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| Praveen 2005-08-18, 8:59 am |
| Hello...
I am a newbie in the vast world of VSAM. I came across couple of doubts
in my very long and twisted learning curve. I would be really
greatefull if someone can help me out?
Question 1
----------
Can a VSAM File act like a GDG BASE. i.e it should be like a GDG whose
any version and all version acts like a VSAM, with a .DATA and .INDEX
part.
Quesiton 2
----------
In the SORT PGM utility when we give a VSAM file to be sorted, what
exactly does the sort utility do. Does it sort the VSAM INDEX only or
VSAM Data only or Both. To be more accurate how does the SORT utility
funciton ?
Thank you very much for your valuable help..
Regards,
~Praveen
| |
| Michael Mattias 2005-08-18, 8:59 am |
| "Praveen" <praveen.unnithan@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124362739.805095.251650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hello...
>
> I am a newbie in the vast world of VSAM....
>...
>
> Question 1
> ----------
> Can a VSAM File act like a GDG BASE. i.e it should be like a GDG whose
> any version and all version acts like a VSAM, with a .DATA and .INDEX
> part.
No. (And see later comments re ".data" and ".index")
>
> Quesiton 2
> ----------
> In the SORT PGM utility when we give a VSAM file to be sorted, what
> exactly does the sort utility do. Does it sort the VSAM INDEX only or
> VSAM Data only or Both. To be more accurate how does the SORT utility
> funciton ?
SORT is a separate program, probably implemented as either SyncSort or
DFSort on your system. It's not part of VSAM. Behavior when sorting a VSAM
file is properly left to the publishers of those utilities.
Also: VSAM files do not always consist of "data" and "key" portions: VSAM is
much more than a 'key' utility. If you don't have 'paper' VSAM manuals, I
know IBM makes them available for browsing on-line. Sorry, no url handy,
you'll have to find it yourself.
But here's something you might be interested in:
"Windows/32 software to calculate space requirements (cylinders/tracks) for
VSAM files based on media, record size, CI Size/freespace percent and more.
Enables "tuning" of parameters to optimize DASD usage. Freeware"
http://www.talsystems.com/tsihome_h...s/VsamSpace.zip (program
plus separate doc)
http://www.talsystems.com/tsihome_h...s/VsamSpace.exe (program
only, doc can be extracted to text file at runtime)
--
Michael Mattias
Tal Systems, Inc.
Racine WI
mmattias@talsystems.com
| |
| Binyamin Dissen 2005-08-18, 5:55 pm |
| On 18 Aug 2005 03:58:59 -0700 "Praveen" <praveen.unnithan@gmail.com> wrote:
:>I am a newbie in the vast world of VSAM. I came across couple of doubts
:>in my very long and twisted learning curve. I would be really
:>greatefull if someone can help me out?
:>Question 1
:>----------
:>Can a VSAM File act like a GDG BASE. i.e it should be like a GDG whose
:>any version and all version acts like a VSAM, with a .DATA and .INDEX
:>part.
A VSAM file cannot be a GDG.
What are you trying to do?
:>Quesiton 2
:>----------
:>In the SORT PGM utility when we give a VSAM file to be sorted, what
:>exactly does the sort utility do. Does it sort the VSAM INDEX only or
:>VSAM Data only or Both. To be more accurate how does the SORT utility
:>funciton ?
It sorts the data. Obviously if the VSAM file is a KSDS there is no need to
sort in key order.
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdissen@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.
| |
|
| > I am a newbie in the vast world of VSAM. I came across couple of doubts
> in my very long and twisted learning curve. I would be really
> greatefull if someone can help me out?
>
> Question 1
> ----------
> Can a VSAM File act like a GDG BASE. i.e it should be like a GDG whose
> any version and all version acts like a VSAM, with a .DATA and .INDEX
> part.
>
> Quesiton 2
> ----------
> In the SORT PGM utility when we give a VSAM file to be sorted, what
> exactly does the sort utility do. Does it sort the VSAM INDEX only or
> VSAM Data only or Both. To be more accurate how does the SORT utility
> funciton ?
First, I don't know how they teach English over there but this drives me
nuts! You do not have a "doubt", you have a "question". You doubt something
that you think is untrue. You question something that you do not know. You
do not know if a VSAM file can be a GDG, therefore you have a question.
If I told you a VSAM file has chocolate ice cream hidden in the index
you would doubt that it was the truth.
#1. No, a VSAM cannot be a GDG base or a GDS (Generation DataSet).
Only sequential files can be a GDG's
#2 Sort will read a (KSDS) VSAM file sequentially from beginning to
end as if it were a flat file. The index contains informational
pointers to the data component to read in key sequence. Functionally,
it is read like a flat file. Once read, the data is treated as any other
data by sort. VSAM can be output as well. You can load an empty or
reuse VSAM file with sort. You must be sure the data is in key
sequence with no duplicates.
| |
| Rick Smith 2005-08-19, 4:12 pm |
|
"Ron" <Spamstopper@NoSpam.org> wrote in message
news:Xns96B6AE7FE2B5BSpamKillerNoSpamOrg
@216.196.97.140...
[snip]
> First, I don't know how they teach English over there but this drives me
> nuts!
And, Ron, your response drove me nuts! <g>
> You do not have a "doubt", you have a "question".
What better way to remove 'doubt' than to ask a question.
> You doubt something
> that you think is untrue.
As a verb, 'doubt' is synonymous with disbelief or distrust;
as a noun, it is synonomous with uncertainty.
> You question something that you do not know.
Or, about which one has 'doubt'.
> You
> do not know if a VSAM file can be a GDG, therefore you have a question.
And a 'doubt', which a question may remove.
> If I told you a VSAM file has chocolate ice cream hidden in the index
> you would doubt that it was the truth.
And, as a verb, that 'doubt' would be synonymous with
disbelief or distrust.
| |
| docdwarf@panix.com 2005-08-19, 4:12 pm |
| In article <Xns96B6AE7FE2B5BSpamKillerNoSpamOrg@216.196.97.140>,
Ron <Spamstopper@NoSpam.org> wrote:
[snip]
>If I told you a VSAM file has chocolate ice cream hidden in the index
>you would doubt that it was the truth.
Especially if he has any idea about 'plain vanilla' installations...
DD
| |
| docdwarf@panix.com 2005-08-19, 4:12 pm |
| In article <11ga5n3e1f37869@corp.supernews.com>,
Rick Smith <ricksmith@mfi.net> wrote:
>
>"Ron" <Spamstopper@NoSpam.org> wrote in message
> news:Xns96B6AE7FE2B5BSpamKillerNoSpamOrg
@216.196.97.140...
>[snip]
>
>And, Ron, your response drove me nuts! <g>
Hey... at least he didn't answer a doubt with a question.
>
>
>What better way to remove 'doubt' than to ask a question.
Why, direct and Divine enlightenment, of course... asking does nothing;
the answer might help, though.
DD
| |
| Peter Lacey 2005-08-19, 4:12 pm |
| Ron wrote:
>
> First, I don't know how they teach English over there but this drives me
> nuts! You do not have a "doubt", you have a "question". You doubt something
> that you think is untrue. You question something that you do not know. You
> do not know if a VSAM file can be a GDG, therefore you have a question.
> If I told you a VSAM file has chocolate ice cream hidden in the index
> you would doubt that it was the truth.
>
For heaven's sake - give him or her credit for effort! How would you
get on in Hindi or Punjabi or whatever?
PL
| |
| Ian Dalziel 2005-08-19, 4:12 pm |
| On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:50:10 -0500, Peter Lacey <lacey@mts.net> wrote:
>Ron wrote:
>
>
>
>For heaven's sake - give him or her credit for effort! How would you
>get on in Hindi or Punjabi or whatever?
>
The benefit of the doubt, you mean?
--
Ian
| |
| Howard Brazee 2005-08-19, 4:12 pm |
|
On 18-Aug-2005, Peter Lacey <lacey@mts.net> wrote:
> For heaven's sake - give him or her credit for effort! How would you
> get on in Hindi or Punjabi or whatever?
I don't know about him, but I know that if I were attempting to get on in Hindi
or Punjabi or whatever, I would want some feedback about my attempts of
communication.
| |
| Peter Lacey 2005-08-19, 4:12 pm |
| Howard Brazee wrote:
>
> On 18-Aug-2005, Peter Lacey <lacey@mts.net> wrote:
>
>
> I don't know about him, but I know that if I were attempting to get on in Hindi
> or Punjabi or whatever, I would want some feedback about my attempts of
> communication.
You'd certainly expect it to be polite, wouldn't you? Go back and read
the original:
"First, I don't know how they teach English over there but this drives
me
nuts! You do not have a "doubt", you have a "question". You doubt
something
that you think is untrue. You question something that you do not know.
You
do not know if a VSAM file can be a GDG, therefore you have a question.
If I told you a VSAM file has chocolate ice cream hidden in the index
you would doubt that it was the truth."
That doesn't have the tone of someone trying to be helpful - it sounds
like someone ranting at someone he detests.
More likely, if you were composing a message in some other language,
you'd have someone fluent on hand to help you.
PL
| |
| Howard Brazee 2005-08-19, 4:12 pm |
|
On 19-Aug-2005, Peter Lacey <lacey@mts.net> wrote:
>
> You'd certainly expect it to be polite, wouldn't you? Go back and read
> the original:
Yes.
> That doesn't have the tone of someone trying to be helpful - it sounds
> like someone ranting at someone he detests.
I'm not good at judging tone over this medium.
| |
| Pete Dashwood 2005-08-19, 6:55 pm |
|
"Peter Lacey" <lacey@mts.net> wrote in message
news:430601DC.12030EBF@mts.net...
> Howard Brazee wrote:
>
> You'd certainly expect it to be polite, wouldn't you? Go back and read
> the original:
>
Yes, politeness never goes amiss. But what level of politeness is it
reasonable to expect in a public internet forum? And whose definition of
'polite'? In some newsgroups, anything that isn't a flame is deemed
polite... :-)
> "First, I don't know how they teach English over there but this drives
> me
> nuts! You do not have a "doubt", you have a "question". You doubt
> something
> that you think is untrue. You question something that you do not know.
> You
> do not know if a VSAM file can be a GDG, therefore you have a question.
> If I told you a VSAM file has chocolate ice cream hidden in the index
> you would doubt that it was the truth."
>
> That doesn't have the tone of someone trying to be helpful - it sounds
> like someone ranting at someone he detests.
>
No, I disagree here (not about the rant, because that is certainly true, but
it is explicit and non-personal). He stated that he has a dislike of this
particular usage. He was up front about it and it wasn't personal against
Praveen. He further clarified in a subsequent post that he encounters it
frequently with English from the sub-continent. He is unhappy with the
teaching standards; many people can relate to that. I'm not happy with the
education system in NZ but it just hasn't diven me nuts yet. When it does,
I'll probably write something along the lines of what Ron wrote.
So you and I can get two quite different inferences and meaning from this
post. It really comes down to what Praveen got from it.
> More likely, if you were composing a message in some other language,
> you'd have someone fluent on hand to help you.
>
Man! I wish! I speak four languages and am currently learning a fifth
(Maori). Occasionally I need to write in one of these languages. I DON'T
have 'someone fluent on hand to help' me, but my friends in different
countries will correct my text if I ask them to. As I said in my original
post (you snipped it) I would not personally have taken Praveen to task on
this occasion, but I'm not being driven nuts by encountering this constant
'misuse' (I don't necessarily agree that it IS misuse, but I understand
Ron's position). The general etiquette I have encountered is that people
give help if it is requested or if the attempt is so bad that the meaning is
not understandable. (Fortunately, I am competent enough that this latter
does not usually apply.) I have always been glad of corrections and never
taken it as a personal affront. One friend in particular spent many hours
helping me pronounce German (oddly, the vowel sounds are very close to
Maori, and Germans generally are good at speaking Maori if they learn it),
another friend spent many hours helping me with Spanish grammar and
vocabulary. I have always reciprocated with help on English.
My experience is that people who have enough interest in a culture to learn
the language are not offended when their attempts are corrected. (It can be
tiresome if every sentence is corrected; at that point you'd probably hit
the books and tapes and not speak it until you had a bit more theory under
your belt...)
Pete.
| |
| Pete Dashwood 2005-08-19, 6:55 pm |
|
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:de50is$mv1$1@peabody.colorado.edu...
>
>
> On 19-Aug-2005, Peter Lacey <lacey@mts.net> wrote:
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
>
> I'm not good at judging tone over this medium.
>
Or perhaps you're actually very good at judging tone, Howard, but are less
ready to take offence than some posters here.
Pete.
| |
| docdwarf@panix.com 2005-08-19, 9:55 pm |
| In article <3mn23tF17obvsU1@individual.net>,
Pete Dashwood <dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:
[snip]
>Yes, politeness never goes amiss.
Even when it goes to a married woman or a man?
DD
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