Cobol - Re: OT - Re: Program templates as Object Classes

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Re: OT - Re: Program templates as Object Classes

Richard

2004-12-10, 3:55 pm

> There's also the inefficiency factor of 18:1 when converting plants
to meat.

I very much prefer to have a half pound steak rather than a pile of
grass. In general, farm animals eat what I wouldn't, or can't. In many
cases byproducts of other food production, or rejected food of
inadequate quality, such as unripe, or hail damaged fruit, or even
insect damaged, is used as feedstock. If it wasn't used for animal feed
it would be a disposal problem.

Meat is a source of proteins and nutrients which are not found in
sufficient quantities in the usual vegetables or fruit.

Robert Wagner

2004-12-11, 3:55 am

On 10 Dec 2004 12:54:36 -0500, docdwarf@panix.com wrote:

>In article <0gljr09fva5hccq6tdsf4m176ui9or9lo9@4ax.com>,
>Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
>
>I guess that's what passes these days for 'compassionate conservatism'.

In a later retraction, she said "after everyone had left the building,
except the editors."

docdwarf@panix.com

2004-12-11, 3:55 am

In article <higkr0tec55pdk5bnac9el2sovhioloui1@4ax.com>,
Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
>On 10 Dec 2004 12:54:36 -0500, docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
>
>In a later retraction, she said "after everyone had left the building,
>except the editors."

My guess appears to be confirmed.

DD

LX-i

2004-12-11, 3:55 pm

Robert Wagner wrote:
>
> Don't blame supermarkets. Blame your neighbor who buys produce based
> on looks rather than taste. If people demanded taste, they'd get it.

You can easily observe looks before you buy. However, I think you'd get
some strange looks from the produce manager if you sampled taste before
you bought. :)

--
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LX-i

2004-12-11, 3:55 pm

Robert Wagner wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 17:47:12 -0500, Donald Tees
> <donald_tees@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> According to Ann Counter (right wing babe),

Ann Coulter (looks like your spell-checker got you...)

But you're right about the babe part... (anncoulter.org seems to not be
accepting connections, but there's a nice head shot of her here...)

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/...c20041021.shtml

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ LXi0007@Netscape.net ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.knology.net/~mopsmom/daniel ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ I do not read e-mail at the above address ~
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~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LX-i

2004-12-11, 3:55 pm

docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
> In article <0gljr09fva5hccq6tdsf4m176ui9or9lo9@4ax.com>,
> Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> I guess that's what passes these days for 'compassionate conservatism'.

I don't believe, your highness, that she's ever claimed to be a
compassionate conservative. She's more of a "tell-it-like-it-is"
conservative.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ LXi0007@Netscape.net ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.knology.net/~mopsmom/daniel ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ I do not read e-mail at the above address ~
~ Please see website if you wish to contact me privately ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

docdwarf@panix.com

2004-12-12, 3:55 am

In article <WsHud.6320$ZP5.2363@fe40.usenetserver.com>,
LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
>I don't believe, your highness, that she's ever claimed to be a
>compassionate conservative. She's more of a "tell-it-like-it-is"
>conservative.

I'm not sure what is intended by that; what was reported was that she has
told is her desire to see people die without benefit of trial or sentence.

DD

Robert Wagner

2004-12-12, 3:55 am

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 12:32:23 -0600, LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:

>Robert Wagner wrote:
>
>You can easily observe looks before you buy. However, I think you'd get
>some strange looks from the produce manager if you sampled taste before
>you bought. :)

The Fresh Market has 40 stores throughout the South, including one in
Montgomery on Eastern Blvd. (or East Blvd, depending on which road
signs you read). It's a yuppie 'supermarket' that sells premium
produce, bakery, deli and wine items. You won't find a five pound bag
of sugar there; they sell only items with a high gross profit percent.

Given that price is no object, one would think they'd at least have
good produce .. or bread. Nope, it's all show and little substance.

A Southern Season, in Chapel Hill NC, has 59K square feet of gourmet
food. It's one of the largest in the US. It too is all show and little
substance. For instance, it has dozens of hot sauces but doesn't have
the best-seller in Texas: Louisiana brand. It has lots of high-priced
peanut butter but doesn't have the winner: Better Than Peanut Butter,
which is made from peanut meal. It has soy sauces but doesn't have the
best: Angostura. It has orange marmelade, but doesn't have Wilkins.

It's obvious the buyer looks only at profit and knows nothing of
taste. What about customers? If they looked beyond show, the store
would no longer be in business.

Pete Dashwood

2004-12-12, 3:55 am

"Robert Wagner" <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote in message
news:f1dnr0tcejbcmgpr0fnmgu5igrhoc8k76i@
4ax.com...
> On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 12:32:23 -0600, LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
> The Fresh Market has 40 stores throughout the South, including one in
> Montgomery on Eastern Blvd. (or East Blvd, depending on which road
> signs you read). It's a yuppie 'supermarket' that sells premium
> produce, bakery, deli and wine items. You won't find a five pound bag
> of sugar there; they sell only items with a high gross profit percent.
>
> Given that price is no object, one would think they'd at least have
> good produce .. or bread. Nope, it's all show and little substance.
>
> A Southern Season, in Chapel Hill NC, has 59K square feet of gourmet
> food. It's one of the largest in the US. It too is all show and little
> substance. For instance, it has dozens of hot sauces but doesn't have
> the best-seller in Texas: Louisiana brand. It has lots of high-priced
> peanut butter but doesn't have the winner: Better Than Peanut Butter,
> which is made from peanut meal. It has soy sauces but doesn't have the
> best: Angostura. It has orange marmelade, but doesn't have Wilkins.
>
> It's obvious the buyer looks only at profit and knows nothing of
> taste. What about customers? If they looked beyond show, the store
> would no longer be in business.
>
Read your posts on this with interest, Robert.

Daniel's point is fair. You cannot go tasting goods before you buy them
(unless there is a very enlightened store manager who realises you will be a
good customer, and these are not likely to be found in major supermarkets.)

Obviously, as I don't live in the US I can't go and check out the stores you
mentioned above. (Man! How I would love to... <G> )

Nevetheless, I'm sure there are elements of truth in what you say and "show"
is probably a prime consideration in retailing.

But did you ever consider that all the things you describe as "best" are
only so to you? It is a subjective judgement. That doesn't make it invalid,
but it does mean that you should accept it as such.

All too often you post here on the basis that the "world according to
Wagner" is the only possible reality.

It isn't. I am interested in the "world according to Wagner" because I think
you have some very valid underlying points to make and your posts are
usually interesting. But time and again you simply can't seem to qualify
what you say. It leads to some strong reactions. I guess, if your purpose is
simply to cause a reaction then it is a winning strategy for you <G>, but
I'd hope that isn't so...

So, where DO you obtain the products that you consider "best"?

Pete.

Robert Wagner

2004-12-12, 3:55 pm

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:55:57 +1300, "Pete Dashwood"
<dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:

>
>"Robert Wagner" <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote in message
> news:f1dnr0tcejbcmgpr0fnmgu5igrhoc8k76i@
4ax.com...

>It isn't. I am interested in the "world according to Wagner" because I think
>you have some very valid underlying points to make and your posts are
>usually interesting. But time and again you simply can't seem to qualify
>what you say. It leads to some strong reactions. I guess, if your purpose is
>simply to cause a reaction then it is a winning strategy for you <G>, but
>I'd hope that isn't so...

If my goal had been to evoke a strong reaction (from U.K. types), I
would have mentioned Marmite. The few jars at Southern Season looked
like they'd been on the shelf for years, and weren't categorized with
spreads. Or Bird's Custard Powder. Or Talisker Scotch, from the Isle
of Skye.

Down the street from Southern Season, a Harris-Teeter supermarket
sells bread from Nancy Silverton's La Brea Bakery. What's wrong with
this picture?

>So, where DO you obtain the products that you consider "best"?

Where they are produced:

Bread: Acme, Oakland, Ca
Beer (stout): Cookerstown Brewery, NY and Red Hook, Seattle
Pizza: Grimaldi's and Tottono's, Brooklyn
Beignets: Cafe du Monde, New Orleans
Cherries: High Rolls, NM
Lemons: Oxnard, Ca
Cantaloupes: Pecos, Texas

LX-i

2004-12-12, 3:55 pm

docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
> In article <WsHud.6320$ZP5.2363@fe40.usenetserver.com>,
> LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm not sure what is intended by that; what was reported was that she has
> told is her desire to see people die without benefit of trial or sentence.

And you ascribed to that view the label "compassionate conservatism", a
label that she herself has not ascribed to it. That's what I meant.
Now, if W had said that, you might have a point - *he's* the one who
purports to be compassionate.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ LXi0007@Netscape.net ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.knology.net/~mopsmom/daniel ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ I do not read e-mail at the above address ~
~ Please see website if you wish to contact me privately ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~
~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

James J. Gavan

2004-12-12, 8:55 pm

LX-i wrote:

> Robert Wagner wrote:
>
>
>
> You can easily observe looks before you buy. However, I think you'd
> get some strange looks from the produce manager if you sampled taste
> before you bought. :)
>
>
Different time, different place. Back when I was sixteen and WWII was
just over, more shops were opening, introducing Continental goods I had
never dreamed of. Same applies actually to UK cheeses - were basically
down to cheddar, cheddar.... and that gawdawful Spam from Uncle Sam -
but thanks Uncle Sam, anyway.

I moved into a treasure trove of foods. The more 'affluent' grocery
stores were starting to stock Continental cheeses, primarily French at
the time. With my modest wages, I would pay a regular trip each Saturday
lunchtime, (worked Saturday mornings), to such a store and buy a 1/4 lb
of something. The middle-aged counter-manager got to know me and it
became a regular routine to sample a different cheese or Continental
type sausage/meat each w

. Then I would spend my few pennies. Great fun.

As I got older then experimented on French wines, (no samplers on those
I'm afraid :-) ), primarily white - but now have settled on a preference
for German white medium.

I have very occasionally asked for a sample currently - Halva - I think
it was. No likee - just like the famous Norwegian Gejtost - it's like
eating sweet fudge. But agreed, currently help yourself to a taster, not
only funny looks, more likely to finish up in jail !

Jimmy

docdwarf@panix.com

2004-12-12, 8:55 pm

In article <Oh0vd.6737$ZP5.1573@fe40.usenetserver.com>,
LX-i <lxi0007@netscape.net> wrote:
>docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
>And you ascribed to that view the label "compassionate conservatism", a
>label that she herself has not ascribed to it.

Being completely and utterly unfamiliar with her work - outside of that
which has been posted here - I was unaware of this. Thanks greatly for
the clarification.

DD

James J. Gavan

2004-12-12, 8:55 pm

Robert Wagner wrote:

>If my goal had been to evoke a strong reaction (from U.K. types), I
>would have mentioned Marmite. The few jars at Southern Season looked
>like they'd been on the shelf for years, and weren't categorized with
>spreads. Or Bird's Custard Powder. Or Talisker Scotch, from the Isle
>of Skye.
>
>
>
Rather looks like the Marmite may well have been on the shelf for
sometime. Sadly here, Calgary, using the Pareto 80-20 rule, they keep
discreetly deleting items, until the retailer, if he follows Pareto's
logic, finds himself with no product looking up his ass ! Same as
Marmite there's Vegemite from Kraft and Bovril (the paste version) from
God knows who.

Reading recent copies of the 'W

ly Express' (for ex-pats), It becomes
really difficult to know who owns what in the UK of the favourite brands
one grew up with. That's that commercial obsession to grow, otherwise
you will die - so many US companies have grabbed whole chunks of UK
brand names. Probably got it wrong but Bird's Custard Powder is now
owned by Kraft - quite a possibility they may kill it off, along with
two ancillary products Dream Whip, Something....Topping. A stalwart,
Branston Pickle (chutney family), is a possible loser. Eccles cakes -
the original firm making them no longer makes Eccles cakes - but I buy
them regularly here, baked in Calgary. (Before you ask, flaky pastry and
centred with a few raisins, currants and a little spice - nutmeg/allspice).

Remember me and my dairy company Unigate - doesn't exist any more. Way
after I left they dabbled on the Continent producing dairy products,
sort of different versions of yogurts, desserts etc. Anyway complete
business sold off to a new company called Uniq. There were I gather,
three major dairy distributors supplying to supermarkets, one being
Dairy Crest. For whatever reason, Uniq sold off the "St. Ivel" brand
name to Dairy Crest. ( BTW "Ivel" is a play on "Yeovil" the Somerset
town where Aplin and Barrett first introduced the name with St. Ivel
Lactic Cheese and St. Ivel spreads (fish, chicken pates etc...)

In their rapacious wisdom Wal Mart (aka ASDA - their UK supermarket
chain), decided they didn't want three suppliers for dairy products -
giving it all to one (I wonder why - so they can wring them dry ?),
which put the other two out of the loop - one being Dairy Crest. Now the
latter is 'consolidating' its operations and is seriously considering
closing down the 'St Ivel' brand-name altogether.

Talisker Scotch - never hoid of it. But I do have a rather neat drop of
Laphroaig (pronounced "La-froyg", according to the label), plus a wee
dram of Glenfiddich. Both are nectar to be sipped upon, with absolutely
no addition of water, soda or whatever.

Jimmy

docdwarf@panix.com

2004-12-13, 3:55 am

In article <A93vd.497531$%k.254210@pd7tw2no>,
James J. Gavan <jjgavan@shaw.ca> wrote:

[snip]

>Talisker Scotch - never hoid of it. But I do have a rather neat drop of
>Laphroaig (pronounced "La-froyg", according to the label), plus a wee
>dram of Glenfiddich.

During my Drinking Daze Scotch was my primary hobby; if you enjoy the
Laphroaig you might want to experiment with a bottle of Lagavulin.

DD

Robert Wagner

2004-12-13, 3:55 am

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:15:05 GMT, "James J. Gavan" <jjgavan@shaw.ca>
wrote:

> As I got older then experimented on French wines, (no samplers on those
>I'm afraid :-) ), primarily white - but now have settled on a preference
>for German white medium.

Most wine is a rip-off. It costs more to make the bottle than the
contents. It costs less than $1 to make a $10 bottle of wine. On the
rare occasions I buy wine, I buy something packaged in a box. It's
cheaper and lasts a month without oxidizing. It's not all cheap 'jug'
wine; good wineries are starting to use boxes.

Pete Dashwood

2004-12-13, 8:55 am

"Robert Wagner" <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote in message
news:h07qr0d433cqut7qfo139ipnd5gp2gh887@
4ax.com...
> On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:15:05 GMT, "James J. Gavan" <jjgavan@shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
> Most wine is a rip-off. It costs more to make the bottle than the
> contents. It costs less than $1 to make a $10 bottle of wine. On the
> rare occasions I buy wine, I buy something packaged in a box. It's
> cheaper and lasts a month without oxidizing. It's not all cheap 'jug'
> wine; good wineries are starting to use boxes.
>
>
Yeah, right... <G>

I'll mention it at the next meeting of the local Purplefoot Wine Club I
belong to...

In this country chateau du cardboard is still for people who don't
care...Having said that, I have found some of it not bad, but I have never
had better wine out of a box than that which came from a bottle (anywhere on
Earth...).

Again, Robert, it comes down to personal opinion.

Pete.

Robert Wagner

2004-12-13, 3:55 pm

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:15:10 +1300, "Pete Dashwood"
<dashwood@enternet.co.nz> wrote:

>"Robert Wagner" <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> wrote in message
> news:f1ugr0p7a8pajavk0b15sof2bmca7rt74r@
4ax.com...

>So you have quoted at great length two very old experiments, carried out by
>highly reputable academia, and then decided that the rest of New Zealand
>must be doing it. Things don't work like that here... The research goes in
>and then the battle for the hearts and minds of the New Zealand farmer
>begins... These people are not easily hornswoggled or impressed by
>academics. They implement things that make sense and look profitable. Grass
>is free (once you have covered the capital outlay and minimum maintenance
>for fencing, irrigation (which is mainly natural) and fertilizing
>(thoughtfully provided by the stock you raise on it), and land is so
>plentiful here that we pile it up in heaps...

Thanks for clearing that up, with eloquence.

>Your references are disappointingly suspect. I expected more from you.

The absence of more convincing evidence strengthens your rebuttal.

>You either ignored what I wrote or didn't understand it. The human form of
>"mad cow disease" is a variant of CJD and is properly termed vCJD. This is
>the one that jumped from catttle to humans. CJD has always been present in
>Humans (a tiny percentage of us).

-- begin quotation --
BSE may cause more CJD cases than thought

The eating of BSE-infected meat might cause classical CJD in people,
as well as variant CJD, a new mouse study suggests.

Classical CJD, also called sporadic CJD (sCJD), is generally believed
to develop spontaneously and existed before the BSE epidemic in
British cattle, while variant CJD (vCJD) is thought to be the human
form of mad cow disease.

There has been a recent rise in cases of sCJD, in the UK in
particular, but it was thought this was due to better surveillance and
diagnosis. But the surprising new finding adds weight to suggestions
that the rise is in fact linked to the BSE epidemic.

The new work involved injecting the BSE infectious agent - a misfolded
prion protein - into the brains of mice. The mice had been genetically
modified to act as human models of infection and to be susceptible to
CJD.

As expected, some of these mice developed symptoms and a molecular
subtype of prion protein misfolding associated with vCJD. But others
developed a sub-type associated with the most common of three strains
of sCJD previously identified in people.

"This finding has important potential implications," the team led by
John Collinge at the MRC Prion Unit in London, UK, writes in the EMBO
Journal. "It raises the possibility that some humans infected with BSE
prions may develop a clinical disease indistinguishable from classical
CJD."

Models predicting the future extent of the human epidemic associated
with eating BSE-infected meat are based on the observation of vCJD in
the population. But if BSE prions can also cause sCJD, these models
will underestimate the ultimate human death toll. To date, 117 people
have died in the UK from vCJD.

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopi...p?id=ns99993122

LX-i

2004-12-14, 3:55 pm

James J. Gavan

2004-12-16, 3:55 pm

LX-i

2004-12-18, 12:46 pm

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