Home > Archive > Software Engineering > February 2006 > Should I go for a masters degree in CS ?
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| Author |
Should I go for a masters degree in CS ?
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| surfunbear@yahoo.com 2006-02-08, 9:58 pm |
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I have a BS degree in computer science from a state college in 1990.
I really enjoy programming (compared to other jobs), and have been a
software engineer
at the same company for 9 1/2 years. I found out I may be laid off in a
month or so.
For about 8 of those years I have been working 4 day w s (32 hours).
They let me do that. I seem to have work related stress, headaches,
insomnia, hand problems and have never been able to work full time for
more than 2 years if that. I also am a musician and a surfer and I like
to have alot of time off. So I wll be either looking at unemployment
for awhile or getting a full time job, but the thought of going back to
school at perhaps UMass Lowell here in hte boston area at the age of 43
has some appeal to me. I felt emotional thinking about it today. I
really enjoy the academic life, at least it seems good looking back. I
often feel I have been treated with neglect during the latter years at
my company. Alot of engineers left, but I stayed on since they let me
work a short w. Alot of inexperienced people became programmers.
They did not want to learn real programming and treated me somewhat
contemptously saying my development efforts where too complex. There
was alot of office politics and managers passed me over, not giving me
much to work on at times. I have kept up my technical skill however by
creating my own projects and have learned alot of Java and advanced
Perl programming. I know that graduate programs are tough, but I have
done well on difficult classes in my undergrad years and I like having
more time off while going to school. It also seems like perhaps a
better social atmosphere. I figure I'd probably make some connections
for work through the college and I could perhaps find part time work as
companies would be more sympathetic to a grad student than a guy who
says he want to work part time so he can play the guitar more often and
go surfing and camping.
I am concerned with outsourcing and the economy and how that relates
to the future
of IT. I have saved some money, but I don't ever really want to fully
retire. I figure that
if I have a graduate degree and I'm in my 60's or early 70's, I'll have
a better chance
of avoiding age discrimination and qualify for better jobs, or so I'd
hope.
Will I possibly become over qualified ? Any thoughts or good web site
publications to check out on this sort of topic ?
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| Bradley K. Sherman 2006-02-09, 3:56 am |
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Yes.
--bks
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| Scott Frye 2006-02-09, 7:03 pm |
| As a 40 yo Software Developer that is currently attending graduate
classes at UMASS Lowell, I highly recommend it. :)
Feel free to contact me if you want some pointers about the college and
attending evening classes.
Scott Frye
Scottf3095@aol.com
-------------------------------------------------
Panton in temperantia , comprehendo temperantia.
-unknown
-------------------------------------------------
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| H. S. Lahman 2006-02-09, 7:03 pm |
| Responding to Surfunbear...
> I am concerned with outsourcing and the economy and how that relates
> to the future
> of IT. I have saved some money, but I don't ever really want to fully
> retire. I figure that
> if I have a graduate degree and I'm in my 60's or early 70's, I'll have
> a better chance
> of avoiding age discrimination and qualify for better jobs, or so I'd
> hope.
The MS or even a PhD won't help you against age discrimination at all.
By then they will be Ancient History. Your only talisman against age
discrimination is being competent. [I was at least 20 years older than
anybody else in our shop when I retired, but they offered me a package
to stay. That was because I was one of the better engineers they had,
not because of my MS.]
The value of a graduate degree decreases rather rapidly after graduation
because practical experience is usually much more important. The
reality is that a graduate degree just gives you a running start on the
Salary Curve. If you have been out of school for 9 years, you already
have a lot more going for you in experience than a June Grad would get
with an immediate MS. So you would probably get more money now that the
June Grad with the MS.
OTOH, technologies and whatnot change rapidly in our industry. If you
have the time and money, an MS might be a good way to get caught up or
allow you to switch into a new area of specialization.
[Like you, I went back to get an MS in '70 after working for nearly a
decade. I did it to switch occupations. But I was very focused on
exactly what I wanted out of the deal. So I ended up taking only one
course in the department where I was registered and my MS literally
reads, "Without Specialization" for my major! The Department was Ocean
Engineering because they were picking up the bill in return for setting
up a course and writing a text book (I was a geophysicist at the time).
But I took all my courses in CS, business, and OR. That MS really
didn't do me much good monetarily, but it gave me the skills I needed
for what I really wanted to do.]
*************
There is nothing wrong with me that could
not be cured by a capful of Drano.
H. S. Lahman
hsl@pathfindermda.com
Pathfinder Solutions -- Put MDA to Work
http://www.pathfindermda.com
blog: http://pathfinderpeople.blogs.com/hslahman
(888)OOA-PATH
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| yunismarrero@yahoo.com 2006-02-11, 6:59 pm |
| Maybe you should go even further. Why not to become a professor? I
regret that I quit my PhD in math after 2 years. I got lured into
programming industry by the money. I agree, there is a lot of stress,
office politics, overtime work in our industry. I am 40 now and I am
not sure for how long I can stay. Although I have no problem finding
another job, recruiters keep bombarding me with job offers with 6
figure salaries.
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| surfunbear@yahoo.com 2006-02-13, 6:59 pm |
|
I do have experience, and am a compentent programmer, but a graduate
degree would also help me get better jobs and better experience through
those.
I looked at the masters program, they have classes in neural networks,
computer security, and various
advanced classes as well as industry contacts. I have been well paid
where I work, and have broadened my C++ experience so that I can say I
have so many years of C++ on my resume, but it didn't open me up to
much beyond that that was of interest to me. Part of my problem is that
after I work at a company for about 1.5 years full time I start to feel
like I need a break. When that happened in 1998, I started having
headaches and coming in late. My boss allowed me to work a reduced work
w and I have been doing that up to now, but may be laid off. It's
hard to find jobs where you can work a reduced work w. My plan is
that if I may try to get contract jobs, and take some graduate classes
between contracts if possible. If I find myself in a full time job,
after a year or so I will tell them I want to continue
my education unless they allow me to work less hours. If they won't
allow it, I could quit and attend classes.
I enjoyed my undergraduate years and sometimes miss the academic world.
I did well and got alot of encouragement from college professors which
helped my self esteem. I nearly flunked out of high school, the hall
director told my mother that they where only graduating me because they
didn't want me around the school anymore. When I became interested in
computer programming however, I did exceptionally well and made the
honor roll at Framingham State College. The assembly language class we
had to write a linker in PDP 11 assembly language. No one ever was able
to fully complete the project, they where graded on whatever work they
did finish. The teacher was concerned that students who had completed
the class might help others cheat. Since no one had ever actually
finished and had a fully working linker, he felt safe that the students
ability to cheat was limited.
This linker project had been going on for many years, however I was
able to finish the project and created a fully functioning linker, so
after that he had to come up with a different class project.
In the bussiness world, sometimes it has worked the other way around.
They may tell me they know I am a talented devekoper, but they won't
give me work, won't listen to my advice, or will allow people with
junior experience to harshly critisize my work. If I figure out a way
to automate testing so that I can get alot of my work done in a short
amount
of time using Perl scripts, no one seems impressed. But if someone
comes in on wends and manually hacks their way through some
primitive shell scripts, management seems impressed that they showed
the extra effort to come in on wends and doesn't seem to realize
that some of the real problematic projects that they have would never
have worked out that way if myself or a qualified developer had
developed them. Some of these people are competent buisness analysists,
so I never say they are dumb, in fact I think they are intelligent and
they certainly come off that way, but they have a great weakness in
regards to development.
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| surfunbear@yahoo.com 2006-02-13, 6:59 pm |
| sure maybe, one thing at a time. I also am a serious musician.
Your post perhaps underscores the difficulties some people may have
with the
bussiness world. The stress has helped encourage me to pursue
meditation and spiritual practices.
I probably appreciate my vacations even more than I would otherwise. I
like to take my longboard
and surf Nova Scotia during atlantic hurricane season and camp out up
there.
| |
| Paul E. Black 2006-02-13, 6:59 pm |
| On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 11:39:44 -0800, yunismarrer wrote:
> ... I regret
> that I quit my PhD in math after 2 years. I got lured into programming
> industry by the money. ... I am 40 now and I am not sure for how long
> I can stay. ...
You can still go back. I started my PhD when I was 38. My wife and
kids were accepting (maybe not as far as supportive), particularly
when I promised no more than 5 years, 6 at the outside.
At least it was a constructive mid-life crisis.
-paul-
--
Paul E. Black (p.black@acm.org)
| |
| H. S. Lahman 2006-02-14, 7:01 pm |
| Responding to Surfunbear...
> I do have experience, and am a compentent programmer, but a graduate
> degree would also help me get better jobs and better experience through
> those.
It will certainly provide additional experience, albeit mostly
theoretical. If you've been working for a decade, I am less confident
it will lead to better jobs unless you define 'better' as just being in
a new specialty you picked up in school. IOW, a decade of practical
working experience will carry more weight than any graduate degree.
> I looked at the masters program, they have classes in neural networks,
> computer security, and various
> advanced classes as well as industry contacts. I have been well paid
> where I work, and have broadened my C++ experience so that I can say I
> have so many years of C++ on my resume, but it didn't open me up to
> much beyond that that was of interest to me. Part of my problem is that
> after I work at a company for about 1.5 years full time I start to feel
> like I need a break. When that happened in 1998, I started having
> headaches and coming in late. My boss allowed me to work a reduced work
> w and I have been doing that up to now, but may be laid off. It's
> hard to find jobs where you can work a reduced work w. My plan is
> that if I may try to get contract jobs, and take some graduate classes
> between contracts if possible. If I find myself in a full time job,
> after a year or so I will tell them I want to continue
> my education unless they allow me to work less hours. If they won't
> allow it, I could quit and attend classes.
Given tuition and living costs, you're going to need a pretty hefty
paycheck in that 1.5 years between sabbaticals. B-)
If you feel you are having work related problems that preclude full-time
work, then my advice would be to look into the causes of those problems.
There may be an underlying physiological or psychological cause that
can be addressed directly.
> I enjoyed my undergraduate years and sometimes miss the academic world.
Have you considered teaching? Very flexible work schedule. College is
tough w/o a PhD, but even upscale high schools would be happy with an MS.
> I did well and got alot of encouragement from college professors which
> helped my self esteem. I nearly flunked out of high school, the hall
> director told my mother that they where only graduating me because they
> didn't want me around the school anymore. When I became interested in
> computer programming however, I did exceptionally well and made the
> honor roll at Framingham State College. The assembly language class we
> had to write a linker in PDP 11 assembly language. No one ever was able
> to fully complete the project, they where graded on whatever work they
> did finish. The teacher was concerned that students who had completed
> the class might help others cheat. Since no one had ever actually
> finished and had a fully working linker, he felt safe that the students
> ability to cheat was limited.
Coincidence: I lived less than a mile from FSC for several years. I
also have not-so-fond memories of debugging PDP11 Assembly without any
source code.
> This linker project had been going on for many years, however I was
> able to finish the project and created a fully functioning linker, so
> after that he had to come up with a different class project.
> In the bussiness world, sometimes it has worked the other way around.
> They may tell me they know I am a talented devekoper, but they won't
> give me work, won't listen to my advice, or will allow people with
> junior experience to harshly critisize my work. If I figure out a way
> to automate testing so that I can get alot of my work done in a short
> amount
> of time using Perl scripts, no one seems impressed. But if someone
> comes in on wends and manually hacks their way through some
> primitive shell scripts, management seems impressed that they showed
> the extra effort to come in on wends and doesn't seem to realize
> that some of the real problematic projects that they have would never
> have worked out that way if myself or a qualified developer had
> developed them. Some of these people are competent buisness analysists,
> so I never say they are dumb, in fact I think they are intelligent and
> they certainly come off that way, but they have a great weakness in
> regards to development.
Every shop has a specific culture that pretty much drives what they do,
how developers are recognized, and what the working environment is like.
An important aspect of selecting a job is determining whether one will
fit into the culture. IMO, that is probably more important than what
sort of software the shop actually does.
For example, Intel is legendary for a highly confrontational environment
-- so much so that the HR people make a point of it in the pre-interview
orientation. Many people would be unhappy in such an environment
regardless of how interesting the work was. (One wag describe Intel as
a shop with a lot of unhappy people who were very well compensated for
their unhappiness.)
Also, shops that are process-oriented invariably institutionalize peer
reviews, so one needs to be somewhat thick-skinned about criticism in
such shops. (The process-oriented shops that know what they are doing
take care to provide a culture where such reviews are depersonalized.)
*************
There is nothing wrong with me that could
not be cured by a capful of Drano.
H. S. Lahman
hsl@pathfindermda.com
Pathfinder Solutions -- Put MDA to Work
http://www.pathfindermda.com
blog: http://pathfinderpeople.blogs.com/hslahman
(888)OOA-PATH
| |
| JXStern 2006-02-14, 9:56 pm |
| On 13 Feb 2006 08:20:41 -0800, surfunbear@yahoo.com wrote:
>junior experience to harshly critisize my work. If I figure out a way
>to automate testing so that I can get alot of my work done in a short
>amount
>of time using Perl scripts, no one seems impressed. But if someone
>comes in on wends and manually hacks their way through some
>primitive shell scripts, management seems impressed that they showed
>the extra effort to come in on wends and doesn't seem to realize
>that some of the real problematic projects that they have would never
>have worked out that way if myself or a qualified developer had
>developed them.
This scenario has been well-covered by Scott Adams in Dilbert strips.
And lordy, haven't I seen it in action myself.
What was the question?
J.
| |
| surfunbear@yahoo.com 2006-02-15, 9:58 pm |
|
H. S. Lahman wrote:
> Responding to Surfunbear...
>
>
> It will certainly provide additional experience, albeit mostly
> theoretical. If you've been working for a decade, I am less confident
> it will lead to better jobs unless you define 'better' as just being in
> a new specialty you picked up in school. IOW, a decade of practical
> working experience will carry more weight than any graduate degree.
>
What has happened to me is that I stayed at the same company for 9
years
because they let me work a reduced work w. I'm not sure how much
experience I got from that, but some people might claim otherwise in
regards
to how much a degree helps. Maybe there are some studies on the topic.
If I was to get into neural networks, pattern recognition, security
maybe a degree would help me, especially since I don't agressively
pursue full time or overtime job situations.
I could try to learn some things on my own, some topics I can be self
motivated, but
taking classes and getting a degree may have other benifits.
>
> Given tuition and living costs, you're going to need a pretty hefty
> paycheck in that 1.5 years between sabbaticals. B-)
>
I live in a 475 square foot condo and am not married and have no kids.
I do
spend a fair amount of money going camping and so on. It wouldn't
surprise me if I took 4 years to get a degree or even never finished.
> If you feel you are having work related problems that preclude full-time
> work, then my advice would be to look into the causes of those problems.
> There may be an underlying physiological or psychological cause that
> can be addressed directly.
>
That's philosophical in nature. Some could claim the problem is with
society,
a doctor might just give you pills to take. Some people deal with
stress problems by drinking, cheating on their wives, some are
workaholics. You have to earn a living,
but someday you'll be dead anyway. On the other hand I look very young
for my age and have spent alot of time reading, surfing, and
snowboarding.
I sleep better often in my camper out in the woods someplace.
There are stories about people who cured their ills by living in the
desert with nomads
for 7 years. This one comes to mind:
http://www.sddt.com/Commentary/arti...ode=20021120tbg
>
> Have you considered teaching? Very flexible work schedule. College is
> tough w/o a PhD, but even upscale high schools would be happy with an MS.
>
Perhaps, much too early to think about that.
>
> Coincidence: I lived less than a mile from FSC for several years. I
> also have not-so-fond memories of debugging PDP11 Assembly without any
> source code.
>
You went to FSC ?
| |
| H. S. Lahman 2006-02-17, 6:58 pm |
| Responding to Surfunbear...
>
>
> What has happened to me is that I stayed at the same company for 9
> years
> because they let me work a reduced work w. I'm not sure how much
> experience I got from that, but some people might claim otherwise in
> regards
> to how much a degree helps. Maybe there are some studies on the topic.
If you developed software for nine years, you gained valuable practical
experience even if all you did was generate reports or create web pages.
> If I was to get into neural networks, pattern recognition, security
> maybe a degree would help me, especially since I don't agressively
> pursue full time or overtime job situations.
> I could try to learn some things on my own, some topics I can be self
> motivated, but
> taking classes and getting a degree may have other benifits.
If you want to get into cutting edge technology like neural networks or
pattern recognition, then going back to school would probably be the
best way because of the high theoretical content.
>
>
> That's philosophical in nature. Some could claim the problem is with
> society,
> a doctor might just give you pills to take. Some people deal with
> stress problems by drinking, cheating on their wives, some are
> workaholics. You have to earn a living,
> but someday you'll be dead anyway. On the other hand I look very young
> for my age and have spent alot of time reading, surfing, and
> snowboarding.
OTOH, software development is one of the few areas where one can switch
problem domains to solve very different problems. So if one finds a
problem space that is inherently interesting and a working environment
that suits one's tastes, then there really shouldn't be work-related
problems that prevent full time effort. (Software is one of the few
arenas where people work extra hours simply because they like it.)
Those work-related problems that prevent you from working full time are
what I was aiming at. IOW, the fact that you seem to feel the problems
limiting you work time are work-related suggests that is unusual and
might need to be addressed specifically.
For example, some people who don't exhibit other symptoms of epilepsy
are often bothered by fluorescent lighting to the point of headaches,
etc. I am just suggesting you might want to talk to your PCP about it
and perhaps get a referral to a specialist to find out what's wrong.
>
>
> You went to FSC ?
No, MIT. I just lived in Framingham.
*************
There is nothing wrong with me that could
not be cured by a capful of Drano.
H. S. Lahman
hsl@pathfindermda.com
Pathfinder Solutions -- Put MDA to Work
http://www.pathfindermda.com
blog: http://pathfinderpeople.blogs.com/hslahman
(888)OOA-PATH
| |
|
|
> Will I possibly become over qualified ? Any thoughts or good web site
> publications to check out on this sort of topic ?
That depends on what you kind of jobs you are looking for. I went back
for my master after years in development. I got tired of the "software
release cycle grindmill" and wanted to go into research. I am finishing
my Masters after three years (part time) and then two full time years.
Recently I was looking for work and noticed there are two types of work
out there: coding and research. The coding jobs were oblivious to my
advanced degree and only care if I know "stupid computer tricks",
something a high school student can do with some programming classes.
The research jobs ignored me because they want people from top
universities and my school was just an old fashioned State college. In
fact, if you go to Hotjobs.com, Yahoo specifically said they only want
"top students from top universities". I was quite annoyed by their
arrogance as they were posting it at Hotjobs.com. If they wanted "top
students from top U", they can just go to those Universities recruiting
dept. Why toy with the rest of the job sers. It seemed pompous to me.
Grad school is very hard work, both physically and mentally. You should
be very clear in what you want to get out of it before going in. You are
also losing money both ways: tuition and income. If you can find a
school that at least provide some scholarship or stipends, at least
you're not bleeding money. I know about that, I got a big old debt on my
head now and I haven't figure out how to pay for it.
Good luck
ashia
| |
|
| ashia wrote:
> The research jobs ignored me because they want people from top
> universities and my school was just an old fashioned State college. In
> fact, if you go to Hotjobs.com, Yahoo specifically said they only want
> "top students from top universities".
Great. I'm smart enough to work at a research institute, but I'm not smart
enough to find smart hires, so I want someone else to filter them for me.
--
Phlip
[url]http://www.greencheese.org/ZLand[/url] <-- NOT a blog!!!
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