Cobol - Cobol's future - Microfocus, actually

Author

Cobol's future - Microfocus, actually

Michael Russell

2005-03-25, 8:55 pm

I've liked Microfocus Cobol for a long time now.
It's like a well-known & used workshop tool.

The way things seem to me, very few students learn Cobol
and the intake of new users is probably minimal.
The writing's been on the wall for a good while.

Considering the shift in policy by, say, Oracle in making their
products freely available - for no money - I hope Microfocus
take a good look at their evaluation of how best to trade.

I'd suggest, fwiw, that MF could adopt a free distribution along
the same lines: cut the initial charges and rely on support and
maintenance.

Perhaps the short-to-medium term 'sales' wouldn't dazzle the world,
however, it may well recruit more _users_ of their Cobol.
It would also mean sharpening up their strategy & will for survival.
Without change, I fear they will simply wither on the vine.

Difficult to sell to the bean-counters, though.

Regards

Michael

Kellie Fitton

2005-03-25, 8:55 pm

They used to allow free distribution of the runtime system on
differernt machines
for the Net Express compiler, I think version 2.0 and 3.0 for windows
platform, am
not sure why they had a change of heart with version 4.0, though. I
wonder how
they feel about Fujitsu's free 32-bit cobol compilers (students
version), when they
have a Net Express version that's geared toward students for about
$99.00 USD.

personally, I think the Net Express cobol compiler's much superior than
Fujitsu's
cobol compiler, also the IDE is much easier to navigate and the runtime
execution
is obviously faster, especially when I use the compilation directive
align"8", which
optimizes the machine code and allows for compatibility with 64-bit
versions.

James J. Gavan

2005-03-25, 8:55 pm

Michael Russell wrote:
> I've liked Microfocus Cobol for a long time now.
> It's like a well-known & used workshop tool.
>
> The way things seem to me, very few students learn Cobol
> and the intake of new users is probably minimal.
> The writing's been on the wall for a good while.
>
> Considering the shift in policy by, say, Oracle in making their
> products freely available - for no money - I hope Microfocus
> take a good look at their evaluation of how best to trade.
>
> I'd suggest, fwiw, that MF could adopt a free distribution along
> the same lines: cut the initial charges and rely on support and
> maintenance.
>
> Perhaps the short-to-medium term 'sales' wouldn't dazzle the world,
> however, it may well recruit more _users_ of their Cobol.
> It would also mean sharpening up their strategy & will for survival.
> Without change, I fear they will simply wither on the vine.
>
> Difficult to sell to the bean-counters, though.

Having started my civilian career as a bean-counter, like it or not the
bean counters do have some input :-) "What's your proposed selling price
per unit, how many units do you speculate you will sell ?". Out comes
the abacus. "Hell ! That wont even cover monthly expenses !". And bear
in mind they (M/F) are now privately owned from the West Indies.

Did you ever take a look at the beta of VISOC which was the precursor to
Net Express ? Great product, identical to the N/E IDE, the latter having
additional whistles and bells and new items added to the Master Menu.

I had no personal problems with VISOC - except - no Dailog System,
(which I never used anyway), no Report Writer, (and which PC developer
uses R/W ?). Ahhh.... It handles Windows; GUIs - what are those and just
to make it completely clear the GUIs are coupled with OO. What
'Orientation', what 'Objects' ? An entirely new world to COBOL
programmers without texts to comprehend - and even to-day there are not
readily available texts. Arranga/Coyle are out of print, and have
hopped, skipped and jumped leaving the COBOL world behind, leaving only
Will Price. He moved ahead covering the Forms (Web) module in his second
book, produced the book on using dotNet - which even he writes,
superficially covers OO which was much more detailed in Arranga/Coyle
and his own first book, 'Elements of OO Programming'.

Although I'm guessing a large number took up free copies of the beta, it
BOMBED. The group of DOS developers using Dialog System, probably gave
VISOC a big miss, waiting for Net Express, when Dialog System was
re-introduced. As you can see from the Micro Focus Forum, (got to stop
calling it by its old name 'Answer Exchange'), most of the emphasis is
on using Dialog System - developers still attempting as much as possible
to avoid getting hooked into OO. Then of course there are many getting
into Webbing.

I can assure you that what I write currently in N/E 3.1., with the
exception of the ESQL Assistant, OO-wise, would run on VISOC.

I'm quite certain the Micro Focus team have given consideration to all
the suggestions you have made - and where their minds are at, I have
absolutely no idea.

I agree price is an obstacle - but even at $100 US not bad for the full
University Edition product, at the time of issue. Suppose their initial
price, full product was $500, then couple that with an annual $500
maintenance which also gives you access to updates/fixpacks. Would you
want to shell out $500 per year, if you aren't actually selling anything.

Taking those numbers above, the bean-counters still have to do their
sums. Initial buy - 'n' x $500, plus for each year maintenance 'n' x
$500. Plus how many years have we got each of 'n's' hooked into to
continue paying the annual $500 maintenance. Again the overall
projection might indicate that estimated income still doesn't negate
annual expenses.

That's twice you've mentioned Oracle as a freebie. Is that their
complete product range, or is it selective ? Worth bearing in mind
Oracle has a much wider market, a DB which is not tied into one specific
language/vendor.

Frankly all the PC vendors are in the same boat. It's a couple of years
back now but the CEO of Liant, (RM/COBOL), jumped in here for a while to
explain Liant's position, There's no easy solution where vendors are
concerned; in the main, they are dependent upon selling to individual
developers, although there are small software houses where the 'price
pain' can be reluctantly swallowed.

Please let me know when you find a freebie as good as Net Express - I
want a copy !!!

Jimmy

James J. Gavan

2005-03-25, 8:55 pm

Kellie Fitton wrote:
> They used to allow free distribution of the runtime system on
> differernt machines
> for the Net Express compiler, I think version 2.0 and 3.0 for windows
> platform, am
> not sure why they had a change of heart with version 4.0, though. I
> wonder how
> they feel about Fujitsu's free 32-bit cobol compilers (students
> version), when they
> have a Net Express version that's geared toward students for about
> $99.00 USD.
>
> personally, I think the Net Express cobol compiler's much superior than
> Fujitsu's
> cobol compiler, also the IDE is much easier to navigate and the runtime
> execution
> is obviously faster, especially when I use the compilation directive
> align"8", which
> optimizes the machine code and allows for compatibility with 64-bit
> versions.
>
Kellie,

I think it's a little bit more fuzzy than you suggest. I haven't
distributed anything in a long while. Could be wrong, but if you have
N/E V 3.1 with fixpacks, but PRIOR to SP1 (Service Pack 1) - then you
are still in the free runtime game. Gets even fuzzier when I think about
it. What I've just described, Micro Focus allows for with an 'amnesty'
clause, providing your particular piece of software doesn't sell for
more than $1,000 (could be wrong again).

Short answer is - if you are slap bang up to-date then there is a
runtime distribution fee - and a couple of queries I've seen asking - it
is not bloody cheap !

Jimmy

Kellie Fitton

2005-03-26, 3:55 am

Jimmy,

What Micro Focus charges for the distributed runtime modules is not
expensive, the
problem with their policy though is that they want the customer to
purchase a minimum
of TEN licenses, for each time they need a license for a new machine. I
think the price
for a pack of TEN is about $1,100.00 USD. I think they should make the
minimum only
two per pack though, this way they can increase the circle of Cobol,
and mabe capture
more market share than acuCobol, Fijitsu and Liant as well. Regards.

Kellie.

James J. Gavan

2005-03-26, 3:55 am

Kellie Fitton wrote:
> Jimmy,
>
> What Micro Focus charges for the distributed runtime modules is not
> expensive, the
> problem with their policy though is that they want the customer to
> purchase a minimum
> of TEN licenses, for each time they need a license for a new machine. I
> think the price
> for a pack of TEN is about $1,100.00 USD. I think they should make the
> minimum only
> two per pack though, this way they can increase the circle of Cobol,
> and mabe capture
> more market share than acuCobol, Fijitsu and Liant as well. Regards.

Kellie,

OK that makes sense. Although not au fait with current pricing, you can
see why in the back of my mind I was thinking how much you had to shell
out up front. Now here's the problem; if and when I distribute, I'd want
it on a site for prospective users to take a look - then if interested,
we can get serious about runtime fees. If I make a good buck, then I
can't grumble too much at M/F making a buck too - I just include it in
my overall price.

On a personal basis they can be flexible, once they know the situation.
I recall somebody saying if I produce a small 'gizmo' retailing at $50,
what's the score ? Don't recall the answer. I think there was a
follow-up to accommodate the query.

Jimmy

Michael Russell

2005-03-26, 3:55 pm

James J. Gavan wrote:

> That's twice you've mentioned Oracle as a freebie. Is that their
> complete product range, or is it selective ? Worth bearing in mind
> Oracle has a much wider market, a DB which is not tied into one
> specific language/vendor.
>
> Please let me know when you find a freebie as good as Net Express - I
> want a copy !!!
>
> Jimmy

Jimmy,

All of Oracle's databases are free to download (9i to 10g, lots of
platforms). They charge for maintenance (fixes) & support.
Sun's Solaris is also free. I think Sybase may be, too. There must be
others, but I haven't looked.

MF's problem is, I think, a shrinking market place (or dwindling number
of customers). They perhaps see it as inevitable that Cobol will die
off. Everything dies off; there's no virtue in sitting around until it
does: better get on with business!

They have my best wishes - it's a tough situation to be in - I hope they
out-tough it!

Regards

Michael

Thane

2005-03-30, 8:55 am

Oracle also charges HEFTY per connected user fees (or high site license
fees for unlimited users). They also charge different license fees per
processor.

James J. Gavan

2005-03-30, 8:55 am

Thane wrote:
> Oracle also charges HEFTY per connected user fees (or high site license
> fees for unlimited users). They also charge different license fees per
> processor.
>
Thank you ! Always nice to get a "clearer" story.

Jimmy

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