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web site development methodology
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| colonel.ender@gmail.com 2006-03-26, 3:59 am |
| I'm starting a new web site project to support a few thousand
concurrent users and am searching for a development methodology that
will help me work with another firm which will be doing the graphic
design on the site.
Can anyone point me to some suggested web development methodologies
(specifically geared towards web site development)?
I'm having trouble with things like ... when to hand the web views over
for graphic work, should the graphic designer figure out the layout of
the views even though the developers will be doing the initial work on
implementing the views, how to continue back-end work while the visuals
are being done (if they can be done in parallel), etc...
I'd also like to get ideas on how to draw up and present the site to
the client, what to present in the beginning, etc...
I'm not looking for anything w/ heavy upfront design work and as big as
RUP. I think it needs to be lightweight.
Any help much appreciated.
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| colonel.ender wrote:
> I'm starting a new web site project to support a few thousand
> concurrent users and am searching for a development methodology that
> will help me work with another firm which will be doing the graphic
> design on the site.
Get with /Extreme Programming for Web Projects/ by Wallace, Raggett, &
Aufgang.
> I'm having trouble with things like ... when to hand the web views over
> for graphic work, should the graphic designer figure out the layout of
> the views even though the developers will be doing the initial work on
> implementing the views, how to continue back-end work while the visuals
> are being done (if they can be done in parallel), etc...
The book doesn't cover remote graphics. It seems an onsite liaison might be
in order.
The book technically specifies that a web site should start as an XML site
map, and it should automatically generate its pages by transforming that XML
with XSLT. Then hang placeholder graphics and text in this framework. At all
times the site works, with no broken links.
> I'd also like to get ideas on how to draw up and present the site to
> the client, what to present in the beginning, etc...
It seems this framework might be the point of interaction. The remote team
should be able to edit the framework and put the graphics in, and should
continuously integrate and continuously test with the software team.
> I'm not looking for anything w/ heavy upfront design work and as big as
> RUP. I think it needs to be lightweight.
You are aware you posted this to the XP mailing list, right?
RUP and upfront things are light. They are not heavy in feedback and high
code quality!
--
Phlip
[url]http://www.greencheese.org/Z Land[/url] <-- NOT a blog!!!
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| Henk Verhoeven 2006-03-27, 6:59 pm |
| Hi,
I would't call it a methodology, but i found out by experience that you
better not try to let web designers do the following:
1. implementation: not even insert simple tags that will activate code
on the server that will insert data dynamicly or repeat sections of a
page or table
2. talk to the customer about what the application should do
The first you should not try because the web designer will ask you the
same (kind of) questions over and over until you decide it takes less of
your time if you do the implementation yourself.
The second you should not even think about because the web designer will
promise whatever the customer asks without having a clue about the
amount of time it will take, and not ask the customer all those
questions that you didn't even realize you ask until you find out that
without those answers you also have no clue about what the app should
really do and (therefore) how much time it will take to develop it, and
the customer has no clue about what the app should do either, so he will
change his mind all the time and allways ask for more. IOW, software
expectations management is really a software developers craft, don't
expect a web designer to do it for you, however good his communication
skills are.
With these two limitations in mind you will have no choice but to take
the lead in the first phases. As allways it is really helpfull to have
some sort of example or prototype to talk about. For a simple content
managed website this can be some example sites you show the customer to
explain what types of pages may be needed and to hear wheather the
customer will need them or not. Then make sure the web designer designs
only one of each type. You typically use an existing CMS you already
have some experience with. You can implement about 5 page-types at a
time, then do another cycle. The web designer will probably have a
prototype phase of his own. You can ask him about that. You'll see he
knows quite well what he will need to do once it is clear what needs to
be designed.
However, if the 'site' is more like a substantial web based application
with a nice graphical design (for example an auction site), you will
need much more of an application development aproach, and from an XP
point if view, a rapid prototyping tool will be very nice to reduce risk
ASAP (and why i developed phpPeanuts).
Be aware that different usage contexts may have very different lay-out
requirements. For example with a CMS driven website, the website is
targeted to the general public or the customers of your customer, so it
may need to look great, unique,  , have the style, smell etc.. The
CMS OTOH, where the content is maintained, is targeted to the own
employees of your customer, so it needs to be no-nonsense, simple to
use, comforting, and much like other applications they are used to.
Usually the backoffice side is technically much more complex and can
profit a lot of exising components and other forms of code reuse, while
the website is much more artistic but technically simple. The process of
web design may be quite predictible, but the outcome is not. You are
dealing with emotions and intuition here, you'll know little in advance
about the requirements for the software. But as long as it's simple you
don't need to know, you can just start somewhere and see where it leads
you. Very XP indeed. But you need to make these different 'contexts'
explicit ASAP, so you can apply different aproaches, divide roles
differently right from the start. XP can work for each context, but the
metaphors will be different, mixing those up can not be remedied by a
little more refactoring.
At the end of the line there is implementation. It will be software
development that will make the entire thing tick. So it will be you (or
your developers) to get it done, to present results to the customers, to
make more adjustments, get the customer to accept the product, to give a
training or do the first days of helpdesk. This doesn't mean the web
disign is not important, its the most appealing part of the product,
essetial for its success. But it does mean, if software is to be
developed, you need to manage it as sofware development, and fit in the
web desing, well, where it fits in.
Hope this helps.
Greetings,
Henk Verhoeven,
www.phpPeanuts.org,
www.metaclass.nl.
colonel.ender@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm starting a new web site project to support a few thousand
> concurrent users and am searching for a development methodology that
> will help me work with another firm which will be doing the graphic
> design on the site.
>
> Can anyone point me to some suggested web development methodologies
> (specifically geared towards web site development)?
>
> I'm having trouble with things like ... when to hand the web views over
> for graphic work, should the graphic designer figure out the layout of
> the views even though the developers will be doing the initial work on
> implementing the views, how to continue back-end work while the visuals
> are being done (if they can be done in parallel), etc...
>
> I'd also like to get ideas on how to draw up and present the site to
> the client, what to present in the beginning, etc...
>
> I'm not looking for anything w/ heavy upfront design work and as big as
> RUP. I think it needs to be lightweight.
>
> Any help much appreciated.
>
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| karthikbg 2006-04-05, 7:00 pm |
| Nice discussion. I too have the same thinking.... Maybe i need some
more info from where to start for this ?
Why cant one try with JSP / JAVA or ASP or anything else ?
Still more details are required.
Something even more.
Regards,
Karthik Balaguru
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| karthikbg wrote:
> Nice discussion. I too have the same thinking.... Maybe i need some
> more info from where to start for this ?
> Why cant one try with JSP / JAVA or ASP or anything else ?
> Still more details are required.
Write a technically juicy question to
TestFirstUserInterfaces@yahoogroups.com , and whoever has TDDed GUIs on your
platform will help.
--
Phlip
[url]http://www.greencheese.org/ZLand[/url] <-- NOT a blog!!!
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| Henk Verhoeven 2006-04-06, 7:00 pm |
| karthikbg wrote:
> Nice discussion. I too have the same thinking.... Maybe i need some
> more info from where to start for this ?
> Why cant one try with JSP / JAVA or ASP or anything else ?
If you have time/money enough to spend on building your own CMS or
framework.. Most of us will not be able to keep both customer and web
designer waiting that long. But the bottom line is: the software will
probably the most risky part of such a project. Prototypes can reduce
risk. So can reusing code, if the code is of a good enough (quality &
fit) for your purpose.
> Still more details are required.
> Something even more.
>
> Regards,
> Karthik Balaguru
>
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| slippymississippi@yahoo.com 2006-04-13, 4:03 am |
|
I'm a newbie, but I thought the whole point of agile methodologies was
to sucker the customer in as a member of the team. So you collect his
user stories (not "promise him everything without having a clue how
much time it will take"), and then pick just those stories that are 1)
highest priority and 2) just enough for you to finish in 1-3 ws.
Then you deliver that to him. If he likes it, he asks for more. If
not, then you've delivered what he asked for, and you, with a clear
conscience, dump the st0p1d b45t4rd for someone more deserving of your
talents.
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| Pick Django(Python) or Rails(Ruby) and use the page templating features
heavily to achieve parallel development. That'll be 25 bucks.
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