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Managers, Contracting, and other things that I am happy to avoid <G>
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| William M. Klein 2005-09-18, 6:55 pm |
| As a follow-on to the "Management wars" thread, I thought I would start another
one (with my PERSONAL view).
As most readers of this newsgroup know, I am on "long-term disability" and have
(happily) not had to "work for a living" for about a decade now. HOWEVER, I did
work (as an employee) in
- Application Programming
- IT (mostly programming and IMS and CICS) training
- Systems programming
- Product Management (for IBM mainframe and PC development companies)
- Documentation
- etc.
I also spent a little over one year (early 80's) as an employee of a
"contracting" company (i.e, not an "independent contractor" but working on
"contracts") This was doing IMS, CICS, ADF, and other "IBM mainframe
programming and analysis" - and a little training.
Although it seems to me that MOST of the (usual) posters to this newsgroup are
"happy" (or relatively happy) "independent contractors, this is NOT something I
would ever do again (contracting, independent or working for a
contracting/consulting firm) - even if I *had* to go back to making a living.
From my (limited) experiences, the BEST that a contractor could hope for was
getting into a shop that was understaffed. What I *usually* found (and maybe
this was because of my experience - and charge rate) was project where some
manager (remember them) usually in "senior management" had made some TOTALLY
unrealistic commitment to some equally unrealistic project (and deadline). In
addition to the "usual office politics" (that I was separated from participating
in - but still subject o the results of), I usually experienced "low morale" -
both from employees and contractors - because they "knew" that what was
expected/desired of them was simply NOT possible.
Yes, the pay was good (and working for a consulting firm, I actually had
benefits and was paid for "time on the beach") but I still found the general
atmosphere and ultimate failure (not success) rate to be too depressing to make
me "want to go into work each day".
I know that (like the thread on "managers") this is something that comes up
occasionally within C.L.C, but I thought that I would start a new thread - just
in case others wanted to comment. I am CERTAIN that many of "your" experiences
have differed - or otherwise, there wouldn't be so many of you who CONTINUE to
be contractors.
--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
| |
| Pete Dashwood 2005-09-18, 9:55 pm |
|
"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:%bmXe.78098$R83.35802@fe04.news.easynews.com...
> As a follow-on to the "Management wars" thread, I thought I would start
> another one (with my PERSONAL view).
>
> As most readers of this newsgroup know, I am on "long-term disability" and
> have (happily) not had to "work for a living" for about a decade now.
> HOWEVER, I did work (as an employee) in
> - Application Programming
> - IT (mostly programming and IMS and CICS) training
> - Systems programming
> - Product Management (for IBM mainframe and PC development companies)
> - Documentation
> - etc.
>
> I also spent a little over one year (early 80's) as an employee of a
> "contracting" company (i.e, not an "independent contractor" but working on
> "contracts") This was doing IMS, CICS, ADF, and other "IBM mainframe
> programming and analysis" - and a little training.
>
Early 80s were the 'boom years' of mainframe programming; PCs were just
becoming widespread and the general public were virtually computer
illiterate. This was a very good time to be contracting. However, it seems
from the above that someone else was getting the cream off your efforts,
Bill.
> Although it seems to me that MOST of the (usual) posters to this newsgroup
> are "happy" (or relatively happy) "independent contractors, this is NOT
> something I would ever do again (contracting, independent or working for a
> contracting/consulting firm) - even if I *had* to go back to making a
> living.
>
I have been an "independent contractor" for the last 35 years. Obviously, I
must enjoy it, and I've been successful at it. I have been offered the
choice of permanent or contract on many occasions; I always choose
contract...
BUT, it is a personal choice. I don't think people who opt for permanent
employment are "wrong".
Here's why I choose to be a contractor:
1. It means a wide variety of environments and cultures. This multiplies the
learning and growing experience.
2. I like to work when I want to and not work when I don't want to. A
permanent career does not facilitate that.
3. Being independent means I can avoid most of the corporate politics;
people are not threatened by my success because they know I'll be gone at
the end of the project. (I have encountered one or two exceptions to this,
and had to take them out for a private chat and explain that I had no
aspirations within their company and was not a threat to them. (Some people
are always looking for war...))
4. I have never believed in the "security" of permanent employment. There
are no "jobs for life" (at least, there aren't on terms which I would find
acceptable, and even if there were, I wouldn't want to be in the same
corporation for the duration), and I have seen very loyal corporate
employees, who have dedicated many years to the company, dropped
remorselessly when it suited the company. (The only "upside" I can see to
this is that it shakes them up and raises their "necessity level". Without
exception, the people I am talking about went on to bigger and better
things. Very often, when one door closes another door opens...)
5. I don't have children and enjoy mobility. (If I had kids, I would
reconsider the options, given that kids need some stability for schooling
etc.)
6. The money is better; but the paid holidays and sick leave et al are not
there, so, if you really calculated it out, it is probably marginal,
moneywise.
The most important reason is: It gives me freedom. I can go where I want,
and work where I want, when I want.
Obviously, the randomity of this existence is not for everybody....
> From my (limited) experiences, the BEST that a contractor could hope for
> was getting into a shop that was understaffed. What I *usually* found
> (and maybe this was because of my experience - and charge rate) was
> project where some manager (remember them) usually in "senior management"
> had made some TOTALLY unrealistic commitment to some equally unrealistic
> project (and deadline). In addition to the "usual office politics" (that
> I was separated from participating in - but still subject o the results
> of), I usually experienced "low morale" - both from employees and
> contractors - because they "knew" that what was expected/desired of them
> was simply NOT possible.
>
I LOVE shops like that. :-) And, yes, I have worked in a number of them.
Isn't it funny that although "everybody knew" they could not achieve the
unrealistic targets, nobody spoke up...? So when the over-enthusiastic
manager set these unrealistic deadlines, people who are supposed to be
professional, never said '"No, you cannot achieve that because of ...(yada
yada yada), but we probably COULD do this while you look at other
strategies..."
Maybe it's more fun to wallow in the misery of inevitable failure; I don't
know, I've never done it...
This is what happens when you encourage the 'us' and 'them' culture; "hey,
it's not our problem, he's the manager...let him fall over, that's what he
gets paid for..."
> Yes, the pay was good (and working for a consulting firm, I actually had
> benefits and was paid for "time on the beach") but I still found the
> general atmosphere and ultimate failure (not success) rate to be too
> depressing to make me "want to go into work each day".
>
If you are working on the line as a grunt programmer, it can be pretty
demotivating. But you won't be there indefinitely. You can still make a
difference with your personal attitude and refusal to be brought down by the
doom and gloom.Complete the tasks you are given on time and cheerfully. Have
an opinion but don't necessarily give it until it can make a difference.
I found out recently that someone I worked with had been discussing my time
in their shop and said I had a 'can do' attitude, which he had been
sceptical about at first, but was later inspired by. I have never thought
about my own attitude in that way. (Sometimes it is revealing to see how
others view us...). I just see challenges and love to pull technical rabbits
out of hats. That is the imaginative part of being a programmer.
I covered all of this in the post on Principles in the "Management Wars"
thread. Apply those principles and your workplace will get better.
> I know that (like the thread on "managers") this is something that comes
> up occasionally within C.L.C, but I thought that I would start a new
> thread - just in case others wanted to comment. I am CERTAIN that many of
> "your" experiences have differed - or otherwise, there wouldn't be so many
> of you who CONTINUE to be contractors.
>
Actually, Bill, much of my experience matches what you described above. It's
just that I ENJOY it when things are tough; it comes down to attitude and
the satisfaction you derive from solving difficulties...
Why would you do an easy crossword when you can do a cryptic one :-)?
Final anecdote which may demonstrate how growing up in a young and rugged
country breeds attitude...
(first posted in this group Dec 14th, 2003 and slightly modified here...)
Many years ago, before my body was wrecked by age and a self indulgent
lifestyle, I used to climb mountains. (We have so much land in NZ we pile it
up in heaps...)
Hanging on to a rock face by your fingernails is excellent practice for
handling IT deadlines, but I didn't know that at the time :-)
Anyway, the guy who was my climbing teacher was one of the wild breed of
Kiwis who live ONLY for mountains. He belonged to the same alpine club as
Edmund
Hillary and was of similar disposition.
On one occasion we were working our way up a ridge on Taranaki (Mt. Egmont,
8260 feet...believe me I have counted every one of them several
times...), when we came to a sheer outcrop of rock called "Humphrey's
Castle". Noticing there was a well worn path around this obstacle, and not
being entirely stupid, I started to walk around it. Bob, my teacher, pulled
me up and said: "Whered'ja think yer goin'?". I replied that there was an
established path around it and it made sense to take the low risk approach.
He looked at me with piercing blue eyes that showed just the faintest hint
of scorn, and said: "Peter, let's pretend this is the ONLY way..." To my
surprise we scaled it, and I was rewarded with a smile from Bob for my
efforts, and a sandwich on the top of it. The view was worth the climb, and
the lesson has never been forgotten over the ensuing years.
To this day, whenever I hear the phrase: "the only way..." I think about a
summer afternoon sitting on Humphries Castle gazing down a sheer rock face
several thousand feet into green valleys below, and realise that "the only
way" is NOT the only way; it is the only way we can think of at the moment,
and sometimes, the hard way is the most rewarding.
Pete.
| |
| James Johnson 2005-10-07, 9:55 pm |
| On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:35:25 +1200, "Pete Dashwood" <dashwood@enternet.co.nz>
wrote:
>
>"William M. Klein" <wmklein@nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:%bmXe.78098$R83.35802@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>Early 80s were the 'boom years' of mainframe programming; PCs were just
>becoming widespread and the general public were virtually computer
>illiterate. This was a very good time to be contracting. However, it seems
>from the above that someone else was getting the cream off your efforts,
>Bill.
>
>
>I have been an "independent contractor" for the last 35 years. Obviously, I
>must enjoy it, and I've been successful at it. I have been offered the
>choice of permanent or contract on many occasions; I always choose
>contract...
>
>BUT, it is a personal choice. I don't think people who opt for permanent
>employment are "wrong".
>
>Here's why I choose to be a contractor:
>
>1. It means a wide variety of environments and cultures. This multiplies the
>learning and growing experience.
>2. I like to work when I want to and not work when I don't want to. A
>permanent career does not facilitate that.
>3. Being independent means I can avoid most of the corporate politics;
>people are not threatened by my success because they know I'll be gone at
>the end of the project. (I have encountered one or two exceptions to this,
>and had to take them out for a private chat and explain that I had no
>aspirations within their company and was not a threat to them. (Some people
>are always looking for war...))
>4. I have never believed in the "security" of permanent employment. There
>are no "jobs for life" (at least, there aren't on terms which I would find
>acceptable, and even if there were, I wouldn't want to be in the same
>corporation for the duration), and I have seen very loyal corporate
>employees, who have dedicated many years to the company, dropped
>remorselessly when it suited the company. (The only "upside" I can see to
>this is that it shakes them up and raises their "necessity level". Without
>exception, the people I am talking about went on to bigger and better
>things. Very often, when one door closes another door opens...)
>5. I don't have children and enjoy mobility. (If I had kids, I would
>reconsider the options, given that kids need some stability for schooling
>etc.)
>6. The money is better; but the paid holidays and sick leave et al are not
>there, so, if you really calculated it out, it is probably marginal,
>moneywise.
>
>The most important reason is: It gives me freedom. I can go where I want,
>and work where I want, when I want.
>
>Obviously, the randomity of this existence is not for everybody....
>
>
>I LOVE shops like that. :-) And, yes, I have worked in a number of them.
>
>Isn't it funny that although "everybody knew" they could not achieve the
>unrealistic targets, nobody spoke up...? So when the over-enthusiastic
>manager set these unrealistic deadlines, people who are supposed to be
>professional, never said '"No, you cannot achieve that because of ...(yada
>yada yada), but we probably COULD do this while you look at other
>strategies..."
>
I have, had a manager schedule a w and make a commitment to meet it, when my
best estimate was 6-9 months to do what they wanted (converting a half a
million lines of Unysis Mapper code and ECL driving batch processes to Unix
Mapper code calling shell scripts driving batch process with a relational
database).
In the USA management has a shoot the messenger mentality. Even if you are
correct you are labeled as "not a team player" and/or a "chronic malcontent" for
disagreeing with management.
In the above example it took four and a half months of 80 hour ws to
accomplish. The manager got a promotion and a transfer for the successful
project and is now screwing up someone else's life. I was fortunate enough that
his replacement recognized what an incompetent he was and was very appreciative
to me for what I accomplished, one of the few exceptions to the shoot the
messenger philosophy that I have experienced. I am still at that shop because
the management respects and values me. Unfortunately the bean counters have
prevented promotions and raises in this area because the system is scheduled for
retirement in a few years (every year the date is moved back a year).
Right now I am going for an accounting degree and am planning to switch careers.
Barring a miracle, the employment situation for business programmers is poor in
the locale, and I have no desire to move (elderly in-laws in poor health that
need frequent help, wife with an established career in this area, a home that is
almost paid off, and an area where I like to live).
There are much more employment opportunities in the accounting field here and I
hope my IT experience will help.
JJ
>Maybe it's more fun to wallow in the misery of inevitable failure; I don't
>know, I've never done it...
>
>This is what happens when you encourage the 'us' and 'them' culture; "hey,
>it's not our problem, he's the manager...let him fall over, that's what he
>gets paid for..."
>
>
>If you are working on the line as a grunt programmer, it can be pretty
>demotivating. But you won't be there indefinitely. You can still make a
>difference with your personal attitude and refusal to be brought down by the
>doom and gloom.Complete the tasks you are given on time and cheerfully. Have
>an opinion but don't necessarily give it until it can make a difference.
>
>I found out recently that someone I worked with had been discussing my time
>in their shop and said I had a 'can do' attitude, which he had been
>sceptical about at first, but was later inspired by. I have never thought
>about my own attitude in that way. (Sometimes it is revealing to see how
>others view us...). I just see challenges and love to pull technical rabbits
>out of hats. That is the imaginative part of being a programmer.
>
>I covered all of this in the post on Principles in the "Management Wars"
>thread. Apply those principles and your workplace will get better.
>
>Actually, Bill, much of my experience matches what you described above. It's
>just that I ENJOY it when things are tough; it comes down to attitude and
>the satisfaction you derive from solving difficulties...
>
>Why would you do an easy crossword when you can do a cryptic one :-)?
>
>Final anecdote which may demonstrate how growing up in a young and rugged
>country breeds attitude...
>(first posted in this group Dec 14th, 2003 and slightly modified here...)
>
>Many years ago, before my body was wrecked by age and a self indulgent
>lifestyle, I used to climb mountains. (We have so much land in NZ we pile it
>up in heaps...)
>
>Hanging on to a rock face by your fingernails is excellent practice for
>handling IT deadlines, but I didn't know that at the time :-)
>
>Anyway, the guy who was my climbing teacher was one of the wild breed of
>Kiwis who live ONLY for mountains. He belonged to the same alpine club as
>Edmund
>Hillary and was of similar disposition.
>
>On one occasion we were working our way up a ridge on Taranaki (Mt. Egmont,
>8260 feet...believe me I have counted every one of them several
>times...), when we came to a sheer outcrop of rock called "Humphrey's
>Castle". Noticing there was a well worn path around this obstacle, and not
>being entirely stupid, I started to walk around it. Bob, my teacher, pulled
>me up and said: "Whered'ja think yer goin'?". I replied that there was an
>established path around it and it made sense to take the low risk approach.
>
>He looked at me with piercing blue eyes that showed just the faintest hint
>of scorn, and said: "Peter, let's pretend this is the ONLY way..." To my
>surprise we scaled it, and I was rewarded with a smile from Bob for my
>efforts, and a sandwich on the top of it. The view was worth the climb, and
>the lesson has never been forgotten over the ensuing years.
>
>To this day, whenever I hear the phrase: "the only way..." I think about a
>summer afternoon sitting on Humphries Castle gazing down a sheer rock face
>several thousand feet into green valleys below, and realise that "the only
>way" is NOT the only way; it is the only way we can think of at the moment,
>and sometimes, the hard way is the most rewarding.
>
>Pete.
>
James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply
| |
| Jeff York 2005-10-08, 7:55 am |
| James Johnson <saildot.maryland@verizon.net> wrote:
>I have, had a manager schedule a w and make a commitment to meet it, when my
>best estimate was 6-9 months to do what they wanted ...
An "IBM Man-Year", "730 blokes trying to get something finished
before lunch". :-)
--
Jeff. Ironbridge, Shrops, U.K.
jeff@xjackfieldx.org (remove the x..x round jackfield for return address)
and don't bother with ralf4, it's a spamtrap and I never go there.. :)
.... "There are few hours in life more agreeable
than the hour dedicated to the ceremony
known as afternoon tea.."
Henry James, (1843 - 1916).
| |
|
| In article <kl1ek1lraqeh600d1qtr8f0dehvjee0bhc@4ax.com>,
James Johnson <saildot.maryland@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:35:25 +1200, "Pete Dashwood" <dashwood@enternet.co.nz>
>wrote:
[snip]
>I have, had a manager schedule a w and make a commitment to meet it, when my
>best estimate was 6-9 months to do what they wanted (converting a half a
>million lines of Unysis Mapper code and ECL driving batch processes to Unix
>Mapper code calling shell scripts driving batch process with a relational
>database).
>In the USA management has a shoot the messenger mentality. Even if you are
>correct you are labeled as "not a team player" and/or a "chronic malcontent" for
>disagreeing with management.
Not having been 'everywhere' the veracity inherent in my saying 'This is
true/not true everywhere' would be suspect... but this has been,
frequently, my experience.
Years ago, when I was younger and more brash, I would often be accused of
having a 'bad attitude'. My response would be along the lines of 'Bad
attitude? If all that you have to notice is the quality of my attitude
then my *work* must be *very* good... because Bad Work gets noticed first,
right?'
Along a similar line... in many places I've contracted any suggestion that
is not precisely in line with That Which Has Gone On Before is met with a
smirk and 'Well, that's a good idea but it can't be implemented... Things
Are Different Here, you know.' Once, during a small team meeting I
prefaced a suggestion with 'I've noticed, over the years, that any
mealy-mouthed, brain-dead, worthless excuse for a waste of salary who's
more interested in marking time towards pension than anything else can
meet a suggestion with 'Oh, we can't do that because...' ... and that it
takes a Decent, Thoughtful Individual to say 'We can make that work if
we...'. Now, *just this once*, I don't want to hear 'We can't do that
because...' ... just for the hell of it, just as a thought experiment,
just to waste the time until lunch... let's try starting each sentence
with 'What I need to do to make this work is...'.'
I then offered my suggestion... and the tech lead, the guy who called the
meeting, said 'I really don't think we need to consider that right now,
let's come back to it another time.'
>
>In the above example it took four and a half months of 80 hour ws to
>accomplish. The manager got a promotion and a transfer for the successful
>project and is now screwing up someone else's life.
Notice how the organisation rewards certain kinds of behavior... and
remember how 'a fish rots from the head'.
>I was fortunate enough that
>his replacement recognized what an incompetent he was and was very appreciative
>to me for what I accomplished, one of the few exceptions to the shoot the
>messenger philosophy that I have experienced. I am still at that shop because
>the management respects and values me. Unfortunately the bean counters have
>prevented promotions and raises in this area because the system is scheduled for
>retirement in a few years (every year the date is moved back a year).
See above abour rewarding behaviors. In both cases moving deadlines is
seen as something acceptable.
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