Cobol - [OT] Hourly rate?

Author

[OT] Hourly rate?

Kindrick Ownby

2004-04-15, 4:30 pm

Please forgive if this is too off topic.

I am wondering what a contemporary reasonable hourly
rate might be for design and implementation of new
features in a COBOL application. The COBOL is archaic,
dating from the IBM System/34.

The situation - I am semi-retired, having been in the
business since 1957. I have been working at home for
the past 18 years, working on the same product, and
have had virtually no contact with other programmers
during that time.

The application I support is owned by another party
that ceased being active in 1994. I used to work with
that entity, and now have the exclusive rights to
maintain the master copy of the source and support
users. All of the clients except one have either gone
out of business or have replaced the system.

The client pays me a small fixed fee each month for
which I do maintenance, minor enhancements, and hand-
holding. The client wants to continue to use the system
as long as they can - it is a totally integrated and
complete data processing package for a specific vertical
market. It consists of 400,000+ lines of code.

Lately, they have asked for modifications that rationally
exceed the definitions of our agreement. I wish to bill
for at least the design phase of any new feature at an
hourly rate. I will happily do final implementation for
a fixed fee if it is clear that we are both talking
about the same thing.

Since I have the exclusive right to the source, then I
might be able to ask a very high price which they would
pay if they wanted it enough. But I am interested in,
given my effectiveness due to having written most of
the programs and having modified all of them at one
time or another, a fair hourly rate.

If you put up with me thus far, please make a suggestion.

Many thanks,

Kindrick

Frederico Fonseca

2004-04-15, 4:30 pm

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:13:35 GMT, Kindrick Ownby <kownby@sonic.net>
wrote:
>
>Please forgive if this is too off topic.
>
>I am wondering what a contemporary reasonable hourly
>rate might be for design and implementation of new
>features in a COBOL application. The COBOL is archaic,
>dating from the IBM System/34.
>
>The situation - I am semi-retired, having been in the
>business since 1957. I have been working at home for
>the past 18 years, working on the same product, and
>have had virtually no contact with other programmers
>during that time.
>
>The application I support is owned by another party
>that ceased being active in 1994. I used to work with
>that entity, and now have the exclusive rights to
>maintain the master copy of the source and support
>users. All of the clients except one have either gone
>out of business or have replaced the system.
>
>The client pays me a small fixed fee each month for
>which I do maintenance, minor enhancements, and hand-
>holding. The client wants to continue to use the system
>as long as they can - it is a totally integrated and
>complete data processing package for a specific vertical
>market. It consists of 400,000+ lines of code.
>
>Lately, they have asked for modifications that rationally
>exceed the definitions of our agreement. I wish to bill
>for at least the design phase of any new feature at an
>hourly rate. I will happily do final implementation for
>a fixed fee if it is clear that we are both talking
>about the same thing.
>
>Since I have the exclusive right to the source, then I
>might be able to ask a very high price which they would
>pay if they wanted it enough. But I am interested in,
>given my effectiveness due to having written most of
>the programs and having modified all of them at one
>time or another, a fair hourly rate.

You failed to mention which country you live/work.

UK/Ireland - 30/60 UKP an hour for this would be perfectly acceptable.
Portugal - 30/50 Euro an hour may be acceptable.

Higher values may be acceptable depending on the company that needs
the work done.
I now of some people that are being charged 1400 Euros a day (200 an
hour) working for a bank.

Frederico Fonseca
ema il: frederico_fonseca at syssoft-int.com

docdwarf@panix.com

2004-04-15, 6:30 pm

In article <z9Bfc.5901$Fo4.72604@typhoon.sonic.net>,
Kindrick Ownby <kownby@sonic.net> wrote:

[snip]

>I have been working at home for
>the past 18 years, working on the same product, and
>have had virtually no contact with other programmers
>during that time.

[snip]

>Since I have the exclusive right to the source, then I
>might be able to ask a very high price which they would
>pay if they wanted it enough. But I am interested in,
>given my effectiveness due to having written most of
>the programs and having modified all of them at one
>time or another, a fair hourly rate.

What comes to mind is the old invoice of:

Hitting machine.......................$ 25
Knowing where to hit machine..........$99,975

You've been digging through their source for nigh a couple of decades
now... what would it cost them to not have this mod or to have to get a
whole new system from the ground up?

DD

Kindrick Ownby

2004-04-15, 7:30 pm

docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
> In article <z9Bfc.5901$Fo4.72604@typhoon.sonic.net>,
> Kindrick Ownby <kownby@sonic.net> wrote:
[...]
> What comes to mind is the old invoice of:
>
> Hitting machine.......................$ 25
> Knowing where to hit machine..........$99,975
>
> You've been digging through their source for nigh a couple of decades
> now... what would it cost them to not have this mod or to have to get a
> whole new system from the ground up?

Thanks for the response.

A business that used to use this product got a front-end
from one vendor, an accounting system from another vendor,
and then hired their CPA firm to write an interface between
them. They have invested 3+ megabucks and the thing is still
not right (and this process has been going on for 5+ years).

If they don't have the mod under discussion, their parent
company will force them to get a new system, which they
don't want to do at this time.

So, in the US, in today's climate, is $125/hr reasonable,
too high, too low?

I billed all the hours I wanted to work at $35/hr in the
mid 60's. This is about $195 today. Adjust that for the
experience and familiarity, and you get?

I just wonder what is fair.

Kindrick

Kindrick Ownby

2004-04-15, 7:30 pm

Frederico Fonseca wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:13:35 GMT, Kindrick Ownby <kownby@sonic.net>
> wrote:

> You failed to mention which country you live/work.

In the far north of California in the US.

> UK/Ireland - 30/60 UKP an hour for this would be perfectly acceptable.
> Portugal - 30/50 Euro an hour may be acceptable.
>
> Higher values may be acceptable depending on the company that needs
> the work done.
> I now of some people that are being charged 1400 Euros a day (200 an
> hour) working for a bank.

Thanks for the response.

Kindrick

=D=

2004-04-15, 11:30 pm

Kindrick Ownby <kownby@sonic.net> wrote in message news:<f4Efc.5989$Fo4.72814@typhoon.sonic.net>...
> ...
>
> So, in the US, in today's climate, is $125/hr reasonable,
> too high, too low?
>
> I billed all the hours I wanted to work at $35/hr in the
> mid 60's. This is about $195 today. Adjust that for the
> experience and familiarity, and you get?
>
> I just wonder what is fair.
>
> Kindrick

I suspect I'm low for some things, but my semi-retired situation is
very similar to yours and I get about all the hours I want at $65.
I've been known to halve that for teachers and good friends, double it
for lawyers.

docdwarf@panix.com

2004-04-16, 10:30 am

In article <f4Efc.5989$Fo4.72814@typhoon.sonic.net>,
Kindrick Ownby <kownby@sonic.net> wrote:
>docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>[...]
>
>Thanks for the response.
>
>A business that used to use this product got a front-end
>from one vendor, an accounting system from another vendor,
>and then hired their CPA firm to write an interface between
>them. They have invested 3+ megabucks and the thing is still
>not right (and this process has been going on for 5+ years).
>
>If they don't have the mod under discussion, their parent
>company will force them to get a new system, which they
>don't want to do at this time.
>
>So, in the US, in today's climate, is $125/hr reasonable,
>too high, too low?

What I am reading here is that if they do not have your mod then they are
essentially foing to have to flush 5+ years and 3+ megabucks down the
drain... in addition to whatever MommaCorp will force them to spend on a
new system.

This new system may terminate whatever stream of income you get from these
folks... another factor to be ciphered in.

>
>I billed all the hours I wanted to work at $35/hr in the
>mid 60's. This is about $195 today. Adjust that for the
>experience and familiarity, and you get?

I get to tell the client this sum, then, translates into that sum, now...
but since they're Such Nice Folks I will give this project full time and
attention, which (given my current state of doddering senility)
translates into US$150/hr for a minimum of 20hrs/wk for a minimum of (n)
w

s.

>
>I just wonder what is fair.

Something which I have seen vary a great deal depending on who is using
the term... or, as my Sainted Paternal Grandfather - may he sleep with the
angels! - once said: 'Anyone who told you that Life is Fair... lied.'

DD

stringer

2004-04-18, 2:30 am

In article <9d3c0262.0404151859.729d1fd8@posting.google.com>,
Merlin43PhD@netscape.net says...
>
Snip
>
>I suspect I'm low for some things, but my semi-retired situation is
>very similar to yours and I get about all the hours I want at $65.
>I've been known to halve that for teachers and good friends, double it
>for lawyers.

Remind me not to employ you then (I being a lowly lawyer) :-)

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