Home > Archive > Cobol > January 2006 > Re: religion
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| Pete Dashwood 2006-01-10, 7:55 am |
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"Oliver Wong" <owong@castortech.com> wrote in message
news:wXywf.80084$6K2.54082@edtnps90...
>
> "Pete Dashwood" <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:414p31F1coilcU3@individual.net...
>
> I think we won't find a section of our universe which is composed of
> space but not time. If such a thing were to exist, it would have to exist
> outside of our universe (where "outside" here means both outside of our
> space and outside of our time).
>
> For example, "after" our universe ceases to exist, a new universe could
> "come into existence", which had no time. There would just be matter
> arranged in space, and the matter would "never" move. "After" that,
> another universe could come into existence, this one being composed of
> both time and space. Words like "after", "never", etc. are not appopriate
> here, because they talk about timelessness, but hopefully the meaning is
> clear.
>
> Once Alistair brought it up, I realized that I am not aware of any
> scientific theory which supports the idea that space requires time, though
> I believe there are some which support the idea that time requires space.
> I vaguely recall a discussion that time is actually a "derived" concept,
> and the "base" concepts that make up the universe are space and velocity.
>
> - Oliver
Space and time are related in very much the same way that energy and matter
are. However my basis for sayng this is philosophical, rather than physical.
If you consider matter to be energy that is moving "slower" than the speed
of light, and energy to be what matter converts to when it approaches the
speed of light (both gross but "useful" oversimplified distortions of
physics), then you can imagine time arising out of space and space arising
out of time. Relativity certainly implies that time is derived from
movement, and movement certainly implies space.
It is all interesting speculation; for myself, I cannot conceive space and
time as being anything other than interrelated.
(Gotta stop now as I have no more space or time :-))
Pete.
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| In article <42hj02F1if80kU1@individual.net>,
Pete Dashwood <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>"Oliver Wong" <owong@castortech.com> wrote in message
>news:wXywf.80084$6K2.54082@edtnps90...
[snip]
[color=darkred]
>Space and time are related in very much the same way that energy and matter
>are. However my basis for sayng this is philosophical, rather than physical.
Hmmmm... energy, matter and time all have units of measure but I don't
know of a measure of space which cannot be applied to matter
(absence-of-space)... but that's neither here nor there.
When you speak of the relation between energy and matter, however, there's
a little equation that was generated by a Swiss patent-clerk in 1905 that
says the two are the same, insofar as terms of a valid equation which are
on either side of the '=' sign are the same... 'The mass of a body is a
measure of its energy-content' and all that.
[snip]
>It is all interesting speculation; for myself, I cannot conceive space and
>time as being anything other than interrelated.
Back in the days before I had to work for a living I formulated 'Time is
the label applied to the purported sequentiality of events'.
DD
kk
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| Pete Dashwood 2006-01-11, 7:55 am |
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<docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:dq0cbq$460$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In article <42hj02F1if80kU1@individual.net>,
> Pete Dashwood <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Hmmmm... energy, matter and time all have units of measure but I don't
> know of a measure of space which cannot be applied to matter
> (absence-of-space)... but that's neither here nor there.
>
> When you speak of the relation between energy and matter, however, there's
> a little equation that was generated by a Swiss patent-clerk in 1905 that
> says the two are the same, insofar as terms of a valid equation which are
> on either side of the '=' sign are the same... 'The mass of a body is a
> measure of its energy-content' and all that.
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Back in the days before I had to work for a living I formulated 'Time is
> the label applied to the purported sequentiality of events'.
>
A friend of mine who is a Scientologist quotes L Ron Hubbard as: "Time is a
postulate that space and particles will persist."
(I have some very interesting conversations with this guy and his wife;
usually we call it a draw :-))
That's interesting and kind of agrees with your definition regarding
'sequentiality'.
Of course we know that there is no theoretical reason why Time can't run
backwards (it is symettrical mathematically), and some particles are even
considered to move in negative time (pi mesons and tachyons, for example),
but the laws of thermodynamics and consequent entropy cause the 'arrow' to
move 'forward' (according to Hawking...)
Oops... out of time again... :-)
Pete.
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| Howard Brazee 2006-01-11, 6:55 pm |
| On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 01:26:37 +1300, "Pete Dashwood"
<dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>Of course we know that there is no theoretical reason why Time can't run
>backwards (it is symettrical mathematically), and some particles are even
>considered to move in negative time (pi mesons and tachyons, for example),
>but the laws of thermodynamics and consequent entropy cause the 'arrow' to
>move 'forward' (according to Hawking...)
If all time went backwards, how could we tell?
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| Donald Tees 2006-01-11, 6:55 pm |
| Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 01:26:37 +1300, "Pete Dashwood"
> <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> If all time went backwards, how could we tell?
I'd be getting younger instead of older?
Donald
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| In article <8a9as19cd4qg016ps33f1bjld09jhbvldg@4ax.com>,
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 01:26:37 +1300, "Pete Dashwood"
><dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
>If all time went backwards, how could we tell?
There would be no random events; the universe would become rigidly
deterministic.
DD
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| Pete Dashwood 2006-01-12, 7:55 am |
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"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:8a9as19cd4qg016ps33f1bjld09jhbvldg@
4ax.com...
> On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 01:26:37 +1300, "Pete Dashwood"
> <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> If all time went backwards, how could we tell?
The universe would move from chaos to a more ordered state. That is
observably not true. (See "Entropy")... If it was, my bed would make itself
and the eggs would jump out of the pan and back into their shells...:-)
Pete.
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| Pete Dashwood 2006-01-12, 7:55 am |
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"Richard" <riplin@Azonic.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1137008449.204828.229980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hmmm. A religion, started as a $10 bet at a SciFi conference according
> to Van Vogt, based on Elron's bad SciFi and a pagurised
> pseudo-psychology, the basis of which is 'it ain't my fault that I am a
> failure'.
>
> Still, it's probably no worse than the others. ;-)
>
I'm not a convert, but it works for my friends and they are certainly
interesting to talk to.
In my opinion, it is definitely no worse than the others, (I'd rather talk
'religion' with them , than with some Roman Catholic friends I have... :-))
and far better than some I have encountered. (Like guys who nail their dicks
to a cheeseboard :-))
I don't recall them ever expressing your last statement; in fact, it seems
quite the opposite... "everything is my fault and I'm so responsible I now
need to spend loads of money so I can gain the power to do something about
it..." ;-)
Pete.
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| In article <42moi2F1j4jnrU1@individual.net>,
Pete Dashwood <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
> news:8a9as19cd4qg016ps33f1bjld09jhbvldg@
4ax.com...
>
>The universe would move from chaos to a more ordered state. That is
>observably not true. (See "Entropy")... If it was, my bed would make itself
>and the eggs would jump out of the pan and back into their shells...:-)
I remember reading someplace about the phenomenon of watching a typical
war movie backwards... something about how men lay dying in their
comrades' arms and suddenly the injuring shrapnel was sucked out of them
by explosions that re-formed into bombs which rose into the bellies of
airplanes which were moving contrary to their aerodynamic design. The
airplanes then returned to their home fields, where these bombs were then
unloaded from their bays, put into trucks that also moved contrary to
their aerodynamic design and brought to a factory where they were
dis-assembled so that they would never harm anyone else.
DD
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| Michael Mattias 2006-01-12, 7:55 am |
| <docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:dq5ivl$ihh$1@reader2.panix.com...
> I remember reading someplace about the phenomenon of watching a typical
> war movie backwards...
Things a little slow in your neighborhood, are they?
MCM
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| In article <4Dsxf.8215$dW3.2154@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
Michael Mattias <michael.mattias@gte.net> wrote:
><docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:dq5ivl$ihh$1@reader2.panix.com...
>
>Things a little slow in your neighborhood, are they?
Not so fast as that I can't spare a moment to recall what I read a few
decades back, no... but, in general, things in the US are 'a little slow'
from about the third w in November (Thanksgiving) to the third w in
January (when folks say 'Hey, I haven't done anything since
Thanksgiving!')
DD
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| Howard Brazee 2006-01-12, 6:55 pm |
| On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:44:37 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf@panix.com () wrote:
>
>I remember reading someplace about the phenomenon of watching a typical
>war movie backwards... something about how men lay dying in their
>comrades' arms and suddenly the injuring shrapnel was sucked out of them
>by explosions that re-formed into bombs which rose into the bellies of
>airplanes which were moving contrary to their aerodynamic design. The
>airplanes then returned to their home fields, where these bombs were then
>unloaded from their bays, put into trucks that also moved contrary to
>their aerodynamic design and brought to a factory where they were
>dis-assembled so that they would never harm anyone else.
An old SF story has a character who hopes his war wound isn't the
result of tripping on a tent stake. The end of the story occurs
after him and his dad are sitting around, then they go to the hospital
where they meet his mother for the first time.
But if time really flowed backwards - who's to say that our memories
aren't also flowing backwards? We still remember things from the
past - even if that's the direction we're moving. Everything else is
based upon the past, and memory is just what was created from the
past, so our "now" would be the same as if memory was moving forward.
And since "now" is all we have, that's what we have to work with.
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| Pete Dashwood 2006-01-13, 7:55 am |
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"Alistair" <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1137101740.212537.208980@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Pete Dashwood wrote:
>
> Have you seen the Red Dwarf tv series? They go to a world where time
> runs backwards. One of the characters goes behind a bush for a number
> two. |-(
>
I loved Red Dwarf but have not seen all series and definitely have not seen
the episode you mention (I'd remember... :-)
Pete.
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| Pete Dashwood 2006-01-13, 7:55 am |
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"Richard" <riplin@Azonic.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1137090977.466386.95740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> """ The book argued that the brain was analogous to a computer with
> two independent memory banks, the Analytical (conscious) Mind and the
> Reactive (subconscious) Mind. The latter is full of "engrams"
> (traumatic memories), which interfere with the operation of the
> Analytical Mind and cause personality problems and ailments such as
> asthma and arthritis.
>
> During "auditing" (therapy), the "pre-clear" (patient) can "run"
> (relive) and thus conquer the traumatic experiences. Once "clear," the
> patient would have super powers: total recall, high IQ, perfect health,
> and for all I know X-ray vision. Except for the inflated payoff, the
> parallels to Freudian analysis are obvious, including the high hourly
> fees you later had to pay to learn this stuff at Scientology centers.
> """
>
> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_134.html
>
> But the main thing is: don't annoy them. If they tell their 'church'
> that you are anti-scientology then there will be burnings on your front
> lawn and law suits ;-)
>
Well, first off, I'm not ('anti' I mean...)
I try not to make judgements about religions (or cults, or beliefs, or
whatever...)
In NZ we have everything... I wear a ring that was 'purified' by White
Witches... (No, I don't believe that nonsense, but why offend them when they
were trying to do me a favour?... And who knows? Quantum Theory indicates
there may be 'connection' between all things (well, all matter and energy
anyway...))
One of my team was complaining today that computers 'had it in' for her.
I've certainly met people who hate the technology and have nothing but
trouble with their computers. (Maybe it is a circular argument; maybe there
is some quantum fluctuation that places a tiny part of the fields that
constitute 'us', into the field of a printed circuit board... it remains
unproven. Until it is proven one way or the other, I'll try not to close my
mind to these weird possibilities...:-)
I may not approve of religion in general, but I certainly am not 'anti' any
specific one. (No, not even Jehovah's Witnesses... I've even been known to
invite them in (once, on a very slow day in Australia... :-))
> BTW Did you hear about the Agnostic branch of the KKK ? They come and
> burn a huge question mark on your front lawn.
>
Hahaha! I liked that... :-)
Do you know what happens if you cross a Jehovah's Witness with a Hell's
Angel?
You get someone who knocks on your door and tells YOU to XXXX off...
Pete.
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| Jeff York 2006-01-13, 7:55 am |
| "Pete Dashwood" <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
> One of my team was complaining today that computers 'had it in' for her.
Tell her either to stop wearing nylon knickers or to sit still when
she's working. :-)
--
Jeff. Ironbridge, Shrops, U.K.
jeff@xjackfieldx.org (remove the x..x round jackfield for return address)
and don't bother with ralf4, it's a spamtrap and I never go there.. :)
.... "There are few hours in life more agreeable
than the hour dedicated to the ceremony
known as afternoon tea.."
Henry James, (1843 - 1916).
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