Home > Archive > Cobol > January 2005 > OT: fitness tests (was *Hate* When I Do This!)
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OT: fitness tests (was *Hate* When I Do This!)
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| Robert Wagner 2005-01-18, 3:55 am |
| On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:30:06 +0000, Jeff York <ralf4@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
[color=darkred]
>I find that quite frightening.. Mainly because I'm 55 years old, BMI
>of around 25, I don't consider myself very fit - but could do that
>easily. One would have thought that fit young men, especially
>Marines, would do it in not much more than half that time..
Qualifying time for 5,000 meters (3.1 miles) in the 2004 Olympics was
just under 14 minutes. Below five minutes per mile is difficult even
for track stars. The best female runners simply can't do it; their
best times are over 15 minutes.
If Marines made the test too difficult, they'd wash out technicians,
office workers and officers. They don't want a double standard, so
they use one everyone can pass. BTW, it's age-adjusted; for the oldest
(>40?), the requirement is 33 minutes.
>
>That's more like it! :-) Mind you, I think that the SAS are expected
>to do something similar but carrying 60lb Bergens as well.. (But
>they're not human!) :-)
The SAS test requires them to cover 40 miles in mountains in 20 hours
with a 55 pound Bergen (backpack). We (Special Ops, not infantry)
covered 40 miles in less than half that time, but we never carried
more then 20 pounds, including weapon. On 1-2 day trips, we carried
nothing but a light weapon, map, compass and silk hammock stuffed in
pocket. We were fanatical about cutting weight, used civilian
backpacking gear rather than government issue.
SAS doesn't need pack mules. The only purpose the test serves is to
select those with greatest tolerance for pain. SEAL training has
analogous tests, which also wash out 80%. As a result, SEALs are
'tough' but too often stupid. Their bravado gets them killed. The best
Special Ops unit is US Delta Force. What makes them best is maturity
-- average age is about 30 -- and selection criteria based on
intelligence rather than capacity to withstand frat-house hazing. They
don't show off; they get the job done with grace and confidence.
Second best is the Israeli Sayeret Matkal. We tried to emulate both
... with added creativity.
For instance, when assigned to be token opposition to an international
regiment-sized (1,500 man) amphibious landing, one of our platoons (50
men) routed it. On the radio, we overrode orders in four languages.
On the beach, we directed traffic in the wrong direction. Tanks and
amtraks (personnel carriers) were running out of fuel in the wrong
woods. Some of us jumped from trees to amtraks and put tear gas into
their ventilation systems. The whole landing had to be rerun the next
day. That wasn't our assignment; we did it for fun. The Israelis were
so impressed, they tried to recruit the sergeant who masterminded that
funfest. He declined but they did recruit others.
My running best was 16 miles in 1.5 hours = 5.6 min/mi. Good amateur
marathoners do 2:30 = 5.4 min/mi. But I wasn't a runner. I ran one 880
race in high school, which I didn't win. Then the coach found out I
was smoking a pack a day and kicked me off the team. :) Another best
was breaking the speed record on the SEAL Team school obstacle course
at Little Cr , Va., which is further evidence that tough guys aren't
creative in hurtling obstacles.
| |
| Robert Wagner 2005-01-19, 3:55 am |
| On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:29:59 +0000, Jeff York <ralf4@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
>
[color=darkred]
>... you'd still expect young fit troops, supposedly at the
>"sharp end" of their trade to be able to do it in 20 minutes or so..
For non-runners, the limiting factor is muscle strength, not aerobic
capacity.
I was a bicycler after leaving the military. One day I did a two mile
Fun Run. The day after the run, I did 50 miles on a bicycle with no
difficulty, but every time I got off the bike, walking was so painful
I hobbled. It took a w's recovery before I could walk up stairs.
A stationary exercise bike would be a better test of pure aerobic
capacity.
>
>That's the one they do across the Brecon Beacons in Wales, in the
>winter, in the nude.. :-)
Holy Hypothermia! I didn't know they did it in winter, in the nude.
>
>More a test of resolution IMHO.
The test is designed to make them hit the wall i.e. deplete glycogen
stored in muscles. After hitting the wall, every step is agonizing and
slow. That explains why they allow two miles/hour. A smart hiker would
train his body to burn fat and protein, carbo-load the w before,
carry sports drink and protein bars. A dumb one would gut it out on
determination.
>In my younger days, to keep fit for playing squash, I used to run 10
>miles three times a w. Used to take between 55 minutes and an hour
Six-minute miles are very good for an occasional runner.
>I've also never considered myself a serious
>runner, though I've always wanted to run a marathon, but never got
>round to it
The bicycling equivalent is a Century -- 100 miles. Anyone can do it,
given enough time. There is an annual ride called RAGBRAI in Iowa that
attracts 10,000 riders, of whom 95% are ordinary people, not serious
bicyclers. It travels 400 miles in six days. On most days it goes 60
miles, but one day is a Century.
Old ladies on three-speed bikes do it. It takes them twelve hours, but
they do finish. At the beginning of one such Century, I was riding
beside a very small girl and her fat mother, both on junk bikes. I
asked how old she was. Six. I said, "This is a hundred miles into the
wind. Do you really think you can make it?" She answered, "I don't
know why not; I did last year."
I joined a pace line of teenaged boys who were emulating racing teams
they had seen on the ride; learning to draft for the first time. After
twenty miles, I discovered that what I took for a long-haired boy was
the current Women's Road Champion of Connecticut. It was surreal. We
did the next eighty miles drafting off each other, praising each
others' style, flirting, finished in under six hours. My euphoria was
dampened when her husband and kid ran up to congratulate her.
Late that evening, intoxicated by endorphins and beer, I was in tears
when the little girl and her mother crossed the finish line.
>Ah.. The joys of growing old.. :-)
What I hate most is getting a Senior Discount from an attractive
ticket seller.
| |
| docdwarf@panix.com 2005-01-19, 3:55 am |
| In article <j65ou0dc8nk7lqimluspos4o3nmf1qke80@4ax.com>,
Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:29:59 +0000, Jeff York <ralf4@btinternet.com>
>wrote:
>
[snip]
[color=darkred]
>
>The test is designed to make them hit the wall i.e. deplete glycogen
>stored in muscles. After hitting the wall, every step is agonizing and
>slow. That explains why they allow two miles/hour. A smart hiker would
>train his body to burn fat and protein, carbo-load the w before,
>carry sports drink and protein bars. A dumb one would gut it out on
>determination.
Hmmmmm... now what sort of exchange would begin with something like...
USMC Command, Fallujah:
Sorry, Colonel, we can't attack that hill today.
Why the hell not?
According to this spreadsheet insufficient carbo-loading was accomplished
in the prior w...
DD
| |
| Howard Brazee 2005-01-19, 3:55 am |
|
On 18-Jan-2005, Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
> The bicycling equivalent is a Century -- 100 miles. Anyone can do it,
> given enough time. There is an annual ride called RAGBRAI in Iowa that
> attracts 10,000 riders, of whom 95% are ordinary people, not serious
> bicyclers. It travels 400 miles in six days. On most days it goes 60
> miles, but one day is a Century.
At least 20 years ago, some people stopped at most every bar on the way.
| |
| Chuck Stevens 2005-01-19, 3:55 am |
| <docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:csinq3$jsf$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <j65ou0dc8nk7lqimluspos4o3nmf1qke80@4ax.com>,
> Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Hmmmmm... now what sort of exchange would begin with something like...
>
> USMC Command, Fallujah:
>
> Sorry, Colonel, we can't attack that hill today.
>
> Why the hell not?
>
> According to this spreadsheet insufficient carbo-loading was accomplished
> in the prior w...
>
> DD
Brings to mind the immortal words of Yoda: "Do, or do not. There is no
try." ;-)
A piece of wisdom I often relay to those who s my counsel about living
life on life's terms ...
-Chuck Stevens
| |
| docdwarf@panix.com 2005-01-19, 3:55 am |
| In article <vlaqu01nj5ma13d5120tcurgivdse34mup@4ax.com>,
Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
>On 18 Jan 2005 05:18:43 -0500, docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
[snip]
[color=darkred]
>
>Touche.
Most gracious of you, Mr Wagner.
>
>If the hill were more than 20 miles away, it wouldn't be a simile.
If my Sainted Paternal Grandmother - may she sleep with the angels! - had
wheels she'd be a trolley-car.
DD
| |
| docdwarf@panix.com 2005-01-19, 3:55 am |
| In article <csjerq$2da5$1@si05.rsvl.unisys.com>,
Chuck Stevens <charles.stevens@unisys.com> wrote:
><docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:csinq3$jsf$1@panix5.panix.com...
[snip]
>
>Brings to mind the immortal words of Yoda: "Do, or do not. There is no
>try." ;-)
Well, that's one of the difficulties/simplicities with those ol' binary
systems... everything is either 'is' or 'is not' and there is no
coming-to-be. As Wittgenstein asked: 'Where does the act of 'beginning to
open a door' take place?'
>
>A piece of wisdom I often relay to those who s my counsel about living
>life on life's terms ...
Oh, I *cannot* resist...
.... and this shows that those who look for such a thing in such a place
would seem to get *exactly* what they deserve.
DD
| |
| Chuck Stevens 2005-01-19, 3:55 am |
| <docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:csjijn$7r$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <csjerq$2da5$1@si05.rsvl.unisys.com>,
> Chuck Stevens <charles.stevens@unisys.com> wrote:
news:csinq3$jsf$1@panix5.panix.com...[color=darkred]
>
> [snip]
>
accomplished[color=darkred]
>
> Well, that's one of the difficulties/simplicities with those ol' binary
> systems... everything is either 'is' or 'is not' and there is no
> coming-to-be. As Wittgenstein asked: 'Where does the act of 'beginning to
> open a door' take place?'
>
>
> Oh, I *cannot* resist...
>
> ... and this shows that those who look for such a thing in such a place
> would seem to get *exactly* what they deserve.
>
True enough. But there are those who seem to wish to benefit from my
experiences, worthwhile or not.
-Chuck Stevens
| |
| docdwarf@panix.com 2005-01-19, 3:55 am |
| In article <csjms9$dci$1@peabody.colorado.edu>,
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
>
>On 18-Jan-2005, docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
>
>The worth of some advice should be evaluated independently from where the advice
>was found (looked for or not).
Quite so, Mr Brazee... and the worth of other advice might be
appropriately evaluated above.
DD
| |
| Robert Wagner 2005-01-19, 3:55 am |
| On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:45:22 GMT, "Howard Brazee" <howard@brazee.net>
wrote:
>On 18-Jan-2005, Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
>
>
>At least 20 years ago, some people stopped at most every bar on the way.
RAGBRAI has quirky humor, satire, naked women and much more. It's a
w-long Mardi Gras traveling through Grant Wood country.
| |
| docdwarf@panix.com 2005-01-19, 8:55 am |
| In article <csjms9$dci$1@peabody.colorado.edu>,
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
>
>On 18-Jan-2005, docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
>
>The worth of some advice should be evaluated independently from where the advice
>was found (looked for or not).
Quite so, Mr Brazee... and the worth of other advice might be
appropriately evaluated above.
DD
| |
| Robert Wagner 2005-01-20, 3:55 pm |
| On 18 Jan 2005 05:18:43 -0500, docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>In article <j65ou0dc8nk7lqimluspos4o3nmf1qke80@4ax.com>,
>Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>
>Hmmmmm... now what sort of exchange would begin with something like...
>
>USMC Command, Fallujah:
>
>Sorry, Colonel, we can't attack that hill today.
>
>Why the hell not?
>
>According to this spreadsheet insufficient carbo-loading was accomplished
>in the prior w...
Touche.
If the hill were more than 20 miles away, it wouldn't be a simile.
| |
| Howard Brazee 2005-01-20, 3:55 pm |
|
On 18-Jan-2005, Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
> The bicycling equivalent is a Century -- 100 miles. Anyone can do it,
> given enough time. There is an annual ride called RAGBRAI in Iowa that
> attracts 10,000 riders, of whom 95% are ordinary people, not serious
> bicyclers. It travels 400 miles in six days. On most days it goes 60
> miles, but one day is a Century.
At least 20 years ago, some people stopped at most every bar on the way.
| |
| Chuck Stevens 2005-01-20, 3:55 pm |
| <docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:csinq3$jsf$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <j65ou0dc8nk7lqimluspos4o3nmf1qke80@4ax.com>,
> Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Hmmmmm... now what sort of exchange would begin with something like...
>
> USMC Command, Fallujah:
>
> Sorry, Colonel, we can't attack that hill today.
>
> Why the hell not?
>
> According to this spreadsheet insufficient carbo-loading was accomplished
> in the prior w...
>
> DD
Brings to mind the immortal words of Yoda: "Do, or do not. There is no
try." ;-)
A piece of wisdom I often relay to those who s my counsel about living
life on life's terms ...
-Chuck Stevens
| |
| docdwarf@panix.com 2005-01-20, 3:55 pm |
| In article <csjerq$2da5$1@si05.rsvl.unisys.com>,
Chuck Stevens <charles.stevens@unisys.com> wrote:
><docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:csinq3$jsf$1@panix5.panix.com...
[snip]
>
>Brings to mind the immortal words of Yoda: "Do, or do not. There is no
>try." ;-)
Well, that's one of the difficulties/simplicities with those ol' binary
systems... everything is either 'is' or 'is not' and there is no
coming-to-be. As Wittgenstein asked: 'Where does the act of 'beginning to
open a door' take place?'
>
>A piece of wisdom I often relay to those who s my counsel about living
>life on life's terms ...
Oh, I *cannot* resist...
.... and this shows that those who look for such a thing in such a place
would seem to get *exactly* what they deserve.
DD
| |
| Chuck Stevens 2005-01-20, 3:55 pm |
| <docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:csjijn$7r$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <csjerq$2da5$1@si05.rsvl.unisys.com>,
> Chuck Stevens <charles.stevens@unisys.com> wrote:
news:csinq3$jsf$1@panix5.panix.com...[color=darkred]
>
> [snip]
>
accomplished[color=darkred]
>
> Well, that's one of the difficulties/simplicities with those ol' binary
> systems... everything is either 'is' or 'is not' and there is no
> coming-to-be. As Wittgenstein asked: 'Where does the act of 'beginning to
> open a door' take place?'
>
>
> Oh, I *cannot* resist...
>
> ... and this shows that those who look for such a thing in such a place
> would seem to get *exactly* what they deserve.
>
True enough. But there are those who seem to wish to benefit from my
experiences, worthwhile or not.
-Chuck Stevens
| |
| Howard Brazee 2005-01-20, 3:55 pm |
|
On 18-Jan-2005, docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
> Oh, I *cannot* resist...
>
> ... and this shows that those who look for such a thing in such a place
> would seem to get *exactly* what they deserve.
The worth of some advice should be evaluated independently from where the advice
was found (looked for or not).
| |
| docdwarf@panix.com 2005-01-20, 8:55 pm |
| In article <j65ou0dc8nk7lqimluspos4o3nmf1qke80@4ax.com>,
Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:29:59 +0000, Jeff York <ralf4@btinternet.com>
>wrote:
>
[snip]
[color=darkred]
>
>The test is designed to make them hit the wall i.e. deplete glycogen
>stored in muscles. After hitting the wall, every step is agonizing and
>slow. That explains why they allow two miles/hour. A smart hiker would
>train his body to burn fat and protein, carbo-load the w before,
>carry sports drink and protein bars. A dumb one would gut it out on
>determination.
Hmmmmm... now what sort of exchange would begin with something like...
USMC Command, Fallujah:
Sorry, Colonel, we can't attack that hill today.
Why the hell not?
According to this spreadsheet insufficient carbo-loading was accomplished
in the prior w...
DD
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