Home > Archive > Cobol > July 2004 > College student wants to write program to show potential employers.
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| Author |
College student wants to write program to show potential employers.
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| Jason Z. 2004-07-09, 3:55 pm |
| I would like to hear from the experienced cobol programers out there.
It would be great ot hear from anyone that is involved in the hiring
process too.
I would like to write a program with cobol to present to employers
when I go job hunting upon graduation. I am looking for ideas on what
kind of program should I do that I could show. I would like it to be a
large project, not some little program that someone could just write
up in a couple of days. I have taken one class in CICS and will be
taking another in the fall. So I would be willing to use CICS if it
suitable for the program that you suggest. Thank you for your time.
Jason Z.
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| Joe Gradeless 2004-07-09, 8:55 pm |
|
"Jason Z." <superztnt@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bd0700ac.0407090955.db620f7@posting.google.com...
> I would like to hear from the experienced cobol programers out there.
> It would be great ot hear from anyone that is involved in the hiring
> process too.
>
> I would like to write a program with cobol to present to employers
> when I go job hunting upon graduation. I am looking for ideas on what
> kind of program should I do that I could show. I would like it to be a
> large project, not some little program that someone could just write
> up in a couple of days. I have taken one class in CICS and will be
> taking another in the fall. So I would be willing to use CICS if it
> suitable for the program that you suggest. Thank you for your time.
>
>
> Jason Z.
What a great idea. I'm thinking of moving into the financial sector. Can
anyone can lend/ give me large amounts of money so I can show it to
employers when I go job hunting? It will convince them I am a financial
wizard.
Joe
| |
| E P Chandler 2004-07-09, 8:55 pm |
| superztnt@gmail.com (Jason Z.) wrote in message news:<bd0700ac.0407090955.db620f7@posting.google.com>...
> I would like to hear from the experienced cobol programers out there.
> It would be great ot hear from anyone that is involved in the hiring
> process too.
>
> I would like to write a program with cobol to present to employers
> when I go job hunting upon graduation. I am looking for ideas on what
> kind of program should I do that I could show. I would like it to be a
> large project, not some little program that someone could just write
> up in a couple of days. I have taken one class in CICS and will be
> taking another in the fall. So I would be willing to use CICS if it
> suitable for the program that you suggest. Thank you for your time.
>
>
> Jason Z.
You are putting the cart before the horse here. Hiring managers will
not take the time to read through a program large or complex enough to
show off your skills. I suggest instead:
1. Describe a business problem or process.
2. Write a program specification to solve it.
3. Write up a high level (modular) description of your program.
4. Describe in general terms the files and any unusual data structures
you use.
5. Imagine that you have profiled the program and looked for critical
areas either in terms of program speed or storage space. Then write a
few brief samples of code that address these "hot spots".
Of course if you are going to be a maintenance programmer than showing
off your coding skills won't get you a job any more than juggling
coins will get you a job as a bank teller.
| |
| Robert Wagner 2004-07-10, 3:56 am |
| superztnt@gmail.com (Jason Z.) wrote:
>I would like to hear from the experienced cobol programers out there.
>It would be great ot hear from anyone that is involved in the hiring
>process too.
>
>I would like to write a program with cobol to present to employers
>when I go job hunting upon graduation. I am looking for ideas on what
>kind of program should I do that I could show. I would like it to be a
>large project, not some little program that someone could just write
>up in a couple of days. I have taken one class in CICS and will be
>taking another in the fall. So I would be willing to use CICS if it
>suitable for the program that you suggest. Thank you for your time.
Employers don't care about demo programs. They want to know how many YEARS
experience you have with (list of software they use).
If they use SQL Server, don't bore them with experience in Sybase (from which
SQL Server was copied). Don't tell them that SQL is an ANSI-Standard language.
Just tell them NUMBER OF YEARS experience with SQL Server. If less than two,
you're disqualified.
As a neophyte, you'll have to spend an 'internship' accumulating experience.
Make sure it includes the software products in demand when you look for a 'real'
job.
| |
| Jason Z. 2004-07-10, 3:56 am |
| "Joe Gradeless" <jo@xmxmx.freeXXXserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<ccn52t$j5c$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> What a great idea. I'm thinking of moving into the financial sector. Can
> anyone can lend/ give me large amounts of money so I can show it to
> employers when I go job hunting? It will convince them I am a financial
> wizard.
>
> Joe
Don't you have anything else to do? Your analogy doesn't even
correspond to my question. Are you jealous that I have ambition and
you have failed at life. It's not my falut, blame your mom or dad.
Only genuine responses needed. Thank you and have a nice day.
Jason Z
| |
| Peter Lacey 2004-07-10, 3:56 am |
| "Jason Z." wrote:
>
> I would like to hear from the experienced cobol programers out there.
> It would be great ot hear from anyone that is involved in the hiring
> process too.
>
> I would like to write a program with cobol to present to employers
> when I go job hunting upon graduation. I am looking for ideas on what
> kind of program should I do that I could show. I would like it to be a
> large project, not some little program that someone could just write
> up in a couple of days. I have taken one class in CICS and will be
> taking another in the fall. So I would be willing to use CICS if it
> suitable for the program that you suggest. Thank you for your time.
>
> Jason Z.
For a start: with your limited experience, anything you write would give
it away. It doesn't matter if you have absorbed all the "proper"
programming techniques, you just haven't come across all the gotcha's
and the real-life best ways of doing things. Anyone who has been around
for a while will recognize a rookie's work. Don't mean to be
discouraging but that's the way it is. (One example in my experience is
that newbies delight in using the most complex methods they can manage).
Second: what you are asking for from the group is a detailed system
specification. We could suggest "write an accounts receivable system",
for instance, but unless we supplied all the ins and outs (and there are
many, many choices even for something as common as this) you would
certainly write a very limited thing which wouldn't impress. I doubt if
anyone is willing to give you such a spec (unless, of course, you're
willing to pay a fair price).
Third - and not necessarily a show-stopper - you'll likely find that
either your prospective employer buys his software or that they have
in-house standards that you aren't aware of and haven't complied with.
Your best bets would be to get into a co-op work project or to offer
yourself as an intern to some propective employer. Neither of these pay
as a rule but both offer some hope of getting the "in" and the
all-important experience.
PL
| |
| Richard 2004-07-10, 3:56 am |
| robert.deletethis@wagner.net (Robert Wagner) wrote
> If they use SQL Server, don't bore them with experience in Sybase (from which
> SQL Server was copied).
SQL Server was not 'copied' from Sybase, it _IS_ Sybase. MS bought
the Sybase product to build SQL Server, Sybase then had to come up
with a complete new product range - I think that they bought in
another company as a starting point.
| |
| Robert Wagner 2004-07-10, 8:55 am |
| riplin@Azonic.co.nz (Richard) wrote:
>robert.deletethis@wagner.net (Robert Wagner) wrote
>
>
>SQL Server was not 'copied' from Sybase, it _IS_ Sybase. MS bought
>the Sybase product to build SQL Server, Sybase then had to come up
>with a complete new product range - I think that they bought in
>another company as a starting point.
You're correct. I meant 'Don't bore then with experience in Sybase prior to the
MS acquisition', even though it's the same thing.
Employers have a consumer mentality. They are oriented to Brand Names. If your
experience was on a product not branded SQL Server, it doesn't count.
| |
| SkippyPB 2004-07-10, 3:56 pm |
| On 9 Jul 2004 19:05:29 -0700, superztnt@gmail.com (Jason Z.)
enlightened us:
>"Joe Gradeless" <jo@xmxmx.freeXXXserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<ccn52t$j5c$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>
>
>Don't you have anything else to do? Your analogy doesn't even
>correspond to my question. Are you jealous that I have ambition and
>you have failed at life. It's not my falut, blame your mom or dad.
>
>Only genuine responses needed. Thank you and have a nice day.
>
>
>Jason Z
What he is trying to tell you is your request is, well how should I
put this, stupid! A potential employer will never ask to see your
previous work especially if you are just coming out of college. They
may give you a test, but they are not going to ask to see previous
work. Part of the reason is that work you do for another employer is
owned by them and not you and there could be legal ramifications if
you shared such software with someone else.
Since you are just graduating, potential employers will not expect
that you have much experience, so what are you going to show them?
That you can write code that may or may not be yours to solve some
classroom problem? Doesn't prove a thing.
Just present yourself as best you can and be prepared to take some
kind of entry exam that will test your knowledge although not everyone
does this. And finally, HR people who do the preliminary interviews
and resume' reading don't have the time or knowledge to read a
computer program you may or may not have written yourself.
Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
Old musicians never die,
they just drift from bar to bar.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove nospam to email me.
Steve
| |
| Robert Wagner 2004-07-11, 3:55 am |
| SkippyPB <swiegand@neo.rr.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>What he is trying to tell you is your request is, well how should I
>put this, stupid! A potential employer will never ask to see your
>previous work especially if you are just coming out of college. They
>may give you a test, but they are not going to ask to see previous
>work. Part of the reason is that work you do for another employer is
>owned by them and not you and there could be legal ramifications if
>you shared such software with someone else.
When I interviewed programmers, I always asked for a code sample. It didn't need
to be a complete program, just a page or two. I wasn't out to steal code owned
by another company, I wanted to evaluate the programmer's style.
In other creative fields, submitting a 'portfolio' is the norm. Why should IT be
different?
| |
| Joe Zitzelberger 2004-07-12, 3:56 pm |
| In article <bd0700ac.0407090955.db620f7@posting.google.com>,
superztnt@gmail.com (Jason Z.) wrote:
> I would like to hear from the experienced cobol programers out there.
> It would be great ot hear from anyone that is involved in the hiring
> process too.
>
> I would like to write a program with cobol to present to employers
> when I go job hunting upon graduation. I am looking for ideas on what
> kind of program should I do that I could show. I would like it to be a
> large project, not some little program that someone could just write
> up in a couple of days. I have taken one class in CICS and will be
> taking another in the fall. So I would be willing to use CICS if it
> suitable for the program that you suggest. Thank you for your time.
>
>
> Jason Z.
If mainframe is what you are looking for, go to cbttape.org for
discussion. It is a site of freeware utilities that is well known.
Write some useful things and you will find many users willing to help
you into the door.
| |
| Michael Mattias 2004-07-12, 3:56 pm |
| > In article <bd0700ac.0407090955.db620f7@posting.google.com>,[color=darkred]
> superztnt@gmail.com (Jason Z.) wrote:
>
If it's really a "demo of what I can do" thing, a nice file maintenance is
something any prospective employer could (should?) appreciate... not only
does it show your general skill level, it shows your 'style', attention to
detail, how you handle editing, present error messages to users, etc etc.
EVERYONE needs file maintenance programs.
For extra credit, write a nice print report on the maintained file. Ditto on
what is demonstrates.
EVERYONE needs print reports.
Just make up a file description: name, address, zip, phone, etc... show
editing for presence, valid format for phone number, zip must be numeric
unless country <> USA, stuff like that.
--
Michael Mattias
Tal Systems, Inc.
Racine WI
mmattias@talsystems.com
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| SkippyPB <swiegand@neo.rr.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>What he is trying to tell you is your request is, well how should I
>put this, stupid! A potential employer will never ask to see your
>previous work especially if you are just coming out of college.
No, but that doesn't mean you can't show it to them. Back
when I was teaching, I had my students make a runbook. For
each programming assignment, there was the statement of the
problem, the final program, and the output of the run.
Potential employers could tell at a glance that this
person had done a *lot* of coding, not simply one or two
exercises. A quick look would show that this person was
also capable of at least minimal documentation. It might
not alone get the job, but I think it provided an edge (for
an entry-level position) over someone who could only talk
about what they'd done.
--
Ron
(user ron
in domain spamblocked.com)
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