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| Author |
Applet window warning message
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| Javaman 2004-09-19, 3:58 pm |
| Hello,
Does anybody know how to hide the warning message which appears from
(unsigned and non-local) applet windows?
Thank you
--
No reply email
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| Paul Lutus 2004-09-19, 3:58 pm |
| Javaman wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Does anybody know how to hide the warning message which appears from
> (unsigned and non-local) applet windows?
Tell us what legitimate reason you have for wanting to disable this
essential, security-critical warning message.
--
Paul Lutus
http://www.arachnoid.com
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| Javaman 2004-09-19, 8:59 pm |
| Paul Lutus wrote:
>
> Tell us what legitimate reason you have for wanting to disable this
> essential, security-critical warning message.
I want to be able to pop-up part of a navigational applet over standard
HTML text. No serious website would display such an ugly message to it's
viewers, or present them a confusing 'do you trust this applet' message.
To be honest, I think the way Sun have dealt with this issue is a bit of
a cheap hack. Applets shouldn't be able to create windows that don't
look as though they are part of a web page, but they shouldn't be ugly
either.
Besides, the security isn't adequate and it can be done (effectively for
the majority of browsers). Anybody know how?
--
No email reply
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| Andrew Thompson 2004-09-19, 8:59 pm |
| On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 23:07:07 +0100, Javaman wrote:
> Paul Lutus wrote:
(Jm)
>
> I want to be able to pop-up part of a navigational applet over standard
> HTML text.
URL?
>..No serious website would display such an ugly message to it's
> viewers, or present them a confusing 'do you trust this applet' message.
Perhaps no serious web-site would rely on something
as inherently unreliable and problematic as attempting
to float an applet/Java window over standard HTML text.
> To be honest, I think the way Sun have dealt with this issue is a bit of
> a cheap hack. Applets shouldn't be able to create windows that don't
> look as though they are part of a web page, but they shouldn't be ugly
> either.
Define 'ugly'? Define 'beautiful'?
Personally. I do not find 'Warning: Java Applet Window'
to be ugly, merely informative. If the rest is ugly,
that's the programmer's fault.
> Besides, the security isn't adequate ..
I do not understand what that means.
>..and it can be done (effectively for
> the majority of browsers).
Pop-up a chromeless window using JS, fill the
applet 100%x100%, then deal with the pop-up
blockers.. ;-)
Or in other words, 'no'.
> Anybody know how?
...and you've just finished telling us it *can* be done! ;-)
--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
http://www.lensescapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
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| Javaman 2004-09-19, 8:59 pm |
| >>Besides, the security isn't adequate ..
> I do not understand what that means.
I meant that there are work arounds to the warning message.
>
> Pop-up a chromeless window using JS, fill the
> applet 100%x100%, then deal with the pop-up
> blockers.. ;-)
>
> Or in other words, 'no'.
My boss draws my attention to http://www.alienmenus.com/
Is she mistaken, or are you?
--
No email reply
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| Paul Lutus 2004-09-19, 8:59 pm |
| Javaman wrote:
>
> I meant that there are work arounds to the warning message.
In that case, you didn't post asking if there was a workaround. But, for
some reason, you did.
>
>
> My boss draws my attention to http://www.alienmenus.com/
> Is she mistaken, or are you?
It's you who are mistaken. Either there is a way to do this, in which case
you didn't bother to post (except you did), or there is no way to do this,
in which case your objections are without foundation (they are).
--
Paul Lutus
http://www.arachnoid.com
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| Andrew Thompson 2004-09-19, 8:59 pm |
| On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:20:42 +0100, Javaman wrote:
> My boss draws my attention to http://www.alienmenus.com/
> Is she mistaken, or are you?
Neither of the above. It is you who are  ,
on several important counts.
1) That applet has no 'alt' or 'alternate HTML'
specified, so it fails silently on browsers with
no Java, or Java disabled. A user in an internet
cafe or library could be sitting there wonderring
why there was no navigation. Hardly fits the
definition of working 'effectively for the
majority of browsers'.
Even if the alt gave access to a JS back-up, that JS
would need to be able to degrade to pure HTML for any
site that intends to do business, or is subject to
compliance with the web-accessibility guidelines.
2) The word 'Menu' on that page is a dead giveaway,
and not a word you had put in any of your posts on
the subject. If you cannot figure it out, maybe
your boss needs to hire someone that can.
( BTW, are the demo menus actually supposed to take
you somewhere? None of them did for me. You will
find that is the tricky bit*. ;-)
* <http://google.com/groups?th=6f396f06d236d9a8>
--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
http://www.lensescapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
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| Javaman 2004-09-20, 9:04 am |
| Javaman wrote:
> Does anybody know how to hide the warning message which appears from
> (unsigned and non-local) applet windows?
....
Paul Lutus wrote:
> It's you who are mistaken. Either there is a way to do this, in which case
> you didn't bother to post (except you did), or there is no way to do this,
> in which case your objections are without foundation (they are).
I see your point and I'll restate my current problem. I know that there
*is* a way to do it (at least for *my* browser,
ref:http://alienmenus.com/). However, I do not *know how* (as in the
program source) to do it. I was therefore asking if anybody knew how to
do it, in case they were able to help me.
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| Javaman 2004-09-20, 9:04 am |
| Andrew Thompson wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:20:42 +0100, Javaman wrote:
>
>
> 1) That applet has no 'alt' or 'alternate HTML'
> specified, so it fails silently on browsers with
> no Java, or Java disabled. A user in an internet
True. Just out of interest, what is the current approximate percentage
of hits from browsers with no or disabled Java?
> the subject. If you cannot figure it out, maybe
> your boss needs to hire someone that can.
Yes probably :). The problem seems non-trivial to me. As the windows on
that page load, there are little flashes in the corners of the screen
and I think that they are stopping the message from being drawn by
making the window half offscreen at the time.
> ( BTW, are the demo menus actually supposed to take
> you somewhere? None of them did for me. You will
> find that is the tricky bit*. ;-)
>
> * <http://google.com/groups?th=6f396f06d236d9a8>
Thanks - I wasn't aware of this problem.
Javaman
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| Andrew Thompson 2004-09-20, 9:04 am |
| On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:34:24 +0100, Javaman wrote:
> Andrew Thompson wrote:
>
> True. Just out of interest, what is the current approximate percentage
> of hits from browsers with no or disabled Java?
(shrugs) It depends on the time of day,
the season, the applet, the site, and
who you ask, among other things..
[ Lies, damn lies and statistics. ]
Too many. Please ensure any applet pages you
write are not amongst them. Come back here
when and if you need to write Applet HTML and
I'll try to guide you, but you can usually
make a pretty good job of it if you read Sun's
docs on the applet attributes.
> ..The problem seems non-trivial to me. As the windows on
> that page load, there are little flashes in the corners of the screen
> and I think that they are stopping the message from being drawn by
> making the window half offscreen at the time.
I cannot say I observed any such thing, and since they
cannot be using Java (no permissions) and were apparently
not using JS (I visited with JS disabled and the page
seems to 'work' just as much in Moz. as it does IE -
the menus are there, they do pop-up, but do not seem
to do anything.)
Speaking of JS, the applet tags mention MAYSCRIPT, which
marks an applet suitable for scripting using JS, and that
might mean another dependency. (Not good for a navigation system).
Another interesting note is that the applets are compatible
with the MSVM, so whereas a Swing based JApplet might add
a JMenuBar and customize the JMenu, an alternate approach
would need to be taken for the AWT based Applet, as there is
no MenuBar you can attach to an Applet.
Some questions for you. Are you wanting to make a menu?
You talk a lot about Windows, but you have not specified
the content yet.
Because, that is the first part of this thread I heard
that makes some sense. Not that I am especially fond
of pop-up/out menus in web-pages, but I can see the
validity of the use.
Have actually seen this particular menu change pages?
(I suspect they are not hooking it up to actual pages
for the very resons discussed in the thread I pointed
you to. The showDocument method would be the crux of
a Java applet based around page navigation..)
--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
http://www.lensescapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
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| Paul Lutus 2004-09-20, 4:03 pm |
| Javaman wrote:
> Javaman wrote:
>
> ...
> Paul Lutus wrote:
>
> I see your point and I'll restate my current problem. I know that there
> *is* a way to do it (at least for *my* browser,
> ref:http://alienmenus.com/).
If by "do it" you mean hide the "Warning: Applet window" message, no, you
cannot do this. Appearances to the contrary, the site you quote is not
using Java applets for their menus.
> However, I do not *know how* (as in the
> program source) to do it.
That is because there is no program that does this. Ergo, there is no source
file that shows how to do it.
> I was therefore asking if anybody knew how to
> do it, in case they were able to help me.
We did. We told you that it cannot be done. If it were possible, there would
be a headline on the front page of every technical journal in the country
warning about it, because if it were possible, a hacker could create a
free-floating dialog in a locally spawned frame, one that appeared to be a
local system dialog, to collect passwords, personal information, etc. from
unsuspecting visitors to his site.
--
Paul Lutus
http://www.arachnoid.com
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| Javaman 2004-09-21, 8:57 pm |
| Paul Lutus wrote:
>
>
> If by "do it" you mean hide the "Warning: Applet window" message, no, you
> cannot do this. Appearances to the contrary, the site you quote is not
> using Java applets for their menus.
That's funny, because I thought that if you execute Sun's 'appletviewer'
then the resulting window does usually contain a *Java Applet*. If you
can tell me how a menu system which 'is not a java applet' can appear in
appletviewer then please go ahead because I will probably find it quite
amusing. Try it:
appletviewer http://www.alienmenus.com
By the way, you can also Alt+Tab from that site and the menu popup will
stay on top of all your windows in true modal style.
> We did. We told you that it cannot be done. If it were possible, there would
> be a headline on the front page of every technical journal in the country
> warning about it, because if it were possible, a hacker could create a
> free-floating dialog in a locally spawned frame, one that appeared to be a
> local system dialog, to collect passwords, personal information, etc. from
> unsuspecting visitors to his site.
It looks to me like it is a bug which isn't largely recognised. Just
because there are no headlines about it doesn't mean it isn't possible.
It just means that few people have noticed it. Every bug starts
somewhere. A problem in waiting?
--
no email reply
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| Javaman 2004-09-21, 8:57 pm |
| Andrew Thompson wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:34:24 +0100, Javaman wrote:
>
> I cannot say I observed any such thing, and since they
> cannot be using Java (no permissions) and were apparently
As I mentioned in reply to Paul Lutus, execution of
appletviewer http://www.alienmenus.com
shows beyond a doubt that this is a java applet. I believe that they are
making use of a security bug in most VMs (or at least window
implementations). What do you think of this?
> Some questions for you. Are you wanting to make a menu?
> You talk a lot about Windows, but you have not specified
> the content yet.
I was trying to make a sort of popup image-map. I guess I could always
put an applet inside some floating DHTML.
> Have actually seen this particular menu change pages?
> (I suspect they are not hooking it up to actual pages
> for the very resons discussed in the thread I pointed
> you to. The showDocument method would be the crux of
> a Java applet based around page navigation..)
Quite possibly, but again, I wonder also how many end users are faced
with this showDocument problem?
Javaman
--
no email reply
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| Paul Lutus 2004-09-22, 3:59 am |
| Javaman wrote:
> Andrew Thompson wrote:
>
> As I mentioned in reply to Paul Lutus, execution of
>
> appletviewer http://www.alienmenus.com
>
> shows beyond a doubt that this is a java applet.
Surely this is where science is going.
--
Paul Lutus
http://www.arachnoid.com
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| Andrew Thompson 2004-09-22, 9:10 am |
| On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:05:35 +0100, Javaman wrote:
...
> ...I wonder also how many end users are faced
> with this showDocument problem?
(shrugs) Wonder all you like, but I would estimate 'enough
that I would not base a site nav. system on it'. And that
is not even considering the people who never loaded, or
specifically uninstalled or disabled[1] Java.
[1] Or had it disabled for them, by the system administrators
of the library, internet cafe, school etc..
--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
http://www.lensescapes.com/ Images that escape the mundane
| |
| Grant Wagner 2004-09-28, 4:13 pm |
| Javaman wrote:
> Javaman wrote:
>
> ...
> Paul Lutus wrote:
>
> I see your point and I'll restate my current problem. I know that there
> *is* a way to do it (at least for *my* browser,
> ref:http://alienmenus.com/). However, I do not *know how* (as in the
> program source) to do it. I was therefore asking if anybody knew how to
> do it, in case they were able to help me.
The people at alienmenus.com know how to do it. For learning purposes I copied
their jar from Sun's JAR cache, extracted the included .class files and used
jad.exe to decompile them. Now I have the source code to study to determine how
it was done.
If you want a lawsuit on your hands I suppose you could modify any copyright
notices and recompile the source code generated by jad. If you don't, I'd
suggest studying the technique used and replicate it in your own Applet.
By the way, while sorta nifty, their menus are not the be-all and end-all. I
loaded them on an 800 x 600 desktop (both FF 1.0PR and IE 6.0.2900) and any
horizontal menu that extended beyond 800 pixels spent it's time blinking in and
out of existance as long as I kept my mouse over the parent menu item.
--
Grant Wagner <gwagner@agricoreunited.com>
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