Cobol - Editors

Author

Editors

Howard Brazee

2005-04-08, 8:55 am

I was thinking about an earlier thread. Most of my source code editing is done
with a mainframe editor. On IBM, that's usually TSO/SPF. I was wondering why
I like it better than some of my powerful PC editors.

I think it's because mainframe source code is on fixed length files. Its
editors are designed around this feature and make column and row type commands
easy. PC editors are designed around variable length files. What's easy and
what's hard depend on the environment.

Richard

2005-04-08, 8:55 am

> and make column and row type commands easy.

> PC editors are designed around variable length files.

_Some_ PC editors are designed around ..., _some_ make column and row
type commands easy.

> What's easy and what's hard depend on the environment.

No. What is easy and what is hard depends mostly on what you are used
to. I would probably find TSO/SPF frustratingly hard to use, error
prone and clunky. Whereas my 'fingers do the thinking' when I use the
editors my brain has been trained to use.

jce

2005-04-08, 8:55 pm

"Richard" <riplin@Azonic.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1112558253.560658.96240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> _Some_ PC editors are designed around ..., _some_ make column and row
> type commands easy.
Do you have an example of one that does excellent vertical blocking cut and
pastes that runs on Windows XP that is not overly expensive ? This is not
a DocDwarf *show* me evidence question, it's a, "I really want to know"
question.

>
> No. What is easy and what is hard depends mostly on what you are used
> to. I would probably find TSO/SPF frustratingly hard to use, error
> prone and clunky. Whereas my 'fingers do the thinking' when I use the
> editors my brain has been trained to use.
I always prefer my brain to do the thinking my fingers do the typing...

It's not just what is easy - I use different editors for different languages
based solely on the environment I am in.
I use ISPF for COBOL because I find I am more often doing COBOL type
functions - line copies, overlays (I do this a lot because I tend to like to
comment whole sections).

When I use C++, C# I used MS Visual Studio because it is integrated into a
very nicely organized IDE. It supports comments much easier with a "comment
selection"

I use Websphere / Eclipse for Java because I am used to the view structure.

In the latter two cases the integrated environment is more important than
the editor. I have SlickEdit but I have found that I don't use it (maybe
that _is_ the answer to my question above). My COBOL is also limited to
z/OS. Writing java code using ISPF is a crime.

A big thing for me is autocomplete - I am more than happy without auto
complete for COBOL and PL/I because I am used to the limited language
scope - however, I would never even _consider_ an editor for Java without
this function.

My biggest criticism of TSO ISPF is more based on the emulators......how
many occasions will I use someone elses machine and hit <END> and it deletes
to the end of the line and not just move to it......When did someone decide
that <END> means <DELETE TO THE END>?!?

JCE

Richard

2005-04-08, 8:55 pm

> excellent vertical blocking cut and pastes that runs on Windows XP
that is not overly expensive ?

Well I like TSE - The Semware Editor, www.semware.com. A testdrive is
available.

It can be set to do keymacros so that, eg, F9+P -> PERFORM and so on
for most keywords.

Frederico Fonseca

2005-04-08, 8:55 pm

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:46:58 GMT, "jce" <defaultuser@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>"Richard" <riplin@Azonic.co.nz> wrote in message
>news:1112558253.560658.96240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>Do you have an example of one that does excellent vertical blocking cut and
>pastes that runs on Windows XP that is not overly expensive ? This is not
>a DocDwarf *show* me evidence question, it's a, "I really want to know"
>question.
Probably not an option due to the lack of other things but gvim does
do vertical blocks up to a certain point.

Frederico Fonseca
ema il: frederico_fonseca at syssoft-int.com

William M. Klein

2005-04-08, 8:55 pm

Do any of the IBM mainframe "folks" have a screen shot of an ISPF screen with
HILITE COBOL
turned on - to show others that one CAN have "language sensitive" coloring in a
"mainframe" editor? I looked at the ISPF manuals online and couldn't find any
"pictures" of what this looks like (either with a 3270 terminal or PC emulator).

--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
"Richard Steiner" <rsteiner@visi.com> wrote in message
news:IEeVCpHpv65T092yn@visi.com...
> Here in comp.lang.cobol,
> "Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> spake unto us, saying:
>
>
> Well, besides cut and paste, terminal emulators generally
>
> - allow for terminal windows of arbitrary size (we were limited to
> 80-column and 132-column modes on the last Unisys terminal I used
> [SVT_1126]) while I have no such limit with my current emulator),
>
> - allow you to have many more terminal windows (not just limited to
> two PIDS or one in 132-column mode like the SVT was),
>
> - allow you to customize the colors used to display various UTS field
> attributes like protected, low-intensity, alpha-only, and so on, and
>
> - provide a certain amount of macro-key and scripting capability.
>
> That applies to the Unisys world (UTS emulation) and to the A-series
> world (T27 emulation), anyway. I can only assume emulators like Rumba
> have similar capabilities (I used MacIrma for the Mac and Rumba for
> Windows for many years, but I only used it to read PROFS/VM and do
> various things in TSO like Changeman and such, not to do real work, so
> I had little incentive to be creative).
>
> You might have noticed that the UEDIT screenshot I posted demonstrates
> context-sensitive code syntax highlighting using various colors, and
> it's slowly getting more sophisticated in that regard as I modify it.
>
> On a real UTS terminal, that would look like crap because I'm doing the
> syntax highlighting by scattering dozens of Uniscope FCCs like Blinking-
> Field and Low-Intensity-Blinking across the screen to differentiate the
> various types of characters. Your eyes would probably roll back into
> your head if you viewed that mess on a real Uniscope. :-)
>
> Wsing a PC-based UTS emulator I can make blinking text appear red on
> the terminal display and Low-Intensity Blinking text appear cyan, which
> is far more aesthetically pleasing than two shades of blinking green,
> and probably a lot less prone to possibly inducing seizures.
>
> Since UTS20/UTS40 terminals don't have real colors like the UTS60 does,
> that's the only way I've found to present such colors on the screen in
> a meaningful way. It seems to work quite well, though.
>
>
> See above. There can be a big difference once you learn what a given
> terminal emulator is capable of.
>
> --
> -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
> OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
> WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
> The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Richard Steiner

2005-04-09, 3:55 am

Here in comp.lang.cobol,
"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> spake unto us, saying:

>Do any of the IBM mainframe "folks" have a screen shot of an ISPF
>screen with
> HILITE COBOL
>turned on - to show others that one CAN have "language sensitive"
>coloring in a "mainframe" editor?

It obviously can be done, even on a mono screen with low/normal/high
intensity settings such highlighting would be useful.

I plan on adding UTS60 color support to my UEDIT variant in time; I've
only been working on it for a few months now, so I've not gotten that
far yet, and it isn't what I'm being paid to do so it's a spare time
thing.

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Tiberiu Gociu

2005-04-09, 3:55 pm

Hi all!

For windows I'm using "Multi Edit 9.0" and i'm 100% satisfied by his
performance. You can do almost every thing with the source code
including macros definitions.

For linux I'm using "gvim" that is a little more difficult to learn and
use, but you can do miracles, too! :)

Kind Regards,
Tiberiu Gociu.

djreid

2005-04-09, 3:55 pm

UltraEdit www.ultraedit.com

Lueko Willms

2005-04-09, 3:55 pm

.. On 04.04.05
wrote defaultuser@hotmail.com (jce)
on /COMP/LANG/COBOL
in m014e.16814$vd.2718@tornado.tampabay.rr.com
about Re: Editors

[color=darkred]
d> Do you have an example of one that does excellent vertical blocking
d> cut and pastes that runs on Windows XP that is not overly expensive ?

I am a satisfied user of Ultraedit: http://www.ultraedit.com

You have to register after a 45 day trial period (39.95 USD).

But in the cases where I have to write a COBOL program, I do use
the built-in editor of the Fujitsu IDE; it is not so nice, but ....

Yours,
Lüko Willms http://www.willms-edv.de
/--------- L.WILLMS@jpberlin.de -- Alle Rechte vorbehalten --

Der Verleger hat ihn in effigie vor sein Werk aufhängen lassen. -G.C.Lichtenberg

Howard Brazee

2005-04-09, 3:55 pm

On 4-Apr-2005, "Tiberiu Gociu" <tiberiu.gociu@gmail.com> wrote:

> For windows I'm using "Multi Edit 9.0" and i'm 100% satisfied by his
> performance. You can do almost every thing with the source code
> including macros definitions.

I had Multi-Edit from way before it became a Windows GUI, but have switched to
Ultra-Edit the last few years. One thing back in the DOS days I had was an
add-on to Multi-Edit for Paradox that was quite nice.

Howard Brazee

2005-04-09, 3:55 pm

On 3-Apr-2005, WilliamBrinkman@pobox.com wrote:

> Have you tried KEDIT on you PC?

Not recently.

Howard Brazee

2005-04-09, 3:55 pm

On 3-Apr-2005, "jce" <defaultuser@hotmail.com> wrote:

> My biggest criticism of TSO ISPF is more based on the emulators......how
> many occasions will I use someone elses machine and hit <END> and it deletes
> to the end of the line and not just move to it......When did someone decide
> that <END> means <DELETE TO THE END>?!?

I learned long ago to recommend that people think thrice before changing
key-stroke functions. If you use the standard defaults, people won't be
surprised when they use your computer.

Usually people define <END> that way because they didn't check to see that their
emulator defaulted to <CTL-END> to do that.

Donald Tees

2005-04-09, 3:55 pm

WilliamBrinkman@pobox.com wrote:
> Have you tried KEDIT on you PC?
>
> On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 19:38:06 GMT, "Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>

Yes. I thought it pretty basic, ok for the odd batch file but not good
enough for programming. I use Vedit, as a rule.

Donald

Jussi Jumppanen

2005-04-09, 3:55 pm

jce wrote:

> Do you have an example of one that does excellent vertical blocking
> cut and pastes that runs on Windows XP that is not overly expensive ?

The Zeus for Windows programmer's editor has line, block and CUA
marking modes:

http://www.zeusedit.com/features.html

Zeus is shareware, cost $35-00, and the shareware version runs
fully functional for 60 days.

Jussi Jumppanen

Richard Steiner

2005-04-09, 8:55 pm

Here in comp.lang.cobol,
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> spake unto us, saying:

>I think it's because mainframe source code is on fixed length files.

Interesting. That's also true in the Unisys A-series world, but not at
all in the Unisys 2200 world (where source files are just another text
file, although some of them have reserved element subtypes).

>Its editors are designed around this feature and make column and row
>type commands easy.

Could you give some examples? I've done some editing in TSO/ISPF (most
of it via an old document processing editor called DCF), but I've not
really found those editors to be particularly flexible. Do they still
use a fixed command region on the left side of the screen?

Then again, my editing background is CDC/UNIVAC/VAX/DOS, not IBM, so I
might've missed some things obvious to IBM types. :-)

I informally maintain a "fullscreen" text editor for the Unisys 2200
mainframe which takes advantage of various UTS terminal features to
display and manipulate the editing area, and it has a concept called an
"SOE command" (SOE = Start Of Entry) which allows commands to be input
at any point on the screen, and which return to the editor the X,Y
screen coordinates plus a command string -- quite useful for doing
visual blocking, etc.

To use SOE commands to define an arbitrary rectangle, only an >SB at
the upper left and a >EB at the lower right is needed to define the
region (where the ">" is a UTS SOE character). Line insertions and
deletions are done by moving the cursor to anywhere on a given line
and hitting a function key (F3 to insert, F4 to delete).

An example screenshot is here:

http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner/ueditblock.gif

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

David Essex

2005-04-10, 3:55 am

Howard Brazee wrote:
> I was thinking about an earlier thread.
> Most of my source code editing is done with a mainframe
> editor. On IBM, that's usually TSO/SPF.
> I was wondering why I like it better than some of my
> powerful PC editors.
>
> I think it's because mainframe source code is on fixed
> length files.
> Its editors are designed around this feature and make
> column and row type commands easy.
> PC editors are designed around variable length files.
> What's easy and what's hard depend on the environment.

Have you tried THE (1), a Xedit (VM/CMS), Kedit clone.

Available for the UN*X and Win32 platforms.

1) The Hessling Editor
http://hessling-editor.sourceforge.net/

Howard Brazee

2005-04-11, 3:55 am

On 3-Apr-2005, rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) wrote:

>
> Could you give some examples? I've done some editing in TSO/ISPF (most
> of it via an old document processing editor called DCF), but I've not
> really found those editors to be particularly flexible. Do they still
> use a fixed command region on the left side of the screen?

They do. When I open a file using the ISPF editor, there are line numbers on
the left. I can enter commands over the line numbers. I find this easier
than similar line type commands that I have found in other editors. I missed
this when I programmed on other mainframes and minis.

Column commands are about the same as in other editors. I can use the BOUNDS
command to set a range (I usually don't), or I can use column ranges in my
command line commands.

Where mainframe editors fall down is in cutting and pasting using the GUI. I
cannot cut & paste 50 lines using my mouse. But my fingers are usually on my
keyboard anyway.

A weird editing option was on the VAX. I've edited files and then aborted the
edit. Then I edited the file that kept all of my editing commands from that
first edit session. I could find a command and then duplicate it a bunch of
times. Then I would edit the aborted file with the option to recover what was
edited - and it would edit it with that duplicated command.

Howard Brazee

2005-04-11, 3:55 am

On 5-Apr-2005, rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) wrote:

> Sounds like fairly standard stuff. Useful, though, if you're on a real
> terminal and not an emulator (if anyone does that anymore).

What's the relevant difference between using a real terminal and an emulator?

Emulators work the same way, with the addition of being able to cut and paste.

Howard Brazee

2005-04-11, 3:55 am

On 5-Apr-2005, rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) wrote:

>
> I tend to use a mix of SOE commands and Windows cut-and-paste when I'm
> using UEDIT in a UTS emulator, and since I tend to have a fairly large
> terminal window (54 lines x 132 columns, I think) I could do a 50-line
> cut just by using the mouse. Not 60, though, unless I found a smaller
> readable font.

PC editors can paste as much as I want. With mainframe editors such pastes are
not mouse functions.

>
> I remember using EDT on the VAX in college, and it would seemingly log
> all commands and then reply them if you terminated you session and then
> recovered -- it was quite fun to watch the editor play back the last
> hour's worth of input. ;-)

That's what I discovered - then discovered I could edit and use.

Alain Reymond

2005-04-11, 3:55 pm

Howard Brazee a écrit :
> I was thinking about an earlier thread. Most of my source code editing is done
> with a mainframe editor. On IBM, that's usually TSO/SPF. I was wondering why
> I like it better than some of my powerful PC editors.
>
> I think it's because mainframe source code is on fixed length files. Its
> editors are designed around this feature and make column and row type commands
> easy. PC editors are designed around variable length files. What's easy and
> what's hard depend on the environment.

I have been using SlickEdit for years. A fantastic editor.
But I discovered jedit (www.jedit.org) a few months ago. It is an
impressive editor that works under Windows, Linux, Mac and some other
systems. It has a lot of plugins for version control, file comparison,
etc, etc.

Regards.

Alain Reymond

Jussi Jumppanen

2005-04-11, 3:55 pm

Richard Steiner

2005-04-11, 3:55 pm

Here in comp.lang.cobol,
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> spake unto us, saying:

>On 3-Apr-2005, rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) wrote:
>
>
>They do. When I open a file using the ISPF editor, there are line
>numbers on the left. I can enter commands over the line numbers.

Okay. The "official" Unisys 2200-series editor (@IPF) is similar when
used in its fullscreen mode, or it used to be (it's been several years
since I've used that one).

>I find this easier than similar line type commands that I have found in
>other editors. I missed this when I programmed on other mainframes
>and minis.

Well, the 2200 has (at least) two editors which do that sort of thing,
namely IPF and UEDIT (with Numbering mode on), although UEDIT will also
accept SOE commands in Numbering mode as well.

>Column commands are about the same as in other editors. I can use the
>BOUNDS command to set a range (I usually don't), or I can use column
>ranges in my command line commands.

Sounds like fairly standard stuff. Useful, though, if you're on a real
terminal and not an emulator (if anyone does that anymore).

>Where mainframe editors fall down is in cutting and pasting using the
>GUI. I cannot cut & paste 50 lines using my mouse. But my fingers
>are usually on my keyboard anyway.

I tend to use a mix of SOE commands and Windows cut-and-paste when I'm
using UEDIT in a UTS emulator, and since I tend to have a fairly large
terminal window (54 lines x 132 columns, I think) I could do a 50-line
cut just by using the mouse. Not 60, though, unless I found a smaller
readable font.

>A weird editing option was on the VAX. I've edited files and then
>aborted the edit. Then I edited the file that kept all of my editing
>commands from that first edit session. I could find a command and then
>duplicate it a bunch of times. Then I would edit the aborted file with
>the option to recover what was edited - and it would edit it with that
>duplicated command.

I remember using EDT on the VAX in college, and it would seemingly log
all commands and then reply them if you terminated you session and then
recovered -- it was quite fun to watch the editor play back the last
hour's worth of input. ;-)

UEDIT has a recovery mechanism, but it works differently -- it simply
saves the entire environment (all current settings, search strings,
etc., as well as all files and other editing blocks currently in the
buffer) and restores everything to that point in one swell foop.

It makes for a nice (if wasteful) UNDO command of sorts, too...

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Howard Brazee

2005-04-11, 8:55 pm

On 8-Apr-2005, "William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote:

> Do any of the IBM mainframe "folks" have a screen shot of an ISPF screen with
> HILITE COBOL
> turned on - to show others that one CAN have "language sensitive" coloring in
> a
> "mainframe" editor? I looked at the ISPF manuals online and couldn't find any
>
> "pictures" of what this looks like (either with a 3270 terminal or PC
> emulator).

I can't post one to here. Do you want a private e-mail?

Richard Steiner

2005-04-12, 3:55 am

Here in comp.lang.cobol,
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> spake unto us, saying:

>On 5-Apr-2005, rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) wrote:
>
>
>What's the relevant difference between using a real terminal and an
>emulator?

Well, besides cut and paste, terminal emulators generally

- allow for terminal windows of arbitrary size (we were limited to
80-column and 132-column modes on the last Unisys terminal I used
[SVT_1126]) while I have no such limit with my current emulator),

- allow you to have many more terminal windows (not just limited to
two PIDS or one in 132-column mode like the SVT was),

- allow you to customize the colors used to display various UTS field
attributes like protected, low-intensity, alpha-only, and so on, and

- provide a certain amount of macro-key and scripting capability.

That applies to the Unisys world (UTS emulation) and to the A-series
world (T27 emulation), anyway. I can only assume emulators like Rumba
have similar capabilities (I used MacIrma for the Mac and Rumba for
Windows for many years, but I only used it to read PROFS/VM and do
various things in TSO like Changeman and such, not to do real work, so
I had little incentive to be creative).

You might have noticed that the UEDIT screenshot I posted demonstrates
context-sensitive code syntax highlighting using various colors, and
it's slowly getting more sophisticated in that regard as I modify it.

On a real UTS terminal, that would look like crap because I'm doing the
syntax highlighting by scattering dozens of Uniscope FCCs like Blinking-
Field and Low-Intensity-Blinking across the screen to differentiate the
various types of characters. Your eyes would probably roll back into
your head if you viewed that mess on a real Uniscope. :-)

Wsing a PC-based UTS emulator I can make blinking text appear red on
the terminal display and Low-Intensity Blinking text appear cyan, which
is far more aesthetically pleasing than two shades of blinking green,
and probably a lot less prone to possibly inducing seizures.

Since UTS20/UTS40 terminals don't have real colors like the UTS60 does,
that's the only way I've found to present such colors on the screen in
a meaningful way. It seems to work quite well, though.

>Emulators work the same way, with the addition of being able to cut
>and paste.

See above. There can be a big difference once you learn what a given
terminal emulator is capable of.

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

William M. Klein

2005-04-12, 3:55 am

Richard Steiner

2005-04-12, 3:55 am

Richard Steiner

2005-04-12, 3:55 am

Here in comp.lang.cobol,
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> spake unto us, saying:

>I can't post one to here. Do you want a private e-mail?

Put it on a web or ftp site and post a URL -- that way we can all take
a look. I admit I'm curious myself (and besides, I'm fishing for new
feature ideas to add to my editor anyway <g> ).

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

William M. Klein

2005-04-12, 3:55 am

Check out:

http://home.comcast.net/~wmklein/DOX/ispf.bmp

(thank you, Don Leahy)

--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
"Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:d3ejdv$t67$1@peabody.colorado.edu...
>
> On 8-Apr-2005, "William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
> I can't post one to here. Do you want a private e-mail?

jce

2005-04-12, 3:55 am

.....pfffffzzz...brrrrrrrrrr...rrrrr..hachhhhh...hizzzzzzz...crackle.....

I'd like to make some comments on the code....

1) You don't need to do the PERFORM THRU....
2) Using numbers as part of your paragraph enforces a fake "system"
3) The comment provides no true benefit....
4) Strings should be externalized of in storage not hard coded inline

.....pfffffzzzzzzzzzzz....hizzzzzzz...crackle.....pop

Whoa..I got attacked by a case of the RW's there for a second ;-)

Joking aside.....I tried 3 times to post a binary attachment and failed...I
had another screen showing that this is actually an option for
COBOL/PLI/REXX/C370.
An option not demonstrated in the example is parentheses matching though it
has most of the other hilite options covered..

It's not as good as a full syntax editor, but it beats uniform color.

JCE

"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:24I6e.4120922$Zm5.651212@news.easynews.com...
> Check out:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~wmklein/DOX/ispf.bmp
>
> (thank you, Don Leahy)
>
> --
> Bill Klein
> wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
> "Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net> wrote in message
> news:d3ejdv$t67$1@peabody.colorado.edu...
>
>

Howard Brazee

2005-04-12, 3:55 pm

On 11-Apr-2005, rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) wrote:

>
> Put it on a web or ftp site and post a URL -- that way we can all take
> a look. I admit I'm curious myself (and besides, I'm fishing for new
> feature ideas to add to my editor anyway <g> ).

Tell me where to put it, and give me any passwords I might need to do so.

Howard Brazee

2005-04-12, 3:55 pm

On 11-Apr-2005, "jce" <defaultuser@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Joking aside.....I tried 3 times to post a binary attachment and failed...I
> had another screen showing that this is actually an option for
> COBOL/PLI/REXX/C370.
> An option not demonstrated in the example is parentheses matching though it
> has most of the other hilite options covered..
>
> It's not as good as a full syntax editor, but it beats uniform color.

It does show easily when a quote is missing (the quoted white extends forever).
Not as well, it shows non-matching parenthesis. (the parenthesis is purple
for me). And you can see misspelled keywords.

Richard Steiner

2005-04-13, 3:55 am

Here in comp.lang.cobol,
"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> spake unto us, saying:

> http://home.comcast.net/~wmklein/DOX/ispf.bmp

Interesting. Thanks. It's quite nice to see that the tools in the IBM
mainframe environment havn't kept completely still. :-)

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Alain Reymond

2005-04-14, 3:55 am

Don Leahy

2005-04-14, 3:55 am

"Richard Steiner" <rsteiner@visi.com> wrote in message
news:xSLXCpHpvy4d092yn@visi.com...
> Here in comp.lang.cobol,
> "William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> spake unto us, saying:
>
>
> Interesting. Thanks. It's quite nice to see that the tools in the IBM
> mainframe environment havn't kept completely still. :-)
>
Indeed they haven't. I wish I could say the same for some of my mainframe
colleagues, who use ISPF as if it were still 1982.

Just last month I showed someone this "new" language sensitive editing
feature and he almost fell out of his chair. He's just spent a couple of
hours chasing down a missing period that would have been obvious with
colourized source.

I didn't have the heart to tell him that this "new" feature has been around
for about 10 years. :-)

Joe Zitzelberger

2005-04-14, 3:55 pm

I have one located here "http://www.zitzelberger.net/ispf.jpg".

In article <scE5e.7608509$f47.1398500@news.easynews.com>,
"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote:

> Do any of the IBM mainframe "folks" have a screen shot of an ISPF screen with
> HILITE COBOL
> turned on - to show others that one CAN have "language sensitive" coloring in
> a
> "mainframe" editor? I looked at the ISPF manuals online and couldn't find
> any
> "pictures" of what this looks like (either with a 3270 terminal or PC
> emulator).
>
> --
> Bill Klein

Richard Steiner

2005-04-14, 3:55 pm

Richard Steiner

2005-04-15, 3:55 am

Here in comp.lang.cobol,
"Don Leahy" <leahydon@nospamplease.netscape.net> spake unto us, saying:

>"Richard Steiner" <rsteiner@visi.com> wrote in message
>news:xSLXCpHpvy4d092yn@visi.com...
>
>
>Indeed they haven't. I wish I could say the same for some of my mainframe
>colleagues, who use ISPF as if it were still 1982.

My boss still uses CTS (one of the older line editors) on the 2200.

There's nothing wrong with that, and he can be fairly quick with it,
but for me it's like stepping back in time because CTS is the editor
I learned how to use back when I was in college (either 1982 or 83).

People tend to be set in their ways, particularly when it comes to text
editing. I mean, I know Unix people who use vi and actually LIKE it!

:-) :-)

(For the record, I *am* a vi [or rather vim] fan -- just not on those
platforms where I can use something else. I usually use FTE under OS/2
and DOS, for example).

>Just last month I showed someone this "new" language sensitive editing
>feature and he almost fell out of his chair. He's just spent a couple
>of hours chasing down a missing period that would have been obvious
>with colourized source.

I mainly work with FORTRAN now, but missing punctuation and commented-
out codelines are the two main reasons why I started adding it to the
editor I'm working with in the first place. It's much easier to see
those little periods and commas when they're all bright red. :-)

>I didn't have the heart to tell him that this "new" feature has been
>around for about 10 years. :-)

I feel guilty for not adding some form of syntax highlighting to UEDIT
when I first started making my own modifications to it in early 1994,
but I had this whole other list of features I wanted to add and I did
them first (there were two parallel versions of the same editor that I
effectively merged). So the Unisys 2200 world is late to the party.

Hopefully my employer will let me release my changes into the general
Unisys community, though.

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

William M. Klein

2005-04-15, 8:55 am

jce

2005-04-15, 8:55 am

Howard Brazee

2005-04-15, 3:55 pm

Howard Brazee

2005-04-15, 3:55 pm

Lueko Willms

2005-04-15, 3:55 pm

.. On 14.04.05
wrote rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner)
on /COMP/LANG/COBOL
in HEyXCpHpvOeK092yn@visi.com
about Re: Editors

[color=darkred]

RS> My boss still uses CTS (one of the older line editors) on the 2200.

Some other stick to ED ...

CTS has some features which I miss in all those full-screen
editors, e.g. one can limit changes to certain column numbers, and one
can specify these columns dynamically, creating a pattern matching
command,

c 'good old'spanking new' *+10 ('this','editor') R=2 S

which would cause to change the first two occurences (R=2)of 'good
old' (with any number of blanks between the two words (S)) to
'spanking new' when they occur between 'this' and 'editor' in the next
10 lines (*+10)

RS> There's nothing wrong with that, and he can be fairly quick with it,
RS> but for me it's like stepping back in time because CTS is the editor
RS> I learned how to use back when I was in college (either 1982 or 83).

Once you master one tool, there has to be a compelling need to
change to another tool for basically the same task.

Yours,
Lüko Willms http://www.willms-edv.de
/--------- L.WILLMS@jpberlin.de -- Alle Rechte vorbehalten --

Diese ganze Lehre taugt zu nichts als darüber zu disputieren. -G.C.Lichtenberg

Richard

2005-04-15, 8:55 pm

> Once you master one tool, there has to be a compelling need to
> change to another tool for basically the same task.

Such as your peers pointing and snickering.

Richard Steiner

2005-04-15, 8:55 pm

Here in comp.lang.cobol,
l.willms@jpberlin.de (Lueko Willms) spake unto us, saying:

>RS> My boss still uses CTS (one of the older line editors) on the 2200.
>
> Some other stick to ED ...

One thing that's still true: ED macros are **FAST**. :-)

> CTS has some features which I miss in all those full-screen
>editors, e.g. one can limit changes to certain column numbers, and one
>can specify these columns dynamically, creating a pattern matching
>command,
>
> c 'good old'spanking new' *+10 ('this','editor') R=2 S

Yes, the fact that CTS has a decent scripting language is an advantage.

>RS> There's nothing wrong with that, and he can be fairly quick with it,
>RS> but for me it's like stepping back in time because CTS is the editor
>RS> I learned how to use back when I was in college (either 1982 or 83).
>
> Once you master one tool, there has to be a compelling need to
>change to another tool for basically the same task.

True. In my case, faster navigation and the ability to view and edit
multiple files concurrently trumped CTS macros.

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

LX-i

2005-04-16, 3:55 am

Richard Steiner wrote:
> Here in comp.lang.cobol,
> l.willms@jpberlin.de (Lueko Willms) spake unto us, saying:
>
>
>
>
> One thing that's still true: ED macros are **FAST**. :-)

What other editor can also be used to do a file transfer? :)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ daniel@thebelowdomain ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don Leahy

2005-04-16, 3:55 am

"LX-i" <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:ac1cd$42607d0e$45491f85$21664@KNOLO
GY.NET...
> Richard Steiner wrote:
>
> What other editor can also be used to do a file transfer? :)
>
ISPF Edit can. You can edit workstation files on the mainframe and save
them back on the workstation. All of the file transfers take place
automatically behind the scenes. :-)

Richard Steiner

2005-04-16, 8:55 am

Here in comp.lang.cobol, LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net>
spake unto us, saying:

>Richard Steiner wrote:
>
>
>What other editor can also be used to do a file transfer? :)

IPF has a DDP interface built into its COPY command.

Also, ER QECL$ lets UEDIT run just about any processor by effectively
shelling out and returning, so it's trivial to call DDPFJT seamlessly
from inside the editor. Or FTP. Or almost anything else.

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Richard Steiner

2005-04-16, 8:55 am

Here in comp.lang.cobol,
"Don Leahy" <leahydon@nospamplease.netscape.net> spake unto us, saying:

>"LX-i" <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:ac1cd$42607d0e$45491f85$21664@KNOLO
GY.NET...
>
>
>ISPF Edit can. You can edit workstation files on the mainframe and save
>them back on the workstation. All of the file transfers take place
>automatically behind the scenes. :-)

Slick. I had to write a couple of CALL macros to do that.

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Lueko Willms

2005-04-16, 8:55 am

.. On 15.04.05
wrote rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner)
on /COMP/LANG/COBOL
in WSEYCpHpv6oc092yn@visi.com
about Re: Editors

[color=darkred]

RS> Yes, the fact that CTS has a decent scripting language is an
RS> advantage.

Yes, but the above statement could be entered interactively. I used
the symbolic specification of columns quite often, I remember.

Yours,
Lüko Willms http://www.willms-edv.de
/--------- L.WILLMS@jpberlin.de -- Alle Rechte vorbehalten --

Eine ganze Milchstraße von Einfällen. -G.C.Lichtenberg

Donald Tees

2005-04-16, 3:55 pm

LX-i wrote:
> Richard Steiner wrote:
>
>
>
> What other editor can also be used to do a file transfer? :)
>
>

I've used at least a dozen that include FTP. I think it's actually more
common that not ... I haven't used one in twenty-five years that would
not work accross a network.

William M. Klein

2005-04-17, 3:55 am

jce

2005-04-17, 3:55 am

Joe Zitzelberger

2005-04-17, 8:55 am

LX-i

2005-04-18, 3:55 am

Donald Tees wrote:
> LX-i wrote:
>
>
> I've used at least a dozen that include FTP. I think it's actually more
> common that not ... I haven't used one in twenty-five years that would
> not work accross a network.

Not just to you - my comment was referencing "OS2200 Editor Upload" and
"Download". It's a peculiar way of transferring text files across the
Telnet (or UDP) connection you already have, versus relying on
"integrated FTP" or "SMB connections". I think the folks (or maybe just
"folk", in here!) with Unisys/Sperry/Univac experience understood what I
was talking about.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ daniel@thebelowdomain ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Howard Brazee

2005-04-18, 3:55 pm

On 15-Apr-2005, LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:

> What other editor can also be used to do a file transfer? :)

Ultra-Edit.

Alain Reymond

2005-04-18, 3:55 pm

LX-i a écrit :
> Richard Steiner wrote:
> What other editor can also be used to do a file transfer? :)

jEdit has a ftp plugin.

Regards.

Alain

LX-i

2005-04-19, 3:55 am

Alain Reymond wrote:
> LX-i a écrit :
>
>
>
> jEdit has a ftp plugin.

Dang... Add "over an existing UDP connection" to my question - that the
way OS2200 EDIT upload/download works...

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ daniel@thebelowdomain ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Howard Brazee

2005-04-23, 3:55 am

On 15-Apr-2005, LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:

> What other editor can also be used to do a file transfer? :)

Ultra-Edit.

Alain Reymond

2005-04-25, 8:55 am

LX-i a écrit :
> Richard Steiner wrote:
> What other editor can also be used to do a file transfer? :)

jEdit has a ftp plugin.

Regards.

Alain

Howard Brazee

2005-04-25, 8:55 am

On 15-Apr-2005, LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:

> What other editor can also be used to do a file transfer? :)

Ultra-Edit.

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