mouse. With a desktop system that is not an issue, so they don't need such
a device.

I can understand (and I share) Michael's preference because, as we know,
people like what they are used to. Like him, I'm used to a trackpad so I
prefer that; but I don't HATE external mice... Yesterday I was working on a
desktop machine that had the cutting edge in optical wireless mouse and it
was a nightmare. It had about five different parts of it that you could
click and I couldn't seem to pick it up without clicking SOMETHING :-). No
good for me. Yet the person who owns it has no trouble at all with it.

Your last paragraph above is not true because no studies have been done to
find out whether the majority of customers would want a trackpad with their
desktop systems. I have seen keyboards for destops that DID include a
trackpad, exactly so that people (like Michael) can keep their hands where
they want them.

Pete.

Pete Dashwood

2006-09-14, 9:55 pm

"Richard" <riplin@Azonic.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1158260931.100673.299330@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> William M. Klein wrote:
>
> See, that's what happens when you use a mouse - <click> <click> oops.
>
> With a decent command line that sort of thing *never* happens ;-)
>

Actual case from long ago...
spool

CLI command to view print queues...(Simultaneous Print Operations On-Line)

spook

CLI command to run secret program to access protected and private data...

One glass of wine at lunch, and all Hell breaks loose... :-)

When dealing with computers there is NO user interface that is foolproof...

Pete.

spoof

HeyBub

2006-09-14, 9:55 pm

Alistair wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
>
> If you purchase a machine, bare-bones, but someone has pre-installed
> WinXP on it (as they do in the UK), then you legally do not have
> ownership of a licence for the OS and can not use the pre-installed
> OS. If you are caught red-handed using an unlicenced OS (even a
> pre-installed one where the CDs come with the machine) then you are
> probably committing a civil offence.

The seller installed XP to test the system? Okay, that's possible.

But I disagree you've committed an offense. In common law a necessary
element of any criminal offense or civil tort is knowledge; you knew (or
should have known) that the actions you took were proscribed.

If I buy a car and discover the tank is full of fuel, I am allowed to
presume the car comes that way and my purchase price - unless stated
otherwise - included a tank of gas. It is inconcievable the dealership would
file criminal charges for theft or institute a civil claim for the value of
the fuel. And even if the seller did take either action, I can't believe a
jury would take his side.

Alistair

2006-09-15, 7:55 am

Richard wrote:
> William M. Klein wrote:
>
> See, that's what happens when you use a mouse - <click> <click> oops.
>
> With a decent command line that sort of thing *never* happens ;-)

A decent command line? Overheard at work (some years ago), an operator
showing a newbie the ropes at a pc:

Having entered DELETE C: at the DOS command prompt;
"Under no circumstances should you press ENTER at this point";
"OH, sh*t!"

Howard Brazee

2006-09-15, 6:55 pm

On 14 Sep 2006 14:34:49 -0700, "Alistair"
<alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>If you purchase a machine, bare-bones, but someone has pre-installed
>WinXP on it (as they do in the UK), then you legally do not have
>ownership of a licence for the OS and can not use the pre-installed OS.

Why not? As long as someone pays for that copy on my machine?

>If you are caught red-handed using an unlicenced OS (even a
>pre-installed one where the CDs come with the machine) then you are
>probably committing a civil offence.

Whether or not you're committing a civil offence does not depend upon
getting caught.

Howard Brazee

2006-09-15, 6:55 pm

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:52:31 +1200, "Pete Dashwood"
<dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:

>
>Howard, that doesn't follow at all.
>
>The original idea of the trackpad pointer was so that people could use their
>laptops/notebooks in limited space where there simply may not be room to use
>a mouse. With a desktop system that is not an issue, so they don't need such
>a device.
>
>I can understand (and I share) Michael's preference because, as we know,
>people like what they are used to. Like him, I'm used to a trackpad so I
>prefer that; but I don't HATE external mice... Yesterday I was working on a
>desktop machine that had the cutting edge in optical wireless mouse and it
>was a nightmare. It had about five different parts of it that you could
>click and I couldn't seem to pick it up without clicking SOMETHING :-). No
>good for me. Yet the person who owns it has no trouble at all with it.

I understand it as well - but I am not talking about us - I'm talking
about the buying public.

>Your last paragraph above is not true because no studies have been done to
>find out whether the majority of customers would want a trackpad with their
>desktop systems. I have seen keyboards for destops that DID include a
>trackpad, exactly so that people (like Michael) can keep their hands where
>they want them.

I can go to the store and select among a bunch of third party
keyboards. Most of these do not have such pointers - but some do.
Certainly the manufacturers keep track of which keyboards sell best,
so I don't believe your statement that such studies have not been
done.

Richard

2006-09-15, 6:55 pm

Michael Wojcik wrote:

DD>> What does the cover do except protect against cosmetic scratches?
>
> It resists fluid and particulate penetration and provides additional
> shock resistance. Every bit helps.

My laptop is in a backpack, so I eliminate dropping it too, and I have
both hands free in case I need to save myself from dropping.

If a cover _only_ protects from cosmetic scratches then get a better
'cover'.

Richard

2006-09-15, 6:55 pm

Alistair wrote:

>
> A decent command line? Overheard at work (some years ago), an operator
> showing a newbie the ropes at a pc:
>
> Having entered DELETE C: at the DOS command prompt;
> "Under no circumstances should you press ENTER at this point";
> "OH, sh*t!"

I quite clearly stated "a _decent_ command line", DOS ain't that.

With MS-DOS it isn't 'decent' deliberately. DRI with their
Concurrent-DOS and DR-DOS had a halfway decent one, and a good help
system. MS did add some functionality with DOSKEY but then didn't even
make it the default, it was there just to stop people buying 4DOS or
similar, and to be able to say 'we have that too' in comparison with
DR-DOS. The policy was to make it as awful and inconvenient as possible
so Windows seemed good by comparison.

Howard Brazee

2006-09-15, 6:55 pm

On 15 Sep 2006 18:23:21 GMT, mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik)
wrote:

>And if I were absolute ruler of the world, all the desktop keyboards
>*I* ever had to use would be the sort I like, you betcha. I'm not
>sure I see your point.

My point is that vendors should also consider the majority.

1. I suggested some laptops should have a place to hold a mouse.
2. You said, you're sure some people would like it, but not you.
3. I pointed out that a majority of keyboard purchases are without a
built-in pointer device. This indicates that most people prefer
external mouses.

Michael Wojcik

2006-09-15, 6:55 pm

In article <9h6jg2t8q4683ltsb67u7ee1p97eclhatr@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> writes:
> On 14 Sep 2006 16:01:30 GMT, mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik)
> wrote:
>
>
> What does the cover do except protect against cosmetic scratches?

It resists fluid and particulate penetration and provides additional
shock resistance. Every bit helps.

>
> If a majority of customers agreed with you, then a majority of desktop
> keyboards would have pointer devices in them the way laptop computers
> do.

And if I were absolute ruler of the world, all the desktop keyboards
*I* ever had to use would be the sort I like, you betcha. I'm not
sure I see your point.

--
Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@microfocus.com

Shakespeare writes bombast and knows it; Mr Thomas writes bombast and
doesn't. That is the difference. -- Geoffrey Johnson

Alistair

2006-09-16, 6:55 pm

HeyBub wrote:
> Alistair wrote:
>
> But I disagree you've committed an offense. In common law a necessary
> element of any criminal offense or civil tort is knowledge; you knew (or
> should have known) that the actions you took were proscribed.

aain the UK, Lord Chief Justice Widgery said, mant years ago,
"Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

>
> If I buy a car and discover the tank is full of fuel, I am allowed to
> presume the car comes that way and my purchase price - unless stated
> otherwise - included a tank of gas. It is inconcievable the dealership would
> file criminal charges for theft or institute a civil claim for the value of
> the fuel. And even if the seller did take either action, I can't believe a
> jury would take his side.

SkippyPB

2006-09-16, 6:55 pm

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 12:51:14 -0600, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net>
enlightened us:

>On 15 Sep 2006 18:23:21 GMT, mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik)
>wrote:
>
>
>My point is that vendors should also consider the majority.
>
>1. I suggested some laptops should have a place to hold a mouse.
>2. You said, you're sure some people would like it, but not you.
>3. I pointed out that a majority of keyboard purchases are without a
>built-in pointer device. This indicates that most people prefer
>external mouses.

Just to add my two cents or pence or whatever currency is the smallest
in the country you live in - I hate those pads on the laptops that you
are supposed to use as a mouse. Those little sticks are even worse.
The problem I have with the pad is the way I type my thumbs sometimes
touch the pad which causes the pointer to jump or do other strange,
annoying things. Also, I curse them more than not when trying to make
even the smallest, innocuous pointer movement. I vastly prefer an
external mouse and carry one in my laptop bag along with a full sized
collapsible keyboard because I'm not too fond of those laptop
keyboards either.

Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-

Something I learned from watching movies:
During all police investigations, it will be necessary
to visit a strip club at least once.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remove nospam to email me.

Steve

Richard Brady

2006-09-16, 6:55 pm

SkippyPB wrote:
[snip]
> Just to add my two cents or pence or whatever currency is the smallest
> in the country you live in - I hate those pads on the laptops that you
> are supposed to use as a mouse. Those little sticks are even worse.
> The problem I have with the pad is the way I type my thumbs sometimes
> touch the pad which causes the pointer to jump or do other strange,
> annoying things. Also, I curse them more than not when trying to make
> even the smallest, innocuous pointer movement. I vastly prefer an
> external mouse and carry one in my laptop bag along with a full sized
> collapsible keyboard because I'm not too fond of those laptop
> keyboards either.
Agreed on both accounts. But why a mouse at all? dragging a mouse
around an airplane fold-out table makes no sense either. Please,
consider a trackball.

another Richard

HeyBub

2006-09-16, 9:55 pm

Alistair wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
>
> aain the UK, Lord Chief Justice Widgery said, mant years ago,
> "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."
>

But ignorance of the facts is a perfect defense. You have to KNOW (or should
have known) what you were doing was proscribed - not necessarily the law,
but the facts.

If you did not know you were carrying a pistol (someone else put it under
the seat) you have a perfect defense.

If you did not know (nor could have known) that you were overdrawn, you
cannot be liable for cashing a hot check.

And so on.

Alistair

2006-09-17, 9:55 pm

HeyBub wrote:
> Alistair wrote:
>
> But ignorance of the facts is a perfect defense. You have to KNOW (or should
> have known) what you were doing was proscribed - not necessarily the law,
> but the facts.
>
> If you did not know you were carrying a pistol (someone else put it under
> the seat) you have a perfect defense.
>
> If you did not know (nor could have known) that you were overdrawn, you
> cannot be liable for cashing a hot check.
>
> And so on.

I think that what the Lord Chief Justice (as he was at that time) meant
was that you are guilty but that your ignorance of the law (or the
misplaced pistols' location) may be used in mitigation. Otherwise we
could all use the excuse "Sorry m'lud, ah dinnae ken fit yer law is".

Alistair

2006-09-17, 9:55 pm

HeyBub wrote:
> Alistair wrote:
>
> But ignorance of the facts is a perfect defense. You have to KNOW (or should
> have known) what you were doing was proscribed - not necessarily the law,
> but the facts.
>
> If you did not know you were carrying a pistol (someone else put it under
> the seat) you have a perfect defense.
>
> If you did not know (nor could have known) that you were overdrawn, you
> cannot be liable for cashing a hot check.
>
> And so on.

It occured to me, after the last post, that it may be the case that
English or UK law pertaining to times prior to 1777 may be applicable
in the US. Is it indeed the case?

HeyBub

2006-09-18, 6:55 pm

Alistair wrote:
>
>
> It occured to me, after the last post, that it may be the case that
> English or UK law pertaining to times prior to 1777 may be applicable
> in the US. Is it indeed the case?

Yes. The Common Law prevails unless over-ridden by statute. For example,
"Judicial Notice" (that quality a judge has simply because he's human and
lives in the society) is nowhere codified but is universally accepted. A
judge can presume, based on his experience, that one gets wet when it rains
or that the enviornment is dark at night. These need not be proven.

With regard to the 'pistol under the seat' situation, there is a rebuttable
presumption that you knew it was there. If, however, you can prove you did
not know of the pistol's presence (it wasn't yor auto, the parish priest put
it there and did not tell you, etc.), you go free. You go free because you
did not know a fact required to establish the offense.

Howard Brazee

2006-09-18, 6:55 pm

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:58:08 -0500, "HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com>
wrote:

>With regard to the 'pistol under the seat' situation, there is a rebuttable
>presumption that you knew it was there. If, however, you can prove you did
>not know of the pistol's presence (it wasn't yor auto, the parish priest put
>it there and did not tell you, etc.), you go free. You go free because you
>did not know a fact required to establish the offense.

However, if you own a business flying people around in your airplane,
and one of your passengers is caught smuggling dope in your plane, the
law enforcement in the U.S. can take your plane and your business
without what used to be considered due process.

Howard Brazee

2006-09-18, 6:55 pm

On 15 Sep 2006 15:05:53 -0700, "Richard" <riplin@Azonic.co.nz> wrote:

>My laptop is in a backpack, so I eliminate dropping it too, and I have
>both hands free in case I need to save myself from dropping.
>
>If a cover _only_ protects from cosmetic scratches then get a better
>'cover'.

It also helps you get a workout, by giving you more weight to carry
around. My wife's computer case even has wheels. What happens is
she doesn't carry it as much as would be useful - too much work.

There are plenty of legitimate uses of laptops where having the
computer convenient and ready isn't important. Big cases work well
in those cases.

But there are also reasons to have it ready to use in a couple of
seconds (in sleep mode).

Howard Brazee

2006-09-18, 6:55 pm

On 15 Sep 2006 14:52:57 -0700, "Richard" <riplin@Azonic.co.nz> wrote:

>With MS-DOS it isn't 'decent' deliberately. DRI with their
>Concurrent-DOS and DR-DOS had a halfway decent one, and a good help
>system. MS did add some functionality with DOSKEY but then didn't even
>make it the default, it was there just to stop people buying 4DOS or
>similar, and to be able to say 'we have that too' in comparison with
>DR-DOS. The policy was to make it as awful and inconvenient as possible
>so Windows seemed good by comparison.

DOSKEY is older than Windows.

HeyBub

2006-09-18, 6:55 pm

Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:58:08 -0500, "HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> However, if you own a business flying people around in your airplane,
> and one of your passengers is caught smuggling dope in your plane, the
> law enforcement in the U.S. can take your plane and your business
> without what used to be considered due process.

This is a media exaggeration. The authorities only confiscate the plane (or
boat or car or cash) if they have an immediate need for a plane (or boat or
car or cash).

There was a case recently were a Guatamalan immigrant was discovered during
airport security with $180,000 in cash. Turns out, he and four others had
pooled their money to buy a refrigerated truck for a new business they were
starting. When he got to Chicago, he found the truck had already been sold,
and his cash-carrying ways were discovered on the way back to Phoenix.

He was free to go, but the feds kept his money.

Richard

2006-09-18, 6:55 pm

Howard Brazee wrote:

> DOSKEY is older than Windows.

No. That is not true. It may be older than Windows 95, but it certainly
isn't older than Windows 1.0.

In fact DOSKEY first came with MS-DOS 5 in 1991 which tried to match
DR-DOS 5 feature for feature but over a year later.

Windows 1.0 was 1985, 6 years older. In fact Windows 3.0 was 1990.

http://support.microsoft.com/defaul...3Ben-us%3B87278

"""The DOSKEY utility was added to MS-DOS in MS-DOS version 5.0. """

Robert Jones

2006-09-25, 6:55 pm

There is a good article on WiFi in the current (November 2006!!) issue
of Computer Shopper, which is published in the UK

message snipped

William M. Klein wrote:
> After several years of NOT traveling with a PC, I am *thinking* about getting a
> Laptop/Notebook. I was wondering if those who post to this newsgroup have
> recommendations.
>

> I need to have Wi-Fi access (but don't really know what that means <G> ). I'll be
> using it for both email and internet access.
>

>
> --
> Bill Klein
> wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com

William M. Klein

2006-09-25, 6:55 pm

Thanks (will check it out)

--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
"Robert Jones" <rjones0@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159213097.403951.215940@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> There is a good article on WiFi in the current (November 2006!!) issue
> of Computer Shopper, which is published in the UK
>
> message snipped
>
> William M. Klein wrote:
>
>
>

Doug Robinson

2006-10-05, 6:55 pm

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:14:28 +0000, William M. Klein wrote:

> After several years of NOT traveling with a PC, I am *thinking* about getting a
> Laptop/Notebook. I was wondering if those who post to this newsgroup have
> recommendations.
>
> My PRIMARY issue is that it MUST have a 17in (or larger) built-in screen.
> (Having an easy way to plug in an external monitor is also a "nice-to-have")
>
> I do NOT plan on using it for "interactive games" or similar graphic-intensive
> software.
>
> I will use it under Microsoft Windows XP (professional) and will update to Vista
> when available. I'll also be using Microsoft Office Professional. I will
> probably run either Micro Focus and/or Fujitsu COBOL products.
>
> I need to have Wi-Fi access (but don't really know what that means <G> ). I'll be
> using it for both email and internet access.
>
> I do NOT think that I need Linux (dual-boot) but I might want to add that
> "someday".
>
> ***
>
> I have looked at both the Dell and Gateway sites and gone thru their "design it
> yourself" systems, but I don't really know enough to make intelligent choices.
> I have looked at CNET and a couple other "review" sites and don't get much help
> from that either.
>
> ***
>
> I know that this is a "personal" as paragraphs vs sections or other
> long-standing disputes, but I thought some of you might be able to get me on the
> right track. Price is NOT a primary concern, but (of course) the cheaper the
> better - provided the quality is good.

The venerable hardware site 'Toms" has a review of the new Thinkpad's
running Linux. Ignore the Linux aspect and read what he has to say about
the new Thinkpad and some of the history of its development. It will
educate you on what is percieved to be important in laptop specs. Mine
has been to Turkey and back and really only has operated to its full
potential since I loaded Novell Suse 10.1 That being said it has
outlasted my Toby and the company Sony. (The apple remains in the box,
its to pretty to drag around airports..........)

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