Java Help - java application update software

Author

java application update software

patrick

2006-07-21, 7:02 pm

I need installer software and update software for my java client
application.

So I can use InstallAnywhere or install4j to make the installer.

But what do people advise for automatic updates over the web.?

Is there an inexpensive cross platform solution that is simple and works for
non business type updates over the web.?? Excluding JWS.

TIA
patrick

Eric Sosman

2006-07-22, 7:01 pm

patrick wrote On 07/21/06 16:36,:
> I need installer software and update software for my java client
> application.
>
> So I can use InstallAnywhere or install4j to make the installer.
>
> But what do people advise for automatic updates over the web.?
>
> Is there an inexpensive cross platform solution that is simple and works for
> non business type updates over the web.??

You are describing "Java Web Start." Problem solved!

> Excluding JWS.

Oh, ratzafratz.

(Perhaps if you'd explain your reasons for ruling out
JWS, people might be able to understand your requirements
better and offer some better suggestions. As it is, your
dismissal of JWS seems entirely capricious; we have no way
of knowing whether an alternative would encounter the same
objections you have to JWS, whatever they are.)

--
Eric.Sosman@sun.com

patrick

2006-07-22, 7:01 pm

I want an idiot proof installer that isnt going to fail after
say 6 months on a clients PC and require a developer to figure out why.

People are used to conventional installers and finding the application in
Program Files.

Ive used it. It is way too complex to implement also.
Too many ways the link can stop working.

JWS is scary.

patrick

"Eric Sosman" <Eric.Sosman@sun.com> wrote in message
news:1153592612.435400@news1nwk...
>
>
> patrick wrote On 07/21/06 16:36,:
>
> You are describing "Java Web Start." Problem solved!
>
>
> Oh, ratzafratz.
>
> (Perhaps if you'd explain your reasons for ruling out
> JWS, people might be able to understand your requirements
> better and offer some better suggestions. As it is, your
> dismissal of JWS seems entirely capricious; we have no way
> of knowing whether an alternative would encounter the same
> objections you have to JWS, whatever they are.)
>
> --
> Eric.Sosman@sun.com
>

Eric Sosman

2006-07-22, 7:01 pm

(For future reference, please don't top-post: Put your
response after what you're responding to -- or intermixed
with it, for a point-by-point response -- but don't just lump
it all together at the beginning. Sticking it all up front
has the advantage that a reader needn't skim through a lot
of other stuff before seeing your immortal prose, but has
the di

vantage that the reader has no idea at all what
you're writing about until he's scrolled up and down the
message half a dozen times trying to assemble the scattered
pieces. I've rearranged your message to suit the preferred
style.)

patrick wrote On 07/22/06 15:30,:
>
> "Eric Sosman" <Eric.Sosman@sun.com> wrote in message
> news:1153592612.435400@news1nwk...
>
> I want an idiot proof installer that isnt going to fail after
> say 6 months on a clients PC and require a developer to figure out why.

"Idiot-proof" is beyond the reach of current technology,
not only in computers but everything else. The idiots are too
smart for us ...

As for failing after six months, I've never heard of any
such problem that's specific to JWS. Sure, the Web server that
serves up the app can vanish -- but that could happen to any
other network service your updater wanted to contact, too. And
if JWS can't for some reason find the server, it'll just keep
running the already-installed version. That's not as good as
getting the updated version, but if the machine with the new
version just isn't on the air any more I don't see how any
other scheme could do better.

> People are used to conventional installers and finding the application in
> Program Files.

People were used to doing arithmetic in Roman numerals,
too. Habits are hard to change, but not entirely inflexible.
Keep in mind, too, that people may be *used* to conventional
installers, but that doesn't prove they're *happy* with 'em.
People are "used" to CTL-ALT-DEL, right?

> Ive used it. It is way too complex to implement also.

I've used it, and it seemed quite straightforward. The
two principal variations are to sign or not sign the apps;
that choice has consequences for how you do things like access
the local file system. Fortunately, Java's encapsulation lets
you segregate most details of this kind away from the main
body of the app; it just deals with Writers and InputStreams
and stuff, and needn't worry much about how they were obtained.

> Too many ways the link can stop working.

If the link stops working, how will *any* scheme obtain
its updates? (Obligatory reference: RFC 1149 "Standard for
the transmission of IP datagrams on avian carriers.")

> JWS is scary.

Be brave. Visit the Wizard in the Emerald City, and ask
him to give you some Courage. If you approach it with some
confidence and a little swagger in your stride, you'll find
that JWS isn't intimidating at all. Really.

Perhaps there's something else out there that you'd find
less fear-inducing (I don't know), but I don't see how any
other network-based updating product will do any better than
JWS in the face of a dead Internet. To put it another way,
the product's behavior when there's no connectivity should
probably not be your big decision criterion.

Good luck! And keep your courage up ...

--
Eric.Sosman@sun.com

John W. Kennedy

2006-07-22, 10:01 pm

patrick wrote:
> I want an idiot proof installer that isnt going to fail after
> say 6 months on a clients PC and require a developer to figure out why.
>
> People are used to conventional installers and finding the application in
> Program Files.

1) Use Caphyon's Advanced Installer for Java, but it costs a little.

2) Use JSmooth (available from SourceForge) to wrap your JAR in an EXE,
and then use Caphyon's Advanced Installer (basic), which is free.

--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"

patrick

2006-07-23, 7:01 pm

"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:2Wzwg.69$6e3.18@fe11.lga...
> patrick wrote:
>
> 1) Use Caphyon's Advanced Installer for Java, but it costs a little.
>
> 2) Use JSmooth (available from SourceForge) to wrap your JAR in an EXE,
> and then use Caphyon's Advanced Installer (basic), which is free.
>
> --
> John W. Kennedy
> "The blind rulers of Logres
> Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
> -- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"

Had a look at that. Looks pretty good.
But a bit Microsoft /Windows oriented.
But skimpy on java information/help.

Also looked at install4j. Made an installer that works very easily and
answers all the java specific problems that arise nicely I think. like
bundling/downloading JRE's etc.
So will probably go with that even though the updating
part could be better.

thanks
patrick

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