PerlTk - [ANNOUNCE] ZooZ-1.0RC2

Author

[ANNOUNCE] ZooZ-1.0RC2

Ala Qumsieh

2004-09-28, 9:27 pm

ZooZ is a Perl/Tk GUI builder written in pure Perl/Tk.

I just uploaded v1.0RC2 of ZooZ to my CPAN directory.
It should show up on your local mirror in a few hours:

http://search.cpan.org/~aqumsieh

Note that I changed the package name from ZooZvXXX to
ZooZ-XXX. The reason is that CPAN thought the package
is ZooZv instead of ZooZ. So, please disregard
ZooZv1.0-RC1 that is currently on CPAN. Also note that
this is still a beta version, so many things might
change.

This release is mostly bug fixes from all the feedback
I got after releasing RC1. As a result, this version
of ZooZ does NOT support project files saved from RC1.
I also included a little documentation, and a few
extra features.

Many thanks to everyone who sent me comments, and
please let me know if you find any more bugs.

--Ala

The uploaded file

ZooZ-1.0RC2.tar.gz

has entered CPAN as

file:
$CPAN/authors/id/A/AQ/AQUMSIEH/ZooZ-1.0RC2.tar.gz
size: 183113 bytes
md5: 1fb45166e218635d46ae3d3cf801f083

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Michael Carman

2004-09-29, 8:05 pm

Ala Qumsieh wrote:
>
> I just uploaded v1.0RC2 of ZooZ to my CPAN directory.

Some issues I've run across:

If I have a button with text '0', it goes back to a default like
'Button11' when opening a saved project. Presumably you're defaulting
the text using a test for truth instead of definedness.

There doesn't seem to be any way to name projects, and they don't use
the project file's name.

"Defined Fonts" aren't remembered after a reload.

Changing fonts is not intuitive.
* You have to register font before you can select it.
* "Return Selected" isn't a very good end-user name.
* "Return Selected" is a misleading name when the only selection
I've made is in the family list, and it doesn't return what I expect.
* The select/cancel buttons should be grouped with the "Defined Fonts"
list -- within the same LabFrame so it's clear(er) what they apply to.

The "Change Fonts" button uses the selected font for the widget. This
can be a bad thing if (e.g.) someone selects "Wingdings" as their font.
Very large, small, or hard to read fonts could be a problem as well. I
would prefer to see an entry with the font name/description and a button
on the right to change it (like most of the other options have).

If I try to close and then load a project, the project doesn't load and
I get some internals dumped to STDOUT:

wm (2):
0 0x3770af4 PVMG f=0008e007 {}(3)(1)
SV = PVMG(0x377c494) at 0x3770af4
REFCNT = 1
FLAGS = (GMG,SMG,RMG,ROK)
IV = 0
NV = 0
RV = 0x37747f4
PV = 0x37747f4 ""
CUR = 0
LEN = 0
MAGIC = 0x81bbb24
MG_VIRTUAL = 0x1b87e90
MG_TYPE = PERL_MAGIC_ext(~)
MG_FLAGS = 0x02
REFCOUNTED
MG_OBJ = 0x3780cb8
SV = PV(0x81b4a04) at 0x3780cb8
REFCNT = 1
FLAGS = ()
PV = 0x379ccfc ""\0
CUR = 0
LEN = 17
1 0x2bdfcb0 PV f=24040004 withdraw(1)
SV = PV(0x2bc3ce4) at 0x2bdfcb0
REFCNT = 1
FLAGS = (POK,pPOK,UTF8)
PV = 0x2bd7ac4 "withdraw"\0 [UTF8 "withdraw"]
CUR = 8
LEN = 9

I changed the font for a widget (using the dialog) to "Courier New 10
normal roman." I saved the project, closed ZooZ (because of the above
issue), relaunched and opened the project. When it reached the portion
of the .zooz file with the -font option, it stopped parsing. Any widgets
after that point were missing, and even the properties for the offending
widget were truncated in the dialog. The -font label was the last thing
to appear. The problem seems to be the space in the font name. Changing
"Courier New" to "Courier" or deleting that line from the file made it
parsable again.

How does the NoteBook work? It should be a container, but I can't tunnel
into it, add tabs, or anything else.

In the "Available Widgets" sidebar, it would make more sense to me to
see the "label" *above* the contents, rather than below.

You can't resize the tree sidebar, which is problem if you have more
than a couple levels of nested containers.

I *really* want to be able to drag & drop in the tree. When designing a
GUI, I often get some widgets in place and then decide that I need to
add a frame around them, move them to a different frame, etc. As ZooZ
stands now, I have to recreate them. The ability to move things from one
container to another is high on my "must have" features list. (Yes, I
realize that it's not necessarily easy.)

There should be a menu item for code generation (and the button icon
looks like sorting, not a code dump!)

Pressing the "Dump Perl Code" button doesn't seem to do anything. (I
haven't created any callbacks, but I still expected to see the Tk code
appear somewhere.)

Despite all this, I still think ZooZ looks very promising. I've been
wanting a good GUI-based design tool for a long time.

-mjc

Ala Qumsieh

2004-09-29, 8:05 pm

Michael Carman wrote:

> If I have a button with text '0', it goes back to a default like
> 'Button11' when opening a saved project. Presumably you're defaulting
> the text using a test for truth instead of definedness.

I tested for this explicitly. This line from Project.pm:

next unless defined $v && $v =~ /./; # match 0

I even have the comment there :)
I see that the dumped project file contains the 0, but the loaded one
doesn't. Anyway, I was able to reproduce your problem. I'll fix.

> There doesn't seem to be any way to name projects, and they don't use
> the project file's name.

Correct. That's a big issue, I know. And I will fix it soon. Same thing
for widgets.

> "Defined Fonts" aren't remembered after a reload.

I was kinda hoping no one would notice :) Will fix.

> Changing fonts is not intuitive.
> * You have to register font before you can select it.
> * "Return Selected" isn't a very good end-user name.
> * "Return Selected" is a misleading name when the only selection
> I've made is in the family list, and it doesn't return what I expect.
> * The select/cancel buttons should be grouped with the "Defined Fonts"
> list -- within the same LabFrame so it's clear(er) what they apply to.

I had my doubts with this interface. But, this is the first time I got
feedback from anyone regarding it, so I'll try to come with something
better. I guess I don't need to explicitly register fonts. When the user
returns a font, it should get automatically registered. The reason I
want registration in the first place is to make it easy for users to
re-use the same font in different parts of the GUI.

> The "Change Fonts" button uses the selected font for the widget. This
> can be a bad thing if (e.g.) someone selects "Wingdings" as their font.
> Very large, small, or hard to read fonts could be a problem as well. I
> would prefer to see an entry with the font name/description and a button
> on the right to change it (like most of the other options have).

Point taken.

> If I try to close and then load a project, the project doesn't load and
> I get some internals dumped to STDOUT:

Does this happen consistently for *any* project file you load? What
platform are you on? Can you send me a project file that shows this please?

> I changed the font for a widget (using the dialog) to "Courier New 10
> normal roman." I saved the project, closed ZooZ (because of the above
> issue), relaunched and opened the project. When it reached the portion
> of the .zooz file with the -font option, it stopped parsing. Any widgets
> after that point were missing, and even the properties for the offending
> widget were truncated in the dialog. The -font label was the last thing
> to appear. The problem seems to be the space in the font name. Changing
> "Courier New" to "Courier" or deleting that line from the file made it
> parsable again.

I guess I'll need to redo Font support in general. I'll test with
different fonts and see.

> How does the NoteBook work? It should be a container, but I can't tunnel
> into it, add tabs, or anything else.

Right now you can't. That's in my (rather long) TODO list, along with
support for bindings and menus.

> In the "Available Widgets" sidebar, it would make more sense to me to
> see the "label" *above* the contents, rather than below.

I would beg to differ here. I think it's more natural to have labels below.

> You can't resize the tree sidebar, which is problem if you have more
> than a couple levels of nested containers.

An Adjuster ought to fix that.

> I *really* want to be able to drag & drop in the tree. When designing a
> GUI, I often get some widgets in place and then decide that I need to
> add a frame around them, move them to a different frame, etc. As ZooZ
> stands now, I have to recreate them. The ability to move things from one
> container to another is high on my "must have" features list. (Yes, I
> realize that it's not necessarily easy.)

A copy/paste implementation can help here. And yes .. it's on my TODO
list. And yes .. it won't be easy. I'm with you that it's a very useful
feature, but implementing it has been scaring me since day one! So I put
it on my TODO list instead :)

> There should be a menu item for code generation (and the button icon
> looks like sorting, not a code dump!)

I added that menu item just after uploading to CPAN. As for the icon ..
I spent so much time creating the widget icons and fixing the code that
I just wanted anything that resembled code to use as the code generation
icon. It is ugly, and yes, it is a sort icon. I will fix this one day
when I figure out how to properly use Gimp to slap a translucent shebang
on a shrunken camel. If you, or anyone else, have the time/energy/talent
and would like to donate any icons, then I'll gladly accept them.

> Pressing the "Dump Perl Code" button doesn't seem to do anything. (I
> haven't created any callbacks, but I still expected to see the Tk code
> appear somewhere.)

I got this report from someone else, but can't reproduce it here. I can
dump code on Linux and Win32 without a problem. It should prompt your
for a file name via getSaveFile. Try creating a new project, and dump
code. Does that work?

Hmm .. after some more tinkering, I see this behaviour on Win32. It
happens after you save or load a project. I've been developing on Linux,
which doesn't exhibit the same behaviour. It seems to be related to
getSaveFile. I'll investigate further, but it seems to be a
Win32-related thing.

> Despite all this, I still think ZooZ looks very promising. I've been
> wanting a good GUI-based design tool for a long time.

Thanks. I really appreciate your comments. I will try to address all of
them in the next release. Hopefully, after one or two more iterations
we'll end up with a useful ZooZ!

PS. I also found a bug with closing projects, so don't do that for now :)

--Ala

Ala Qumsieh

2004-09-29, 8:05 pm

Michael Carman wrote:

> Pressing the "Dump Perl Code" button doesn't seem to do anything. (I
> haven't created any callbacks, but I still expected to see the Tk code
> appear somewhere.)

To temporarily fix this problem, you can comment out the -initalfile
option of the getSaveFile() method in sub dumpPerl() in ZooZ.pl.

I'm trying to figure out why it sometimes fails under Win32.

--Ala

Michael Carman

2004-09-29, 8:05 pm

Ala Qumsieh wrote:
> Michael Carman wrote:
> [Will add ability to (re)name widgets]

Cool. That will help when building callbacks.

>
> I had my doubts with this interface. But, this is the first time I
> got feedback from anyone regarding it, so I'll try to come with
> something better.

I made a mockup (in ZooZ!) that I'll email to you.

> I guess I don't need to explicitly register fonts. When the user
> returns a font, it should get automatically registered.

That would work. Alternately, you could allow the user to register fonts
for things they might want to reuse, but don't require them to do so in
order to set the font for a particular widget.

> The reason I want registration in the first place is to make it easy
> for users to re-use the same font in different parts of the GUI.

That's what I figured (which is why the lack of persistence after a
reload surprisd me).

>
> Does this happen consistently for *any* project file you load?

Yep.

> What platform are you on?

Win32

> Can you send me a project file that shows this please?

[ZooZ v1.0RC2]

[Widget Label1]
Parent MainWindow
Type Label
Row 0
Col 0
Rowspan 1
Colspan 1
WCONF -text I'm a Label!
ECONF HOPTIONAL 0
ECONF HSCROLLLOC
ECONF SCROLLON 0
ECONF VOPTIONAL 0
ECONF VSCROLLLOC
[End Widget]

> PS. I also found a bug with closing projects, so don't do that for
> now :)

Okay, presumably this is the cause.

>
> Right now you can't. That's in my (rather long) TODO list, along with
> support for bindings and menus.

Maybe I should read it before complaining. :)

>
> I would beg to differ here. I think it's more natural to have labels
> below.

Well, that's why I said "to me."

>
> I will fix this one day when I figure out how to properly use Gimp to
> slap a translucent shebang on a shrunken camel. If you, or anyone
> else, have the time/energy/talent and would like to donate any icons,
> then I'll gladly accept them.

Heh, I'm no more than a struggling hack at icon generation. ;)

>
> It should prompt your for a file name via getSaveFile.

Nope.

> Try creating a new project, and dump code. Does that work?

Okay, with a *new* (not saved, not loaded) project, code generation
works. (Though I do get a "use lib" for your personal environment.)

> Hmm .. after some more tinkering, I see this behaviour on Win32. It
> happens after you save or load a project.

Yeah, that's what I'm seeing.

> I really appreciate your comments.

Good. I'm glad you aren't taking them as anything other than
constructive criticism.

On that note, two more items:

1) The -textvariable button in the configure dialog for an OptionMenu
has weird text that changes everytime I mouseover.

2) I created a project with three frames arranged thus

1 2 3

and later reordered them

3 1 2

which was slick, but when I save and reopen the project, they go back to
the original order. I had to hack the project file (change the "col"
value) to fix it.

-mjc

Michael Carman

2004-09-29, 8:05 pm

Michael Carman wrote:
>
> I made a mockup (in ZooZ!) that I'll email to you.

....if you'll send me your private email address.

-mjc

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