Cobol - Linux and security

Author

Linux and security

Bob Wolfe

2004-12-18, 12:46 pm

Just thought that some of your would find this to be of interest.

People can say what they want. Carnegie Mellon University studied
operating systems for 4 years and arrived at the results as shown on
this web site:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5489804.html

This certainly confirms in my mind that Linux is probably one of the
safest server-based operating systems available. Possibly one of the
safest all-around operating systems available. Despite "conventional
wisdom" Linux is not going to go away...particulary now that IBM has
embraced it.

Bob Wolfe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When replying by e-mail, make sure that you correct the e-mail address.
Check out The Flexus COBOL Page at http://www.flexus.com

Howard Brazee

2004-12-18, 12:46 pm

On 15-Dec-2004, "JerryMouse" <nospam@bisusa.com> wrote:

> Apples and oranges. Servers are a piddly percentage of boxes. Properly
> configured boxes, either Windows or that other one (can't think of its name)
> don't get compromised. Further:

Which is meaningless if boxes aren't properly configured. Or when this
definition keeps changing as new security breaches are discovered.

Tim Boyer

2004-12-18, 12:46 pm

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:54:04 GMT, Bob Wolfe <rtwolfe@flexus.com> wrote:

>Just thought that some of your would find this to be of interest.
>
>People can say what they want. Carnegie Mellon University studied
>operating systems for 4 years and arrived at the results as shown on
>this web site:
>
>http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5489804.html
>
>This certainly confirms in my mind that Linux is probably one of the
>safest server-based operating systems available. Possibly one of the
>safest all-around operating systems available. Despite "conventional
>wisdom" Linux is not going to go away...particulary now that IBM has
>embraced it.
>
>
>
>Bob Wolfe

Bob, does this mean Microsoft is lying? I'm shocked, _shocked_!!

--
tim boyer
tim@denmantire.com

Richard

2004-12-18, 12:46 pm

> Properly configured boxes, either Windows or that other one (can't
think of its name)
> don't get compromised. Further:

The vast majority of Windows boxes are not 'properly configured'. Most
home users for example don't know what SP2 is or are still running
Windows 98 or ME. Many still run Outlook and IE because it is there.
With Outlook you can get a security breach merely by selecting an EMail
message unless the user has done something deliberate to stop that
happening, such as getting an update. With IE you can get a security
breach merely by visting a site and using the scroll bar.

> But, again, most car wrecks are caused by drunk drivers, not the cars
themselves.

That comparison is entirely spurious. With Windows one can buy a
machine at a retail store, connect it to the internet and, with no
action at all from the user, it could be breached within a few minutes.

This is equivalent to buying a car and putting it in the driveway and
having a tree fall on it.

Actually, these days, it is _not_ like a tree falling on it, it is like
someone attaches a trailer and gets a free ride. A recent survey of
several thousand machines found an average of 29 spyware and adware
items per Windows machine.

Yes, with Linux a direct attack can cause the system to crash if it
isn't configured properly, but it doesn't get silently 'pwn3d' (owned
in text speak).

Richard

2004-12-18, 12:46 pm

> You're free to do whatever you wish with the software you write.

Yes, I can. Writers using proprietry software may find that they are
restricted in what they do with their software. The EULA is a contract
not a licence and this may impose restrictions. For example it may say
that I may not use this product to develop a product that competes with
any product from the suppier. When a market succeeds, MS announces a
products and then prevents developers from 'competing' with theirs:

""" ---------------
First Microsoft encourages fleet tracking companies to grow the market.

Second they add confusing language to the EULA which seems to restrict
use for Tracking. (But they don't seem to enforce it. Hmmm, I wonder
why?)

Third, they come out with a product that is directed right at business
users, which is the core business of the fleet tracking companies.

Finally the coupe de grace, (this is my guess) Microsoft targets Fleet
Tracking companies clients. (They even know who the MapPoint users
are.) They starts enforcing the EULA and within 1-2 yrs, they are the
only company left providing fleet tracking with MapPoint.

Ever feel like you've been taken?
---------------------- """
'Freedom' means not having to put up with that sort of crap.

Scott Moore

2004-12-19, 3:55 am

Bob Wolfe wrote:
> Just thought that some of your would find this to be of interest.
>
> People can say what they want. Carnegie Mellon University studied
> operating systems for 4 years and arrived at the results as shown on
> this web site:
>
> http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5489804.html
>
> This certainly confirms in my mind that Linux is probably one of the
> safest server-based operating systems available. Possibly one of the
> safest all-around operating systems available. Despite "conventional
> wisdom" Linux is not going to go away...particulary now that IBM has
> embraced it.
>
>
>
> Bob Wolfe
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> When replying by e-mail, make sure that you correct the e-mail address.
> Check out The Flexus COBOL Page at http://www.flexus.com
>

Facinatng that everyone here simply took it for granted that they were
finding valid bugs. Read the description:

========================================
=================================
The conclusion is the result of a four-year research project conducted
by code-analysis company Coverity, which plans to release its report on Tuesday

....

Code-analysis tools typically use software-design principles to analyze a
program's source code and flag any possible problems
========================================
===================================

I've used a code analizer tool. Its a "super lint" that flags such items
as:

while (c = 'a') { ... }

Which certainly looks like an error, but isn't necessarily so.

In any case, all the article says is they are assuming the output of their
code analisis tool is a "bug" count. All it really means is it found less
constructs it didn't like.

A "bug" is a verifiable software problem. There is no automated tool that
can do this.

--
Samiam is Scott A. Moore

Personal web site: http:/www.moorecad.com/scott
My electronics engineering consulting site: http://www.moorecad.com
ISO 7185 Standard Pascal web site: http://www.moorecad.com/standardpascal
Classic Basic Games web site: http://www.moorecad.com/classicbasic
The IP Pascal web site, a high performance, highly portable ISO 7185 Pascal
compiler system: http://www.moorecad.com/ippas

Good does not always win. But good is more patient.

steve.t

2004-12-19, 3:55 pm

Scott:

Valid point and observation.

One should find it very interesting that only M/S and Linux are being
reported on / compaired.

Meanwhile, have most people, beyond the techie types, found it very
interesting that malicious code seems to be targetted toward the
systems easiest to compromise?

The answer is no, because marketing of Windoze is so heavy, that most
people have no idea that OS/2 used to be available. And most have no
idea what Linux is.

So when I have discussed this with supposed technical types, the answer
was that if the other systems were more prevalent (having more
exposure) you would see malicious code targetted to them.

It is my conjecture that since most of the reported attacks are against
M/S, it would seem that they have the most exposures that are the
easiest to exploit. If M/S actually starts doing regression testing and
the like, and closes holes in designs and implementation, the crackers
will move on to other systems looking for easy exploits.

The end result should be much tighter code and system by all software
companies.

Later,
Steve.T

Richard

2004-12-19, 8:55 pm

steve.t wrote:

> It is my conjecture that since most of the reported attacks are
against
> M/S, it would seem that they have the most exposures that are the
> easiest to exploit.

The problem with Windows is that most of the exploits are not of bugs
(though buffer overruns have been exploited) but of _features_. With
outlook, opening an email can cause the attachment to be executed
allowing virusees to be loaded. The default for Windows is to _hide_
the file type because the typing is based on DOS, and thus an
attachment that is innocent.jpg.exe is shown as innocent.jpg and
appears to be an image but will execute when clicked.

steve.t

2004-12-20, 3:55 pm

A poorly designed and/or implemented feature is still a bug - logic
based, but still a defect or bug. Anytime you have incorrect-output,
you have a bug. And undesireable output that is because of a security
exposure is the worse kind.

Let me give an example: In the MVS world, IDCAMS (utility) is in the
books. However, because of what it can be used for, it detects if *you*
are authorized to perform functions. If it did not, you could use it to
delete/copy/modify files you are not authorized to use or see.

If you give that kind of power to common users (as M/S does), and bad
things happen, you can't really say that this is a feature and not a
bug. Yet it is precisely this kind of thing that people want to gloss
over and call a feature -- and not a glaring security error (bug).

Let us look at another issue. It is my opinion from doing D/R work that
the M/S Registry is a LARGE bug. Consider what happens if you have a
drive crash. Upon doing a restore, does the registry get correctly
restored? If it doesn't, software that has Windows API calls seem to
crash because information needed isn't in the directory (well the
registry data points to "D" but since the new drive was large enough to
hold all the data...). Talk about a DoS! This is a poorly thought out
situation that has come to bite several entities when they have had to
restore a system after a hard drive crash.

No other O/S that I know of and/or have used have such glaring
problems. Yet we all take these as "features" from M/S and allow them
to get away with it.

Later,
Steve.T

Howard Brazee

2004-12-20, 3:55 pm

On 20-Dec-2004, "steve.t" <sthompson@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> No other O/S that I know of and/or have used have such glaring
> problems. Yet we all take these as "features" from M/S and allow them
> to get away with it.

The philosophy was one of offering complete power to the user. This worked
when there was one user per machine who owned and controlled everything on the
machine. Everybody was a power user (and we do like being power users).

But the Internet changed that. We no longer can guarantee that only our
decisions change our computers. That philosophy that was so seductive doesn't
work anymore.

Bob Wolfe

2004-12-21, 3:55 am

"JerryMouse" <nospam@bisusa.com> wrote:

>Bob Wolfe wrote:
>
>And IBM shed it's PC business.

IBM's PC business wasn't based upon Linux. Their zSeries machines are
the ones which are Linux based.

>I'll bet, if you run the pro-rata numbers, there are vastly more security
>breaches on Linux systems than on Windows.

I'm not privvy to such numbers.

>Bob, you're in the software business. You must believe that free software is
>the spawn of the devil, roughly equivalent to free Heroin, and causes
>genital warts.

I buy Linux licenses from Red Hat. I don't get them for free.

>Repeat after me:
>
>"Linux is a knock-off of a 40-year-old operating system developed by a
>money-losing division of your local telephone company, promoted by those who
>can't get a date (perhaps because of the genital wart thing), and used by
>people who think DOS commands are not complicated enough."

My son uses Lindows. The GUI interface is actually very intuitive.
The GUI is almost as good as Windows.

>
>And I'm not saying this because I own a bunch of Micros~1 stock, either.

Ok.

Jerry....perhaps you misundestand my intent. I think some people may
get the wrong impression that I am suggesting replacement of Windows
with Linux, when in fact, I was merely suggesting that Linux is a very
safe server environment.

I really do like Windows XP Pro....but I also speak with people who
suggest that Linux is inferior to Windows. I disagree with any such
blanket statement that one is better than the other. They BOTH have
their share of strengths as well as weaknesses.

It is my personal opinion that the best client/server environment is
one which uses a UNIX server based environment combined with a Windows
client environment.

Bob Wolfe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When replying by e-mail, make sure that you correct the e-mail address.
Check out The Flexus COBOL Page at http://www.flexus.com

Scott Moore

2004-12-22, 8:55 am

steve.t

2004-12-22, 8:55 am

steve.t

2004-12-22, 3:55 pm

Richard

2004-12-22, 8:55 pm

LX-i

2004-12-30, 3:55 am

Joe Zitzelberger wrote:
>
> Windows is a 32-bit shell around a 16-bit extension to an 8-bit
> operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company that
> can't stand 1-bit of competition.

That's going around to everyone at work tomorrow... :)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ LXi0007@Netscape.net ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.knology.net/~mopsmom/daniel ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ I do not read e-mail at the above address ~
~ Please see website if you wish to contact me privately ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Joe Zitzelberger

2004-12-31, 3:55 am

In article <uiLAd.3805$Kw1.373@fe40.usenetserver.com>,
LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:

> Joe Zitzelberger wrote:
>
> That's going around to everyone at work tomorrow... :)

Dude --

You never heard that one before? It was all the rage when that crap
called Windoze-95 was beating the decent, well-constructed OS/2...

Give my best to all the caddys and buy a round of martinis for me (air
force, right?)

Joe

Richard

2004-12-31, 3:55 pm

> Properly configured boxes, .... don't get compromised.

"""" -----------------------------------
lightdarkness writes "Symantec is reporting about a new virus called
Phel (Anagram of 'help') which is a Trojan which spreads via a HTML
file. All the user needs to do is go to the page, and it takes
advantage of the vulnerability in the IE Help control component files.
This allows the attacker to download malicious programs on to the
machine. Worst part is, this is one of the exploits that even effects
SP2. Microsoft is said to be working to stop the spread, and to release
a patch." The exploit is apparently not the same as the help file
problems disclosed last w

.
---------------------------------"""
The 'proper configuration' for a Windows machine is 'switched off'.

LX-i

2004-12-31, 8:55 pm

Joe Zitzelberger wrote:
> In article <uiLAd.3805$Kw1.373@fe40.usenetserver.com>,
> LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dude --
>
> You never heard that one before? It was all the rage when that crap
> called Windoze-95 was beating the decent, well-constructed OS/2...

I remember that time, but no, that's the first I've heard of it. (I ran
a multi-node BBS under OS/2 - first using MainDoor (a FrontDoor clone
for OS/2, but only available in Spanish!), then using BinkleyTerm. Bink
ended up working well, even when I switched to NT 3.51.)

> Give my best to all the caddys and buy a round of martinis for me (air
> force, right?)

Yes, AF... But I'm not sure I get the "caddys" reference - there's only
a couple of us that are military in our shop, and we're all enlisted. :)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ LXi0007@Netscape.net ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.knology.net/~mopsmom/daniel ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ I do not read e-mail at the above address ~
~ Please see website if you wish to contact me privately ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Joe Zitzelberger

2005-01-01, 8:55 pm

In article <lokBd.248$4G1.39@fe40.usenetserver.com>,
LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:

> Joe Zitzelberger wrote:
>
> I remember that time, but no, that's the first I've heard of it. (I ran
> a multi-node BBS under OS/2 - first using MainDoor (a FrontDoor clone
> for OS/2, but only available in Spanish!), then using BinkleyTerm. Bink
> ended up working well, even when I switched to NT 3.51.)
>
>
> Yes, AF... But I'm not sure I get the "caddys" reference - there's only
> a couple of us that are military in our shop, and we're all enlisted. :)

I was just thinking about my one, temporary, stationing on an Air Force
base. I was in Montgomery, Alabama for Basic Noncommissioned Officers
Course (BNCOC). Why the army put us there, I have no idea. But that is
where they found a classroom and an Army instructor.

So I'm an E-5 in transient housing -- in the Army that would mean a
rack, wall locker and bathroom shared with two to four other transients.

In the Air Force that turned out to be a suite with full kitchen,
washer/dryer, cable TV w/VCR. To top it off there was a mini-bar and
maid service was available.

After that I knew why people called the Air Force a 'country club' ...
thus the caddys and martinis.

docdwarf@panix.com

2005-01-02, 3:55 am

In article <joe_zitzelberger-B4A615.18020101012005@knology.usenetserver.com>,
Joe Zitzelberger <joe_zitzelberger@nospam.com> wrote:

[snip]

>So I'm an E-5 in transient housing -- in the Army that would mean a
>rack, wall locker and bathroom shared with two to four other transients.
>
>In the Air Force that turned out to be a suite with full kitchen,
>washer/dryer, cable TV w/VCR. To top it off there was a mini-bar and
>maid service was available.
>
>After that I knew why people called the Air Force a 'country club' ...
>thus the caddys and martinis.

When I enlisted the Air Force had the shortest period of Basic Training, a
guaranteed tech-school placement program (if you did not get the schooling
you signed up for your enlistment contract was null and void) and a
reputation - well deserved - for the best chow, overall, of any of the
services.

I ran across people who were proud of volunteering for situations that
made them more uncomfortable and derided me for the 'soft life' I had...
my response was 'Hey, if I want to be miserable I can always get boots a
half-size smaller; if you want to sleep on the ground instead of in a bunk
then be my guest.'

DD

LX-i

2005-01-02, 3:55 am

Joe Zitzelberger wrote:
>
> I was just thinking about my one, temporary, stationing on an Air Force
> base. I was in Montgomery, Alabama for Basic Noncommissioned Officers
> Course (BNCOC). Why the army put us there, I have no idea. But that is
> where they found a classroom and an Army instructor.
>
> So I'm an E-5 in transient housing -- in the Army that would mean a
> rack, wall locker and bathroom shared with two to four other transients.
>
> In the Air Force that turned out to be a suite with full kitchen,
> washer/dryer, cable TV w/VCR. To top it off there was a mini-bar and
> maid service was available.

I think I know exactly where you stayed - was it on Maxwell proper, or
on Gunter?

> After that I knew why people called the Air Force a 'country club' ...
> thus the caddys and martinis.

:) Some of know what branch to pick...

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ LXi0007@Netscape.net ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.knology.net/~mopsmom/daniel ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ I do not read e-mail at the above address ~
~ Please see website if you wish to contact me privately ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

steve.t

2005-01-02, 3:55 am

Proper configuration of a Windows machine is to *NOT* use Micro$**t
software for Internet interface. None of our systems seem to have these
problems, but then we are using NT 4.0 with IE not installed (NT 4.0
didn't have IE as part of the O/S when it first came out!).
Later,
Steve.T

Robert Wagner

2005-01-02, 8:55 am

On 1 Jan 2005 20:01:09 -0800, "steve.t" <sthompson@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

>Proper configuration of a Windows machine is to *NOT* use Micro$**t
>software for Internet interface. None of our systems seem to have these
>problems, but then we are using NT 4.0 with IE not installed (NT 4.0
>didn't have IE as part of the O/S when it first came out!).

One can avoid the problem on modern MS operating systems by running
Mozilla in place of IE.

Joe Zitzelberger

2005-01-02, 3:55 pm

In article <CrJBd.1347$4G1.112@fe40.usenetserver.com>,
LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:

> Joe Zitzelberger wrote:
>
> I think I know exactly where you stayed - was it on Maxwell proper, or
> on Gunter?

I can't remember. It was the second air base driving in from the
north-east on I-85. I think I passed Gunter and stayed at Maxwell? Or
did I pass Maxwell and stay at Gunter?

It was some time ago -- that was 1995 or 1996...

>
> :) Some of know what branch to pick...

My father, a 42-year veteran of the Army, used to always tell us kids to
'join the Air Force'. I just never knew how to listen...

LX-i

2005-01-03, 3:55 am

Robert Wagner wrote:
> On 1 Jan 2005 20:01:09 -0800, "steve.t" <sthompson@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> One can avoid the problem on modern MS operating systems by running
> Mozilla in place of IE.

We get approved patches for Windows (that, at that point, become
"directives" for us to load, lest our access to the network be cut) at
the pace of about one a w

, some w

s more. Like you say, most have
to do with internetworking vulnerabilities. There is the occasional one
that is a vulnerability in the underlying networking software - but, if
you've got a decent firewall, those are pretty easily avoided.

I've got responsibility for 3 W2K Server boxes and one WXP Pro box
(actually the easiest one, as it's in the "yellow zone" (isolated from
the base network) - it could probably become a zombie and they probably
wouldn't even notice).

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ LXi0007@Netscape.net ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.knology.net/~mopsmom/daniel ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ I do not read e-mail at the above address ~
~ Please see website if you wish to contact me privately ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LX-i

2005-01-03, 3:55 am

Joe Zitzelberger wrote:
> In article <CrJBd.1347$4G1.112@fe40.usenetserver.com>,
> LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
> I can't remember. It was the second air base driving in from the
> north-east on I-85. I think I passed Gunter and stayed at Maxwell? Or
> did I pass Maxwell and stay at Gunter?

If you came from Atlanta, Maxwell is the second one. I don't know
exactly where you stayed, but I've got a pretty good idea...

> It was some time ago -- that was 1995 or 1996...

It just doesn't seem like that should be that long ago, does it? This
is now 2005 - Top Gun was released in 1986, meaning that next year, that
will be *20 years ago*!

> My father, a 42-year veteran of the Army, used to always tell us kids to
> 'join the Air Force'. I just never knew how to listen...

One of the guys that used to be in our office had enlisted with the
Army, been sent to 'Nam and made it back - he actually transferred to
the Air Force. He ended up retiring at E-7 - he was sharp enough for
E-9, but he just didn't want to go through the political B$ that he
would have had to endure for those years. :)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ LXi0007@Netscape.net ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.knology.net/~mopsmom/daniel ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ I do not read e-mail at the above address ~
~ Please see website if you wish to contact me privately ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Howard Brazee

2005-01-04, 3:55 pm

On 2-Jan-2005, Joe Zitzelberger <joe_zitzelberger@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> I can't remember. It was the second air base driving in from the
> north-east on I-85. I think I passed Gunter and stayed at Maxwell? Or
> did I pass Maxwell and stay at Gunter?
>
> It was some time ago -- that was 1995 or 1996...

I remember one of them (Pretty sure it was Gunter) had huge floors full of
computers in 1975, when I was a data automation officer waiting for my pilot
training class to start at Craig AFB in Selma.

LX-i

2005-01-04, 8:55 pm

Howard Brazee wrote:
> On 2-Jan-2005, Joe Zitzelberger <joe_zitzelberger@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I remember one of them (Pretty sure it was Gunter) had huge floors full of
> computers in 1975, when I was a data automation officer waiting for my pilot
> training class to start at Craig AFB in Selma.

Was that a four-story building with no windows? (both literally and
system-wise...)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ LXi0007@Netscape.net ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.knology.net/~mopsmom/daniel ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ I do not read e-mail at the above address ~
~ Please see website if you wish to contact me privately ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Howard Brazee

2005-01-05, 3:55 pm

On 4-Jan-2005, LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:

>
> Was that a four-story building with no windows? (both literally and
> system-wise...)

Sounds right.

LX-i

2005-01-06, 8:55 pm

Howard Brazee wrote:
> On 4-Jan-2005, LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Sounds right.

That would be where DISA has their support activity. It's number is one
off from the one I'm in (and is across one street). (Of course, I think
we're moving soon - that'll be my third building since I've been
stationed here.)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ LXi0007@Netscape.net ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.knology.net/~mopsmom/daniel ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ I do not read e-mail at the above address ~
~ Please see website if you wish to contact me privately ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Howard Brazee

2005-01-06, 8:55 pm

LX-i

2005-01-07, 3:55 pm

Howard Brazee

2005-01-10, 3:55 pm

Sponsored Links