Software Engineering - Resistance (was Technologies to teach in undergrad CS)

Author

Resistance (was Technologies to teach in undergrad CS)

David Alex Lamb

2006-02-21, 9:56 pm

In article <dt509p$996$1@knot.queensu.ca>,
David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
>In article <dt2a9j$lum$1@knot.queensu.ca>,
>David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
>
>Sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately the first course where we require
>actual research papers is in fall of 4th year; that might be a reasonable
>start, since pushing it down into earlier courses might involve some academic
>politics.

I received a private note regarding my responses in this thread, from someone
who seemed to think I was opposed to teaching 'how to write a research
paper'. I'm not -- I just tried to say there would be ingrained resistance.

However, what I may have implied but didn't make clear is that neither profs
nor students would have any interest in this topic except in a course that
actually did a research paper (or research-like paper, such as requirements
analysis). This my professional opinion based on years of experience of such
resistance on various topics.

So
-- in what kind of course, and how soon in the curriculum, would you try to
teach the how-to-write-a-paper topic?
-- do you agree it would have to be in a course that actuall required such a
paper?
-- if not, how would you overcome the resistance I mentioned above? or, do
you think I'm excessively pessimistic about the exitence of such resistance?
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)

Barb Knox

2006-02-22, 3:56 am

In article <dtgjsu$peh$1@knot.queensu.ca>,
dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb) wrote:

>In article <dt509p$996$1@knot.queensu.ca>,
>David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
>
>I received a private note regarding my responses in this thread, from someone
>who seemed to think I was opposed to teaching 'how to write a research
>paper'. I'm not -- I just tried to say there would be ingrained resistance.
>
>However, what I may have implied but didn't make clear is that neither profs
>nor students would have any interest in this topic except in a course that
>actually did a research paper (or research-like paper, such as requirements
>analysis). This my professional opinion based on years of experience of such
>resistance on various topics.
>
>So
>-- in what kind of course, and how soon in the curriculum, would you try to
> teach the how-to-write-a-paper topic?

Very soon, e.g. the first semester of a Software Engineering sequence.
Without decent requirements, you're toast -- "Any system whatsoever is
the full correct implementation of SOME specification". After learning
to READ specs, the next logical step is to CRITIQUE and IMPROVE (i.e.,
rewrite) them.

>-- do you agree it would have to be in a course that actually required such a
> paper?

Absolutely. Otherwise it will seem pointless to almost all students.

>-- if not, how would you overcome the resistance I mentioned above? or, do
> you think I'm excessively pessimistic about the exitence of such resistance?

"A pessimist is a well-informed optimist." I once tried to teach (and
assess) design in an introductory programming class BEFORE teaching any
coding. The result was abysmal.

--
---------------------------
| BBB b \ Barbara at LivingHistory stop co stop uk
| B B aa rrr b |
| BBB a a r bbb | Quidquid latine dictum sit,
| B B a a r b b | altum viditur.
| BBB aa a r bbb |
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David Lightstone

2006-02-22, 7:58 am

"Barb Knox" <see@sig.below> wrote in message
news:dth6h6$8l6$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> In article <dtgjsu$peh$1@knot.queensu.ca>,
> dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb) wrote:
>

I as an individual did not have a clue as to how to systematically write a
research paper until well after a had left universtiy. Its not that I didn't
write any while attending. Rather it was because I was readily able to hack
them out without great effort

The statement - nobody would be interested in learning something that they
do not realize they need to know is valid.

The statement - no faculty member would teach material they realize to be
significant, but about which they have no interest would (if expressed) be a
problem.

The statement - no faculty member realizes that teaching the material is
something in need of being done would be a problem

Interest or lack of interest in the subject material correlates very
strongly with an awareness of the significant of the material to a task the
students will need to accomplish in their intended future career. (ie if you
don't know you need to know something, lack of interest will definitely be
an expressed )

The issue of concern, expressed in your original post, was identify things
students were in need of learning.
(1) Do you now claim that the material does not need to be learned?
(2) Do you now claim that the material should be learned by attending a
course taught be another department?

The only problem is how you relate the material to something that the
students know they will need to do during the course of their professional
or academic career.
My guess a simple statement - you will have to do research papers
eventually - will be sufficient. The choice will be one of hacking them out,
or doing them systematically.

If that fails try - lets see if you know how to do them. How did you go
about writting you last research paper? Should not take long for you the
figure out if they know how to do it. Should take them even less time to
realize which of their fellow students know something that they don't know.
Is that not how study groups are formed?

Perhaps asking them to read a poorly written specification might be
sufficient. If you have any friends in the auto industry. I can tell you for
certain that they have more than a few poorly written requirement's
specifications available (proprietary knowledge may make it impossible to
get anything current, but stuff 10 year old may still exist). Perhaps
requests for proposals issues by you favorite Govenment will do. (preferable
something not written by attorneys). Irrespective of the source run it thru
a peer review exercise. Once people see the mistakes that can and have been
made by others they can be motivated not to make those mistakes

[color=darkred]
>
> Very soon, e.g. the first semester of a Software Engineering sequence.
> Without decent requirements, you're toast -- "Any system whatsoever is
> the full correct implementation of SOME specification". After learning
> to READ specs, the next logical step is to CRITIQUE and IMPROVE (i.e.,
> rewrite) them.
>
>
> Absolutely. Otherwise it will seem pointless to almost all students.
>
>
> "A pessimist is a well-informed optimist." I once tried to teach (and
> assess) design in an introductory programming class BEFORE teaching any
> coding. The result was abysmal.

See Donald Norman's book - The Design of Everyday Things. Its not software
design, but it does address many issues tht need to be correctly understoud

>
> --
> ---------------------------
> | BBB b \ Barbara at LivingHistory stop co stop uk
> | B B aa rrr b |
> | BBB a a r bbb | Quidquid latine dictum sit,
> | B B a a r b b | altum viditur.
> | BBB aa a r bbb |
> -----------------------------

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