Re: PHP on .NET DLR

K T Ligesh wrote:
>  Hi folks,
>
>  I was looking at the buzz generated by ironRuby, and seriously wondering at the l
ack of PHP in the DLR. It is really strange too especially when you consider that th
e php-compiler.net phalanager project had a full working version much before the Rub
yCL
R, in spite of which, MS seems to have decided to adopt Ruby rather than PHP.  The reasons 
stated by MS is that the IronRuby was more requested and ruby seems to be the more popular 
language in the community.
>
>  So I am wondering why there isn't any effort in the PHP community to get PHP into
 the DLR. If nothing, DLR is yet another platform, and for a php programmer it gives
 one more playground to showcase his skillset. Anyway, my question is whether there 
wou
ld be any community effort to get MS adopt PHP into CLR too. I am sure there is a genuine c
ustomer requirement, and enterprises have made quite a bit of investment in PHP and they wo
uld all love to be able to take it to the .NET platform.
>
>  Anyway to summarize: Does anyone have any opinion on why MS chose Ruby instead PH
P, even though PHP has a larger user base, and also larger enterprise usage? I don't
 think the beauty of the language was the key, since MS is the purveyor of VB, one o
f t
he ugliest languages around. The reason is something more pragmatic, and I am really curiou
s.
>
>  Also, I would like to know if we can start some kind of petition to let M
S know of the number of people who would like to have PHP on .NET.
>
>  Thanks for your time.
>

This is interesting idea but lets split it

What PHP community get
1) Ability to use MS .NET tools together with PHP
2) It can combine application PHP with C# one
3) Nice IDE
4) ...

What PHP community loose
1) Money, as PHP Zend Platform/Studio can suffer
2) ...

What will Microsoft get
1) More customers for their visual studio
2) Nicely tailored script language, with huge user base

What will Microsoft loose
1) Nothing

--
Bojan Tesanovic
http://www.classicio.com/
http://www.real-estates-sale.com/

On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 08:27:38AM +0200, Bojan Tesanovic wrote:
>
> This is interesting idea but lets split it
>
> What PHP community get
> 1) Ability to use MS .NET tools together with PHP
> 2) It can combine application PHP with C# one
> 3) Nice IDE
> 4) ...

1000).. Write a threaded php application. :-)

>
> What PHP community loose
> 1) Money, as PHP Zend Platform/Studio can suffer
> 2) ...
>

This won't be entirely the case. Currently with silverlight, .NET would run 
as a pure client-server app, with the silverlight client communicating with 
the backend PHP app. Actually, PHP on .NET would be redundant, and my practi
cal experience is that for
most big projects, converting their large php app to .NET wouldn't be a safe
 bet. But if you don't have PHP on silverlight, the enterprise might be forc
ed to convert their existing PHP applications to ruby or some other language
, since otherwise you have
to maintain two separate languages for client and server.

The core idea that I am trying implement is a php silverlight client on Wind
ows communicating with a pure php application on linux. This is currently no
t possible with PHP, and I am really thinking of porting my entire app to ru
by, so that I can have a c
onsistency across platforms.

At least the industry--even MS haters it appears--thinks silverlight would b
e the next big thing to happen to the Web. Silverlight was what I thought MS
 would even initially do with .NET, but as always it took MS 7 years to get 
it right.

Thanks.

On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 05:46:32PM +0530, K T Ligesh wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 08:27:38AM +0200, Bojan Tesanovic wrote: 

Zend's success firstly and primarily is intimately tied to the success of PH
P. So what do they gain if they get a few customers who are already stuck wi
th PHP, but PHP lose out as the premier web language? I think we should have
 learned from Caldera/Redh
at experience that the first thing you need is mind share. Monitization can 
and should only come later. Caldera disaster stemmed from their restrictive 
policies, and their attempt to to make immediate revenue rather than gain mi
ndshare.

Anyway, I think ruby with silverlight is a crisis for PHP, and I am very kee
nly observing how PHP community is going to react to this. I earnestly reque
st everyone to help get PHP in the DLR. This isn't an impractical request ei
ther, since as I had alrea
dy said, phalanger is a complete and proper implementation. All that's neede
d is porting it to DLR. In fact, phalanger in the current state is better th
an the pre-alpha IronRuby.


Thanks.

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