C - A couple of questions...

Author

A couple of questions...

Simon

2004-03-26, 11:09 pm

Hi,

Just wondering when C will get support for OOP? Also, when it does,
will global data/functions still be allowed or will they need to be
static members of a class like in C#?

TIA

Malcolm

2004-03-26, 11:09 pm

"Simon" <some_spare_id@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> Just wondering when C will get support for OOP?
>
Probably never. C++ already exists for those who like objects, and there is
little point in extending C for a second time.
>
> Also, when it does, will global data/functions still be allowed or will
> they need to be static members of a class like in C#?
>
Backwards compatibility means that any ANSI-compliant C you write now should
still be compilable into the foreseeable future.

Default User

2004-03-26, 11:09 pm

Simon wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Just wondering when C will get support for OOP?

Tuesday.

Brian Rodenborn

jacob navia

2004-03-26, 11:09 pm

"Simon" <some_spare_id@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:82ca3381.0403261354.5de67625@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> Just wondering when C will get support for OOP? Also, when it does,
> will global data/functions still be allowed or will they need to be
> static members of a class like in C#?
>
> TIA

Hi Simon

I am not convinced that the OO paradigm is necessary for C.
What makes C go against the trend is precisely that is has
no "central dogma" or paradigm on how to organize the
software.

This can be seen as a weakness or as a strength, it depends.

If you need support for this kind of programming there are
a lot of OO languages like, for instance, the new OO language
of the day: C#.

After the C++, Java, C# does it again.

The problem with those approaches is that they pay a high price
in dependency of external libraries (C#) and in speed (Java+C#)
or pay an exponential increase of complexity (C++).

The speed of C# is not exactly the speed of C. As the
machines improve however, this is less and less of
importance..

Maybe.

I see with a certain aprehension
the moment when a new quantum computer will get
bogged down writing hello world...

In C#, for instance, you program for an abstract
machine (like Java) where you need a complex
automata (the virtual machine) to interpret your
program instead of directly translate the language
into machine instructions.

You depend on this automata (fournished by Microsoft Corp)
to generate the actual machine instructions, or you depend
on an interpreter fournished (for Java) by Sun Corp.

Java and C# suffer from the same problem. Low speed
and low scalaibity.

This is not a problem of course, if the application
environment doesn't require a lot of speed. But
Java (and soon C#) meet the wall sooner when the
scalability of the application is important. With its
frugal nature, C is better adapted to high demand
applications and systems programming.

C++ doesn't suffer as much as Java/C# from this
problem, since the virtual machine of C++ is very
similar to C, i.e. there is a reasonable abstraction
of a sequential processor and a concept of storage as
just a linear array of cells.

C++ suffers from obesity however, and it is this
problem that prompted the development of more
"simpler" languages like Java or C#.

C doesn't have this problems, but, with a price to pay.
Development in C is more difficult and the environment
is less forgiving.

You get a freedom of expression that leaves all other
languages behind however. That is why any computer language
(except C++) can be written in C: from Eiffel to lisp+clos, or
you name it. It is precisely because this lack of
orientation of C.

jacob

Artie Gold

2004-03-27, 11:50 pm

Default User wrote:
> Simon wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Tuesday.
>
At 4:37pm UTC. Unless it's raining.
>
>
> Brian Rodenborn

--ag

Joona I Palaste

2004-03-27, 11:51 pm

Default User <first.last@boeing.com.invalid> scribbled the following:
> Simon wrote:
[color=darkred]
> Tuesday.

Have you been watching too much Star Trek?

--
/-- Joona Palaste (palaste@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"Insanity is to be shared."
- Tailgunner

jacob navia

2004-03-27, 11:51 pm

"Joona I Palaste" <palaste@cc.helsinki.fi> a écrit dans le message de
news:c443ff$83a$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> Default User <first.last@boeing.com.invalid> scribbled the following:
>
>
> Have you been watching too much Star Trek?

It would be interesting to know why you think like this.

I tried to give my personal opinion why OO languages
will never be incorporated into C in another message in
this same thread.

What do you think?

Joona I Palaste

2004-03-27, 11:51 pm

jacob navia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> scribbled the following:
> "Joona I Palaste" <palaste@cc.helsinki.fi> a écrit dans le message de
> news:c443ff$83a$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
[color=darkred]
> It would be interesting to know why you think like this.

> I tried to give my personal opinion why OO languages
> will never be incorporated into C in another message in
> this same thread.

> What do you think?

Have you seen the part of "Star Trek VII: Generations" where Admiral
James T. Kirk is asking the captain of the USS Enterprise when various
necessary things should be getting installed on the ship?

--
/-- Joona Palaste (palaste@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"Normal is what everyone else is, and you're not."
- Dr. Tolian Soran

jacob navia

2004-03-27, 11:51 pm

"Joona I Palaste" <palaste@cc.helsinki.fi> a écrit dans le message de
news:c44but$cjl$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
I said:
>
>

You answered

> Have you seen the part of "Star Trek VII: Generations" where Admiral
> James T. Kirk is asking the captain of the USS Enterprise when various
> necessary things should be getting installed on the ship?

Mmm... you mean then that OO is a necessary thing to
be installed in C?

I do not think that an Admiral is necessary at all, that's why
I did not watch that famous series... But anyway, OO
shouldn't be installed in C, at least in my opinion,
to keep in-topic.

I explained why in that other message.

So I would say to that Admiral:

Do not need it... Sir!

Joona I Palaste

2004-03-27, 11:51 pm

jacob navia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> scribbled the following:
> "Joona I Palaste" <palaste@cc.helsinki.fi> a écrit dans le message de
> news:c44but$cjl$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> I said:
[color=darkred]
> You answered

[color=darkred]
> Mmm... you mean then that OO is a necessary thing to
> be installed in C?

> I do not think that an Admiral is necessary at all, that's why
> I did not watch that famous series... But anyway, OO
> shouldn't be installed in C, at least in my opinion,
> to keep in-topic.

> I explained why in that other message.

> So I would say to that Admiral:

> Do not need it... Sir!

Now it is clear you have not seen the part I am speaking about. The
part goes something like this:

Kirk: Where are the <such and such things>?
Captain: They've not been installed yet.
Kirk: When are they going to be installed?
Captain: Tuesday.

So it was a humorous comment on the previous post which said "Tuesday".

--
/-- Joona Palaste (palaste@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"Hasta la Vista, Abie!"
- Bart Simpson

Mark McIntyre

2004-03-27, 11:51 pm

On 27 Mar 2004 17:51:54 GMT, in comp.lang.c , Joona I Palaste
<palaste@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote:

(snip classic failure-to-spot-humour-when-struck-over-head-with-it)

>So it was a humorous comment on the previous post which said "Tuesday".

Cap'n, I believe Jacob's irony detector has burned out a phase coupling on
its antimatter convertor. And I'm a scottish engineer, so I could find my
way around in here blindfo...

--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchamb...ome_to_clc.html>

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Mike Wahler

2004-03-27, 11:51 pm

"Mark McIntyre" <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:civb609stuqsmq7vtif9kn8gbigc4jkhgd@
4ax.com...
> On 27 Mar 2004 17:51:54 GMT, in comp.lang.c , Joona I Palaste
> <palaste@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote:
>
> (snip classic failure-to-spot-humour-when-struck-over-head-with-it)
>
>
> Cap'n, I believe Jacob's irony detector has burned out a phase coupling on
> its antimatter convertor. And I'm a scottish engineer, so I could find my
> way around in here blindfo...

"Very funny, Scotty, now beam down my clothes."

-Mike

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