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| Author |
Test of Unicode APL characters with Mozilla
|
|
|
| (+/X)÷⍴X.
X÷+/X
'LE CHAT'[2 3⍴7 5 2 4 6 7]
1++/÷!⍳30
⎕←A←2 2⍴⍳4
⎕←A←1 2∘.×3 4 5 6 7
(,A)[⍋,A]
enclose (⊂), execute (⍎)
CAPITALE['FRANCE' 'ESPAGNE' 'ITALIE']←'PARIS' 'MADRID' 'ROME'
Does it work for you ?
| |
|
| FDA wrote:
> (+/X)÷⍴X.
>
> X÷+/X
>
> 'LE CHAT'[2 3⍴7 5 2 4 6 7]
>
> 1++/÷!⍳30
>
> ⎕←A←2 2⍴⍳4
>
> ⎕←A←1 2∘.×3 4 5 6 7
>
> (,A)[⍋,A]
>
> enclose (⊂), execute (⍎)
>
> CAPITALE['FRANCE' 'ESPAGNE' 'ITALIE']←'PARIS' 'MADRID' 'ROME'
>
> Does it work for you ?
Well, it seems it does for me. I wonder what will happen in Google
Groups, however...
| |
|
| On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:32:07 +0100, FDA <armingaud@noos.fr> wrote:
>FDA wrote:
>
>
>Well, it seems it does for me. I wonder what will happen in Google
>Groups, however...
I assume you're referring to Mozilla Thunderbird. At any rate, I use
Forte Free Agent, and the (presumably) APL characters you sent were
displayed as question marks.
| |
| Bjrn Helgason 2005-11-22, 6:56 pm |
| If you want to pass APL code around there is a very clever possibility
available
Use Unicode and J
You get J for free and it is not very big so it is very easily portable
font=: '"Arial unicode MS" 12'
u: 16b0041 16b2190 16b0033 16b0020 16b0034 16b2374 16b0031 16b0020
16b0032 16b0020 16b0033 16b0020 16b0034
will show you the APL chars left arrow and rho like this:
a<-3 4 rho 1 2 3 4
| |
| Sam Sirlin 2005-11-22, 9:55 pm |
|
Wow! Works in emacs/gnus except for a few things, such as
X.
shows up has \342\264X
....
'LE CHAT'[2 37 5 2 4 6 7]
shows up as
'LE CHAT'[2 3\342\2647 5 2 4 6 7]
1++/÷!30
becomes
1++/÷!\342\26330
⎕←A←2 24
becomes
⎕←A←2 2\342\264\342\2634
Good attempt. Maybe I'm missing some fonts...
--
Sam Sirlin
Email: sam@kalessin.jpl.nasa.gov
| |
| Bob Cain 2005-11-22, 9:55 pm |
|
RAV wrote:
> I assume you're referring to Mozilla Thunderbird. At any rate, I use
> Forte Free Agent, and the (presumably) APL characters you sent were
> displayed as question marks.
If there is a way with Thunderbird I'd love to find out about it.
That's what I use and the symbols are coming out as question marks.
Bob
--
"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."
A. Einstein
| |
| tupid_noob 2005-11-23, 3:55 am |
| On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:31:13 +0100, FDA wrote:
> (+/X)÷⍴X.
>
> X÷+/X
>
> 'LE CHAT'[2 3⍴7 5 2 4 6 7]
>
> 1++/÷!⍳30
>
> ⎕←A←2 2⍴⍳4
>
> ⎕←A←1 2∘.×3 4 5 6 7
>
> (,A)[⍋,A]
>
> enclose (⊂), execute (⍎)
>
> CAPITALE['FRANCE' 'ESPAGNE' 'ITALIE']←'PARIS' 'MADRID' 'ROME'
>
> Does it work for you ?
YES! I am using pan (0.14.2.91) under mepis/debian unstable and your post
displays perfectly (fschk-ing amazing). However some months back I
installed aplus (A+) and some fonts to get firefox to display on-line docs
properly, it didn't by default. I never could get my keyboard to input
into Xemacs correctly. The font of the apl buffer changed and I could do:
+ / 1 2 3 4 5
with the expected result, but no apl chars. I gave up and now I am
playing with J again.
| |
|
|
FDA wrote:
> (+/X)=C3=B7=E2=8D=B4X.
>
> X=C3=B7+/X
>
> 'LE CHAT'[2 3=E2=8D=B47 5 2 4 6 7]
>
> 1++/=C3=B7!=E2=8D=B330
>
> =E2=8E=95=E2=86=90A=E2=86=902 2=E2=8D=B4=E2=8D=B34
>
> =E2=8E=95=E2=86=90A=E2=86=901 2=E2=88=98.=C3=973 4 5 6 7
>
> (,A)[=E2=8D=8B,A]
>
> enclose (=E2=8A=82), execute (=E2=8D=8E)
>
> CAPITALE['FRANCE' 'ESPAGNE' 'ITALIE']=E2=86=90'PARIS' 'MADRID' 'ROME'
>
> Does it work for you ?
Indeed it does; I'm very pleased. This reply is from google groups
and it looks here
like the symbols are all OK in this. I have Mozilla 5.0 using KDE
3=2E1-17 ;
Linux RH9/PlanetCCRMA. The char encoding is UTF-8.
Konqueror 3.1-18 tried; got some right, missed others.
I tried copying into this reply some lines from an apx screen; see
below.
Paste worked on some, missed some and ran everything together ignoring
return/linefeeds. missed: left-arrow (no char or space) , iota (one
quarter),
probably others; I haven't checked further.
Paste follows:
APLX for LinuxCopyright (C) 2001-2003 MicroAPL LtdWS Size =3D 20.0MB,
Version =3D 1.1.9 (Personal Edition)CLEAR WS =C2=BC101 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 +/=C2=BC1055 =C2=BD=C3=B7=C2=BC1010 A=C2=BC10 BA+.=
=C3=97A B385
BA=C2=B0.ASYNTAX ERROR BA=C2=B0.A ^ BA=C2=B0.=C3=97A =
B 1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 3 6 9 12 15 18 21
24 27 30 4 8 12 16 20 24 28 32 36 40 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 6
12 18 24 30 36 42 48 54 60 7 14 21 28 35 42 49 56 63 70 8 16 24 32 40
48 56 64 72 80 9 18 27 36 45 54 63 72 81 9010 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90
100
How might I enter apl symbols in this reply?
Hope this tread goes somewhere useful.
Happy Thanksgiving to all,
Marv
| |
| Mike Kent 2005-11-24, 3:55 am |
| Bob Cain wrote:
>
>
> RAV wrote:
>
>
>
> If there is a way with Thunderbird I'd love to find out about it. That's
> what I use and the symbols are coming out as question marks.
>
>
> Bob
Out-of-the box, Linux T-bird 1.0 (hmm, need to catch up) is displaying APL
just fine for me.
| |
| lophiomys@gmx.at 2005-11-24, 7:55 am |
| looks great on Firefox 1.0.7
| |
| Björn Helgason 2005-11-24, 7:55 am |
| The APL chars display - at least som eof them in Firefox 1.0.6 in
Windows
The rho, enclose, sort, execute and more display fine
It looks like Unicode is getting there !!
This same thing does not display in Internet Explorer 6.0
FDA wrote:
> (+/X)=C3=B7=E2=8D=B4X.
>
> X=C3=B7+/X
>
> 'LE CHAT'[2 3=E2=8D=B47 5 2 4 6 7]
>
> 1++/=C3=B7!=E2=8D=B330
>
> =E2=8E=95=E2=86=90A=E2=86=902 2=E2=8D=B4=E2=8D=B34
>
> =E2=8E=95=E2=86=90A=E2=86=901 2=E2=88=98.=C3=973 4 5 6 7
>
> (,A)[=E2=8D=8B,A]
>
> enclose (=E2=8A=82), execute (=E2=8D=8E)
>
> CAPITALE['FRANCE' 'ESPAGNE' 'ITALIE']=E2=86=90'PARIS' 'MADRID' 'ROME'
>=20
> Does it work for you ?
| |
| Musashi 2005-11-24, 6:55 pm |
| I've been going crazy trying to get APL characters to appear
in Emacs 20.3.1 on XP.
I'd love to have an aplse or apl2 dos mode
that would let me type in various APL ideas
and then send them to the interpreter
and then get results back.
It appears some folks at www.apl2.de
started working on a GNU APL2
(their sample screens showing emacs
calling their interpreter whet one's
appetite) but they do not respond
to emails and their appears to nothing
happening in this project since 1999.
Jim
"Sam Sirlin" <sam@kalessin.jpl.nasa.gov> wrote in message
news:6shda442q7.fsf@kalessin.jpl.nasa.gov...
>
> Wow! Works in emacs/gnus except for a few things, such as
>
> X.
>
> shows up has \342\264X
> ...
>
> 'LE CHAT'[2 37 5 2 4 6 7]
>
> shows up as
>
> 'LE CHAT'[2 3\342\2647 5 2 4 6 7]
>
> 1++/!30
> becomes
> 1++/!\342\26330
>
> ??A?2 24
> becomes
> ??A?2 2\342\264\342\2634
>
> Good attempt. Maybe I'm missing some fonts...
>
> --
> Sam Sirlin
> Email: sam@kalessin.jpl.nasa.gov
>
>
| |
| Musashi 2005-11-24, 6:55 pm |
| >"FDA" <armingaud@noos.fr> wrote in message
>news:43831da1$0$22200$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net...
> Does it work for you ?
Oui!
Tres bien.
Outlook Express 6.0 newsreader.
Jim Pannozzi
"FDA" <armingaud@noos.fr> wrote in message
news:43831da1$0$22200$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net...
> (+/X)?X.
>
> X+/X
>
> 'LE CHAT'[2 3?7 5 2 4 6 7]
>
> 1++/!?30
>
> ??A?2 2??4
>
> ??A?1 2?.3 4 5 6 7
>
> (,A)[?,A]
>
> enclose (?), execute (?)
>
> CAPITALE['FRANCE' 'ESPAGNE' 'ITALIE']?'PARIS' 'MADRID' 'ROME'
>
> Does it work for you ?
| |
| phil chastney 2005-11-24, 6:55 pm |
| this is most disappointing . . .
it worked perfectly on Outlook Express
but I'm trying to move off OE
it doesn't work at all on Xnews --
so it looks like I'll have to move off Xnews as well
which is double disappointing, because I use Yahoo mail, and Yahoo
appears
to be unable to handle UTF-8 at all (which pretty much puts them back in
the
Dark Ages, as far as I'm concerned)
and I've just spent 4 hours wrestling with a website which admitted it
wouldn't work with Mozilla -- only to find it didn't work properly
with
IE6 either
but ignore all that -- well done . . . /phil
"FDA" <armingaud@noos.fr> wrote in message
news:43831da1$0$22200$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net...
> (+/X)÷⍴X.
>
> X÷+/X
>
> 'LE CHAT'[2 3⍴7 5 2 4 6 7]
>
> 1++/÷!⍳30
>
> ⎕←A←2 2⍴⍳4
>
> ⎕←A←1 2∘.×3 4 5 6 7
>
> (,A)[⍋,A]
>
> enclose (⊂), execute (⍎)
>
> CAPITALE['FRANCE' 'ESPAGNE' 'ITALIE']←'PARIS' 'MADRID' 'ROME'
>
> Does it work for you ?
| |
| phil chastney 2005-11-24, 6:55 pm |
| "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:dm0o7n12qaq@enews4.newsguy.com...
>
>
> RAV wrote:
>
use[color=darkred]
>
> If there is a way with Thunderbird I'd love to find out about it.
> That's what I use and the symbols are coming out as question marks.
if this group is going to start using UTF-8 and Unicode, I need to
choose a decent newsreader -- and I too would like to switch to
Thunderbird, so . . .
is that "execute" symbol displaying as one character / mark, or two?
if it's one question mark, then the UTF-8 mechanism is probably reducing
the two 8-bit quantities to a single codepoint correctly, but is unable
to display it because it's not in your favourite font
if it displays as two marks, then the UTF-8 isn't being handled
correctly (and that may be because it can't, or because you've
set it up wrongly)
/phil
| |
|
|
| phil chastney 2005-11-24, 6:55 pm |
| "Marv" <smoak@mis.net> wrote in message
news:1132781021.702746.312850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
FDA wrote:
> <test string snipped>
> Does it work for you ?
Indeed it does; I'm very pleased. This reply is from google groups
and it looks here
like the symbols are all OK in this. I have Mozilla 5.0 using KDE
3.1-17 ;
Linux RH9/PlanetCCRMA. The char encoding is UTF-8.
Konqueror 3.1-18 tried; got some right, missed others.
I tried copying into this reply some lines from an apx screen; see
below.
Paste worked on some, missed some and ran everything together ignoring
return/linefeeds. missed: left-arrow (no char or space) , iota (one
quarter),
probably others; I haven't checked further.
Paste follows:
APLX for LinuxCopyright (C) 2001-2003 MicroAPL LtdWS Size = 20.0MB,
Version = 1.1.9 (Personal Edition)CLEAR WS ¼101 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 +/¼1055 ½÷¼1010 A¼10 BA+.×A B385
BA°.ASYNTAX ERROR BA°.A ^ BA°.×A B 1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 3 6 9 12 15 18 21
24 27 30 4 8 12 16 20 24 28 32 36 40 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 6
12 18 24 30 36 42 48 54 60 7 14 21 28 35 42 49 56 63 70 8 16 24 32 40
48 56 64 72 80 9 18 27 36 45 54 63 72 81 9010 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90
100
How might I enter apl symbols in this reply?
Hope this tread goes somewhere useful.
---------------------------------------------------------
Marv -- when you copy from APLX you're copying different binary values
from those used in the OP -- so, obviously, they're going to point to
different glyphs within your chosen font
the iota should be fixable if everybody switches to using U+03b9 (the
Gr iota) instead of using U+2373 (the APL iota) or some (more or less
arbitrary) point in the range 0800 to 00ff
more importantly -- since there's no suitable substitute for U+234e,
can you cut and paste the "execute" symbol?
all the best . . . /phil
| |
| phil chastney 2005-11-24, 6:55 pm |
| "Bjrn Helgason" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132861836.224394.155030@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Try
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.apl
>
> and mozilla
thanks -- worked a treat -- I'll check it out with
a few other non-binaries groups, and switch if it's all OK
what is retention like? . . . /phil
| |
| phil chastney 2005-11-24, 6:55 pm |
| "Björn Helgason" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132839775.627612.164590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
The APL chars display - at least som eof them in Firefox 1.0.6 in
Windows
The rho, enclose, sort, execute and more display fine
It looks like Unicode is getting there !!
This same thing does not display in Internet Explorer 6.0
-----------------------------------------------------
check your fonts -- so far as I can see Arial Unicode has all the APL
symbols required, including the once-controversial APL quad at U+2395,
so try that if you're finding gaps
/phil
| |
| Bob Cain 2005-11-25, 3:55 am |
|
phil chastney wrote:
> "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
> news:dm0o7n12qaq@enews4.newsguy.com...
> use
>
> if this group is going to start using UTF-8 and Unicode, I need to
> choose a decent newsreader -- and I too would like to switch to
> Thunderbird, so . . .
>
> is that "execute" symbol displaying as one character / mark, or two?
Which symbol in the given text would that be? Most seem to display
(using Win Thunderbird) as a single question mark but a couple are doubled.
Bob
--
"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."
A. Einstein
| |
| phil chastney 2005-11-25, 3:55 am |
|
"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:dm6hbe0112d@enews4.newsguy.com...
>
>
> phil chastney wrote:
were[color=darkred]
>
> Which symbol in the given text would that be? Most seem to display
> (using Win Thunderbird) as a single question mark but a couple are
doubled.
it's in parentheses, and follows the word "execute" in plaintext
/phil
| |
| Bob Cain 2005-11-25, 6:55 pm |
|
phil chastney wrote:
> "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
> doubled.
>
> it's in parentheses, and follows the word "execute" in plaintext
It's a single question mark enclosed in parens. Does that mean that it
will display APL if I get a font or something?
Thanks,
Bob
--
"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."
A. Einstein
| |
|
| Bob Cain wrote:
>
>
> It's a single question mark enclosed in parens. Does that mean that it
> will display APL if I get a font or something?
I am in trouble with that question.
On my Windows Mozilla, the display is perfect (though very slightly
different in shape of the "execute" I am accustomed to in APL2). But I
have APL2 installed too.
However, on my Linux OpenSuSE 10.0 (free) it displays perfectly too,
though I never installed APL2 there ! But I do not know whether SuSE
automatically installs the Windows partition fonts (Mandriva does) or
not. As far as I remember (I am in XP presently) those APL glyphs belong
to a givent subset of Unicode *Arial* (!). I cannot check that right now
because I am presently under XP.
FDA (Yes, still an IBMer)
| |
|
| Björn Helgason wrote:
> APL2
>
> !"#$%&'()*+,-./
> 0123456789:;<=>?
> @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO
> PQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_
> `abcdefghijklmno
> pqrstuvwxyz{|}~
> Çüéâä_åçêëèïîìÄÅ
> ⎕⍞⌹ôöòûù⊤ÖÜø£⊥₧⌶
> á_óúñѪº¿⌈¬½∪¡⍕⍎
> ░▒▓│┤⍟∆∇→╣║╗╝
⌊┐
> └┴┬├─┼↑↓╚╔╩╦_
╬≡
> ⍸⍷∵⌷⍂⌻⊢⊣⋄┘┌█▄
Ì▀
> ⍺ß⊂⊃⍝⍲⍴⍱⌽⊖○∨⍳
∊∩
> ⌿⍀≥≤_×÷⍙∘⍵⍫⍋⍒¯
*Beautiful* ! Now we can begin to communicate seriously an readably in APL !
| |
|
| Musashi wrote:
>
>
> Oui!
>
> Tres bien.
>
> Outlook Express 6.0 newsreader.
>
> Jim Pannozzi
Strange : Here, I get /your/ quotation with APL characters replaced by
question marks (except the divide function, that displays fine).
Obviously, some mysteries seem to remain yet...
> "FDA" <armingaud@noos.fr> wrote in message
> news:43831da1$0$22200$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net...
>
>
>
>
| |
|
| Björn Helgason wrote:
> APL2
>
> !"#$%&'()*+,-./
> 0123456789:;<=>?
> @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO
> PQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_
> `abcdefghijklmno
> pqrstuvwxyz{|}~
> Çüéâä_åçêëèïîìÄÅ
> ⎕⍞⌹ôöòûù⊤ÖÜø£⊥₧⌶
> á_óúñѪº¿⌈¬½∪¡⍕⍎
> ░▒▓│┤⍟∆∇→╣║╗╝
⌊┐
> └┴┬├─┼↑↓╚╔╩╦_
╬≡
> ⍸⍷∵⌷⍂⌻⊢⊣⋄┘┌█▄
Ì▀
> ⍺ß⊂⊃⍝⍲⍴⍱⌽⊖○∨⍳
∊∩
> ⌿⍀≥≤_×÷⍙∘⍵⍫⍋⍒¯
*Beautiful* ! Now we can begin to communicate seriously and readably in
APL !
By the way, is there some kind of "repository" somewhere where people
can exchange APL2 workspaces ? I know that read/write anonymous FTP
access is a very bad idea (because the server quickly becomes a WAREZ
server !!!), but I guess that testing having two anonymous FTP
directories (one "write-only" and one "read-only) and a kind a daemon
that transfers everything which is made only of Unicode and ASCII APL
characters (plus a maximal size of, say, 64 K bytes) could do the job.
The daemon can probably be written in APL2 itself, in which case using
⎕CR, ⎕FX and ⎕EA would ensure that only *real* APL2 programs are stored,
not some illegal stuff just coded in APL2 characters (not in 64K bytes,
at least ;-) ).
| |
|
| Phil, the paste of execute quoteiota10quote
follows
'=BC10'1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
so no it doesn't; execute give a blankspace and iota give onequarter.
You lost me with "binary values from those used in the OP -- so,
obiviously, ". What is OP? None of this stuff is obvious to me;
maybe I'm a slowhead, but I worked at the IBM Lexington site, knew
the folks that made the original apl type head and keyboards. And
I've never understood why this stuff should be so much of a problem.
And at my advanced age, I'm not sure I want to understand it. But
I've got ask, why can't a product like aplx use a font that has an apl
symbol set within it? Isn't it a matter of quadAV pointing to a
suitable glyph. Note I said "a suitable", not "the correct". Doesn't
UTF8 have a suitable set?
(In passing, aplx for linux doesn't follow the unix convention
marking and copying. In unix, a character sequence is copyed
when it is marked. Very different from mswindows. Took me a
while to get used to this, but now I expect it.)
Thanks for your reply; if I sound a bit grumpy it's not directed at
you. I just wish I could use email to communicate apl thoughts,
write apl scripts in my favorite editor Kate and run them from a
linux command line.
Thankful I discovered APL here long ago and have APLX now,
Marv
PS: I use google groups to keep up with and reply to this=20
newgroup.
| |
| Mike Kent 2005-11-27, 3:55 am |
| Marv wrote:
> hat is OP?
OP = Original Poster
> I've got ask, why can't a product like aplx use a font that has an apl
> symbol set within it? Isn't it a matter of quadAV pointing to a
> suitable glyph. Note I said "a suitable", not "the correct". Doesn't
> UTF8 have a suitable set?
>
UTF8 is a Unicode encoding. If there is a suitable Unicode set
(and there is) it can be encoded as UTF8 (or UTF7, or UTF16).
Displaying it requires an installed (Unicode) font with the right
glyphs installed at the right points and a Unicode-aware client.
I don't know any APL that has Unicode-aware session handling.
| |
| James J. Weinkam 2005-11-27, 3:55 am |
| Mike Kent wrote:
> Marv wrote:
>
>
>
> OP = Original Poster
>
>
> UTF8 is a Unicode encoding. If there is a suitable Unicode set
> (and there is) it can be encoded as UTF8 (or UTF7, or UTF16).
> Displaying it requires an installed (Unicode) font with the right
> glyphs installed at the right points and a Unicode-aware client.
> I don't know any APL that has Unicode-aware session handling.
Well, I don't know if you consider it unicode aware session handling or not, but
APL2 for OS/2 comes with external functions CTUTF and UTFTC, to translate to and
from UTF7 or UTF8, as well as a system function {quad}UCS.
Here is a quote from the Users' Guide:
The following character conversion tools are provided with APL2:
The system function {quad}UCS can be used to convert between APL2 character
arrays and numeric Unicode code points.
The external functions CTUTF and UTFTC can be used to convert between APL2
character arrays and the UTF-7 and UTF-8 transformation formats used to send
Unicode characters across networks.
The following sections provide more detail about APL2 support for double-byte
characters:
Accessing Files
DBCS Characters in Application Windows
So all you have to do is construct a character vector of what you want to post,
convert it to UTFx using CTUTF and paste the result into your outgoing message,
for which, of course, you have specified UTFx as the encoding to be used.
| |
|
| James J. Weinkam wrote:
> Here is a quote from the Users' Guide:
>
> The following character conversion tools are provided with APL2:
>
> The system function {quad}UCS can be used to convert between APL2
> character arrays and numeric Unicode code points.
>
> The external functions CTUTF and UTFTC can be used to convert between
> APL2 character arrays and the UTF-7 and UTF-8 transformation formats
> used to send Unicode characters across networks.
Good gracious ! What about mere copy-and-paste ? It is commonplace
nowadays to have simultaneous windows opened on different systems. It is
even more commonplace to copy and paste from one application to another
(including bidimensional arrays from spreadsheet to spreadsheet, from
spreadsheet to e-mail, e-mail to word processing, and so on). Isn't it a
pity to forbid in APL operations as simple (from a /user/ point of view,
I mean!) APL departs from this universal way to mode data and programs ?
| |
| Musashi 2005-11-28, 3:55 am |
| Mysterious.
In the original post the APL Characters were fine
and I could read them.
When I replied to the post, it copied the original
message and some of the APL characters changed
to question marks.
I wonder if my OE Format setting (Text or HTML)
has a role in this?
Jim
"Musashi" <musashi@okogyo.net> wrote in message
news:v%nhf.19038$xu.12465@fed1read01...
>
> Oui!
>
> Tres bien.
>
> Outlook Express 6.0 newsreader.
>
> Jim Pannozzi
>
>
>
> "FDA" <armingaud@noos.fr> wrote in message
> news:43831da1$0$22200$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net...
>
>
| |
| Bjrn Helgason 2005-11-28, 3:55 am |
| It depends what browser you are using and what kind of Unicode options
are set in your browser
Mozilla Firefox 1.0.6 has excelent support for Unicode
| |
| David Liebtag 2005-11-28, 7:55 am |
| APL2 supports copy and paste of Unicode APL characters. I believe Dyalog's
dialect does too. I don't know if APL2000's does.
David Liebtag
IBM APL Products and Services
| |
| Robert Bernecky 2005-11-28, 6:56 pm |
| On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 01:38:39 +0100, FDA wrote:
> James J. Weinkam wrote:
>
>
> Good gracious ! What about mere copy-and-paste ? It is commonplace
> nowadays to have simultaneous windows opened on different systems. It is
> even more commonplace to copy and paste from one application to another
> (including bidimensional arrays from spreadsheet to spreadsheet, from
> spreadsheet to e-mail, e-mail to word processing, and so on). Isn't it a
> pity to forbid in APL operations as simple (from a /user/ point of view,
> I mean!) APL departs from this universal way to mode data and programs ?
I concur, as it drives me bonkers to have an APL session manager that
does not have EXACTLY the same user interface as any other shell.
Cut and paste are only two of these. I've been beating on one APL vendor
to fix these things, with them agreeing that it should be done, but that's
the end of it.
Note that these have NOTHING to do with APL-the-language, but are session
manager traits.
There's a chicken-and-egg problem here.
Bob
| |
| Robert Bernecky 2005-11-28, 6:56 pm |
| I think it may also depend on the host OS:
I could see your APL quad-av matrix, but the other
stuff (execute, etc.) appeared as question marks
in pan.
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 01:31:17 -0800, Bjrn Helgason wrote:
> It depends what browser you are using and what kind of Unicode options
> are set in your browser
>
> Mozilla Firefox 1.0.6 has excelent support for Unicode
| |
| Björn Helgason 2005-11-28, 6:56 pm |
| You are probably right about the host OS
I am using Windows XP
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ap
Mozilla Firefox
There it works fine
I guess it only signals that this kind of communication will be
possible in the future and some of us have a bit of the future already
At Jsoftware.com they have done a great job with Unicode support in J
I am a firm believer that Unicode is finally coming in strong
I have been waiting for it so long to solve APL problems that waiting a
bit longer is no big issue for me personally
Unicode will not just open up support for APL of course
There are literally miljons of people who do need this support
There is a huge market opening up and it would be great if APL is a
part of that
2b~2b=E2=86=90?
Robert Bernecky wrote:[color=darkred]
> I think it may also depend on the host OS:
> I could see your APL quad-av matrix, but the other
> stuff (execute, etc.) appeared as question marks
> in pan.
>
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 01:31:17 -0800, Bj=C3=B6rn Helgason wrote:
>
| |
|
| "the same interface as any other shell"
Bob, I'm sorry I never met you in person. I seem to agree
with your ideas frequently and I admire your work work for
a long time.
APL started out as a notation for thought. The caracter set
is a key that. Any OS today must provide for complex
national caracter sets. Math sets, music sets, other
specialized sets. It shouldn't be "A big deal".
It seems to me that the APL makers got consumed by the
push for GUI's and spreadsheets and forgot about working
within the OS without gui.
I wonder why some "shade tree mechanic programer" hasn't
used the available character set and available opensource
libraries to cobble together an APL interpreter script; it might
be slow but some of us might be willing to put up with the lack
of speed to gain a simple no-frills APL that fit better with
other applications like email, text editors ....
I also wonder why the APL makers can't see that "one size"
does not fit all of us. I need the notation including the APL
character set. I'll take care of moving between APL and
other app's if the maker respects the OS conventions for
data transfer. I''ve been doing that since the early 70's.
Still grumpy Marv
| |
| phil chastney 2005-11-28, 6:56 pm |
| "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:dm7kok01h14@enews3.newsguy.com...
>
>
> phil chastney wrote:
>
two?[color=darkred]
>
> It's a single question mark enclosed in parens. Does that mean that
it
> will display APL if I get a font or something?
sorry about the delay, Bob -- been helping somebody move house
my guess is that, yes, something like Arial Unicode would display the
execute symbol correctly . . . /phil
| |
| phil chastney 2005-11-28, 6:56 pm |
| "FDA" <armingaud@noos.fr> wrote in message
news:4388050f$0$28538$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net...
> Bob Cain wrote:
>
display[color=darkred]
it[color=darkred]
>
> I am in trouble with that question.
>
> On my Windows Mozilla, the display is perfect (though very slightly
> different in shape of the "execute" I am accustomed to in APL2). But I
> have APL2 installed too.
>
> However, on my Linux OpenSuSE 10.0 (free) it displays perfectly too,
> though I never installed APL2 there ! But I do not know whether SuSE
> automatically installs the Windows partition fonts (Mandriva does) or
> not. As far as I remember (I am in XP presently) those APL glyphs
belong
> to a givent subset of Unicode *Arial* (!). I cannot check that right
now
> because I am presently under XP.
Unicode is a very large set
the characters representable using Arial Unicode are a subset of Unicode
the characters necessary to represent (all flavours of) APL are a subset
of those in the Arial Unicode font
you can check this on XP -- use Charmap, if you don't have a decent
font viwer -- the ranges principally of interest commence with U+2200
(mathematical operators) and U+2300 (miscellaneous technical)
if you don't like the look of a particular symbol, then switch to
another font, or edit the existing font (licence terms permitting)
regards . . . /phil
| |
| phil chastney 2005-11-28, 6:56 pm |
| "Robert Bernecky" <bernecky@acm.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.28.13.56.16.160925@acm.org...
> I think it may also depend on the host OS:
> I could see your APL quad-av matrix, but the other
> stuff (execute, etc.) appeared as question marks
> in pan.
I don't know if you count installed fonts as part of the OS, but, so
long as you're resolving UTF-8 sequences correctly (i.e, 16 characters
per line of qAV), then it should just be a matter of finding an adequate
font
best regards . . . /phil
| |
| Robert Bernecky 2005-11-28, 9:55 pm |
| On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:25:24 +0000, phil chastney wrote:
> "Robert Bernecky" <bernecky@acm.org> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.11.28.13.56.16.160925@acm.org...
>
> I don't know if you count installed fonts as part of the OS, but, so
> long as you're resolving UTF-8 sequences correctly (i.e, 16 characters
> per line of qAV), then it should just be a matter of finding an adequate
> font
>
> best regards . . . /phil
Hi, Phil,
What I would like is a situation where ANYBODY can see the APL
characters, without having to EXPLICITLY download a font for it.
Note that this not exactly the same as "... without having to
download a font...": if the font download "just happens", that's
fine by me.
I'm running Mozilla under SuSE 9.1, by the way.
Bob
| |
| microapl@microapl.demon.co.uk 2005-11-29, 7:55 am |
| Marv wrote:
>
> I tried copying into this reply some lines from an apx screen; see
> below.
> Paste worked on some, missed some and ran everything together ignoring
> return/linefeeds. missed: left-arrow (no char or space) , iota (one
> quarter),
> probably others; I haven't checked further.
Just to clarify, APLX from Version 2 onwards has 'Copy as Unicode' and
'Paste as Unicode' options in the Edit menu. These allow you to
exchange text very easily with any Unicode-aware application, such as a
text editor, e-mail client, word processor, or indeed another APL
interpreter You can also read and write Unicode text in native files,
and copy or paste to the clipboard under program control.
Under Version 1.1 which you are running, Unicode support was not
included. Therefore the text placed on the clipboard will be encoded
as 8-bit characters using the character mapping of the APLX 8-bit font,
and so APL-specific characters won't in general display correctly in
other fonts or on other systems.
Richard Nabavi
MicroAPL
| |
|
| Thanks; I sortof figured that. If I ever get back to doing some
consulting work, I'll
probably upgrade. Right now I'm working on music and audio using linux
in a small
studio for local musicians who play for the fun of it. And all my cash
is going for
audio hardware.
One of the needs I've satisfied with aplx is getting my collection of
apl workspaces
onto my linux machine. And all of the data from my prior projects.
Many thanks
for making this possible; deeply felt.
Marv
| |
| Sam Sirlin 2005-11-29, 6:56 pm |
|
Wow. Works perfectly in firefox 1.0.7, google groups, same computer.
--
Sam Sirlin
Email: sam@kalessin.jpl.nasa.gov
| |
| Ray Powell 2005-11-29, 6:56 pm |
| microapl@microapl.demon.co.uk wrote:
> Marv wrote:
>
>
>
> Just to clarify, APLX from Version 2 onwards has 'Copy as Unicode' and
> 'Paste as Unicode' options in the Edit menu. These allow you to
> exchange text very easily with any Unicode-aware application, such as a
> text editor, e-mail client, word processor, or indeed another APL
> interpreter You can also read and write Unicode text in native files,
> and copy or paste to the clipboard under program control.
>
> Under Version 1.1 which you are running, Unicode support was not
> included. Therefore the text placed on the clipboard will be encoded
> as 8-bit characters using the character mapping of the APLX 8-bit font,
> and so APL-specific characters won't in general display correctly in
> other fonts or on other systems.
>
> Richard Nabavi
> MicroAPL
>
r←FileInfo mask;t;b;s
t←⎕host "CMD /C dir ",mask
:If 1∊"File Not Found"⍷t ⋄ r←0 3⍴0 0 "" ⋄ :Return ⋄ :EndIf
t←((t[;40]_".")^t[;1]_" ")⌿t←⊃Cut cr,t
r←DateTime¨⊂[2]t[;⍳20]
b←⎕fi¨s←(⊂[2]t[;20+⍳18])~¨","
((∊~⎕vi¨s)/b)←¯1
r←r,[1.1]b
r←r,⊂[2]0 39↓t
Something like this? I copied from aplx 3.0.7 as unicode into Thunderbird 1.0
(Windows/xp/cdn-en)
Hope we can all read it!
--
email: ray dot powell at shaw dot ca
--
Ray Powell
Victoria, BC.
Canada
| |
|
| I didn't read real deep but it looks good to me.
Marv
| |
| David Liebtag 2005-11-29, 6:56 pm |
| Looks good to me. Here's a test using APL2 and Microsoft's Outlook Express:
2?[1]16 16??AV
!"#$%&'()*+,-./
0123456789:;<=>?
@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO
PQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_
`abcdefghijklmno
pqrstuvwxyz{|}~
???????
Ѫ????
????????????????
????????????????
??????????????
???????????????
???????????
David Liebtag
IBM APL Products and Services
| |
| Björn Helgason 2005-11-29, 6:56 pm |
| The APL chars look fine!
Ray Powell wrote:
> microapl@microapl.demon.co.uk wrote:
> r=E2=86=90FileInfo mask;t;b;s
> t=E2=86=90=E2=8E=95host "CMD /C dir ",mask
> :If 1=E2=88=8A"File Not Found"=E2=8D=B7t =E2=8B=84 r=E2=86=900 3=E2=8D=B4=
0 0 "" =E2=8B=84 :Return =E2=8B=84 :EndIf
> t=E2=86=90((t[;40]=E2=89=A0".")^t[;1]=E2=89=A0" ")=E2=8C=BFt=E2=86=90=E2=
=8A=83Cut cr,t
> r=E2=86=90DateTime=C2=A8=E2=8A=82[2]t[;=
E2=8D=B320]
> b=E2=86=90=E2=8E=95fi=C2=A8s=E2=86=90(=E
2=8A=82[2]t[;20+=E2=8D=B318])~=C2=
=A8","
> ((=E2=88=8A~=E2=8E=95vi=C2=A8s)/b)=E2=86=90=C2=AF1
> r=E2=86=90r,[1.1]b
> r=E2=86=90r,=E2=8A=82[2]0 39=E2=86=93t
>
> Something like this? I copied from aplx 3.0.7 as unicode into Thunderbird=
1.0
> (Windows/xp/cdn-en)
> Hope we can all read it!
>
>
> --
> email: ray dot powell at shaw dot ca
> --
> Ray Powell
> Victoria, BC.
> Canada
| |
| Robert Bernecky 2005-11-29, 6:56 pm |
| On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:26:25 +0000, Ray Powell wrote:
> microapl@microapl.demon.co.uk wrote:
Some of the execute postings appeared to me with proper APL characters;
others, particularly those that were followups, did not.
[color=darkred]
> rFileInfo mask;t;b;s
> Something like this? I copied from aplx 3.0.7 as unicode into Thunderbird 1.0
> (Windows/xp/cdn-en)
> Hope we can all read it!
Well, I'm getting  here.
I'm running Firefox and pan under SuSE 9.1 Linux.
I can read Ray Powell's and Bjorn's postings as APL symbols
(although I don't particularly like the glyph appearance),
but the one from Dave Liebtag didn't have any APL evident to me at all.
I'm so glad we've solved The APL Character Set Problem.
If anyone can offer me a direct and simple way to get Unicode APL
displaying on any new version of Firefox (I don't care about IE;
neither should you.), WITHOUT the user having to knowingly
download an APL font, please show me how to do it.
I want to stick the APEX APL Reference Manual, should I actually
get around to writing it, on the web.
Thanks, Bob
ps: I just tried to send this, and got this from pine:
"ERROR: line 26, column 4 uses a character not specified in charset
"ISO-8859-1" -- possibly change your charset in "More Headers" to "euc-jp"
instead?"
Of course, it won't post it until I delete Ray's APL code. ARGHHHH!
| |
| David Liebtag 2005-11-29, 6:56 pm |
| Yeah, they don't look correct for me either. I must have done something
wrong in composing the post. I know I've done it before, but I can't
remember the Outlook configuration incantation.
I'm swamped right now, but I'll try to find time to look into it again
tomorrow (using a private news group for my experiments.) Once I get it
working, I'll post a sample along with instructions about how to do it.
Thanks for your patience.
David Liebtag
IBM APL Products and Services
| |
|
|
| phil chastney 2005-11-30, 3:55 am |
| NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.78.72.40
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 1133342718 14631 81.78.72.40 (30 Nov 2005 09:25:18 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Nov 2005 09:25:18 GMT
X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com comp.lang.apl:20051
"Robert Bernecky" <bernecky@acm.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.29.21.03.30.422452@acm.org...
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:26:25 +0000, Ray Powell wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> ps: I just tried to send this, and got this from pine:
> "ERROR: line 26, column 4 uses a character not specified in charset
> "ISO-8859-1" -- possibly change your charset in "More Headers" to
"euc-jp"
> instead?"
>
> Of course, it won't post it until I delete Ray's APL code. ARGHHHH!
Bob -- that error message is both right and wrong
according to your headers, you are set up to Send in ISO-8859:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:03:32 -0600
From: Robert Bernecky <bernecky@acm.org>
Organization: Snake Island Research Inc
Subject: Re: Test of Unicode APL characters with Mozilla
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:03:31 -0500
User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2 (This is not a psychotic episode. It's a
cleansing moment of clarity.)
Message-Id: <pan.2005.11.29.21.03.30.422452@acm.org>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
References: <snipped>
Reply-To: bernecky@acm.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 58
the recommendation that you switch to euc-jp is perfectly barmy
there is, as we all know, only one good way to map extended character
sets onto 8 bits, and that is to switch to UTF-8 (personally, I have
everything switched to UTF-8, where possible) -- if pine can handle
UTF-8 on the incoming, surely it could do the deed on the outgoing
also?
(having said that, I have reservations about using UTF-8 internally --
I have recently been reading suggestions that the Unix file system
should move to UTF-8 for filenames, &c -- a bit of a mess for Eastern
Asia, I would have thought)
as ever, my best regards . . . /phil
| |
| phil chastney 2005-11-30, 7:55 am |
| "Robert Bernecky" <bernecky@acm.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.29.01.03.08.481804@acm.org...
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:25:24 +0000, phil chastney wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Phil,
>
> What I would like is a situation where ANYBODY can see the APL
> characters, without having to EXPLICITLY download a font for it.
> Note that this not exactly the same as "... without having to
> download a font...": if the font download "just happens", that's
> fine by me.
I understand your requirement, Bob, but I can't see it happening soon
the facility already available to embed fonts could be extended to
update installed fonts, in part or in whole, but this would require
either fonts embedded with every message (a major increase in traffic)
or some sort of request/reply protocol, to supply missing glyphs
there is a lot of opposition to the idea of installing anything
(including fonts) without the user's knowledge or consent -- and this
opposition will have been heightened by Sony's inept handling of DRM
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/20...gerous-decloaki
ng.html (this URL will need unwrapping)
any cloaking device can and will be used for nefarious purposes
a safer method is to assume universal installation of an adequate
font -- Arial Unicode provides a start (although I don't understand
M$'s coy reluctance to distribute it more widely) -- the STIX fonts
( http://www.stixfonts.org/ ) are another possibility -- I guess
I need to check their character table, and maybe file a request
all the best . . . /phil
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