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Clipper to Windows. xBase++ or xHarbour ?
|
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| bill robertson 2006-06-17, 7:55 am |
| Jasim A Basheer wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> I would be obliged if you could provide me info whether you have used
> it in a Network environment and if so, how many clients and which
Hi Jasim
I have used xHarbour in several small network environments. The networks
are peer to peer windows systems with a mixture of win98Se, winME and
winXP. The number of clients are only on the order of 10-12 in any
system and the databases are small with most tables having only a few
thousand records. I haven't noticed any problems and these systems have
been running for a couple of years compiled with xHarbour.
| |
| Jasim A Basheer 2006-06-17, 7:55 am |
| Hi Bill,
Many thanks for your reply. I do understand that xHarbour being
open-source has an advantage with the large developer base supporting
it.
I would be obliged if you could provide me info whether you have used
it in a Network environment and if so, how many clients and which
server.
I could evaluate it in single user mode and found it working good. But
we are also much concerned about database integrity/record lock
management in DBFNTX using either xHarbour or xBase.
Thanks again for your help.
Regards,
Jasim A Basheer.
bill robertson wrote:
> jab.easyaccounts@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Jasim
>
> I ran into problems getting clipper applications to run on windows xp
> systems several years ago. I evaluated harbour, xharbour and xbase++
> (v1.82) probably 4 years ago. I chose xbase++ because it compiled my
> programs with fewer changes and had a windows printer class that made
> printing much easier. xbase++ required several dll files for your
> programs to run.
>
> I never liked having the dll files but it worked OK. I kept looking at
> harbour and xharbour and before long xHarbour was more compatible with
> my clipper applications than xbase++. I switched from xbase++ to
> xHarbour after using xbase++ about a year. In that time, xharbour added
> windows class printing and ported libraries such as nanforum and clipper
> tools that for me were better than xbase++ since I used those libraries.
> xharbour has an excellend news server in which you can get prompt
> answers to any problems. With xharbour, you have the source code so you
> aren't that dependant on microsoft or the compiler company making your
> code not run.
| |
| Norman Perelson 2006-06-17, 7:55 am |
|
<jab.easyaccounts@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150454050.060524.196410@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I have a client with 30+ nodes on a Novell netware server. We have
> decided to move on from Clipper to either xHarbour or xBase.
>
> We had some good references about the stability of xBase. On evaluating
> xHarbour, we find it is also robust and has a large developer network.
> We are in a dilemma of choosing either of the two products since they
> seems to be on par with each other.
>
> I would be very obliged if anyone could give some comparisons or
> experiences about these products. We are very particular about the
> stability of the output EXE as downtime would be expensive since my
> client is operating in the retail sector.
>
> Also any reference to the real-word applications run on xHarbour would
> be welcome.
>
> Thanks for your attention.
>
> Jasim A Basheer
>
Hi Jasim,
With 30+ nodes you really should use a Linux server. Look at FlagShip
4.48 - it is well documented and very stable. And it is very good for
wide-area-networking.
I also use Xbase++ and find it very stable, but the full program with DLLs
must be installed on each workstation so it is more difficult to administer
than the Linux solution - especially if you do remote support. (You could,
of course, write a program that automatically updates workstations when a
central program is updated.) Also, because the program is actually running
on the workstation, there is a lot of data traffic through the network.
HTH
Norman
---
Norman Perelson
www.shopkeeper.co.za
| |
| fatfat 2006-06-17, 7:55 am |
| my xbase road map
clipper/console -> xbase++/console -> xharbour/console -> xharbour/WVW ->
xharbour/Minigui
<jab.easyaccounts@gmail.com>
???????:1150454050.060524.196410@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I have a client with 30+ nodes on a Novell netware server. We have
> decided to move on from Clipper to either xHarbour or xBase.
>
> We had some good references about the stability of xBase. On evaluating
> xHarbour, we find it is also robust and has a large developer network.
> We are in a dilemma of choosing either of the two products since they
> seems to be on par with each other.
>
> I would be very obliged if anyone could give some comparisons or
> experiences about these products. We are very particular about the
> stability of the output EXE as downtime would be expensive since my
> client is operating in the retail sector.
>
> Also any reference to the real-word applications run on xHarbour would
> be welcome.
>
> Thanks for your attention.
>
> Jasim A Basheer
>
| |
| bill robertson 2006-06-17, 7:55 am |
| jab.easyaccounts@gmail.com wrote:
> I would be very obliged if anyone could give some comparisons or
> experiences about these products. We are very particular about the
> stability of the output EXE as downtime would be expensive since my
> client is operating in the retail sector.
>
Hi Jasim
I ran into problems getting clipper applications to run on windows xp
systems several years ago. I evaluated harbour, xharbour and xbase++
(v1.82) probably 4 years ago. I chose xbase++ because it compiled my
programs with fewer changes and had a windows printer class that made
printing much easier. xbase++ required several dll files for your
programs to run.
I never liked having the dll files but it worked OK. I kept looking at
harbour and xharbour and before long xHarbour was more compatible with
my clipper applications than xbase++. I switched from xbase++ to
xHarbour after using xbase++ about a year. In that time, xharbour added
windows class printing and ported libraries such as nanforum and clipper
tools that for me were better than xbase++ since I used those libraries.
xharbour has an excellend news server in which you can get prompt
answers to any problems. With xharbour, you have the source code so you
aren't that dependant on microsoft or the compiler company making your
code not run.
| |
| jab.easyaccounts@gmail.com 2006-06-17, 7:55 am |
| I have a client with 30+ nodes on a Novell netware server. We have
decided to move on from Clipper to either xHarbour or xBase.
We had some good references about the stability of xBase. On evaluating
xHarbour, we find it is also robust and has a large developer network.
We are in a dilemma of choosing either of the two products since they
seems to be on par with each other.
I would be very obliged if anyone could give some comparisons or
experiences about these products. We are very particular about the
stability of the output EXE as downtime would be expensive since my
client is operating in the retail sector.
Also any reference to the real-word applications run on xHarbour would
be welcome.
Thanks for your attention.
Jasim A Basheer
| |
| PeterH 2006-06-17, 6:55 pm |
| Fatfat,
Are you recommending going direct from clipper/console to xharbour/Minigui
and not investing time with the others, or did you gain experience by taking
the detours?
Regards,
PeterH
"fatfat" <fatfat@fatfat.com> wrote in message
news:4492d084$1_3@rain.i-cable.com...
> my xbase road map
> clipper/console -> xbase++/console -> xharbour/console -> xharbour/WVW ->
> xharbour/Minigui
>
> <jab.easyaccounts@gmail.com>
> ???????:1150454050.060524.196410@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
| |
| Klas Engwall 2006-06-17, 6:55 pm |
| Jasim,
>I would be obliged if you could provide me info whether you have used
>it in a Network environment and if so, how many clients and which
>server.
>
>I could evaluate it in single user mode and found it working good. But
>we are also much concerned about database integrity/record lock
>management in DBFNTX using either xHarbour or xBase.
You forgot to ask this particular follow-up question in your thread in
the Xharbour newsgroup :-). If you do you will hear about the very
reliable DBFNTX and DBFCDX RDDs written by Przemyslaw Czerpak. I
believe there are members of that newsgroup who use them in much
larger environments than the one you mentioned.
If you intend to run your old Clipper applications against the same
set of DBF/NTX/CDX files as your xHarbour version you must make sure
that the collation tabels are identical, or you will sooner or later
be bitten by index corruption (Clippers collation is strange in some
places in some languages).
Regards,
Klas
-------
klas dot engwall at engwall dot com
http://www.engwall.com/clipper/
The LFN Library for Clipper
The LanMan Library for Clipper
The NFPAT1A Timeslice release patch for the Nanforum Toolkit
| |
| Klas Engwall 2006-06-17, 6:55 pm |
| Peter,
[rearranged for clarity - please don't top post]
[color=darkred]
>Fatfat,
>Are you recommending going direct from clipper/console to xharbour/Minigui
>and not investing time with the others, or did you gain experience by taking
>the detours?
I suppose that Fatfat's detours are the result of steps taken at
various points in time when the status of the different projects was
not the same as today.
IMHO, the even steps can be skipped in favour of the odd ones, that
is, Clipper/console -> xHarbour/console -> xHarbour/one_of_the_GUIs
(there are other GUIs than Minigui that are worth investigating)
The point in first going to xHarbour/console is that it is a fairly
small step from Clipper (unless you use third party functions that
require a lot of work to convert). When you see that everything is
working as expected you can start the conversion to GUI and run both
versions side by side while working on it (with OEM/ANSI conversion).
Although a lot of effort has been put into making the xHarbour RDDs
Clipper compatible, there is always a risk that something in the
collation tables differs. I have found one such inconsistency in
Clipper's NTXSWE.OBJ, for example. So I would recommend first
switching to xHarbour/console (and reindexing everything) instead of
trying to run an xHarbour/GUI-work-in-progress side by side with the
Clipper application.
Regards,
Klas
-------
klas dot engwall at engwall dot com
http://www.engwall.com/clipper/
The LFN Library for Clipper
The LanMan Library for Clipper
The NFPAT1A Timeslice release patch for the Nanforum Toolkit
| |
| fatfat 2006-06-18, 3:55 am |
| clipper/console -> xharbour/console which required minimal changes to get
into xharbour environment such as make/link script, unsupported 3rd parties
function, while this step retains all dbf/index files, memory file... etc,
no major source changes, it's only require about 5% source code
changes about (2 - 3 w s works for my case )
xharbour/console ->xharbour/GWVW, it required less than 1% of code change to
step into this mode, this mode can select your own display font instead of
console font, and additional GUI element's without huge source change get
into GUI (required 2 - 7 days works)
xharbour/GWVW ->xharbour/Minigui, this will need total rewrite about 65-70%
of source code in order to get into GUI interface (required 12-24 months)
additions changes
DBF/CDX -> DBF/ADS -> SQL/MEDIACATOR (MYSQL/MS SQL) -> SQLRDD
(this changes required 1-2ws each)
"PeterH" <petermhill@verizon.net> 撰寫於郵件新聞:uAXkg.1872$Za5.844@trnddc04...
> Fatfat,
> Are you recommending going direct from clipper/console to xharbour/Minigui
> and not investing time with the others, or did you gain experience by
> taking
> the detours?
> Regards,
> PeterH
>
> "fatfat" <fatfat@fatfat.com> wrote in message
> news:4492d084$1_3@rain.i-cable.com...
>
>
| |
| fatfat 2006-06-18, 3:55 am |
| and when selected xbase++ b'cos xharbour is not that mature at that time, it
work's but can't support DBCS
"fatfat" <fatfat@fatfat.com> 撰寫於郵件新聞:4492d084$1_3@rain.i-cable.com...
> my xbase road map
> clipper/console -> xbase++/console -> xharbour/console -> xharbour/WVW ->
> xharbour/Minigui
>
> <jab.easyaccounts@gmail.com>
> ???????:1150454050.060524.196410@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
| |
| PeterH 2006-06-18, 6:55 pm |
| fatfat and Klas,
Thanks for your time and explanations.
I got to the xHarbour->console, took me a bit more that 2-3 ws I'm
afraid, but all in all it wasn't to bad.
Now I am trying to add a windows look and feel to the app ( 60,000 lines ).
I am not up to a re-write so I hope GTWVW will improve the app.
I am using xHB.
I am having trouble getting started. like finding example codes, etc.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks again,
PeterH
| |
| Jasim A Basheer 2006-06-19, 3:55 am |
| Hi Klas,
Thanks for you reply.. It is true I forgot to ask about dbfntx
compatibility in xHarbour.. but thanks for assuring me about the
stability of DbfNtx.
We do not use any international characters in the database, and so
havent made any country-specific changes. Would that solve any possible
doubts about collation incompatiblity?
Regards,
Jasim A Basheer.
Klas Engwall wrote:
> Jasim,
>
>
> You forgot to ask this particular follow-up question in your thread in
> the Xharbour newsgroup :-). If you do you will hear about the very
> reliable DBFNTX and DBFCDX RDDs written by Przemyslaw Czerpak. I
> believe there are members of that newsgroup who use them in much
> larger environments than the one you mentioned.
>
> If you intend to run your old Clipper applications against the same
> set of DBF/NTX/CDX files as your xHarbour version you must make sure
> that the collation tabels are identical, or you will sooner or later
> be bitten by index corruption (Clippers collation is strange in some
> places in some languages).
>
> Regards,
> Klas
>
> -------
> klas dot engwall at engwall dot com
>
> http://www.engwall.com/clipper/
>
> The LFN Library for Clipper
> The LanMan Library for Clipper
> The NFPAT1A Timeslice release patch for the Nanforum Toolkit
| |
| budyanto 2006-06-19, 6:55 pm |
| fatfat wrote:
> xharbour/console ->xharbour/GWVW, it required less than 1% of code change to
> step into this mode, this mode can select your own display font instead of
> console font, and additional GUI element's without huge source change get
> into GUI (required 2 - 7 days works)
>
> xharbour/GWVW ->xharbour/Minigui, this will need total rewrite about 65-70%
> of source code in order to get into GUI interface (required 12-24 months)
Instead of investing time for a rewrite, I am now continuing developing
my application (currently 500+ modules and growing) with
xharbour/gtwvw:
http://www.csacomputer.com/gtwvw/zac/
The structure of the application is not changed, such that I can still
build the application into its old looking console mode, just in case
some client requires that :-).
Regards,
Budyanto
| |
| PeterH 2006-06-19, 6:55 pm |
|
"budyanto" <budyanto@centrin.net.id> wrote in message
news:1150733053.482476.53960@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> fatfat wrote:
change to[color=darkred]
of[color=darkred]
get[color=darkred]
65-70%[color=darkred]
months)[color=darkred]
>
> Instead of investing time for a rewrite, I am now continuing developing
> my application (currently 500+ modules and growing) with
> xharbour/gtwvw:
>
> http://www.csacomputer.com/gtwvw/zac/
>
> The structure of the application is not changed, such that I can still
> build the application into its old looking console mode, just in case
> some client requires that :-).
>
> Regards,
> Budyanto
Bydyanto, I really like the look on the screenshots from the link. I would
like to achieve this appearance.
I am  on the Zackery part, Isn't that an old Clipper Code generator
from Zac Catalogs?
Has it been upgraded to handle GTWVW? Or do you handle the GTWVW parts
manually? Where can I find some code samples? I am having getting started.
Thanks for the information,
PeterH
>
| |
| Klas Engwall 2006-06-19, 6:55 pm |
| Jasim,
>We do not use any international characters in the database, and so
>havent made any country-specific changes. Would that solve any possible
>doubts about collation incompatiblity?
I guess it would, but I never had a reason to test _without_
international characters, so don't take my word for it. One simple
test you can make is to create a dbf with one field, one character
wide, and populate 256 records with chr(0) up to chr(255). Then create
an index with each compiler and dump the result (with record numbers)
to a text file. Finally compare the results from the different
compilers and you will have the answer.
Regards
Klas
-------
klas dot engwall at engwall dot com
http://www.engwall.com/clipper/
The LFN Library for Clipper
The LanMan Library for Clipper
The NFPAT1A Timeslice release patch for the Nanforum Toolkit
| |
| Klas Engwall 2006-06-19, 6:55 pm |
| Peter,
>I am having trouble getting started. like finding example codes, etc.
>Any advice would be appreciated.
I saw in a later message that you have already found Budyanto's GTWVW
site. For examples in general look at the "tests" directory in the CVS
tree.
Regards,
Klas
-------
klas dot engwall at engwall dot com
http://www.engwall.com/clipper/
The LFN Library for Clipper
The LanMan Library for Clipper
The NFPAT1A Timeslice release patch for the Nanforum Toolkit
| |
| PeterH 2006-06-19, 6:55 pm |
|
"Klas Engwall" <klas.engwall@nospam.please> wrote in message
news:44973109.335732948@nntpserver.swip.net...
> Peter,
>
>
> I saw in a later message that you have already found Budyanto's GTWVW
> site. For examples in general look at the "tests" directory in the CVS
> tree.
>
> Regards,
> Klas
>
Thanks Klas, I very much appreciate your advice.
I use the commercial version, so I am not familiar with the CVS tree. I was
able to browse though the "tests" directory but nothing jumped out saying it
was a WVW_ "sample". I don't know if I was in the correct place or not.
I was in
http://xharbour.cvs.sourceforge.net...s/?sortdir=down
Is this the correct location?
Regards,
PeterH
| |
| budyanto 2006-06-20, 7:55 am |
| Peter,
PeterH wrote:
> Bydyanto, I really like the look on the screenshots from the link. I would
> like to achieve this appearance.
> I am on the Zackery part, Isn't that an old Clipper Code generator
> from Zac Catalogs?
Yes it is. Maybe I am the only person in the world that's still using
this software :-).
> Has it been upgraded to handle GTWVW? Or do you handle the GTWVW parts
> manually?
No, Zach hasn't been upgraded to handle xHarbour/gtwvw (and I guess it
never will). Fortunately, Zach provided source code of its runtime
library so I can modify it to handle gtwvw. In total I have invested a
big amount of time to modify this code, but I did it gradually. (The
samples in the introduction page illustrates how one may do the gradual
change into his code.)
If one has a consistent coding style throughout his application, the
chance is good that he can apply gtwvw changes easily (as in mine or
Fatfat's case).
> Where can I find some code samples? I am having getting started.
General, simple samples of gtwvw can be found at xHarbour's CVS tree:
http://xharbour.cvs.sourceforge.net.../gtwvw/samples/
If you are reviewing the samples therein, please keep in mind that
there are many "smarter" ways to using gtwvw into your application,
other than the ones shown in the samples. (There are some brief
discussions in xHarbour's NG about it.)
HTH,
Budyanto
| |
| Klas Engwall 2006-06-24, 7:55 am |
| Peter,
>Thanks Klas, I very much appreciate your advice.
You're welcome
>I use the commercial version, so I am not familiar with the CVS tree.
For me it is the other way around :-).
>I was
>able to browse though the "tests" directory but nothing jumped out saying it
>was a WVW_ "sample". I don't know if I was in the correct place or not.
>I was in
>http://xharbour.cvs.sourceforge.net...s/?sortdir=down
>Is this the correct location?
Yes, that is where examples *in general* are. Examples for contribs
etc are ususally located in each specific sub-tree. Like the link
Budyanto posted in the meantime.
Even if you don't intend to build the compiler and other binaries
yourself it might be a good idea to do a checkout from CVS from time
to time for the ideas that samples and extras provide. I find that I
search my local CVS tree frequently for all kinds of things.
Regards,
Klas
-------
klas dot engwall at engwall dot com
http://www.engwall.com/clipper/
The LFN Library for Clipper
The LanMan Library for Clipper
The NFPAT1A Timeslice release patch for the Nanforum Toolkit
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