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| Paul Sinnett 2005-04-17, 8:56 pm |
| I dropped by wiki today for some reason I forgot. I thought I'd update
my details while I was there. But now it wants a code word. I spent the
next hour or so trying to find out what it was all about - apparently
it's something to do with bots - but I still don't know how to go about
getting a code word. Anybody know how to get in?
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| Steve Jorgensen 2005-04-17, 8:56 pm |
| On 17 Apr 2005 12:42:33 -0700, "Paul Sinnett" <paul_sinnett@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
>I dropped by wiki today for some reason I forgot. I thought I'd update
>my details while I was there. But now it wants a code word. I spent the
>next hour or so trying to find out what it was all about - apparently
>it's something to do with bots - but I still don't know how to go about
>getting a code word. Anybody know how to get in?
Most of the time, the code word has been displayed on the edit screen so you
can just read it and type it in. Try back later or in a day, and you'll
probably be able to make your changes.
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| Paul Sinnett 2005-04-18, 3:57 pm |
| > >I dropped by wiki today for some reason I forgot. I thought I'd
update
the[color=darkred]
apparently[color=darkred]
about[color=darkred]
>
> Most of the time, the code word has been displayed on the edit screen
so you
> can just read it and type it in. Try back later or in a day, and
you'll
> probably be able to make your changes.
The problem with that is I don't have any control over when ideas come
to me. If I can't rely on it to be open when an idea comes to me, I'll
have to find somewhere else. Maybe they could implement some kind of
login?
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| Ron Jeffries 2005-04-18, 8:57 pm |
| On 18 Apr 2005 11:03:31 -0700, "Paul Sinnett"
<paul_sinnett@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>The problem with that is I don't have any control over when ideas come
>to me. If I can't rely on it to be open when an idea comes to me, I'll
>have to find somewhere else. Maybe they could implement some kind of
>login?
3x5 cards? :)
--
Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
I'm giving the best advice I have. You get to decide if it's true for you.
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| Tom Plunket 2005-04-19, 3:58 am |
| I, too, just went there today to tweak a few bits of information, and
then I realized I should update my own information, but found the code
word crap.
It would be nice for someone who can edit pages to put a page on what
the code word is all about, even if they're not going to spill the
beans on what it is.
This change makes Wiki a bit less useful to me, mostly because now I
know I'll probably not be able to chime in on my own.
I find the following bit ironic, from http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhyClublet
> Open and shut case?
>
> 12-15-2004 Why appears to be open again, but I do
> not like log-in or the "Application To Edit" process.
> Have "applied" to edit, will see what happens.
>
> For some value of open. RichardDrakes view of a
> wiki is radically different to that of most of the rest of
> us. Effectively he is retaining GodKing rights.
>
> Indeed, this does seem to be the case.
Oh my how history repeats itself. A post on Ward's Wiki chastizing for
something that provides access when Ward's doesn't provide any access
at all (at least, none that I've been able to get in various hits over
the past 24 hours).
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| Tom Plunket wrote:
> Oh my how history repeats itself. A post on Ward's Wiki chastizing for
> something that provides access when Ward's doesn't provide any access
> at all (at least, none that I've been able to get in various hits over
> the past 24 hours).
Ward's Wiki had an incredible Spam infestation, as late as a couple months
ago. I suspect that perverted computers all over the world were aiming at
it. IP blocking no longer worked.
Before the code number thing, for each Wiki page you hit, you get a tonne of
spam. Sometimes it erased the existing content. You'd have the choice to
help clean the page (and figure out _how_ to, including correctly reporting
the spammer and correctly replacing the content), or you could just leave
the page and hope someone else had more free time. So anyone who hit the
Wiki would have to spend more time cleaning it than reading it.
Since putting the code word thing in place, the Wiki has been readable. Tom,
if you can think of a better system, Ward has let me know he's all ears.
--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/b...tUserInterfaces
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| Paul Sinnett 2005-04-19, 3:58 am |
| Phlip wrote:
> Since putting the code word thing in place, the Wiki has been
> readable. Tom, if you can think of a better system, Ward has let
> me know he's all ears.
No argument about the motivation. Some wikis are all spam and no
content now. but it does make http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhyWikiWorks ring
hollow now.
As for a solution, how about a white list for editors:
If you submit a change and you are not in a white list of editors, your
change goes into a queue.
If you are already in the white list of editors and you want to read a
page but there's a queue of unverified changes, you are first taken to
a page explaining the spam problem, and (as someone interested in
improving wiki) what you can do about it. And what you can do about it
is click (hot ot not style) on whether the oldest queued edit is human
or spambot. And then you carry on to your chosen page. Humans are added
to the white list, robots added to the blacklist.
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| Laurent Bossavit 2005-04-19, 8:56 am |
| Phlip,
> Since putting the code word thing in place, the Wiki has been readable. Tom,
> if you can think of a better system, Ward has let me know he's all ears.
My two spam-free Wikis don't require a code word or logging in. I'm not
sure anyone has noticed... All I had to do was prohibit what spammers
most want to contribute to a wiki, that legit contributors have little
interest in providing.
Laurent
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|
| Laurent Bossavit wrote:
> My two spam-free Wikis don't require a code word or logging in. I'm not
> sure anyone has noticed... All I had to do was prohibit what spammers
> most want to contribute to a wiki, that legit contributors have little
> interest in providing.
On your site, I can't edit pages that already have http: tags, even to take
them out.
And spammers often just leave out the http: tags and their customers still
pay them.
I think Ward's solution is a little more subtle than you realize. Or maybe
it's more subtle than I realize...
--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/b...tUserInterfaces
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| Ron Jeffries 2005-04-19, 3:57 pm |
| On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:41:31 GMT, "Phlip" <phlip_cpp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Laurent Bossavit wrote:
>
>
>On your site, I can't edit pages that already have http: tags, even to take
>them out.
>
>And spammers often just leave out the http: tags and their customers still
>pay them.
>
>I think Ward's solution is a little more subtle than you realize. Or maybe
>it's more subtle than I realize...
I haven't figured out what this is all about. Is the code not that
number listed on the edit page?
--
Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
I'm giving the best advice I have. You get to decide if it's true for you.
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| jeffgrigg@charter.net 2005-04-19, 3:57 pm |
| RE:
> It would be nice for someone who can edit pages to put a page on what
> the code word is all about, even if they're not going to spill the
> beans on what it is.
See:
http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiWikiSystemNotice
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| jeffgrigg@charter.net 2005-04-19, 3:57 pm |
| When you press the "Edit" link, you should get this on the second line:
Type the code word, ###, here [ ] then press [Save] to finish
editing.
Where "###" is some number. If you don't see a number there, then the
Wiki is currently closed for editing. I think it's currently only
"open for editing" when Ward (and maybe one or two other "Wiki
Stewards") is able to actively monitor it. I think we need a better
way to control access, to prevent or reverse spamming, but we haven't
found it yet. For one thing, I think we need a clearer explanation to
be shown when the Wiki is "closed for editing," along with some rough
indication of when it will be open again.
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| Robert C. Martin 2005-04-20, 3:58 am |
| On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:15:13 -0400, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@acm.org>
wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:41:31 GMT, "Phlip" <phlip_cpp@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>I haven't figured out what this is all about. Is the code not that
>number listed on the edit page?
Yeah, that's how it works for me. No problem.
-----
Robert C. Martin (Uncle Bob) | email: unclebob@objectmentor.com
Object Mentor Inc. | blog: www.butunclebob.com
The Agile Transition Experts | web: www.objectmentor.com
800-338-6716
"The aim of science is not to open the door to infinite wisdom,
but to set a limit to infinite error."
-- Bertolt Brecht, Life of Galileo
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| Robert C. Martin wrote:
> Yeah, that's how it works for me. No problem.
Works for me.
Today's installment:
[url]http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?Z Land[/url]
Archive:
[url]http://www.greencheese.org/ZLand[/url]
--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/b...tUserInterfaces
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| Tom Plunket 2005-04-20, 3:58 am |
| Phlip wrote:
> Ron Jeffries wrote:
>
>
> Do some people not see it?
>
> Tom, why can't you edit?
http://www.fancy.org/images/wiki.gif
(don't mind the 256-color GIF limitation, I can't seem to generate PNGs
on this computer.)
That's all I've ever seen. I would hope that if the site were truly
closed to edits, it'd say, "hey we're closed for edits" rather than the
"type in the codeword that we're not telling you about."
I've used Opera and IE, and in both I see the same text.
Maybe I'm IP-blocked. (Are any of the Wiki killers in Reno by chance?)
The page should say that then, again, rather than indicating that I
could edit, if only I were part of the super-sekrit handshake
word-of-the-day club.
Oh another tip, since I'm rolling. Why not give a link to this
WikiWikiSystemNotice from the edit page? I don't read the wiki every
day, and don't have the energy to even look at the RecentChanges, much
less know what all of them are.
Another curiosity- if the codeword is printed right there, isn't it
only a matter of time (hours?) until the spammers are parsing that and
filling in the field?
Also I agree- WhyWikiWorks should be edited somewhat to reflect the
current state. Maybe something like, "the people who Ward thinks are
 can edit whatever they want. He doesn't care about contributions
from anyone else, so read all you want but don't expect to contribute."
(It says as much on the WWSysNotice page.)
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| Paul Sinnett 2005-04-20, 8:56 am |
| > > Ron Jeffries wrote:
>
> http://www.fancy.org/images/wiki.gif
Thanks Tom, I was about to do the same.
This is what I see too. I take it that other people don't have this
problem.
Even more confusing - and I'm thinking more of the first time visitor
is the page that comes up if you try to edit - ie:
> The WikiWiki Server Can not Process Your Request
>
> Need to enter code word to save.
>
> This information has been logged.
> We are sorry for any inconvenience.
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| Tom Plunket wrote:
> http://www.fancy.org/images/wiki.gif
> Oh another tip, since I'm rolling. Why not give a link to this
> WikiWikiSystemNotice from the edit page? I don't read the wiki every
> day, and don't have the energy to even look at the RecentChanges, much
> less know what all of them are.
Done.
Ward never needed his Wiki to be more than a hobby, and nowadays running a
Wiki is a full-time job. Let him get organized.
> Also I agree- WhyWikiWorks should be edited somewhat to reflect the
> current state. Maybe something like, "the people who Ward thinks are
> can edit whatever they want. He doesn't care about contributions
> from anyone else, so read all you want but don't expect to contribute."
> (It says as much on the WWSysNotice page.)
Dude, don't be a Victim. (But just think of the poor innocent peace-lovin'
native citizens of Reno who can't post, either!)
--
Phlip
[url]http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZLand[/url]
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| Paul Sinnett 2005-04-20, 3:58 pm |
| Phlip wrote:
> Dude, don't be a Victim. (But just think of the poor innocent
peace-lovin'
> native citizens of Reno who can't post, either!)
And possibly Sweden too. At least my provider seems to be blocked. The
range is 80.216.0.0 - 80.217.255.255. If it could be white-listed that
would be .
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| Tom Plunket 2005-04-20, 3:58 pm |
|
>
> Done.
Thx... Although it (the edit page) looks the same to me still.
> Ward never needed his Wiki to be more than a hobby, and
> nowadays running a Wiki is a full-time job. Let him get
> organized.
But wait, it's on the intarweb and I'm an Amerikin and I'm entitled to
full unrestricted access to change whatever and whenever I want, no?
:)
>
> Dude, don't be a Victim. (But just think of the poor
> innocent peace-lovin' native citizens of Reno who can't
> post, either!)
That was more in response to Ward saying that same thing on the WWSN
page. I don't care if he /thinks/ that, it's another thing entirely to
actually /say/ it on a public forum that was started with "completely
open" ideals.
-tom!
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