Java Help - Question on CVS...

Author

Question on CVS...

IchBin

2004-07-19, 4:01 pm

I really want to use CVS. I just can not understand the differences between
cvshome's window version of their CVS distribution and CVSNT. Which one
would be a better fit as standalone or using between Eclipse, Netbeans and
JDeveloper. Or just one of those IDE's.

I am still in the process of evaluating which IDE I want to use. I am
leaning towards Eclipse then possibility JDeveloper not so sure about
Netbeans. I'm in the process of looking at Netbeans 4.0. JDeveloper because
of the integration with it's other products of which a lot of corps. use for
their Oracle Database. Eclipse for it's pure functionality and plug-in
base. Anyway, I have not used CVS. I have used only other implementations
of scm's (pc and manframe).

Thanks in Advance
IchBin

Byron Miller

2004-07-20, 8:59 am

"IchBin" <weconsultants@pdt.net> wrote in message
news:c4WcnbsgNvsRnmHdUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>I really want to use CVS. I just can not understand the differences between
> cvshome's window version of their CVS distribution and CVSNT. Which one
> would be a better fit as standalone or using between Eclipse, Netbeans and
> JDeveloper. Or just one of those IDE's.

All of your choices of IDE's support CVS checkout/checkin processes. So
your best bet would be to search for cvs administration or find a cvs server
that is simple for you to manage. Eclipse by far has my favorite
implementation of the cvs client. i just can't get enough :)

Managing a cvs repository takes some learning curve - i would suggest one of
the O'reilly books or links from the cvs website for that kind of
assistance. (link below)

https://www.cvshome.org/docs/manual/

-byron

Shane Mingins

2004-07-20, 8:59 am

"Byron Miller" <blahism@comcastt.net> wrote in message
news:RvmdndhEC9aqA2HdRVn-gw@comcast.com...
> Eclipse by far has my favorite
> implementation of the cvs client. i just can't get enough :)
>

Try the most intelligent Java IDE around --
http://www.intellij.com/idea/ --- you'll want more ;-)

IchBin

2004-07-20, 8:59 am

Thanks Byron.. for your advice.

Since CVS comes from the UNIX world it is very TTY'ish, so to speak, in
it's approach. I have downloaded WinCVS and seems to have a friendly front
end. I just do not understand the differences between CVS and CVSNT. I have
worked extensively with PVCS and others. I have a logical construct of how
they work. It's just getting their own command nomenclature down if a GUI is
not to my liking. I just have to do some more research.

Again, thanks for you input.
Ichbin...

"Byron Miller" <blahism@comcastt.net> wrote in message
news:RvmdndhEC9aqA2HdRVn-gw@comcast.com...
> "IchBin" <weconsultants@pdt.net> wrote in message
> news:c4WcnbsgNvsRnmHdUSdV9g@ptd.net...
between[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
>
> All of your choices of IDE's support CVS checkout/checkin processes. So
> your best bet would be to search for cvs administration or find a cvs
server
> that is simple for you to manage. Eclipse by far has my favorite
> implementation of the cvs client. i just can't get enough :)
>
> Managing a cvs repository takes some learning curve - i would suggest one
of
> the O'reilly books or links from the cvs website for that kind of
> assistance. (link below)
>
> https://www.cvshome.org/docs/manual/
>
> -byron
>
>

IchBin

2004-07-20, 8:59 am

Shane, have you used either Eclipse or JDeveloper? I actually did go out to
the intelligentj web site, the other day, but did not finish reading all the
information. I did not just want to download it just to download it. I am
working, as I said before, with Eclipse, JDeverloper and Netbeans. My code
is about to hit the bricks and just about duplicated my development on each
IDE to get a feel for the differences. Also, I have used JDeveloper in the
past and still want to work with that because of the appeal of large corps.
who have a tendency to stay with one product line and all their siblings.
Just for future work. I am on the bench right now. Each has an interface to
CVS . In fact CVS comes internally with Netbeans. But I am getting away from
my original question about the difference between CVS and CVSNT?

"Shane Mingins" <shanemingins@yahoo.com.clothes> wrote in message
news:40fca1ee$1@news.iconz.co.nz...
> "Byron Miller" <blahism@comcastt.net> wrote in message
> news:RvmdndhEC9aqA2HdRVn-gw@comcast.com...
>
> Try the most intelligent Java IDE around --
> http://www.intellij.com/idea/ --- you'll want more ;-)
>
> .

IchBin

2004-07-20, 8:59 am

Roedy Green

2004-07-20, 8:59 am

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 00:51:37 -0400, "IchBin" <weconsultants@pdt.net>
wrote or quoted :

>Since CVS comes from the UNIX world it is very TTY'ish, so to speak, in
>it's approach. I have downloaded WinCVS and seems to have a friendly front
>end. I just do not understand the differences between CVS and CVSNT. I have
>worked extensively with PVCS and others. I have a logical construct of how
>they work. It's just getting their own command nomenclature down if a GUI is
>not to my liking. I just have to do some more research.

you might find the overviews at http://mindprod.com/jgloss/cvs.html
and http://mindprod.com/jgloss/wincvs.html
helpful.

--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.

IchBin

2004-07-20, 4:01 pm

Roedy Green <look-on@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote in
news:7ubpf05k90fhn6va53eioffo7k1uo4ja8v@
4ax.com:

> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/cvs.html

Thanks Roedy... You are a wealth of information!

Shane Mingins

2004-07-20, 8:58 pm

"IchBin" <weconsultants@pdt.net> wrote in message
news:yYWdnTkp94xINGHdUSdV9g@ptd.net...
> Shane, have you used either Eclipse or JDeveloper?

Not the new version for Eclipse.

My reply to Byron was a little tounge-in-ch

, I am now of the opinion that
there is probably little difference between Idea and Eclipse and it probably
comes down to preference. A colleague using the new version thinks they
copied some of Idea ... I guess that means that there is a lot that is
similar. It used to be that Eclipse was good but Idea was better .... that
has possibly changed.

I would probably not be basing my IDE selection solely on CVS integration.
To me, other things are more important

I have never used JDeveloper.

I use CVSNT and Idea (v 4.03) has an integrated CVS client. The only
command I that I cannot execute via Idea (that I would like to) is to
checkout a tagged release so when I need to do that I fire up WinCVS.

I ended up using CVSNT as the Idea CVS client stopped supporting a localhost
repository and so someone recommend CVSNT. Apparently CVSNT was started as
a port of cvs pserver for NT.

There is a group comp.lang.java.softwaretools where u may find more CVS
info.

I have seen (cannot recall the name ... Roedy may have been the one who
recommended it?? ) an alternative to CVS recommended that is apparently
getting a good following. That may be worth looking for?

CVSNT has a Wiki: http://www.cvsnt.org/wiki/

A free book on CVS is here: http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/

Hope some of that helps.
Shane

--
"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, not the most
intelligent, but the one most responsive to change". - Charles Darwin

Dale King

2004-07-28, 9:08 pm

"IchBin" <weconsultants@pdt.net> wrote in message
news:c4WcnbsgNvsRnmHdUSdV9g@ptd.net...
> I really want to use CVS.

I strongly suggest that you consider looking at Subversion instead.
Subversion is the new open source version control system designed to replace
CVS and make up for the deficiencies in CVS. If you are already familiar
with CVS (which I gathered from your post that you were not) then it takes a
different way of thinking for Subversion as it is quite a bit different. If
not familiar with CVS, skip it and go for Subversion.

See http://subversion.tigris.org or read the book at
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/

> I just can not understand the differences between
> cvshome's window version of their CVS distribution and CVSNT. Which one
> would be a better fit as standalone or using between Eclipse, Netbeans and
> JDeveloper. Or just one of those IDE's.

There is a good subversion plugin for Eclipse called Subclipse
(http://subclipse.tigris.org) and I assume there are plug-ins for the others
as well. If you are on Windows there is also a nice subversion client that
integrates into the explorer called TortoiseSVN.

--
Dale King

Carl Smotricz

2004-07-29, 8:57 pm

Some clarification, hopefully not confusing:

"CVS" is a generic term for a source control system that's sometimes
implemented as a single standalone program and sometimes in
client/server architecture.

On Unix(ish) systems, there's a program called "cvs" that's locally
available. You call it up with "cvs commandname" and it shuffles files
around for you between your working directory and the repository (also a
directory, but maintained in a special format by CVS).

Unix systems also make this same program available over the network so
it can be called from clients running on workstations or other machines.
The same kind of shuffling, but the client (which I'll get to in a
moment) fiddles with the files in the user's directory while the cvs
running on the unix server fiddles with the files in the repository; and
of course the client and server exchange file data over the network.

As far as I know, there's no implementation of this all-capable,
directly callable cvs repository handler for Windows. Instead, the
implementation is split up between a server (CVSNT) that "does" the
repository work, and a client of your choice (WinCVS or a command-line
CVS client or whatever you like).

It's generally believed to be a bad idea for your repository to be on
the same box as you're developing on. As you know, a badly behaved
program can crash your PC and take the repository with it, multiplying
the damage. Many people also feel that Windows boxes are not stable
enough to be used as a server for something as important as source code.
So you'll see the makers of CVS try to nudge you against using CVSNT.
The more stable kind of setup is to have CVS running on a Unix (Linux?)
box. However, if you insist, you can run CVSNT on your PC and have it
work as a CVS server for you. If your PC never crashes, you'll be OK.

Once your repository is set up, you can access it with any client, even
a combination of clients. I like to use the CVS client built into
Eclipse (VERY smooth!), but when I work with Delphi there is no CVS
client built into my cheap developer edition, so I use a command line
cvs client to do my source control stuff.

Hope this helps. If you have detail questions, feel free to email me.
The reply-to address is intended to fool robots; my mail provider is gmail.

Best,

-Carl-

IchBin wrote:

> Thanks Byron.. for your advice.
>
> Since CVS comes from the UNIX world it is very TTY'ish, so to speak, in
> it's approach. I have downloaded WinCVS and seems to have a friendly front
> end. I just do not understand the differences between CVS and CVSNT. I have
> worked extensively with PVCS and others. I have a logical construct of how
> they work. It's just getting their own command nomenclature down if a GUI is
> not to my liking. I just have to do some more research.
>
> Again, thanks for you input.
> Ichbin...
>
> "Byron Miller" <blahism@comcastt.net> wrote in message
> news:RvmdndhEC9aqA2HdRVn-gw@comcast.com...
>
>
> between
>
>
> and
>
>
> server
>
>
> of
>
>
>
>

Roedy Green

2004-07-30, 3:58 am

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 02:24:24 +0200, Carl Smotricz
<carl.smotricz@t-online.de> wrote or quoted :

>So you'll see the makers of CVS try to nudge you against using CVSNT.

You may find a friend with a CVS server is quite happy to let you post
your private code there. It is an extra layer of backup. Even a fire
or theft of all your backups won't hurt you.

--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.

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